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So I can't speak to DW viability or whatever but new all-turret meta seems pretty busted. I got something like 400+ kills on Hotline Day 1 last night and a similar performance on Day 2. You can pretty much spend the whole heist yacking as the turrets clear all the spawn points, while I just ran around occasionally refreshing them as necessary. I'm not sure what I'd do to tweak the skill but it needs something.
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May 2, 2016 02:06
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Mendrian posted:So I can't speak to DW viability or whatever but new all-turret meta seems pretty busted. I got something like 400+ kills on Hotline Day 1 last night and a similar performance on Day 2. You can pretty much spend the whole heist yacking as the turrets clear all the spawn points, while I just ran around occasionally refreshing them as necessary. I've been thinking that it's an issue with quantity. I'd tone down the total you can carry down to 4 and go from there. I love what they are capable of, but I'd rather people have to watch over their limited supply of them instead and setting and forgetting them.
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May 2, 2016 02:41
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Well, I'm glad other people are smart enough not to start sprinting again until the reload animation is entirely done but I never have been and I don't intend to start. 
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May 2, 2016 02:46
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Metalocalypse posted:I've been thinking that it's an issue with quantity. I'd tone down the total you can carry down to 4 and go from there. I love what they are capable of, but I'd rather people have to watch over their limited supply of them instead and setting and forgetting them. Yeah for sure. I mean it mostly becomes a question of what the purpose of the turret even is. If it's to cover a flank or blindspot - particularly useful on some of the really brutal maps where cops can spawn in almost any direction or where a spawn point is very close to the active play area, like the Diamond - then limiting the quantity will help to thin cop numbers in a specific area without necessarily trivializing the map. Otoh it's going to still be a sticking point on very mobile maps, where the turrets become useless, or on smaller maps with chokepoints, where quantity won't really be a limiting quality to speak of. I could totally see an argument to keep the 6-turret meta as it is but it would have to largely replace your own weapons, reducing a turret engineer to just his turrets as the primary way of clicking cops. Reduce # of turrets and maybe even increase the cost to place them. But give me a remote control that lets me jump into one of them whenever I want.
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May 2, 2016 02:48
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I'd say you can cut it down to 2 per person with how ridiculous they are right now.
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May 2, 2016 02:50
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If you have the shield knockdown skill, do your turrets knock down shields?
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May 2, 2016 02:59
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SymmetryrtemmyS posted:If you have the shield knockdown skill, do your turrets knock down shields? Not that I've seen, no. But the best defense against shields for turrets right now is just to set two across from each other so that no matter which way the shield faces, one of the turrets will kill him.
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May 2, 2016 03:00
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Mendrian posted:turret meta 
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May 2, 2016 03:13
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I know, what a time to be alive.
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May 2, 2016 03:15
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Envy me and my sweet Mac-10 bayonet   Also whatever the hell's going on here. 
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May 2, 2016 03:18
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That's a sweet bayonet. I love the melee bugs!
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May 2, 2016 03:48
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Zigmidge posted:That's a sweet bayonet. I love the melee bugs! Yeah, but is it as cool as the invincible cop car/chopper hybrid I ran into on the next job? 
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May 2, 2016 04:03
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Sentries are currently the most powerful weapon in the game by far. They are the biggest problem I have with the beta.
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May 2, 2016 04:07
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PSA: the flamethrower counts as an automatic gun. Go hog wild with that.
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May 2, 2016 04:08
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UnknownMercenary posted:PSA: the flamethrower counts as an automatic gun.  well poo poo, time for a flamethrower build today
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May 2, 2016 04:16
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Ripper Swarm posted:Yeah, but is it as cool as the invincible cop car/chopper hybrid I ran into on the next job? Sokol loves it so much he ran a dagger through his palm. 
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May 2, 2016 04:18
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UnknownMercenary posted:PSA: the flamethrower counts as an automatic gun. Well gently caress. This beta is the gift that keeps on giving.
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May 2, 2016 04:18
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UnknownMercenary posted:PSA: the flamethrower counts as an automatic gun. No loving way.  Edit: does the capstone do anything for it since it doesn't deal bonus headshot damage? watho fucked around with this message at 04:25 on May 2, 2016 |
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May 2, 2016 04:22
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watho posted:No loving way. Well... Cops have unique headshot multipliers, and flamethrowers can crit. I would not be shocked if the flamethrower can do bonus damage with that skill.
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May 2, 2016 04:34
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watho posted:No loving way. I don't have any concrete numbers on it but it definitely feels like I'm killing cloakers faster even without critting.
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May 2, 2016 04:50
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The flame is purity, the flame is power. The next weapon character pack will likely be a a straight up Dark Souls sort of parody mask and maybe like a secondary mini flamer so you could make a LMG/Fire build. Well, I don't mind turrets finding a less OP niche if they likely do get touched down from the beta, because their entire issue before this was that they were useless to begin with in an ever growing world of DLC guns. What matters right now is how fun setting up a general killzone with them is and see if their current build could neutralize a Turret Van in something like bank. Crabtree fucked around with this message at 07:12 on May 2, 2016 |
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May 2, 2016 07:09
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It's not like I want to see sentries back where they were because where they were was dogshit. They couldn't compete with more ammo for guns which were better for killing cops in the first place. The beauty of six turrets is that even if they're less good at killing cops than I am, there's six of them and one of me. So some happy middle ground between six and two would be ideal.
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May 2, 2016 07:43
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Maybe you could split the +4 turrets between two separate high tier 4 skills so that you would have to double dip to get maximum turret. You're still doubling your pleasure either way with just one giving you 4 turrets, but it allows the pure turret-man to go whole hog if they're that greedy for 6.
Crabtree fucked around with this message at 08:34 on May 2, 2016 |
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May 2, 2016 08:30
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Body Expertise doesn't seem to increase the damage of the flamethrower at all.
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May 2, 2016 08:36
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I tried the beta out last night for the first time after drinking like a metric gently caress ton of lager. I don't know what happened, but I do remember saying the following several times. 1. Using the AA12 with the knockback skill is loving hilarious and a total waste of ammo. 2. This is the worst build ever I miss my old builds because they were perfect.
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May 2, 2016 11:28
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Initial impressions of the beta: Knockback is OP; Shields are just completely trivialized with that skill. I thought there was a skill that would allow you to carry two loot bags at a time but I wasn't seeing it in any of the trees; was I mistaken, or am I blind? Ran into a fun bug on Cook Off where the Captain spawned three bags in, but then even once we ran him off, his effects persisted. Ended up doing an additional seventeen bags under those conditions. And I wasn't being sarcastic; since I was running with a solid team, that was actually a lot of fun to deal with, and I'd be interesting in having that as a Goonmod mutator.
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May 2, 2016 17:29
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There are certain skills that are still being worked on and thus are unavailable for the beta.
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May 2, 2016 17:31
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Skunkrocker posted:after drinking like a metric gently caress ton of lager. I don't know what happened You spent almost 10 minutes straight going on about british television networks.
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May 2, 2016 17:47
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Zigmidge posted:You spent almost 10 minutes straight going on about british television networks. I was laughing.
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May 2, 2016 18:11
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hellfaucet posted:I was laughing. 
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May 2, 2016 18:14
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May 2, 2016 18:33
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hellfaucet posted:I was laughing. At least somebody was.
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May 2, 2016 18:36
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Drunkrocker best Rocker as far as I'm concerned. I distinctly remember giggling at everything you said throughout Rats. "I hate this beta, I hate this loving update, I love you guys." (Paraphrased)
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May 2, 2016 18:57
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Kumaton posted:I hate this beta skunkrocker has the wrong opinion again i see
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May 2, 2016 18:59
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so ammo nerf. The flat 40% is, despite probably being okay in concept, bad in execution because it penalizes some weapons way harder than others, and then you combine that with fully loaded being a top tier skill in Enforcer and getting it is a lot more of an investment than it used to be (aka a happy bonus on your way to ICTV) ...well, it all equates out to Overkill, unintentionally or not, doubling down on high damage, single shot weapons as the ultimate option. As if the AMR DMR wasn't top tier enough. now I love the AMR DMR, so that's fine, but I'm trying to think of a good solution for people who like auto weapons, and/or people who think a flamethrower grabbing 4 ammo per box is ridiculous, but they all tend to revolve around "quit pretending fully loaded should be a top tier skill" and then the question is what to put there instead and  basically I want autos to be legit again without being ridiculously ammo-positive "never ever touch a bag again" so I dunno. A bonus to pickup for all auto weapons seems just as arbitrary as the flat 40% hit. Also LMGs are still fine, so it's really the middle ground of autos that needs the most help. Maybe just manually tweaking pickup rates? Psion fucked around with this message at 19:39 on May 2, 2016 |
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May 2, 2016 19:32
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Sentry guns are great. Maybe dial it back from 6 to 4 though.
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May 2, 2016 19:35
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Mendrian posted:Not that I've seen, no. But the best defense against shields for turrets right now is just to set two across from each other so that no matter which way the shield faces, one of the turrets will kill him. Alternatively, run AP Sentries so that way the shield dies at any angle from one sentry. Edit: Quick number crunch says you've no real reason not to run AP Sentries all day, seeing as they're just 13 out of 120 points. widespread fucked around with this message at 20:42 on May 2, 2016 |
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May 2, 2016 20:40
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Psion posted:so ammo nerf. The flat 40% is, despite probably being okay in concept, bad in execution because it penalizes some weapons way harder than others, and then you combine that with fully loaded being a top tier skill in Enforcer and getting it is a lot more of an investment than it used to be (aka a happy bonus on your way to ICTV) ...well, it all equates out to Overkill, unintentionally or not, doubling down on high damage, single shot weapons as the ultimate option. As if the AMR DMR wasn't top tier enough. Some autos are still in good shape. The Clarion and Valkyria both have zero issues, in my experience. I do think a manual tweak is necessary. I even think one could figure it out largely mathematically. Just account for average accuracy and average shots to kill, and derive pickup rate based on that.
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May 2, 2016 21:05
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widespread posted:Alternatively, run AP Sentries so that way the shield dies at any angle from one sentry. At the moment shield penetration for AP sentries does not work. Long Guide has updated with Birth of Sky information. Important pieces of info ("diff" is a system value that basically makes combat harder- more enemies, longer assaults, etc, up to a maximum of 1):
Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 21:46 on May 2, 2016 |
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May 2, 2016 21:30
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Psion posted:so ammo nerf. The flat 40% is, despite probably being okay in concept, bad in execution because it penalizes some weapons way harder than others, and then you combine that with fully loaded being a top tier skill in Enforcer and getting it is a lot more of an investment than it used to be (aka a happy bonus on your way to ICTV) ...well, it all equates out to Overkill, unintentionally or not, doubling down on high damage, single shot weapons as the ultimate option. As if the AMR DMR wasn't top tier enough. I think them putting Fully Loaded into tier 4 and then just reverting the base rate back to 2%-3% would have fixed most of the problem. The base rate right now is 1%-3.5%, which is really loving garbage and still overwhelmingly favours the high powered guns because they don't feel it as badly. Anything that's not M308 tier or LMG tier for pickups will feel the change to varying degrees. They could have gone back and defined specific pickup rates for certain guns like they did before (see: forcing LMGs to have pickup rates of guns that have a total of 80 ammo) or they could have just lowered the total ammo counts of guns like DMRs and the heavy pistols. There's also no risk/reward to going for ammo boxes any more because player survivability is at an all time high, so they've gone about it by making boxes just worth a lot less, which is also a solution I disagree with.
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May 2, 2016 21:39
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