|
I really hope Lexi Alexander directs an episode at least of the Punisher series.
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2016 18:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 04:52 |
|
|
Frank castle was cool in Daredevil and all, but an entire series revolving around his brooding, tough-guy rear end would be exhausting to watch.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2016 18:50
|
|
|
unlike Matts brooding and anxiety over killing? It'll just be brooding and excitement over killing instead
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2016 19:02
|
|
|
zoux posted:Just as long as it ain't Kitchen Irish, although they already shot the guys face off so he's ready for that one. Kitchen Irish always gets such a bad rap. It's not the best story, but it introduced me to the phrase "Shower o' cunts," so it'll always hold a special place in my heart.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2016 19:51
|
|
|
LegalPad posted:Frank castle was cool in Daredevil and all, but an entire series revolving around his brooding, tough-guy rear end would be exhausting to watch. Bernthal's Punisher is still a human being at least, albeit a super broken one. His mission could be framed as giving him a focus to channel his trauma and rage instead of being the sum total of his entire being, leaving something of a person aside in the quiet moments like when he was chatting with Karen in the diner. His struggle would be holding on to that humanity in honor of his family, and to not become a grief-blinded monster seeing targets everywhere he turns.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2016 19:52
|
|
|
all the other marvel heroes should make cameos in his show
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2016 20:25
|
|
|
Cool. After being pleasantly surprised with dd s2 I think I can actually be optimistic about a punisher series.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2016 20:30
|
|
|
Castle was so great because he was the violent relief to DD's passivity. He was basically a physical manifestation of the "darkness" that DD was holding back by never killing people. I hope The Punisher series has a huge list of supporting cast.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2016 20:48
|
|
|
LegalPad posted:Castle was so great because he was the violent relief to DD's passivity. He was basically a physical manifestation of the "darkness" that DD was holding back by never killing people. I could see them doing the one sub arc from Welcome Back Frank where he inspires all these copycats that completely miss the mark and end up killing innocents. I think that works a lot better earlier in Frank's career where he might have a moment of doubt over what he's unleashed.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2016 21:17
|
|
|
DivisionPost posted:And here we go: Netflix orders a Punisher series with Jon Bernthal. Steve Lightfoot -- from motherfucking Hannibal -- will run the show. mmmm mmm good feelin super toxic right now
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2016 21:46
|
|
|
Professor Wayne posted:Just finished Daredevil season 2. Overall really good, but I couldn't stand Paige by the end of it. In a show about a blind dude dressing up in a devil costume to beat up bad guys, she seemed like the wish-fulfillment fantasy character. She's just way too naturally competent at every situation she lands in. From the moment she walks into the newsroom, she is immediately the best investigative reporter ever, can connect all the dots the professionals missed, and wins herself a giant office in a pretty crowded looking building without even writing a story. I hope all her coworkers hate her. Don't worry, she gets addicted to heroin and starts doing porn to support her habit.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2016 21:52
|
|
|
I finally got around to watching Daredevil season two and holy poo poo is it ever schizophrenic. The story and character development built around the Punisher plot is fantastic, including the portion in prison with Fisk, and everything outside of that involving the ninjas is utterly forgettable puerile poo poo. The ninja guys, Hand or whatever, the armies of toothless ninjas ripped straight out of a Ninja Turtles cartoon episode, Electra, Stick, all of it was loving stupid and on par with what can be expected from network trash like Agents of Shield and Flash. Even the direction and choreography of the action scenes outside of the Punisher's was loving awful, especially in comparison to that of the first season.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2016 08:05
|
|
|
BiggerBoat posted:Stilt Man! The Toad! Typhoid Mary is awesome. You just shut your MOUTH!
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2016 08:42
|
|
|
Aphrodite posted:That's one story. Is this a compliment?
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2016 08:47
|
|
|
Framing the Punisher series' story the same way the Xbox game did could be interesting: open with Frank being interrogated in jail, and the series is an unfolding series of flashbacks revealing bit by bit what lead up to Frank's arrest and ending in a huge battle in the prison itself because Frank deliberately let himself be arrested so he could get at his real target.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2016 11:57
|
|
|
I thought the punisher was great in DD, I'm not sure he can carry a series. If he has any character development at all he basically stops being the punisher. So hes stuck as "Angry american man who solves all problems with guns", and other than the skull tshirt branding thats not exactly an uncommon theme in american media.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2016 14:15
|
|
|
Wheeee posted:The ninja guys, Hand or whatever, the armies of toothless ninjas ripped straight out of a Ninja Turtles cartoon episode, Electra, Stick, all of it was loving stupid and on par with what can be expected from network trash like Agents of Shield and Flash. Even the direction and choreography of the action scenes outside of the Punisher's was loving awful, especially in comparison to that of the first season. Technically, its the other way around. The "Foot" ninja from TMNT are a direct rip-off of the "Hand" ninja published by Marvel well before then. In fact the original TMNT origin story has the turtles getting mutated by the same stuff that gives Matt Murdock his enhanced senses. Not that I'm disagreeing with your overall analysis, mind. I too found the Punisher stuff far more compelling. But it's important to know who inspired who.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2016 16:49
|
|
|
I, too, get mad when a central defining element of a comic book character is introduced.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2016 18:03
|
|
|
Toxxupation posted:I, too, get mad when a central defining element of a comic book character is introduced. "A central defining element of a comic book character" doesn't mean it's good or presented well. Daredevil killed off Ben Urich in the first season. It is under no obligation to do things like the comics and that isn't an excuse.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2016 18:11
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:"A central defining element of a comic book character" doesn't mean it's good or presented well. Then that's the argument. The argument isn't that ninjas are stupid or don't make sense or break immersion (when, reminder, you are watching a comic book TV series), it's that the presentation of ninjas was stupid, didn't make sense, or broke immersion. The execution is the issue here, not the conception.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2016 18:21
|
|
|
RareAcumen posted:Is this a compliment? The latest Punisher writer was a real piece of crap. I think someone else is getting the book soon, or already has.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2016 19:14
|
|
|
Wheeee posted:The ninja guys, Hand or whatever, the armies of toothless ninjas ripped straight out of a Ninja Turtles cartoon episode I'm not trying to make fun of you at all, but I think it's kinda funny that so many people don't realize that TMNT started off taking the piss out of Daredevil. All the turtles had red masks, the ooze was the same stuff that gave DD his powers, Stick = Splinter, and Hand = Foot.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2016 23:49
|
|
|
SonicRulez posted:I'm not trying to make fun of you at all, but I think it's kinda funny that so many people don't realize that TMNT started off taking the piss out of Daredevil. All the turtles had red masks, the ooze was the same stuff that gave DD his powers, Stick = Splinter, and Hand = Foot. Not just DD, it was a sharp parody of mainstream comics in general. Of course, TMNT went on to become the very thing it was parodying, but by then the creators were too busy drinking gold-plated martinis to care.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2016 00:25
|
|
|
I'm happy for a Punisher series but I'd rather have heard there'd be DD season 3 first 
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2016 01:59
|
|
|
Toxxupation posted:Then that's the argument. The argument isn't that ninjas are stupid or don't make sense or break immersion (when, reminder, you are watching a comic book TV series), it's that the presentation of ninjas was stupid, didn't make sense, or broke immersion. The execution is the issue here, not the conception. I'd argue that the concept of magical immortal ninjas in a series that so far is very down to Earth aside from the main character having a very mundane superpower is a bad idea. The fact that it was in the comics doesn't excuse it because it goes against the feel and tone of the show almost every time it shows up. It also seriously hurts Elektra who goes from being someone who embodies the dangerous aspects of Matt's personality to being a magical superbeing who was lying the entire time and retroactively makes every interaction she has with Matt to that point worse.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2016 03:32
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:I'd argue that the concept of magical immortal ninjas in a series that so far is very down to Earth aside from the main character having a very mundane superpower is a bad idea. The fact that it was in the comics doesn't excuse it because it goes against the feel and tone of the show almost every time it shows up. It also seriously hurts Elektra who goes from being someone who embodies the dangerous aspects of Matt's personality to being a magical superbeing who was lying the entire time and retroactively makes every interaction she has with Matt to that point worse. 90% of this is ill-disguised complaints about execution. quote:I'd argue that the concept of magical immortal ninjas in a series that so far is very down to Earth aside from the main character having a very mundane superpower is a bad idea. The TV show sold audiences a glorified bill of goods in season one. It's a Daredevil TV show. If you have ever read any Daredevil comics, or know literally anything about Daredevil as a character, he fights ninjas. That's what he loving does. Complaining about the fact that they brought ninjas into a TV show about a guy who, in the source material, chiefly fights ninjas. Unless you think they should've brought in Bullseye, who's basically a ninja but with a giant loving target on his head and a boner for killing Daredevil. Basically 90% of the complaints about season 2 are complaints that a TV show based on a comic book ended up being, indeed, a TV show based on a comic book. So very little of the criticisms are based off execution so much as people honestly arguing that Daredevil shouldn't have ninjas in it. I agree there was a failure in DD; that was in presenting an unsustainable universe in season one. I mean, it was doomed from the start because it's explicitly within the MCU canon, which as of this moment has Norse gods, planar travel, time travel, and magic, but the intention of season one, especially with the source material given to them, of being this small-scale totally grounded thing was impossible to keep going. And again, I really don't find that absurd the idea that ninjas can exist when a guy who has radar vision from radioactive waste and a one-man army who's basically unkillable (except when he isn't) are already present within the confined space of this specific interpretation. NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 03:46 on May 1, 2016 |
|
#
?
May 1, 2016 03:38
|
|
|
Toxxupation posted:The TV show sold audiences a glorified bill of goods in season one. It's a Daredevil TV show. If you have ever read any Daredevil comics, or know literally anything about Daredevil as a character, he fights ninjas. That's what he loving does. Complaining about the fact that they brought ninjas into a TV show about a guy who, in the source material, chiefly fights ninjas. Unless you think they should've brought in Bullseye, who's basically a ninja but with a giant loving target on his head and a boner for killing Daredevil. I see what you mean but I don't think a slavish devotion to the comic books is what makes comic book adaptations great. Just because something works in a comic book doesn't mean it's going to work on a small or big screen. Like, people didn't enjoy it. It made the show suffer, made it a huge letdown. That matters. The comics are pretty cool but they also have lots of goofy poo poo in them. Do we put in the Punisher knife-gun because it was "in the comics"? Do we have Peter Parker make a deal with Satan to reverse his marriage because it was "in the comics"? I would think that kind of stuff would drag down their adaptations. Just because something is in the source material doesn't make it sacrosanct. I'm sorry to have to be the one to bear this bad news, but.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2016 04:02
|
|
|
Aphrodite posted:The latest Punisher writer was a real piece of crap. I think someone else is getting the book soon, or already has. Yeah, when you hire a guy from a think-tank whose literal mission statement is "make more right-wing fuckheads" to write a Punisher book you're gonna end up with some boiled nonsense. Gynovore posted:Not just DD, it was a sharp parody of mainstream comics in general. I'd... actually say it became the opposite of what it was parodying. It was parodying ultra-grimdark (for the time) stuff like Frank Miller's work, and that's just about the last thing I'd use to describe TMNT as I know it.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2016 04:14
|
|
|
HIJK posted:I see what you mean but I don't think a slavish devotion to the comic books is what makes comic book adaptations great. Just because something works in a comic book doesn't mean it's going to work on a small or big screen. That's not my point. My point is that's a central defining element of the source material. Daredevil without ninjas is Lord of the Rings without orcs. Your counterpoints are a dumb goofy easter egg (which they ABSOLUTELY SHOULD INCLUDE in the Punisher TV show because knifegun is the greatest poo poo) and a terrible awful plotline that everyone loving hated that was only included because they had to think of a way to retcon even worse plotlines they had introduced previously. He's Daredevil. He fights ninjas. That's what he does.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2016 04:28
|
|
|
Toxxupation posted:That's not my point. My point is that's a central defining element of the source material. Daredevil without ninjas is Lord of the Rings without orcs. Your counterpoints are a dumb goofy easter egg (which they ABSOLUTELY SHOULD INCLUDE in the Punisher TV show because knifegun is the greatest poo poo) and a terrible awful plotline that everyone loving hated that was only included because they had to think of a way to retcon even worse plotlines they had introduced previously. If you removed ninjas from Daredevil then you would still have Daredevil. The Matt Murdock character is not the slightest bit dependent on there being ninjas in his life. Mark Waid's run on Daredevil managed to be really great without a lot of ninja stuff going on. In fact I'd say that the Ikari character is proof that the ninja stuff works best in small doses in Daredevil-land. Like I'm sorry I have to point this out but Daredevil actually does more than just fighting ninjas. Ann Nocenti's run is chock full of weird wacky mind bending poo poo that is pretty great and doesn't have lots of ninjas in it. Wilson Fisk is supposed to be Daredevil's greatest nemesis and he somehow manages it without being part of the Hand. Why are you people so obsessed about ninjas? Why are you so convinced that ninjas are the only good form of Daredevil-oriented entertainment? "That's what he does"? Really? The only thing I'm getting out of this is that critiquing the laughable execution of ninjas in season 2 is some sort of hideous evil, like we're committing blasphemy about the sacredness of a comic book character. Ninjas suck, they've always sucked, and it's no surprise that they made season 2 mediocre.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2016 04:36
|
|
|
LORD OF BOOTY posted:I'd... actually say it became the opposite of what it was parodying. It was parodying ultra-grimdark (for the time) stuff like Frank Miller's work, and that's just about the last thing I'd use to describe TMNT as I know it. Go check out some of the comics from when they moved from Mirage to Image Comics.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2016 04:37
|
|
|
HIJK posted:Ninjas suck, they've always sucked, and it's no surprise that they made season 2 mediocre. No, it's a big loving surprise because there's a whole lot of great Daredevil stories with ninjas in them. What made season 2 mediocre is bad writers. Just like Jessica Jones. It's not episode count, it's not ninjas, it's not whatever other excuses people make.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2016 04:44
|
|
|
My whole point is I don't care if the ninjas in Season 2 were bad. My point is that's the complaint. Saying "ninjas are implausible to Daredevil" is illustrative of ignorance, because they're a central defining element of his character and pretending that a comic book TV show isn't based off the comic book is stupid. It's stupid. If you think the ninjas in Season 2 are bad, I'm not going to argue with you. That's fine. Because you're arguing an executional point. But to say that the very concept of ninjas being in Daredevil, aka a conceptual argument, is where I'm going to make a stringent point that ninjas have always been a central defining element and primary antagonist of Daredevil. Saying that ninjas are antithetical to the universe of Daredevil doesn't work based off the source material, doesn't work practically if you think about it (it's in the MCU, which again has magic and time travel and gods who can control thunder and wormholes to alternate planes of existence, I think magic ninjas can plausibly exist there), it just doesn't work. It's a dumb criticism. Criticise how ninjas are implemented all day in season 2 for all I care, but stop holding comic book TV shows to your own flawed interpretation of what "THEY MUST BE". Because they're not that. They never have been.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2016 04:45
|
|
|
Is daredevil not a ninja himself?
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2016 04:52
|
|
|
I don't think anyone is specifically complaining about there being ninjas in Daredevil. Most complaints I've read here are about the fact that they're badly executed in the sense that they pale in comparison to the first half of the season (which I don't agree with, by the way).bunnyofdoom posted:Is daredevil not a ninja himself? If you define ninja as "martial artist trained in ninjutsu," then yes, he's definitely a ninja. He knows many other fighting styles though and blends them in with ninjutsu. Slow News Day fucked around with this message at 05:06 on May 1, 2016 |
|
#
?
May 1, 2016 05:02
|
|
|
Are we not all ninjas?
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2016 05:03
|
|
|
Toxxupation posted:If you have ever read any Daredevil comics, or know literally anything about Daredevil as a character, he fights ninjas. Who gives a poo poo? A television show shouldn't be obligated to stick to the comics. "It is that way in the comics" doesn't matter. Ever. There is no point where "it is that way in the comics" is justification for something that hurts the story. The fact that it hurts the story because of poor execution doesn't matter because that cut goes both ways. A story can also be better for deviating from the comic as long as the execution is good.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2016 05:08
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:Who gives a poo poo? A television show shouldn't be obligated to stick to the comics. Good thing I never said that. Seriously, do you read posts ever before constructing a strawman to rail against in response?
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2016 05:11
|
|
|
Toxxupation posted:Good thing I never said that. Seriously, do you read posts ever before constructing a strawman to rail against in response? Yes? Your entire argument is that you want people to show deference to the comics which nothing should ever do, ever. If a product creates a massive deviation from the source material that is fine and no amount of 'it is that way in the comics' is any form of defense. The ninjas in Daredevil, the TV show, are in fact lovely and don't work for the concept they tried to do and while there is a theoretical execution that could make them work, it's far easier to imagine an execution that removes them entirely and results in a better story.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2016 05:17
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 04:52 |
|
|
Toxxupation posted:Good thing I never said that. Seriously, do you read posts ever before constructing a strawman to rail against in response? Here you said quote:My point is that's a central defining element of the source material. Daredevil without ninjas is Lord of the Rings without orcs You also called the ninja stuff an essential part of the Daredevil source material and that it was totally ridiculous to expect ninjaaaaas to not appear in the show. That is the definition of "it's that way in the comics so it has to be that way in the show." Which, well, just isn't true.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2016 05:18
|
|