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Against modern warships knocking out radars, cutting wave guides and setting fires in the superstructure, etc is a pretty effective way of damaging their combat capability- anti-ship missiles are pretty bad at sinking ships, but great at making them combat ineffective. Standard is, after all, a 3,000+ lb rocket-propelled Mach 3.5 lawn dart with a 140lb blast-frag warhead on then end of it. It's going to do some damage to whatever it hits.
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Apr 29, 2016 07:21
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I watched Valkyrie since I always had some mild interest in it and it's about to go off amazon prime so watch it while you still have mild interest; it's decent! The scene where Col. Stauffenberg's Berlin residence is being bombed by the allies had me curious about something: did wealthy Germans in metro areas move to the countryside during the worst years of the bombing campaigns? How about wealthy/prominent families of Nazis or would that have been a stigma among your colleagues and the party? I know Valkyrie takes some, uh, loose liberties but Stauffenberg was from the traditional German upper crust and a colonel so I assume this uncomfortable situation came up occasionally? Also, this isn't really milhist (or maybe it is!) but I don't really know a better history thread for it. My hockey-obsessed friend asked me why the hockey-obsessed European countries seem so random and I couldn't really give him a good answer. Slovakia routinely over represents the Czech Republic and Poland in hockey things despite vast population differences. Thought maybe it was some Soviet related thing but then there's Scandinavia (obviously the sport makes more sense for their climate) and the inconsistency of hockey's popularity even among closer satellites and I just don't know enough about hockey in Eastern Europe so maybe you guys do! The best I could offer up to him was that sports' popularity often depends on culture and the whims of history: Japan's early exposure to baseball when U Chicago visited early in the 20th and then the mixed metaphor knockout punch of occupation, for instance.
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Apr 29, 2016 08:05
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Pontius Pilate posted:I watched Valkyrie since I always had some mild interest in it and it's about to go off amazon prime so watch it while you still have mild interest; it's decent! The scene where Col. Stauffenberg's Berlin residence is being bombed by the allies had me curious about something: did wealthy Germans in metro areas move to the countryside during the worst years of the bombing campaigns? How about wealthy/prominent families of Nazis or would that have been a stigma among your colleagues and the party? I know Valkyrie takes some, uh, loose liberties but Stauffenberg was from the traditional German upper crust and a colonel so I assume this uncomfortable situation came up occasionally? A lot of the German officers (including von Stauffenberg) were Prussian nobility of some kind, and so would have houses or estates out East. This was a rather big deal when things started turning south on the Eastern front, since it was the army officers whose homes were going to be on the front line when the Soviets came marching through East Prussia.
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Apr 29, 2016 11:39
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Why was this a big deal? If the USSR would be coming through Prussia, Germany's hosed anyway, doesn't matter where your estates are.
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Apr 29, 2016 16:25
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House Louse posted:Why was this a big deal? If the USSR would be coming through Prussia, Germany's hosed anyway, doesn't matter where your estates are. It was a bigger concern to the junkers in 1914 with Russians marching towards East Prussia at the start of WW1 than in 1944/45 when the poo poo had already hit the fan in WW2.
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Apr 29, 2016 16:27
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House Louse posted:Why was this a big deal? If the USSR would be coming through Prussia, Germany's hosed anyway, doesn't matter where your estates are. Bear in mind Germany was a lot bigger back then - historical Prussia-the-region was actually mostly in modern Poland. Having the Soviet Union in it isn't the same as 'the Reds are right outside Berlin' or anything. (though, yes, those junker estates were thus presumably in interwar Poland in any case...I wonder if they seized any of them back in 1939). Edit: actually, no. West Prussia was given to Poland at Versailles but East Prussia remained German, just kinda surrounded by Poland. The same weird setup as Kaliningrad today. feedmegin fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Apr 29, 2016 |
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Apr 29, 2016 16:32
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Grand Prize Winner posted:I am very confused right now. What is the alternative to a VLS for a submarine? I thought those systems were the default. I do not know poo poo about subs though. Please tell us more!  The missiles were stored in those bulges on the right side. They had to be dragged out and made ready to launch with the help of the crew while surfaced.
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Apr 29, 2016 16:35
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House Louse posted:Why was this a big deal? If the USSR would be coming through Prussia, Germany's hosed anyway, doesn't matter where your estates are. I guess various people still believed that there could be a negotiated settlement, even up to the very late stages of the war.
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Apr 29, 2016 16:52
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chitoryu12 posted:
Moreover, the missile had to be guided all the way to the target, which either required a mothership aircraft in the area, or the launching submarine would need to stay at or above periscope depth until impact. In response to the question you were answering, submarines can mostly fire the same weapons that they carry in their VLS tubes via their normal torpedo tubes, but as an example, all US SSNs other than the three Seawolf boats all have just four torpedo tubes, which drastically limits the type of cruise missile strike you can accomplish. With a VLS-equipped 688 as an example, you now have sixteen tubes available for an essentially simultaneous launch. MrYenko fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Apr 29, 2016 |
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Apr 29, 2016 17:14
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feedmegin posted:Bear in mind Germany was a lot bigger back then - historical Prussia-the-region was actually mostly in modern Poland. Having the Soviet Union in it isn't the same as 'the Reds are right outside Berlin' or anything. Keep in mind that the word Prussia can refer to several different areas: East Prussia, aka ducal Prussia, now Kaliningrad was the lands of the Teutonic Order which the Elector of Brandenburg inherited 500-ish years ago. After inheriting the land, he assumed the title of King in Prussia, which led to the entirety of the country being known as Brandenburg-Prussia and eventually just Prussia West Prussia, aka royal Prussia, now part of Poland was land obtained by Brandenburg-Prussia in the first partition of Poland. After German unification, Prussia (meaning the entirety of Brandenburg-Prussia) remained a mostly autonomous territory, and everyone from there could be referred to as Prussian. So it's very important to be clear on which sense you're using, especially because a Westphalian from the western portion of Germany might be called a Prussian due to living in the Kingdom of Prussia before unification despite never having traveled east of Berlin.
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Apr 29, 2016 17:30
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blackmongoose posted:Keep in mind that the word Prussia can refer to several different areas: During the Weimar Government the Prussian state government was basically the last SPD bastion to go when Germany became much more authoritarian in 1930. When Papen overthrew the Prussian government it was probably the last chance for a non-authoritarian Germany going into the 30s.
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Apr 29, 2016 17:35
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MrYenko posted:IIRC, All models of the Standard missile have the ability to be used as SSMs. SM-2's surface to surface capability is pretty poor across all variants, particularly against navalized targets. SM-6 though is absolutely nasty versus surface targets...I was really surprised when they made that capability public a few weeks ago. The range and EMS capabilities on it are unbelievable, so much so I kind of suspect it was designed first as a S2S system.
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Apr 29, 2016 17:42
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bewbies posted:SM-2's surface to surface capability is pretty poor across all variants, particularly against navalized targets. SM-6 though is absolutely nasty versus surface targets...I was really surprised when they made that capability public a few weeks ago. The range and EMS capabilities on it are unbelievable, so much so I kind of suspect it was designed first as a S2S system. Didn't a Navy ship screw up and kill a Turkish destroyer with SM-2 some years back? FakeEdit: Oh, that was Sea Sparrow.
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Apr 29, 2016 17:53
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blackmongoose posted:Keep in mind that the word Prussia can refer to several different areas: The Hohenzollerns didn't get ducal Prussia until 1657
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Apr 29, 2016 18:50
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Has the US Navy de-emphasized anti-ship missiles in recent years? If so, what is their thinking? Someone was talking about this in a CMANO stream or something.
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Apr 29, 2016 19:12
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pthighs posted:Has the US Navy de-emphasized anti-ship missiles in recent years? If so, what is their thinking? I don't think you can really de-emphasize something you never had a real emphasis on in the first place. What did we have? Harpoon, which is a subsonic seaskimmer and has been around for decades, and TASM, which pretty much was a failure as a working anti-ship missile and was withdrawn from service decades ago. We never bothered to develop the big supersonic ship-killers like the Soviets did, because we have carriers and subs. LRASM's under development as a Harpoon replacement, and there's the aforementioned SM-6 with a credible anti-ship role.
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Apr 29, 2016 20:01
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chitoryu12 posted:
Early missile submarines prior to introduction of VLS shared also one characteristic - they were all terminally ugly.  (Soviet Whiskey Long Bin) Phanatic posted:Didn't a Navy ship screw up and kill a Turkish destroyer with SM-2 some years back? Cruiser Wainwright sunk an Iranian corvette with a SM2 salvo in Praying Mantis in the eighties. Gervasius fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Apr 29, 2016 |
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Apr 29, 2016 20:18
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Cyrano4747 posted:The Hohenzollerns didn't get ducal Prussia until 1657 The Hohenzollerns acquired Ducal Prussia after the secularization of the Teutonic Order's Prussian lands in 1525 (Albert having been ruling it as Grandmaster since 1510). It was acquired by the Brandenburg Hohenzollerns in 1618, but it remained a Polish fief. Sovereign control was passed to the Hohenzollerns in 1657. PittTheElder fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Apr 29, 2016 |
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Apr 29, 2016 20:52
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Can someone well versed in post American Civil War Indian battles explain how the Wounded Knee massacre produced twenty medals of honor? I was looking it up and I find that fact shocking. The whole of the battle for Iwo Jima only produced twenty-seven medals of honor.
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Apr 29, 2016 21:33
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Trast posted:Can someone well versed in post American Civil War Indian battles explain how the Wounded Knee massacre produced twenty medals of honor? I was looking it up and I find that fact shocking. The whole of the battle for Iwo Jima only produced twenty-seven medals of honor. because the criteria changed significantly in the interim.
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Apr 29, 2016 21:35
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Trast posted:Can someone well versed in post American Civil War Indian battles explain how the Wounded Knee massacre produced twenty medals of honor? I was looking it up and I find that fact shocking. The whole of the battle for Iwo Jima only produced twenty-seven medals of honor. The Medal of Honor was pretty much the only medal that could be awarded to U.S. military personnel during the 19th century, so it's what everybody got for anything someone decided was worthy of a medal. Also racism.
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Apr 29, 2016 21:35
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MassivelyBuckNegro posted:because the criteria changed significantly in the interim. ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:The Medal of Honor was pretty much the only medal that could be awarded to U.S. military personnel during the 19th century, so it's what everybody got for anything someone decided was worthy of a medal. I suppose that makes more sense. ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:Also racism. And that makes a lot of sense.
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Apr 29, 2016 21:38
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Phanatic posted:TASM 
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Apr 29, 2016 22:08
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Phanatic posted:We never bothered to develop the big supersonic ship-killers like the Soviets did, because we have carriers and subs. I think you'll find that carriers are now obselete thanks to Chinese ballistic missiles against which there is no defence. I know this because the War Nerd said so  On a serious note, isn't the main US carrier bourne anti-shipping armament also Harpoons? I can't imagine you are sending in Super Bugs to drop GBU-12s on top of hostile warships.
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Apr 29, 2016 23:09
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Trast posted:Can someone well versed in post American Civil War Indian battles explain how the Wounded Knee massacre produced twenty medals of honor? I was looking it up and I find that fact shocking. The whole of the battle for Iwo Jima only produced twenty-seven medals of honor. The Medal of Honor didn't start out as an ultra-exclusive award. It was pretty much the opposite, in fact - there were 1,500 given during the Civil War. In one case, there was a regiment where every man who reenlisted got one. I'm not sure why the criteria got changed. Usually awards go the other way, starting exclusive and getting less and less so. IIRC, the Iron Cross went that way, very dramatically.
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Apr 30, 2016 01:33
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Because the Medal of Honor used to be the only award there was, besides the Purple Heart.
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Apr 30, 2016 01:39
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MikeCrotch posted:
Praying Mantis had A-6s dropping cluster bombs and GBUs and firing Harpoons at Iranian ships. For a seriously defended target I'd expect the munition of choice to be a Mk-48.
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Apr 30, 2016 01:55
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100 Years Ago It's the 23rd of April. Marching 250 miles through Tanzania in the rainy season is a bad idea, you say? Colour me
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Apr 30, 2016 02:28
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chitoryu12 posted:
If that's the missile I'm thinking of, it's also the same type of missile that the USS Barbero used to deliver mail:  (Barbero even had its own its own Post Office too).
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Apr 30, 2016 05:51
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Danann posted:If that's the missile I'm thinking of, it's also the same type of missile that the USS Barbero used to deliver mail: You're correct, the Barbero and Greyback-class used Regulus missiles. They tried creating a Regulus II that used inertial guidance instead of needing constant radio guidance to the target, but they cost $1 million each (about $8.2 million each in modern money) and vertical launch made them obsolete so only one was ever test fired before the project got canned. I think they were also so much larger than the original Regulus that the Greyback-class could only carry two instead of four.
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Apr 30, 2016 06:25
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Danann posted:If that's the missile I'm thinking of, it's also the same type of missile that the USS Barbero used to deliver mail: They used a missile to deliver mail? What? Why?
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Apr 30, 2016 06:46
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Only way to capture the Death Note
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Apr 30, 2016 07:07
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Thanqol posted:They used a missile to deliver mail? What? Why? Why not?
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Apr 30, 2016 07:07
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StashAugustine posted:Why not? The US mail was involved in a lot of weird technological forays in the 20th century. Some of the earliest commercial flights in the US were single engine biplanes carrying mail bags.
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Apr 30, 2016 08:40
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Did US mail pick up some ex-nazi postal officials or something? They dipped into weird projects as well.wiki wiki wild wild pedia posted:The RPM supported independent research, such as nuclear physics, high-frequency technology, isotope separation, electron microscopy, and communications technology at the private research laboratory Forschungslaboratoriums für Elektronenphysik of Manfred von Ardenne, in Berlin-Lichterfelde. In 1940, the RPM began construction of a cyclotron for von Ardenne; it was completed in 1945.[4][5]
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Apr 30, 2016 09:24
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Thanqol posted:They used a missile to deliver mail? What? Why? It was like the Amazon delivery drones of the time, but actually cool.
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Apr 30, 2016 09:30
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It makes sense in a kind of way. The US mail could have evolved into something like the german Bundespost, which governed not just mail but also telephone connections and other stuff. It seems like in the early 20th century they were definitely trying to be.
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Apr 30, 2016 09:30
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Phanatic posted:For a seriously defended target I'd expect the munition of choice to be a Mk-48. This. I'm fairly sure carriers nowadays are more for projecting power inland when the Marines haven't taken an airfield for the USAF to use. A carrier group's antiship weapon is a 688 boat.
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Apr 30, 2016 09:47
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Bad Angus! Bad!
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I'd enjoy an alternate America where all packages and letters are delivered by missile somewhere into people's front lawn. Man at a desk in a suburban home office: "Yes, I love missile mail, if I just pay $8.99 more at checkout all my packages are delivered..." *BANG*, he flinches, covers his head, collects himself, dust falls from the ceiling, "Only minutes after I place an order!" Teriyaki Hairpiece fucked around with this message at 10:45 on Apr 30, 2016 |
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Apr 30, 2016 10:40
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Also you can only cancel your order up until some arbitrary point in the midcourse phase
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Apr 30, 2016 10:43
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