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BravestOfTheLamps posted:"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." That's a quote that refers to how following Jesus will bring division, that it will separate people who follow him ideologically and faithfully against those that do not. Maybe Justice League will have the superhumans (and Batman) against the world. But I think it's more likely to have its only schism being against Darkseid and his literal army of demons. quote:So you're saying the superheroes are going to focus on thwarting supernatural threats so that normal humans can be left to handle being fundamentally good? I think there's a disconnect when your savior metaphor only inspires changes that matter in other "saviors". Nodosaur fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Apr 30, 2016 |
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Apr 30, 2016 21:36
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TFRazorsaw posted:That's a quote that refers to how following Jesus will bring division, that it will separate people who follow him ideologically and faithfully against those that do not. This was the plot of Batman v Superman. HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Nevermind that the actual Christ metaphor has more in common with say, Last Temptation than striking crucifix poses. All of the scenes that depict him as a Christ figure or demigod are deeply uncomfortable. You shouldn't worship Superman, that'd be just silly. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Apr 30, 2016 |
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Apr 30, 2016 21:37
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As obvious as this stuff is, somehow it's always skipped over that Clark is aware of how he's viewed and doesn't yet know how to play the part, instead of simply being Born Good.
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Apr 30, 2016 21:42
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Just popping in to say that Joss Whedon's two Avengers movies made nearly 3bn together, and we should be kissing his feet as the clear and obvious cinematic genius that he is.
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Apr 30, 2016 21:45
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Gorn Myson posted:Just popping in to say that Joss Whedon's two Avengers movies made nearly 3bn together, and we should be kissing his feet as the clear and obvious cinematic genius that he is. By all means, point out the flaws in the math, about how the success of BvS properly relates to other movies. I can learn from my mistakes, and I am willing to admit that I didn't have a proper understanding of just what this movie achieved in terms of raw numbers. As I've stated before, I have trouble distinguishing real, applicable events in terms that aren't absolutely good, or absolute bad. But again - this was brought up in regards to whether or not there's validity in regards to whether or not any success or lack of success or WHATEVER is affecting the making of MORE of these movies behind the scenes. Marvel is Marvel; they're competing with Warner Bros. financially, and are relevant to the issue of box office take only in terms of how they influence the market these stories enter into. This discussion is repeatedly trying to mix the subjective quality of the movie with discussion about the results and how The Sausage is Made, and thus, things are getting muddled. I won't pretend I haven't added to that confusion either, by trying to have two conversations at once. I'm writing this in an attempt to course correct. The original point wasn't which superhero movie franchise is factually better. It isn't about who's a bigger genius, or who is going to win. Did BvS succeed in its financial goals, and how does that relate to the rumors and questions of whether or not DC is concerned? How will this affect their superhero movie franchise going forward? That's what I'm trying to make sense of.
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Apr 30, 2016 21:55
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TFRazorsaw posted:Did BvS succeed in its financial goals, and how does that relate to the rumors and questions of whether or not DC is concerned? How will this affect their superhero movie franchise going forward? That's what I'm trying to make sense of. I don't know.
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Apr 30, 2016 21:57
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TFRazorsaw posted:How will this affect their superhero movie franchise going forward? Well Snyder's still making Justice League, so expect another good movie that you think is bad because it's not garishly cartoonish enough.
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Apr 30, 2016 22:08
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TFRazorsaw posted:That's what I'm trying to make sense of. And failing to make sense of.
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Apr 30, 2016 22:10
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Wheeee posted:Well Snyder's still making Justice League, so expect another good movie that you think is bad because it's not garishly cartoonish enough. I already know that's not changing. But considering it started filming in a very narrow time frame after BvS premiered that doesn't mean his position isn't potentially contentious. I'm gonna ignore that last part out of an attempt at self control and continue to avoid the "two conversations at once" thing.
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Apr 30, 2016 22:15
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Well maybe next time they won't make Snyder cut half an hour out of the movie, disrupting the flow and clarity of events.
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Apr 30, 2016 22:23
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:As obvious as this stuff is, somehow it's always skipped over that Clark is aware of how he's viewed and doesn't yet know how to play the part, instead of simply being Born Good. People put too much emphasis on the fact that he's an alien. Largely I think his alien heritage is irrelevant. The basic story wouldn't change if he was human with powers. He was raised 100% on Earth. If Bruce Wayne is a mask that Batman wears, Superman is a mask that Clark Kent wears. Despite its faults, Smallville does a great job of portraying this.
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Apr 30, 2016 22:24
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Wheeee posted:Well maybe next time they won't make Snyder cut half an hour out of the movie, disrupting the flow and clarity of events. Just gonna save this quote for July 16ths Ultimate Cut release
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Apr 30, 2016 22:32
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TFRazorsaw posted:By all means, point out the flaws in the math, about how the success of BvS properly relates to other movies. I can learn from my mistakes, and I am willing to admit that I didn't have a proper understanding of just what this movie achieved in terms of raw numbers. As I've stated before, I have trouble distinguishing real, applicable events in terms that aren't absolutely good, or absolute bad.
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Apr 30, 2016 22:32
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Wheeee posted:Well maybe next time they won't make Snyder cut half an hour out of the movie, disrupting the flow and clarity of events. It's still a failing of a director as much as the studio if the director can't deliver a compelling product within the time constraints that are obviously going to be imposed on a Hollywood blockbuster in today's world. It's not like Snyder didn't know this would happen. I mean as much of a mess as Age of Ultron was, at least Whedon owns it. I'm sure the director's cut of BvS will be better, perhaps much better, but that doesn't make it less of a cheat in my mind.
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Apr 30, 2016 22:36
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Ridley Scott is a failed director cause Kingdom of Heaven wasn't very good until the directors cut. What a old bro hack shithead.
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Apr 30, 2016 22:39
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Wheeee posted:Well Snyder's still making Justice League, so expect another good movie that you think is bad because it's not garishly cartoonish enough. But enough about Civil War...
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Apr 30, 2016 22:44
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Less than a week until Civil War! I'm so psyched. Anyone else psyched?
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Apr 30, 2016 22:47
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I feel like there is a reference to the discussion in this thread in Civil War. Cap and Iron Man are Batman and Superman (both can be either based on how you look at it), Zemo is Warner Bros who set them up to fight, and there's a guy at the end who represents comic book fans. He asks Zemo how does it feel like to have his plan (of making Cap and Iron Man fight each other) fail and Zemo answers "did I?"
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Apr 30, 2016 22:47
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Gorn Myson posted:Just popping in to say that Joss Whedon's two Avengers movies made nearly 3bn together, and we should be kissing his feet as the clear and obvious cinematic genius that he is. They also inspired pages and pages of arguments in this thread, so according to BravestOfTheLamps' "people argue about it = quality" metric, the Avengers films are also two of the greatest films of all time. Also, we argued about how much money BvS made at length so therefore it use have been a worthwhile argument.
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Apr 30, 2016 22:49
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Marky Marx posted:Less than a week until Civil War! I'm so psyched. Anyone else psyched? Until I saw clips of it, yeah. Now in thinking it looks just okay.
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Apr 30, 2016 22:53
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:People put too much emphasis on the fact that he's an alien. Largely I think his alien heritage is irrelevant. The basic story wouldn't change if he was human with powers. He was raised 100% on Earth. If Bruce Wayne is a mask that Batman wears, Superman is a mask that Clark Kent wears. Despite its faults, Smallville does a great job of portraying this. It's part of what's made the interplay between Batman and Superman so interesting to me. On the one hand, you've got a godlike alien whose saving grace is his humanity. On the other hand, you've got a human who shuns his humanity as weakness. That's why I have no problem with Superman killing. He's human enough to make that judgement, whereas Batman's dysfunction makes him terrified that maybe he can't. Marky Marx posted:Less than a week until Civil War! I'm so psyched. Anyone else psyched? My psych level is medium. I was more psyched for Deadpool, but I'm looking forward to this, especially because of the good word of mouth I'm hearing about it. Phylodox fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Apr 30, 2016 |
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Apr 30, 2016 22:57
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Vintersorg posted:Ridley Scott is a failed director cause Kingdom of Heaven wasn't very good until the directors cut. Again, saying that a director or film failed to do something is not the same thing as calling it a failure.
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Apr 30, 2016 22:58
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Comrade Fakename posted:They also inspired pages and pages of arguments in this thread, so according to BravestOfTheLamps' "people argue about it = quality" metric, the Avengers films are also two of the greatest films of all time.
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Apr 30, 2016 23:10
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Comrade Fakename posted:They also inspired pages and pages of arguments in this thread, so according to BravestOfTheLamps' "people argue about it = quality" metric, the Avengers films are also two of the greatest films of all time. No, they inspired page on page of people refusing to understand basic rules of cinematography.
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Apr 30, 2016 23:28
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Vintersorg posted:Ridley Scott is a failed director cause Kingdom of Heaven wasn't very good until the directors cut. I think Kingdom of Heaven is the exception that proves the rule. It can't be the trump card that wins every argument against directors cuts
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Apr 30, 2016 23:36
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:I think Kingdom of Heaven is the exception that proves the rule. It can't be the trump card that wins every argument against directors cuts Blade Runner, Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid, Touch of Evil, The Big Red One, Brazil, Mimic... Snowman_McK fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Apr 30, 2016 |
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Apr 30, 2016 23:39
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Wasn't Daredevil's director's cut one that made the movie go from "bad" to "kinda okay"? Edit: I haven't seen DD's director cut, but read in the forums that the people who saw it had that opinion. I did see the director's cut of Apocalypse Now, and I believe it's a better version.
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Apr 30, 2016 23:43
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Watchmen DC made it go from Pretty Good to Pretty Awesome, so there's that if you want an example that's actually from the same director working for the same company making a superhero comic book movie.
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Apr 30, 2016 23:51
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Until I saw clips of it, yeah. Now in thinking it looks just okay. That may actually be a good thing for your ultimate perception of the movie. I went into Batman v Superman expecting it to be a shitshow due to all the bad press it was getting; in fact, I only saw it at the cinema due to a combination of having recently watched (And enjoyed) Man of Steel for the first time, and just being bored that evening. Turned out that it was a pretty good movie despite its flaws and I came away satisfied. I'll probably go see Civil War and I'll probably be happy with it, because all I'm expecting is a merely okay dumb action movie on the same level as Winter Soldier. All it has to do to succeed in my mind is be better than the atrocious Avengers films and I'm sure it will be.
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Apr 30, 2016 23:52
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I thought people liked Avengers 1, just not 2
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Apr 30, 2016 23:58
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broken clock opsec posted:Watchmen DC made it go from Pretty Good to Pretty Awesome, so there's that if you want an example that's actually from the same director working for the same company making a superhero comic book movie. He also added a scene to Dawn of The Dead for home video while reinserting the Gore he had to remove for the theatrical. His Sucker Punch extended cut adds a number of tiny character moments and one big scene that makes Jon Hamm integral to the movie's message and not a "oh hi there" cameo appearance. In fact I think Man of Steel might be the only live-action Snyder movie that doesn't have a director's cut. Even 300 has a "Complete Experience" cut that inserts some moments here and there. It seems like he at some point just hands his preferred cut over to the studio and if they snip it up he makes sure that the pre-snipped one will make it out into the world in a reasonable amount of time.
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May 1, 2016 00:01
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Man, I'm just happy Spiderman is in the Avengers. Then they can get the Fantastic Four back and put them in the Avengers. Then they can bring the Defenders into the Avengers. Then they can bring the Guardians of the Galaxy into the Avengers. They they can bring back Ghost Rider and put HIM in the Avengers. Then they can work out a deal with Fox and put the X-men and Deadpool in the Avengers. Then at that point Disney will have made so much money that they will buy the DC universe and put THEM in the Avengers. Then there will be peace.
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May 1, 2016 00:03
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I was pleasantly surprised with Winter Soldier, but I'm not expecting a shitshow, just more of the same, really.
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May 1, 2016 00:07
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I've been saying for a while now that I fully expect there to be a shared Marvel/DC movie universe by 2025.
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May 1, 2016 00:08
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Is it just me or is it that comic book movies fail the hardest/are least popular with hardcore fans when they take popular characters and don't do them justice? Deadpool in Wolverine Origins Dr Doom in any Fantastic Four movie (maybe with the exception of that one that got his look right but hosed everything else up) Batman and Superman in Batman V Superman (I can literally make this list forever) All of these movies seem to illicit a real sense of pure despise from the nerd community. If some people didn't like BvS, it might be because they wanted it to be good, because they like the property involved and hate to see it shat all over? Not just Marvel fans, people who enjoy quality comic book themed entertainment in general. Not to mention people who take literal umbrage with the fact that other nerdos don't vehemently defend the properties they claim to enjoy yet don't mind witnessing being ruined by ham fisted directing. BvS is a perfect storm of nerd rage. graham cracker fucked around with this message at 00:12 on May 1, 2016 |
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May 1, 2016 00:10
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:As obvious as this stuff is, somehow it's always skipped over that Clark is aware of how he's viewed and doesn't yet know how to play the part, instead of simply being Born Good. Part of what makes the Snyder/Cavill Superman so good is that they're purposefully downplaying the Jesus aspects of the character while emphasizing the Moses aspects. He gets angry, makes mistakes, and even tries to shirk his responsibilities.
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May 1, 2016 00:27
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Regarding Christ metaphors, I think the reason Christ metaphors work badly with Superman is that Superman keeps on dying and coming back to life over and over again. In the standard narrative of the heroic sacrifice, the idea is that the sacrifice is meaningful because you think it's permanent, and indeed even when the hero comes back it's never quite the same. Whereas we've already seen this thing played in Superman Returns, and in wider media, to the extent that it's pretty much become a schtick.
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May 1, 2016 00:30
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Comrade Fakename posted:They also inspired pages and pages of arguments in this thread, so according to BravestOfTheLamps' "people argue about it = quality" metric, the Avengers films are also two of the greatest films of all time. The Avenger 'debate' was like "wow that's really amateurish" vs. "stop being so critical." In other words, the debate was over the quality itself. With BVS, there's a consistent reaction of "I don't care how good it looks; batman does not kill pepl!!" and that's the sign that something very interesting is going on.
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May 1, 2016 00:36
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Phylodox posted:I've been saying for a while now that I fully expect there to be a shared Marvel/DC movie universe by 2025. I for one can't wait for the fanboy response to Superman snapping Iron Man's neck. SuperMechagodzilla posted:With BVS, there's a consistent reaction of "I don't care how good it looks; batman does not kill pepl!!" and that's the sign that something very interesting is going on. Be fair, there's also a lot of complaining about it not having enough jokes to remind the audience that nothing happening on screen actually matters.
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May 1, 2016 00:54
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Marky Marx posted:Dr Doom in any Fantastic Four movie (maybe with the exception of that one that got his look right but hosed everything else up) The first Fantastic Four movie's problem was that it was never ever intended to be released. Otherwise it's the most faithful comic book movie ever to be made especially the lovely plot and awful visuals.
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