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a life less posted:My guess is that the "nothing" you see is actually the freeze that often comes before a growl or snap. quote:If strange kids approach, just leave. Pick the dog up if you want to. She clearly has some prejudices when it comes to types of people. Men are good, tall men are better. She is instant buddies with any adult man who walks in the door. Women are suspicious at first, but OK once I've greeted them and they've approached her nicely. Older kids/teenagers she is wary of until she knows them. Little kids she is very wary of. I am guessing these are related to her prior experiences. If "ignore her until you get taller" is the only thing that ends up working with the 8-year-old, then we'll deal with it. I wish I could hire a behaviorist, but, well, money is an issue.
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May 2, 2016 16:44
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pookel posted:Thank you, this is the sort of answer I'm asking for. I don't want headpats and affirmation. I just want advice on what TO do rather than what NOT to. people gave you a shitload of advice just like this in the puppy thread on this exact subject and yet here we are, repeating the same poo poo that you apparently read, paid attention to, and implemented for fucks sake
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May 2, 2016 16:58
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pookel posted:
My Chihuahua can identify a little girl vs a little boy at 100 feet. Her anxiety spikes and she gets defensive. Because in her last home, the owner would babysit little girls and she would be inundated with their presence without any opportunity to get space without freaking the gently caress out at them. She knows who is most likely to approach her. I suspect that the hierarchy of the strangers who your dog likes most may be directly tied who who is least likely to force interaction with her. It's not a matter of making your 8-year old taller, but reinforcing your 8-year old for ignoring the dog. If the dog approaches on her own volition, cool. Continue to ignore or be low key. But at this point I'm just repeating stuff, so I'll stop.
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May 2, 2016 17:08
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Ausrotten posted:people gave you a shitload of advice just like this in the puppy thread on this exact subject and yet here we are, repeating the same poo poo that you apparently read, paid attention to, and implemented So maybe don't do that
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May 2, 2016 17:24
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pookel posted:Yeah that is what was annoying, you are repeating the same poo poo that I already know and am implementing as if I'm a goddamn idiot who is shoving strange kids at my dog and telling them to pet her Well clearly you have done it with great success.
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May 2, 2016 17:28
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we've been telling you to do thispaisleyfox posted:Even your 8 year old son, ignore her. Treats and ignore. Treats and ignore. If she wants to interact, she will come up to interact. since the first time you posted about this problem but ok
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May 2, 2016 17:31
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pookel posted:Yeah that is what was annoying, you are repeating the same poo poo that I already know and am implementing as if I'm a goddamn idiot who is shoving strange kids at my dog and telling them to pet her People keep telling you the same things because you keep posting about the same situations. I know you said that you don't let strange kids approach your dog, for example, but even one incident of it "accidentally" happening is too much. People are focusing on telling you what not to do because you keep coming here and posting about your dog snapping at children and that is a very dangerous situation. Preventing it from happening ever, even once, is critical and needs to happen before you can start working on more proactive methods. I rarely read this forum and even I have noticed this pattern in your posts. From our perspective, it looks like you're posting because your house is on fire and you want to know how to stop it from happening again. Everyone is telling you that first you need to put out the fire that is raging--call the fire department, grab a fire extinguisher or garden hose, and deal with the crisis. But you want to focus on maybe changing to a flame-retardant siding or something so your house is less flammable in general. I'm sympathetic to the fact that it takes some time to learn how to manage a dog with this kind of aggressive behavior. I've had several myself and there was a steep learning curve with my first one. But you've got to do it for everyone's safety, and if you can't do it, you need to find a home that can. You see these snaps as sporadic and accidental, but those of us with experience with this kind of dog see them as a pretty serious failure in management on your part. You don't need to be actively seeking out scary situations for your dog to still be putting her in them way too often. Failing to prevent these situations is effectively the same as seeking them out in terms of stress to your dog and danger to her and the children.
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May 2, 2016 17:47
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Ausrotten posted:we've been telling you to do this Yes and we have been doing this quote:Even your 8 year old son, ignore her. Treats and ignore. Treats and ignore. If she wants to interact, she will come up to interact. and she DOES come up to interact, like often, like I've said. And I have been asking for advice on handling that interaction *which she is initiating*, and getting "stop forcing her to put up with your kid!" Which ... I'm not doing. This is the part that is unhelpful. I shouldn't have let the girls come up to her at the park. That won't happen again.
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May 2, 2016 18:04
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Abutiu posted:From our perspective, it looks like you're posting because your house is on fire and you want to know how to stop it from happening again. Everyone is telling you that first you need to put out the fire that is raging--call the fire department, grab a fire extinguisher or garden hose, and deal with the crisis. But you want to focus on maybe changing to a flame-retardant siding or something so your house is less flammable in general. I *have* seen her snap quite seriously - when boyfriend's St. Bernard put his face too close to her - and that was different. She froze, she barked, and then she lunged at his nose (and scared him and now he knows to leave her the gently caress alone, and she tolerates his presence). If she were anywhere near that level around kids I'd have her in a different room from them, but she really isn't.
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May 2, 2016 18:13
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oh look advice on how to handle their interactions Ausrotten posted:train your kid how to properly behave around the dog and also how to give her space. on her end, make being around him and interacting with him the greatest thing in the world. when he's around, treats rain from the sky. keep their interactions short and sweet for now. don't correct her for growling even though it does hurt his feelings, otherwise she'll just go straight to biting and i'd guess that's gonna hurt his feelings a lot more. a life less posted:Before you make any brash decisions, everyone - kids, grown-ups and dog - need to chill out for a while. It's typical to really want to interact with the new dog because it's exciting and novel, but the dog really just needs to chill out for a few weeks (or longer) before you really start worrying about hardcore behaviour mod. Fraction posted:I have a fearful/neurotic/neophobic terrier and she takes about a day or two of constant interaction or a week of more sporadic interaction with someone to get used to them pretty much for life. She isn't "acting fearful" - dogs aren't theatrical performers - she IS reacting to this new environment in a fearful way. That she's coming round over a few days doesn't make her less fearful, though it is of course good. you're in serious denial about your dogs behavior and i genuinely hope you pull your head out of your rear end before she bites a kid
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May 2, 2016 18:28
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Maybe the problem is you are treating the dog like it is a small dog and lol nbd. You wouldn't put up with this behavior if you had a German Shepherd or some larger breed, don't put up with that poo poo from a little dog, either. Don't treat it differently because it's small, treat the same it as if it were a 120 lb Akita or a 45 lb lab.
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May 2, 2016 18:32
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pookel posted:I know that even little dogs can do damage, but I don't think a 15-pound Lhasa doing a half-hearted warning snap occasionally when she's pissed off is equivalent to a house on fire. Again, I know I may be misreading, but it seems like more of a "hey! stop that!" early communication than a late response to a lot of stress. Every time you put your dog in the situation where she feels she has to snap to defend herself, she is losing trust in your ability to protect her in scary situations. Don't let strange chldren touch your dog (just a fortnight ago I had to physically step between children and my dogs to prevent them from grabbing them even after I said no). You are responsible for protecting your dog and the more she snaps, the more likely she is TO snap because she learns that it works - it makes the horrible thing (kids trying to touch her) stop. And then if that fails, if someone tries to push the issue, she may well escalate her behaviour from a snap to a bite. Stop trying to push interactions between your son and your dog too. Some dogs don't want to be touched but will come over of their own volition just to hang out nearby. If that's not enough for you then just rehome her to an adult-only home and get a dog that will be OK with being manhandled by kids. Also, even a "half hearted warning snap" can occasionally--accidentally--land. You do not want your dog to have a bite history because you failed to protect her. So stop provoking these situations where she isn't comfortable.
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May 2, 2016 18:42
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pookel posted:I know that even little dogs can do damage, but I don't think a 15-pound Lhasa doing a half-hearted warning snap occasionally when she's pissed off is equivalent to a house on fire. Again, I know I may be misreading, but it seems like more of a "hey! stop that!" early communication than a late response to a lot of stress. ...are you serious? No, your 15-pound dog is not literally as dangerous as a house fire. I used that analogy in an effort to get you to realize that you're getting way ahead of yourself while being way too casual about the immediate danger that her snapping poses. I have a dog who sounds really similar to yours. He snaps as a very early response to stress, with just body language leading up to that warning. Guess what? The reason I have him is because his old owners treated it as casually as you're doing, and he eventually bit two people after months of these kind of warning signs (one was a warning snap that accidentally connected on a small child, the other was an intentional bite). In the 9 years I've had him, he's snapped exactly once, and it was when he was injured and panicking. It isn't that hard to prevent these situations, you just have to think and pay attention to your surroundings and what your dog is telling you. Your dog is less dangerous than other breeds thanks to her small size, but don't kid yourself that she can't cause serious injury to small children in the right circumstances. I know a guy who is permanently blind in one eye thanks to a bite from a Yorkie when he was about 7. It's less likely than with a larger dog, sure, but it can happen and it's irresponsible to gamble on the hope that any bite that occurs won't be serious due to her size.
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May 2, 2016 18:58
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Ausrotten posted:oh look advice on how to handle their interactions quote:train your kid how to properly behave around the dog and also how to give her space. on her end, make being around him and interacting with him the greatest thing in the world. when he's around, treats rain from the sky. keep their interactions short and sweet for now. don't correct her for growling even though it does hurt his feelings, otherwise she'll just go straight to biting and i'd guess that's gonna hurt his feelings a lot more. Doing this quote:I'd likely keep the dog separated from your younger child unless you were directly there supervising, if at all possible. Encourage low-key interactions, and try to emphasize that the kindest thing your son can offer the dog is a gentle, quiet atmosphere while the dog learns to operate within your new family. Most nervous or anxious dogs want nothing more than to be ignored when they're not sure of themselves. Reinforce your son for ignoring as much as you can, coupled with low key and gentle treats (if the dog is okay with it -- encouraging a dog to take treats when it's fearful can intensify fearful behaviour, so don't rush to this point). Doing this quote:I really like rewarding good behaviour from dogs with a relief of stress. If the dog is mingling around the kid but keeping her cool, mark and reward with a treat tossed across the floor in the opposite direction. This allows the dog to increase distance, it engages the dog to chase/play, and it builds positive food-based associations. Forgot about this one. Thanks for the reminder, this sounds really useful. quote:Imo best thing would be to say that the kids do not approach her at all for at least another week. Let them carry treats on themselves at all times, and if she approaches them they can drop a treat in front of her - meaning less pressure as they aren't leaning in, getting in her space etc. It's hard to explain to kids that they can't handle and touch the new thing but she sounds stressed out, and a stressed dog can escalate to biting even if the kids back off when growling if they are still coming back a little while later to try again. Did this, the kids are well trained. They let her approach, they don't bother her. If she shows teeth or gets tense or growls or anything, they leave her alone. They don't stare into her eyes. They don't pet the top of her head. The younger one doesn't try to pet her at all, except very rarely and cautiously when she approaches him. Etc. I asked for advice, took advice, used advice, posted an update and got torn a new rear end in a top hat because people assume I'm doing things that I'm *not doing*. I find this confusing, but whatever.
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May 2, 2016 20:14
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She shouldn't be put in the situation where she is showing her teeth and growling at your children why don't you understand this
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May 2, 2016 20:31
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pookel posted:If she shows teeth or gets tense or growls or anything, they leave her alone. 
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May 2, 2016 20:35
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Wow that rescue did a good job matching the dog.
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May 2, 2016 20:43
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pookel posted:I asked for advice, took advice, used advice, posted an update and got torn a new rear end in a top hat because people assume I'm doing things that I'm *not doing*. I find this confusing, but whatever. You find this confusing because you are doing these things, you just don't realize that you're doing them. I'm actually a bit horrified to learn that your dog is actually growling and showing her teeth at your kids, even though that is normally a good thing (in the sense that your dog is communicating; it still shouldn't be happening often). I assumed your dog was like my dog that I described in my last post, who was punished for growling so never does it and escalates right to snapping if body language isn't enough to warn people off. The fact that your dog does growl in at least some situations and is still escalating to snapping tells me that things are probably worse than I thought. Each situation is unique, but there are some things that are never acceptable. A dog that frequently snarls, snaps or growls at children and is still around them is one of those always unacceptable things (and even if we assume your dog has only growled or snapped at each child you've mentioned one single time, that's still frequent given the time frame--and it's clear from your posts that she's growling and snapping a lot more than once). I know it's hard to deal with aggression when you're attached to the dog and not really experienced with this kind of problem and all that. It's easy to minimize the problem and hope it isn't that bad. But that's steering right towards disaster. You're not doing your kids or your dog any favors by minimizing this like you are. Your dog isn't a bad dog, but she needs your help, and you're failing to give it. And your kids are good kids, but they're kids, and they need your protection, and you're also failing to give that. It shouldn't be your dog's responsibility to chase the kids off by growling or showing her teeth--at that point, it's already gone too far and it's scary for both parties. You need to really change how you allow your dog to interact with all children, including your own.
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May 2, 2016 21:35
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Reactive dogs carepost ahoy! This is mainly directed at pookel but can be generalized to anyone with a reactive dog. Yes you hosed up by pushing her too hard too fast and minimalizing pretty severely aggressive behavior but you don't have a time machine to go back and not do that so all you can do now is try to fix it the best you can. First, you need to repair your relationship with your dog. Have some happy fun times with her teaching her silly tricks or taking her to an obedience class or a lot of one on one relaxed walks (where you won't run into kids). Just something to build up your relationship and get her trust back and have her think of you as "that fun person with the treats yay" rather than "that person who makes me interact with scary kids I don't like". Second, she needs her own safe space. Somewhere she can go where she knows with complete certainty no kids are going to come to try to pet her. In your case a nice cozy covered crate somewhere out of the way would be good, with your kids being absolutely clear on the fact they are not to disturb her when she's in her room relaxing. Third, you need to find her trigger(s). Since you're a new dog owner and don't really know how to read dog body language I would suggest finding a vet behaviorist in your area to do an assessment to help you figure it out. When your dog tenses up and goes to snap, what has changed from before when she was okay? Is it them looking at her? Approaching her? Reaching out to pet? Simply existing? Now here's the hard part: once you figure out her trigger and have a good relationship built up with her, you need to work on minimalizing or eliminating her exposure to it entirely then start counterconditioning in tiny baby steps. Let's say you find out her trigger is the kid reaching to pet. Start with her in a room with a kid with the kid completely ignoring her and stuff her full of treats. Once she's reliably calm and fine with the kid existing near her then have the kid look at her and repeat then build up to the kid approaching. If she growls or snaps at any point you need to go back a step. You cannot rush this. The key here is to keep her below threshold. You absolutely do not want to push her to the biting stage here, you want to slowly expose her to her triggers while she's still calm and relaxed so she starts associating what was formerly scary with happy treats time. It helps to find a behavior that's incompatible with what you don't want her to do as well, you said she tenses up and freezes before she snaps, so recognize when the freeze is happening or about to happen and have her walk away a few steps or do a trick that involves moving around so she physically cannot tense up. When she does what you ask her to do instead of freezing, growling, and snapping throw a party and stuff her full of treats. If she's not into treats a tug toy or throwing a ball works too. Eventually she'll start offering that behavior on her own instead of reacting. It is absolutely not going to happen overnight, for me it took two years. A really good command to teach is a "look at me" command. It's real easy to do and has saved the rear end of many a reactive dog owner. If you manage to catch something that'll trigger your dog before they see it, ask them to look at you and keep looking at you till the trigger has passed. So if you're out on a walk and you see kids, I would tell her to look at you so she doesn't focus on the kids and get stressed and upset, then pick her up till the kids are gone so they don't rush up to her and try to pet her. I use this one as my incompatible behavior for my leash reactive dog and now he automatically looks at me when we see other dogs. I would also suggest having dog treats stashed all over your house like some weird dog treat squirrel so you can reward whenever you catch her not reacting or doing some counterconditioning work when a situation arises that may lead to her snapping. You absolutely cannot half-rear end this. During this process you can't allow her to get into a situation that will push her over threshold into snapping or you'll just make it harder on yourself. It is a lot of work and not really fun for you at all at the beginning stages because it requires so much management and it'll seem like zero progress is being made. Just keep at it and her little dog brain will eventually rewire itself but it can take years before that happens. She may never be openly friendly to children but all we want here is for her to be neutral and not aggressive for her sake and yours.
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May 3, 2016 03:28
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I can't believe all you guys posted so many words when the answer for every single problem, from the guy moving to wash state and wanting a guard dog to the person wanting their dog to find their toddler, is Maremma Sheepdog. Sheesh guys. Any rate an Update! We've been going to the training sessions, and while I was initially skeptical, they have been going very well. The funny part is, I'm terrible at it but my dog is fantastic. Molly (the 11lb terr-huahua) learned Look, Leave it, and sit (she knew this). Look and Leave it were worth the price of admission and have made a world of difference. She would get nervous outside if the neighbor or the neighbor's dog would come outside, but with a simple Leave it and a treat, she just goes about her business. We are now working on break and down. She would know break, except for me. I'm terrible at remembering to say it before giving the treat. I'm working on it. My question is Down. She doesn't know it and I can't seem to get her there. The problem is she won't lower herself from sit to chase the treat. If she thinks her butt will leave sit...she just gives up going after the treat and goes back into a sit. My ideas are to get better treats and to place her at the top of some steps so I can really get her down. Good ideas? Suggestions? Edit: what else can I call it other than "down" we use down for jumping and begging. Lay doesn't roll off the tongue and Laydown may be confusing? thoughts? Kiss Kiss Bang Bang fucked around with this message at 14:14 on May 4, 2016 |
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May 4, 2016 14:12
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Kiss Kiss Bang Bang posted:I can't believe all you guys posted so many words when the answer for every single problem, from the guy moving to wash state and wanting a guard dog to the person wanting their dog to find their toddler, is Maremma Sheepdog. Sheesh guys. "Platz" is a moderately common cue for a down (place in German). It's mostly heard in bite sports, but it could work. I'd just use "off" as your get-off-me cue and down for a real down, but you may not want to switch now. Down can be a hard one for tiny dogs. I recommend three things. First, sit on the ground and bend your knee slightly -- lure under your leg. Second, reward for micro-improvements. Holding off on rewarding until you get a down could very well mean your dog never gets the treat and gets confused & frustrated. Offer the treat for simply following the lure for increasing distances to communicate that, yes, you actually want the dog to follow the lure. Don't worry about actually getting a down yet, but get a dog that confidently follows the lure wherever you move it. Third, work on a mat. The cold, hard ground may be too much of an aversive for a tiny and sensitive dog. You can also capture a down since dogs do inevitably lie down, but I've not had to do that yet.
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May 4, 2016 15:13
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a life less posted:You can also capture a down since dogs do inevitably lie down, but I've not had to do that yet. Just amusing random thing. I tried this with my 2nd tiny dog cause he didn't really like the 'under the leg' method as much as my first (signs of previous abuse so very cautious in general), and he was much easier to 'capture' than lure for than my first. It just ended up really confusing him like, he'd just get up and sit by me looking at me going "hey random treats!! yay!! MOREMOREMORE!!". And I'd ignore him til he gave up and laid down again (he likes to do facing away from me like he's guarding me) and I'd treat him the moment he did and it'd just go round and round. I ended up just going with the lure and he got over his hesitation with it and now he knows under (crawling through things) etc but it was just hilarious to me.
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May 4, 2016 15:28
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I just want to say that this thread made me super loving paranoid, and I've spent the last two days watching my dog and my children very closely. When she was with the older kid, I watched for signs of tension, ears going back, panting, yawning, etc. I watched her tail (up and wagging, mostly). I noted that she went to him eagerly and calmly, and usually rolled over (with floppy paws and a look of total relaxation) when she lay down next to him and he wanted to rub her belly. When they played tug, her growls were playful and she was attentive to him (like paying attention to not catching his hand when she grabbed for the toy). Last night when I went to tuck him in, she followed me and jumped up on the bed next to him and rubbed her head against him for pets (she would look up at him plaintively if he stopped, then relax when he resumed). I pointed all these things out to him, too - to watch for little signs of discomfort and give her space whenever she needed it. She does definitely choose not to be petted sometimes: she will get up and walk to the other side of the couch, and we leave her alone then. This morning I took her for a walk and then she cuddled with me on the couch, and he came over and talked to her (she was still relaxed and cuddly at this point) and he reached his hand to pet her, and she showed some teeth and went "grr" so he backed off and she laid her head back down on me. I petted her for a while, and then she jumped off me and went over and lay next to him and flopped her tail over his keyboard. With the younger son, she seems reasonably relaxed, but likes to be at least couple feet away from him most of the time (sometimes she comes over to sniff him, and she jumps on him and licks him once in a while, like when we get home and she's excited - but even at these times he doesn't try to pet her because he knows she doesn't want him to). He mostly ignores her except to comment to me on how cute she is, and sometimes he throws toys for her when she's feeling playful. He tends to be a messy eater and she likes to be nearby when he eats, hoping for crumbs. One time when he got hurt and screamed, she ran over and sniffed at him and licked him and looked at me with what seemed to my novice eyes to be concern. I'm watching ears, tail, body language, tension vs. relaxation, eyes. I have not seen any other signs of fear or anxiety, except one time we saw two big black garbage bags on the sidewalk and she was super freaked out and barked at them. I am not putting her in situations she doesn't like. She has safe spaces to go to (she runs to her kennel on the couple occasions I've raised my voice - when I caught her on the dining table). The kids know that dogs don't like hugs, and to never make her feel trapped, and to wait for her to approach them, not the other way around. They know not to stare at her, and that sometimes she needs space and peace and quiet. They don't try to lure her to them or aggressively coax her. Is there anything in all of this that seems problematic? I could tell my oldest never to approach her when she's on my lap, but the thing is, 90% of the time when he does that, she likes it. If you guys with more experience think it's important, though, I'll tell him to just never to do it. He can deal with it. On another topic, I've spent a lot of time in the last month giving her treats the second she lies down, and she doesn't seem to be doing it more often or purposely at me. I'm not sure that's working (to teach her "down," as someone here suggested) but I'm willing to be patient.
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May 4, 2016 17:13
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a life less posted:"Platz" is a moderately common cue for a down (place in German). It's mostly heard in bite sports There is something so hysterical about this that I'm going to use it. Thank you for the suggestions, I'll give them a try.
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May 4, 2016 17:23
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Kiss Kiss Bang Bang posted:There is something so hysterical about this that I'm going to use it. Thank you for the suggestions, I'll give them a try. Makes me think of: quote:plotz
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May 4, 2016 17:29
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pookel posted:I just want to say that this thread made me super loving paranoid, and I've spent the last two days watching my dog and my children very closely. When she was with the older kid, I watched for signs of tension, ears going back, panting, yawning, etc. I watched her tail (up and wagging, mostly). I noted that she went to him eagerly and calmly, and usually rolled over (with floppy paws and a look of total relaxation) when she lay down next to him and he wanted to rub her belly. When they played tug, her growls were playful and she was attentive to him (like paying attention to not catching his hand when she grabbed for the toy). Last night when I went to tuck him in, she followed me and jumped up on the bed next to him and rubbed her head against him for pets (she would look up at him plaintively if he stopped, then relax when he resumed). I pointed all these things out to him, too - to watch for little signs of discomfort and give her space whenever she needed it. She does definitely choose not to be petted sometimes: she will get up and walk to the other side of the couch, and we leave her alone then. nah dog, sounds like things are going rad. Sorry we got so in your face!
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May 4, 2016 19:22
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"pookel posted:he reached his hand to pet her, and she showed some teeth and went "grr" so he backed off and she laid her head back down on me.  how do you still not understand that him petting her is a situation she doesn't likeHow do you still not understand that this is precisely the situation you are supposed to be preventing Ausrotten fucked around with this message at 19:33 on May 4, 2016 |
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May 4, 2016 19:29
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Pookel for someone who thinks they know a whole lot about dog body language you do seem awfully hellbent on letting your dog snap and growl at your children We have given you advice and you're too much of a loving moron to follow it. Goonspeed.
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May 4, 2016 19:29
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Do you have a head injury
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May 4, 2016 19:29
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wtftastic posted:nah dog, sounds like things are going rad. Sorry we got so in your face! Is this serious? I can't tell. Do small dogs just growl/show teeth easier? When pookel had originally posted about it, I thought it sounded pretty reasonable because my two dogs also will show their teeth/growl a bit with no warning if they remotely might not like something. But if you respond appropriately, they're immediately back to wagging their tails and being super relaxed and happy. When people freaked out about the post, I started looking for more signals and talking to my husband about us potentially not treating them appropriately, but we were kind of not sure what else to do. I guess an easy example is that one of my dogs freaks the gently caress out if there's something under the blankets moving (she sleeps on our bed). So if you're getting into bed and you start to put your feet under the covers and they get just even slightly too close to her, she'll start growling/showing her teeth. But if you then go: "It's ok -name-." (and sometimes add in a scratch where she likes) she'll just come to you and nuzzle with you.
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May 4, 2016 19:35
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Rurutia posted:Do small dogs just growl/show teeth easier? yes, in that people allow it to continue happening when it's a small dog when its a large dog the fact that this is completely unacceptable behavior manages to breaks through the dense wall of stupidity that somehow makes you think having a dog who growls and snaps at you over minor poo poo is ok
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May 4, 2016 19:42
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Ausrotten posted:yes, in that people allow it to continue happening when it's a small dog Ok, so how do you train it out? I redirect (as I said) and (2 years later) she just does low effort growls now. We avoid known triggers, but it's not 100%. I don't know, my husband grew up with tons of big dogs (8-9 at a time) and he doesn't think it's OK, but he also doesn't think it's a big deal.
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May 4, 2016 19:47
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you use counter conditioning to help her over come her fear so she no longer feels like she needs to growl at you
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May 4, 2016 19:51
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Ausrotten posted:you use counter conditioning to help her over come her fear so she no longer feels like she needs to growl at you That's what the redirecting is about (treats are involved as well, but she's really big into scratches and cuddles in bed). Idk if we're thinking of different things, but she's literally relaxed and just going "guhhhh" in a really soft voice now. We haven't had a snapping or biting incident in the years we've had either of them. I'll be straight with yall. I don't consider myself dumb, but I def think I don't understand how to implement a lot of suggestions here to the same quality as seems to be expected and I'm wondering if it's cause I'm so much less experienced. Does that mean I should take my dogs back to their rescue? I don't know, it's kind of concerning now since I'm pregnant. This whole thing is making me freak out to be honest. We've never had an incident with our dogs (snaps OR bites) and both of them had a lot of fear stuff going on when we first adopted them. We do a lot of work managing their environment and counter conditioning (look and treat) and we were going to keep doing that with the baby. But I've always seen growls and showing teeth as communication about what to avoid and what they're not comfortable with at the moment - which can change depending on mood and temperament. I know at least in the beginning they won't have access to the baby at all and it'll just rain treats when they're in the same room as him. But what about when the baby starts crawling? I'll have them in their separate pens/rooms at all times? Is there any circumstance they should be allowed to interact at all?
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May 4, 2016 20:02
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Ausrotten posted:you use counter conditioning to help her over come her fear so she no longer feels like she needs to growl at you Also removal of guarded resource. But it should be used in conjunction with a proper training protocol (check out Mine! by J. Donaldson plus plenty of resources in this thread). My chihuahua was a resource guarder when I got her. It took some time but she learned that other things in her area weren't so bad, and growling got her promptly placed on the floor or in another room. Or if it's not classical resource guarding, as far as I'm concerned, if something is bothering the dog, the dog should learn to remove itself from the situation. It doesn't get to kick up a fuss and demand that the bothersome thing stop. This can be done kindly and without fear or intimidation -- it would not be acceptable behaviour in my house.
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May 4, 2016 20:06
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Rurutia posted:That's what the redirecting is about (treats are involved as well, but she's really big into scratches and cuddles in bed). Idk if we're thinking of different things, but she's literally relaxed and just going "guhhhh" in a really soft voice now. We haven't had a snapping or biting incident in the years we've had either of them. If this is something you actually are worried about, pay a professional. Get a trainer, work on it.
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May 4, 2016 20:07
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a life less posted:Also removal of guarded resource. But it should be used in conjunction with a proper training protocol (check out Mine! by J. Donaldson plus plenty of resources in this thread). Yeah this isn't what's going on. When she's resource guarding, I can tell because it only happens when her brother tries to come on the bed, and she has a particular stance. In that case, I hunt for whatever she's decided to hide in the sheets and make her put it somewhere else. quote:Or if it's not classical resource guarding, as far as I'm concerned, if something is bothering the dog, the dog should learn to remove itself from the situation. It doesn't get to kick up a fuss and demand that the bothersome thing stop. This can be done kindly and without fear or intimidation -- it would not be acceptable behaviour in my house. I agree with this. How do I teach her to remove herself? She does this on her own for most things (she's a princess in many ways), but the bed is her FAVORITE place in the world and the only time she willingly removed herself was the one night when I was thrashing in my sleep cause I was having a night terror (according to my husband).
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May 4, 2016 20:09
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wtftastic posted:If this is something you actually are worried about, pay a professional. Get a trainer, work on it. We did, we have a behaviorist we've worked with for a couple years now. Her expectations seem lower than yalls too tbh, she doesn't see an issue with the growling as communication and was the one who taught us the strategy for counter conditioning and for appropriate responses. Does this mean I should get someone else?
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May 4, 2016 20:10
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I don't know of a protocol to show the dog you want her to remove herself, but I'd probably do my best to try to catch her being good. Stash kibble in jars around the house and mark and treat if you ever see her move instead of initiate conflict. Meanwhile you can build value for hanging out in her crate, away from others who she may be concerned will bother her, so it's a more attractive option to sleep. I'd keep a crate nearby your bed so you can scoop her up and toss her in (again, without anger or strong emotion) if she acts inappropriately. Having the crate nearby will be for your convenience so you don't have to wander around your house half-asleep to place her in another room, so you'll be more inclined to address the issue as soon as it happens. I don't think "making her remove the thing she's guarding" is going to be effective.
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May 4, 2016 20:16
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| # ? Jun 5, 2024 19:46 |
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growling IS worthwhile communication but the goal should be working towards a place where she no longer is reactive towards her triggers. while you may be cognizant of her triggers and know how to avoid them, a toddler isn't going to be so it really should be addressed sooner rather than later
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May 4, 2016 20:17
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