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DreadLlama posted:I would add to this: Conceivably the decision to not give any guarantees as to where you land in relation to close binaries and/or not to auto-cancel the throttle. Enough people would fly into stars and explode to eventually force  to kick you back into the cockpit on landing regardless.
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Apr 30, 2016 18:04
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tooterfish posted:I'm not too sure about this. People almost always seem gravitate towards the most efficient grinding, sometimes to the point of utter self loathing. I think it's a psychological kink we have as a species. It's why gamification is a thing, we'll subject ourselves to the most tedious poo poo ever as long as some imaginary numbers go up. This is so very true but I didn't realize how bad it was until GTA Online. IN GTAO one of the primary ways to earn levels and cash was to do contact jobs, jobs that contacts would be offered to you by contacts and once you did them once they would end up on a big list so you could repeat them at will. New jobs opened up from the beginning of the game to the 80 level range slowly expanding the list of available jobs to 100+ The problem is that the jobs had wide pay disparity for the effort they took. Some of the worst jobs, offered by Simeon, would pay 1200 for 6-10 minutes to finish it meaning an hourly return of 10k an hour. Better jobs averaged 50k an hour or so with the best jobs, of which there were only maybe 1 or 2 would pay 150k an hour. People would grind the job Rooftop Rumble over and over and over and that's the only job they would do. It was soul crushing. Rockstar then rebalanced the pay of all of those jobs so no matter what job you did you could make 100k an hour if you had half a brain. You could pick any job and do it and make solid pay. 90+% of the jobs pays more to substantially more than they used to so you could play whatever you felt like and have a lot more fun doing it. People still complain to this day that the update was a nerf because the one single soul crushing job that was repeated to nausea paid less now, even though almost everything else was increased. loving people.
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Apr 30, 2016 18:35
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Strategic Tea posted:That's just it - there are no features. There are only more ships, and while I love spaceships, once you have a decent jump range having different ships doesn't open up any new gameplay at all. The more expensive ships play substantially differently from the cheaper ships. If you don't think there's any difference in gameplay between the Eagle and the FAS, or between the Hauler and the Python, I dunno what to tell you
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Apr 30, 2016 18:43
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Tippis posted:Conceivably the decision to not give any guarantees as to where you land in relation to close binaries and/or not to auto-cancel the throttle. Enough people would fly into stars and explode to eventually force 
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Apr 30, 2016 19:43
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Main Paineframe posted:The more expensive ships play substantially differently from the cheaper ships. If you don't think there's any difference in gameplay between the Eagle and the FAS, or between the Hauler and the Python, I dunno what to tell you They fly differently, but at the end of the day you're still either pointing the ship at mans and shooting them or flying through mailslots. It's different but I wouldn't call it feature gating. Ultimately I stopped bothering much with new ships, because once I'd got over the sweet new cockpit I was always disappointed. I'd let the feeling of progression trick me into expecting anything other than the fact that this one kills faster or that one can't take on an anaconda.
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Apr 30, 2016 19:49
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Pilchenstein posted:I'm hoping they'll sort out the "arriving inside an object" thing eventually, it makes the game seem really amateurish when you drop inside a station's mesh. Maybe once walking in ships arrives and they can't guarantee people will be sat in the chair ready to panic once they exit hyperspace/supercruise. I'd fully expect pushback from the brown sea though. I'm really of two minds about it. On the one hand, yeah, it would be really neat if there was some collision logic to where you land. On the other hand, until (if ever) they implement some kind of deep space threat, those close landings are really the only excitement you ever get out of exploration. Looking at the star map preview and figuring out whether that indistinguishable smear of stars is worth the risk/effort to go in there and have a look represents half of the risky choices you're ever faced with (the other being "can I avoid crashing on this high-gravity planet?”). Maybe if they made it as a risk vs. effort choice — you can choose to jump in at a safe distance, but that means you land 100k ls away from everything. So while you can certainly land safely honk the system, any scanning of more interesting stars and plants will mean you have to SC a looong way to get there.
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Apr 30, 2016 19:59
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Tippis posted:Maybe if they made it as a risk vs. effort choice — you can choose to jump in at a safe distance, but that means you land 100k ls away from everything. So while you can certainly land safely honk the system, any scanning of more interesting stars and plants will mean you have to SC a looong way to get there. I don't think they should add an option that is lovely and not fun.
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Apr 30, 2016 20:04
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Shine posted:I don't think they should add an option that is lovely and not fun. Arriving out in the middle of nowhere would be great for a "just travelling" mode, and also help with the 400 interdictions you get on your way back from Robigo.  But sure, if they add in some more interesting risk, the warp in hazard could just be cut completely since it's pretty silly to begin with.
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Apr 30, 2016 20:13
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much rather be able to jump directly to any stellar body far, far too close get around scans by popping in next to a station at 400 m/s and 800m from the mailslot 
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Apr 30, 2016 20:33
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That could be hilarious if you popped into normal space at planetary glide speeds from a random angle and had to take evasive maneuvers to avoid pancaking into the station at 2.5km/s.
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Apr 30, 2016 21:50
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Frags are wonderful   timn posted:That could be hilarious if you popped into normal space at planetary glide speeds from a random angle and had to take evasive maneuvers to avoid pancaking into the station at 2.5km/s. I wish you could glide longer on planetary approach. I want to glide down to NOE and just cruise above the surface until I smash into a space power line.
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Apr 30, 2016 23:00
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Tippis posted:On the other hand, until (if ever) they implement some kind of deep space threat, those close landings are really the only excitement you ever get out of exploration.
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Apr 30, 2016 23:18
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Strategic Tea posted:That's just it - there are no features. There are only more ships, and while I love spaceships, once you have a decent jump range having different ships doesn't open up any new gameplay at all. It's kinda depressing that I can take months-long break from this game and check out the last two pages of the thread to see people talking about issues that apparently haven't advanced since the beta. This game could have been so good.
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Apr 30, 2016 23:40
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I'm sorry, but this game is good. e: 
Natsuumi fucked around with this message at 00:06 on May 1, 2016 |
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May 1, 2016 00:04
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The core gameplay is fantastic, and everything else is minimally functional at best.
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May 1, 2016 00:14
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Voyager I posted:The core gameplay is fantastic, and everything else is minimally functional at best. Someone's a little grumpy about being bumped around too much!
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May 1, 2016 01:12
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Isn't there variety? If I want to shoot mans in powerplay, I naturally want to take a vulture. But this means 19+ jumps to get from where I parked my ratting ship to where there's men to shoot. Because I only like to watch the wormhole sequence when I'm exploring and not when I'm manshotting, I want to get to the nearest PP expansion system in 7 jumps or fewer. This means DBE or ASP. Shooting NPCs in a vulture vs. in an asp is a very different experience. For a well-fit vulture, nothing short of multiple anacondas / clippers in a wing is a genuine threat. For myself, even a single anaconda is a risky proposition in a DBE. It is slow enough that even with full power to engines, I'll take enough hits to need full power to shields, which means less time with full power to weapons, which means taking more hits. It might not look it on paper, but this kills things a lot more slowly than this. You wouldn't think so right away what with 12 dps being a higher number than 8. But it turns out that "9 agility" is really really super important and lets you get away with crazy stupid stuff like getting right up on someone and shooting them nonstop in the powerplant for a minute straight without in turn taking a single shot. In fact I wonder if releasing the vulture wasn't a mistake. It's almost too perfect. I guess it'd only be a problem if there were some sort of conflict of interest wherein frontier's funding were somehow related to ship balance.
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May 1, 2016 01:13
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Strategic Tea posted:I kind of worry that they'll never be successful, since when players are given a galaxy they'll all go farm Robigo because maximum ISK/hour Well, it's not JUST that it's maximum per hour. It's also the fact that outside of things people call "exploits" even when not using the literal exploits, everything else is loving garbage. I haven't even done any Robigoagogo stuff myself out of a combination of stubborness and lazyness. But I still barely touch the Bboards unless it's related to Reputation... And then were back to "Ugh, that's basically an exploit for WoW grind obsessives  " from the Average Elite Player, because anything that gives tangible progress past 1% every hour or two involves mission stacking or praying to the Bboard jesus for donations be it cash or easy supplies.So of course their big announced in newsletter "improvement" to planetside missions, is to add hostile ships guarding outposts. Because oh poo poo, people are stacking outposts assaults! ... What? Escape pod missions are so buggy that even if you take them with a cargo hold full of escape pods you took four hours to fill fail literally instantly? Wait until 2.1 you entitled manchild, we told you were were GOING to fix it! Later. Guess which point it was I finally started stacking planetary assaults long enough to to from Nothing to Viscount a while back. EDIT: I would take way more Bboard missions just for fun, if I could guarantee a way to get "Legal" combat bboard missions. But the majority of the time, its either asking you to murder people that would make you wanted by the station and faction you are working for, or it's one of those missions that's a coinflip if your target is wanted or not. Yeah yeah, bounties are an "Idiot tax". But that still doesn't change the fact they should make it easier to work for the people writing the bounty checks in an official combat capacity outside of RES farming or CZs. Instead of an entire Bboard filled with Empire Naval rank up missions asking you to murder Empire cops and Empire Miners, to prove your dedication to keeping the empire citizens safe. Section Z fucked around with this message at 01:58 on May 1, 2016 |
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May 1, 2016 01:47
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people keep complaining about missions as though they aren't being completely overhauled in a week
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May 1, 2016 17:43
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TRON JEREMY posted:people keep complaining about missions as though they aren't being completely overhauled in a week How many times have they claimed that so far? I can remember Missions getting "completely overhauled" after beta, then again with powerplay at the very least. Neither of those times did they do poo poo about the missions paying like poo poo 99% of the time and gating the 1% that pays decently behind Elite rank. I know several people that bought ED and just want to make some money taking missions like they're supposed to (and like the game is telling them to), but they simply can't because the mission system is hosed. The lack of reward for grouping doesn't help either (and the fact that grouping came months after "release"). And they're understandably annoyed, because having a working mission system isn't rocket science. It's super basic. Many games have had decent missions - loving Freelancer nailed it years ago and that was a game made by Chris Roberts!. If Roberts can do it, how the hell has Elite not done it yet after how many months and an entire expansion? DatonKallandor fucked around with this message at 17:52 on May 1, 2016 |
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May 1, 2016 17:50
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granted I only have a few hours into this game now, but I'm having fun with this game so far 
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May 1, 2016 17:51
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DatonKallandor posted:And they're understandably annoyed, because having a working mission system isn't rocket science. It's super basic. Many games have had decent missions - loving Freelancer nailed it years ago and that was a game made by Chris Roberts!. If Roberts can do it, how the hell has Elite not done it yet after how many months and an entire expansion? “Attempted by” is probably more accurate than “made by.”
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May 1, 2016 18:14
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DatonKallandor posted:How many times have they claimed that so far? I can remember Missions getting "completely overhauled" after beta, then again with powerplay at the very least. Neither of those times did they do poo poo about the missions paying like poo poo 99% of the time and gating the 1% that pays decently behind Elite rank. I know several people that bought ED and just want to make some money taking missions like they're supposed to (and like the game is telling them to), but they simply can't because the mission system is hosed. The lack of reward for grouping doesn't help either (and the fact that grouping came months after "release"). 
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May 1, 2016 19:32
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DatonKallandor posted:How many times have they claimed that so far? I can remember Missions getting "completely overhauled" after beta, then again with powerplay at the very least. Neither of those times did they do poo poo about the missions paying like poo poo 99% of the time and gating the 1% that pays decently behind Elite rank. I know several people that bought ED and just want to make some money taking missions like they're supposed to (and like the game is telling them to), but they simply can't because the mission system is hosed. The lack of reward for grouping doesn't help either (and the fact that grouping came months after "release"). Except in this case their stated goal was to make missions worth running for more players than just people starting out.
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May 1, 2016 19:51
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Sedisp posted:Except in this case their stated goal was to make missions worth running for more players than just people starting out. Yeah but personally I doubt Frontier even knows what that even means. They stuck to their guns with power play and it's a thing that lots of people see as a pointless grind and that's after they walked back from the most heinous of things. Remember how there was only going to be 1 person as the top Power Play cmdr for each faction?
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May 1, 2016 20:34
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DatonKallandor posted:And they're understandably annoyed, because having a working mission system isn't rocket science. It's super basic. Many games have had decent missions - loving Freelancer nailed it years ago and that was a game made by Chris Roberts!. If Roberts can do it, how the hell has Elite not done it yet after how many months and an entire expansion?
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May 1, 2016 21:06
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tooterfish posted:I've never played the game, what is it about the missions in Freelancer that makes them better? They work.
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May 1, 2016 21:12
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Dead helpful that.
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May 1, 2016 21:17
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May 1, 2016 21:25
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tooterfish posted:Dead helpful that.  Ok. What I mean is that they follow very simple templates, and that they do not break down at the drop of a hat for no apparent reason. “Go kill dude; here is a waypoint” -> go to waypoint, dude is there -> kill him, return to base -> "Good on you, have cash.” “Go capture dude; here is a waypoint” -> go to waypoint, dude is there -> blow him up and pick up the pod, return to base -> “Good on you, have cash.” “Go blow up installation; here is a waypoint” -> go to waypoint, installation is clearly marked -> blow it up and RTB -> "Good on you, have cash.” You fail them if you do something obviously wrong, like blow up pods and loot drops you are meant to tractor and return, not because of some hidden background flag that flips out of nowhere without explanation when you've got 2 hours left on the mission clock. The objectives are clear and the method for fulfilling them are spelled out; the objectives are marked, so you know what to actually do when you get there; the objectives actually appear in space as expected, rather than bug out half the time. If you pick a difficult mission, you get larger numbers and/or higher-levelled opponents; pick an easy one and you get fewer and lower levels. The system is, in short, robust and logical, even if (or maybe because) the missions themselves are fairly simplistic.
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May 1, 2016 21:35
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Tippis posted:
Sorry, I just had a moment of irony when I remembered the vitriol surrounding that game, it's development, and everything associated with it when it came out. Now it's an example of a working product... 
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May 1, 2016 22:26
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It would have been super cool early on when I was putzing about in an adder if 'harmless' bounty missions did not pit you against loving anacondas and pythons 90% of the time. I remember considering myself lucky if I only got a master piloting a loving cobra.
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May 1, 2016 22:41
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A 100% chance to find your assassination target when you warp into system would make me actually consider doing assassination missions.
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May 1, 2016 22:55
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To be honest most of that stuff is what they specifically say they're fixing this update. Will have to see of course.
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May 2, 2016 00:48
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Alright i've come back apparently just in time for A: massive helpings of diamond frog action and B: big huge patches very soon?
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May 2, 2016 01:00
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DatonKallandor posted:How many times have they claimed that so far? I can remember Missions getting "completely overhauled" after beta, then again with powerplay at the very least.
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May 2, 2016 05:34
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One thing I think I've seen in the dev livestreams was a clock in your cockpit instead of needing to go to the galaxy map to find out what time it is.
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May 2, 2016 06:23
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IAmTheRad posted:One thing I think I've seen in the dev livestreams was a clock in your cockpit instead of needing to go to the galaxy map to find out what time it is. I wear a watch, ya its an archaic form of time keeping but it works.
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May 2, 2016 06:26
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1500 posted:I wear a watch, ya its an archaic form of time keeping but it works. Does it show the in-game time, like "meet me in system at 16:42" mission guys but of course they won't show up.
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May 2, 2016 06:27
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IAmTheRad posted:Does it show the in-game time, like "meet me in system at 16:42" mission guys but of course they won't show up. Math
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May 2, 2016 06:28
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