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I'd honestly rather have frequent polished content than scattershot shallow haphazard content (or blatant cashgrabs disguised as content) like you see in most MMOs.
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May 2, 2016 18:32
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Thunderbro posted:I can't imagine what a nightmare leveling a second character must be, there's almost no replayability at all. While a valid concern in a vacuum if you don't care to see the story again (the good parts, the bad parts, the boring parts...), its effect is heavily minimized in practice by recalling the context that you basically never need to have more than one character. RPers might for RP reasons (and most of the time they can get away with this without actually leveling), super super hardcore raiders or crafters might to get around certain limitations, but for the rest of us? You can do everything on one character, and that's a majorly emphasized part of the game mechanics. You're not locked in to only one combat class, or only two crafts, or anything like that. It kind of renders the concern mostly moot. I mean, I guess it could be an issue if you really want to look different, but would rather go through the story again (either due to enjoying it or due to a martyr complex) than spring for a fantasia, but realistically most people's time/money weighting is such that they'll just drop the cash if they just have to become a catgirl instead of a potato. e: Also, admittedly, going through the story again does have the benefit of being better able to appreciate foreshadowing when you know what's coming up later. It may not be an applicable motivation to everyone, but it's worth noting as relevant at least to some folks. Vil fucked around with this message at 18:46 on May 2, 2016 |
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May 2, 2016 18:44
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ArtIsResistance posted:Yes guy who just completed the main scenario a few weeks ago, you must have a great idea about the longevity and strength of the endgame of FF14 compare to those "official forums spergs" you unofficial forums sperg. Exactly! As someone who just completed the main game OVER A PERIOD OF A YEAR with the experience still fresh in my mind, I am in the perfect position to speak to a new player about the longevity of the game. All those other quotes are making it sound like the game is only playable for like a week. When people talk about longevity, they don't always mean playing for a loving decade. Of course people who have been on since the beginning have run out of stuff to do aside from repeatable quests, but who cares? Hell, the fact that people are still paying for their subscription at that point should say a lot. Look at it this way, at a bare minimum you'd be hard pressed to do everything in the game in a year, even at a poopsock rate. Poopsocking for a year solid is EASILY the content of 4 retail games, and the game plus the subscription for that amount of time is worth it. Will you play it for the rest of your life? Probably not, but who cares? You'll enjoy it for the time that you do play
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May 2, 2016 18:53
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end. game.
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May 2, 2016 18:55
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Yes, there is a point where the game ends and you stop playing. That's called boredom vvv: It has nothing to do with you, I'm just annoyed about people having what seem to be extremely unrealistic expectations out of any single piece of entertainment Sentient Data fucked around with this message at 19:06 on May 2, 2016 |
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May 2, 2016 18:58
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I don't think there are enough goons to pick up my pieces after you just shattered me like that
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May 2, 2016 19:02
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You're right, the game does have a lot of longevity if you do the main story quest at a glacial pace.
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May 2, 2016 19:07
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UglyDucklett posted:Starting about a month after each patch I just log in to chat and play other games in the background. Our whole small fc does it, to us ffxiv is just a chat program with dress up avatars and houses. That costs $60 upfront and another $12-$15 per month. This post is more of an indictment than anything, I think I'll be getting that HW refund. Sentient Data posted:Exactly! As someone who just completed the main game OVER A PERIOD OF A YEAR with the experience still fresh in my mind, I am in the perfect position to speak to a new player about the longevity of the game. All those other quotes are making it sound like the game is only playable for like a week. When people talk about longevity, they don't always mean playing for a loving decade. Of course people who have been on since the beginning have run out of stuff to do aside from repeatable quests, but who cares? Hell, the fact that people are still paying for their subscription at that point should say a lot. I'm hard pressed to do everything because the majority of the game is locked behind hundreds of tedious, linear fetch quests. In other MMOs I like to actually play with other people and do group content instead of having to teleport home and walk 5 minutes, through 3 loading screens, to tell Mom I skipped through the 3 lines of dialogue from the random guy half the world away. Ten times. Also, grinding isn't content, it's the game wasting your time so you don't finish it too quickly. Vil posted:While a valid concern in a vacuum if you don't care to see the story again (the good parts, the bad parts, the boring parts...), its effect is heavily minimized in practice by recalling the context that you basically never need to have more than one character. Play on a different server, use daily/weekly lockouts on different gear, there's lots of good reasons to have alts in most MMOs. Most MMOs also have good and fun leveling experiences with multiple zones and paths you can take so it doesn't get horribly stale. Thunderbro fucked around with this message at 19:18 on May 2, 2016 |
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May 2, 2016 19:13
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Sentient Data posted:Hell, the fact that people are still paying for their subscription at that point should say a lot. Yeah. I don't play this as much as I used to, but when I log in, literally whenever, wherever, I'm still having fun, and I've been playing regularly since late 2014. Thunderbro posted:I'm hard pressed to do everything because the majority of the game is locked behind hundreds of tedious, linear fetch quests. pre-HW MSQ is the worst part of the game easily.
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May 2, 2016 19:13
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There's probably a good 100 hours or so of main story quest content to do, some of which is well written. If you take the time to do some of the obsolete content and participate in the current end game stuff, you can probably get another good 150-200 hours out of it before you're just waiting for the next content patch. To a poopsocker, that's a month or two of playtime. To someone that plays other video games or has other interests, you could be playing the game for a very long time before you ever get to a point where you're doing daily and weekly repeatable content.
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May 2, 2016 19:15
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Thunderbro posted:That costs $60 upfront and another $12-$15 per month. This post is more of an indictment than anything, I think I'll be getting that HW refund. If you're skipping parts of the Main Story Quest, then this game, surprise, is not for you. It happens, move on with your life.
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May 2, 2016 19:16
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Just because a game doesn't have literally infinite content doesn't mean it doesn't have longevity. I've been playing for about a year, several hours a day, and I still have plenty of stuff to do.
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May 2, 2016 19:16
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As someone who has played XIV since ARR launch (and some of 1.0 but that was barely a game so yeah) with just a few months break here and there I feel its the MMO on the market that currently offers the most content. I used to play hardcore with a raiding static clearing all of coil pre HW, now I'm just playing mostly casual due to RL, playing togheter with a couple friends and we do daily stuff togheter such as roulletes, midas normal farm and also some old content for fun and glams. Always feel I have a lot more stuff to do in game then I have time for, so always have to chose every day what content I do, which for me adds a lot of variation. The game has tons of content to do but at midlevels and endgame, it may not be a lot of up to date hardcore sperg content to do but for the more cuasl player there is tons. However at same time I do agree the very predictable content updates are getting stale, and I feel SE should mix it up a bit instead of every 3 months either a new 24man casual or a 8man normal/hard raid with occasional trials added in. Still this is the MMO I can recommend the most to any new person looking for one, just isn't a lot of other options out there atm that's gonna compare for the overall experience. I'm fairly sure the game will just keep on growing as is now, but like mentioned before I feel SE do need to change things up for future patches.
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May 2, 2016 19:16
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I had gently caress all else going on in my life and blasted through it, and it still took about 200 hours. I would hardly characterize it as bad value for money. Yeah, the endgame treadmill is kind of dull, but if you just mainline the MSQ to get there, you'll have another couple hundred hours of content to maybe take a look at before you're out of stuff to do besides bemoan the state of capped gear tokens. If you finish playing and get bored, who cares? Games should be fun, and you should stop when they're not.
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May 2, 2016 19:19
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It's okay to not like a thing and post about it imoSentient Data posted:vvv: It has nothing to do with you, I'm just annoyed about people having what seem to be extremely unrealistic expectations out of any single piece of entertainment Sorry my man I now understand everything because I remember back when Diablo 3 came out and goons were complaining that they only played 200 hours and were trying to get a refund off blizzard gently caress people. I bet they all ended up buying Reaper of Souls too
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May 2, 2016 19:25
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Truga posted:pre-HW MSQ is the worst part of the game easily. The worst part of the game being the first 200 hours, more than a full week, is miserable game design. Worse is being forced to do it all. Pretty much all of FFXIV's competitors give you a way to rapidly accelerate or outright boost past the pre-expansion content because they realize that the old stuff is outdated and less polished. Kwyndig posted:If you're skipping parts of the Main Story Quest, then this game, surprise, is not for you. It happens, move on with your life. You're right, it isn't for me. I don't like being forced to read MMO writing for several hundred hours before being able to do content with other human beings. I'll also tell you that any MMO that's done metrics on how long people spend reading quest text figured out very quickly that the vast majority of people skip through almost all of it. Maybe we just want to play a video game and don't give a flying gently caress what one-dimensional character Minfilia has to say about video game things. ArtIsResistance posted:It's okay to not like a thing and post about it imo Thunderbro fucked around with this message at 19:33 on May 2, 2016 |
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May 2, 2016 19:31
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The first year and a half of ARR was pretty good because they kept adding in new cool systems. Now they're adding in garbage like diadem and verminion and the new contender for the trashcan, deep dungeon. Where's our surprise duty roulette? Hunts? Treasure maps? Sightseeing log? Challenge log? They had a lot of great ideas that they introduced, stuff we now take for granted. I can't think of a system they've added in 3.0 that was as game changing and also interesting as the stuff they put in in ARR. HW has smash hits like red scrips, collectables (arguably a better way to level, still soured by the extremely large material cost spike they did between ARR and HW), mentors and orchestrion. One of the few good things they added was house sharing so you could teleport to your friends' houses.
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May 2, 2016 19:31
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Choyi posted:I'm fairly sure the game will just keep on growing as is now, but like mentioned before I feel SE do need to change things up for future patches. Well, they're trying that now I guess. Diadem was a miss, but it was something outside of the dungeon/raid thing for once. Then again, they did deliver exactly what they said they would, and *exactly* what the old MMO guard was asking for, so I can't even honestly say they failed at it.  Really though, I hope the endless dungeon is fun. We lost 1 dungeon per 3 months to get diadem/verminion and similar crapshoot. They should start making something fun with that budget. Just straight more trials would be better at this point, trials are almost always fun.
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May 2, 2016 19:33
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FF14's only hook is the story. That's why you can't skip it. Sorry you didn't know that before you paid for it, but they're not going to let people skip the only thing that really makes the game unique in the market.
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May 2, 2016 19:40
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Aphrodite posted:they're not going to let people skip the only thing that really makes the game unique in the market. This is dumb though, why should they care why you play their game lmbo
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May 2, 2016 19:41
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Because delaying exposing the bad endgame is in their favor financially.
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May 2, 2016 19:43
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It is a Final Fantasy game before it is an MMO. Story is core to Final Fantasy games. Thus, story is core to this game. How is this hard to understand?
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May 2, 2016 19:45
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Aphrodite posted:Because delaying exposing the bad endgame is in their favor financially. Endgame is far better than 2.x MSQ ever will be, I'm sorry you don't like pretty dresses, cool moon dragon and are a silly uplander. Mordiceius posted:It is a Final Fantasy game before it is an MMO. Story is core to Final Fantasy games. Thus, story is core to this game. How is this hard to understand? idc, I'd have played through the story either way, but how does preventing people from skipping the story help the game in any way whatsoever, except make some people quit before they get out of the slog that is titan/garuda buildup? That bullshit enraged even me.
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May 2, 2016 19:49
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Truga posted:Endgame is far better than 2.x MSQ ever will be, I'm sorry you don't like pretty dresses, cool moon dragon and are a silly uplander. People can skip the story though. They can skip all the cutscenes they want.
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May 2, 2016 19:50
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You absolutely cannot skip the running between the far east and west corners of eastern la noscea for an hour straight with next to no content in the speech bubbles, because you can't skip those quests.
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May 2, 2016 19:51
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Mordiceius posted:People can skip the story though. They can skip all the cutscenes they want. Well not all of them but yeah most.
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May 2, 2016 19:52
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Truga posted:You absolutely cannot skip the running between the far east and west corners of eastern la noscea for an hour straight with next to no content in the speech bubbles, because you can't skip those quests. It's almost like intentionally skipping dialogue makes the rest of the experience less enjoyable.
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May 2, 2016 19:53
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Truga posted:You absolutely cannot skip the running between the far east and west corners of eastern la noscea for an hour straight with next to no content in the speech bubbles, because you can't skip those quests. Oh no! You're having to do quests! In an MMO! Oh gently caress. Call the loving police. Let's shut this place down.
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May 2, 2016 19:54
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I read all of that dialogue and I found the constant ping pong across that map dumb anyway. They could easily have shortened that into 2 trips and put the bullshit into sidequests. As they did with HW. e: Thunderbro posted:The worst part of the game being the first 200 hours, more than a full week, is miserable game design. Worse is being forced to do it all. Pretty much all of FFXIV's competitors give you a way to rapidly accelerate or outright boost past the pre-expansion content because they realize that the old stuff is outdated and less polished. Oh come on now, it's nowhere near 200 hours unless you move at a super glacial pace. I got to 50 in just over a month and I took a 2 week break, and wasn't hurrying anywhere, getting 3 classes to ~30 before finally getting one to 50. And as soon as you hit 50, a ton of fun group and solo content opens and you can do the main quest at whatever pace you want. And level 50 content owns. The only thing I'm actually not interested in just running anymore is AK normal and that dumb dragon trial. As for simply skipping content, the game is a literal MMO tutorial all the way up to level 50. And despite that, at 50, there's shitlords who can't even push a button every 10 seconds and end up doing half of their damage with autoattack. I'd rather there not be a way to buy level 50 characters. Truga fucked around with this message at 20:10 on May 2, 2016 |
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May 2, 2016 19:55
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Thinking of and designing new content that genuinely brings something new to the table is hard. That's why a large part of each content patch is largely by the numbers new dungeons raids and story. And usually alongside they have something experimental or new that may or may not actually be good. They've missed more often then hit since HW but I think the random dungeon since it's entirely separate from current progression models could add a lot to the game.
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May 2, 2016 20:11
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When's the first dungeon? I wanna get thrown off my axe-crushing steeze and
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May 2, 2016 20:14
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NT Plus posted:When's the first dungeon? I wanna get thrown off my axe-crushing steeze and 15-17 gives you 3 dungeons to stomp around in
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May 2, 2016 20:15
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Thunderbro is wrong in a lot of ways but his overarching point is right and the levelling experience in ff14 is going to feel miserable to anyone who has played mmo's before. It is not particularly surprising that the majority of subscribers were people who had not played one before. I do find complaints about there not being enough content at endgame to be the biggest god drat joke though. There is a metric ton of content in this game. If you don't want to engage with all of it, that's fine but it doesn't mean it isn't there.
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May 2, 2016 20:15
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Ohtsam posted:since it's entirely separate from current progression models could add a lot to the game. They really need to revamp the whole "doesn't do savage alexander" gear treadmill though. I liked tomes because we had 3 dungeons per patch. Now we're down to 2 exdr things and it's bad. More things need to drop top end stones. If they feel like that's going to make people cap them in a day every time, then time-gate by day and week  NT Plus posted:When's the first dungeon? I wanna get thrown off my axe-crushing steeze and The first 3 dungeons happen back to back, and unlock at MSQ levels 15 16 and 17 Failboattootoot posted:I do find complaints about there not being enough content at endgame to be the biggest god drat joke though. There is a metric ton of content in this game. If you don't want to engage with all of it, that's fine but it doesn't mean it isn't there. 
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May 2, 2016 20:15
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Oh noes someone said they don't like game rabble rabble rabble
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May 2, 2016 20:18
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Hunts dropping lore is a step in the right direction imo. Just having more options for lore than just EXDR would help the endgame grind a lot.
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May 2, 2016 20:19
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And just a quick note, when someone says that a dungeon/primal happens at a level, that just means it's the minimum level for the quest - nearly every dungeon is mandatory as part of the story (hrr bad game design let me skip around too linear), so it's impossible to miss. Almost nobody actually had their grand company or chocobo exactly at level 20, especially with the recent xp boosts that were given to msq quests and the 30% xp bonus ring, but you didn't somehow miss them; you'll get there eventually
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May 2, 2016 20:20
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Panic! at Nabisco posted:Hunts dropping lore is a step in the right direction imo. Just having more options for lore than just EXDR would help the endgame grind a lot. Vath quests also do if you do them on a level 60. Doing just that along with exdr cuts down your days-to-cap from 6 to 5
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May 2, 2016 20:21
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Thunderbro posted:The worst part of the game being the first 200 hours, more than a full week, is miserable game design. Worse is being forced to do it all. Pretty much all of FFXIV's competitors give you a way to rapidly accelerate or outright boost past the pre-expansion content because they realize that the old stuff is outdated and less polished. And I feel it's disingenous to imply that FFXIV somehow doesn't. There is a large amount of crafted i115 gear available to bootstrap people into speeding past content. TPT keeps a stock of level 50 i115 crafted weapons in the FC chest for fresh 50s to grab as soon as they ding, and it's not unreasonable to ask a crafter if they can whip up a set. "But you shouldn't have to ask other people!" Fine:   And that's just the stuff that the game has inherently. Essentially a flat 55% XP bonus until level 25, and 30% from then on until 30, and i90 gear when everything else you're wearing is i45 at best. Furthermore, any tomes earned from then onwards aren't Philo, Myth, or Sold, but straight Poe gear, which if upgraded, will last you until about level 55 HW content. Three tiers of gear, completely cut out of the progression! That's not some small insignificant boost! "But I don't have friends!", who the hell needs friends, use the referral code thread. SwissArmyDruid fucked around with this message at 20:32 on May 2, 2016 |
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May 2, 2016 20:22
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Sentient Data posted:(hrr bad game design let me skip around too linear) Honestly, if anything should stay mandatory, it's the group content. After all, this is an MMO, and as much as goons like to poo poo on pubs, in this game, they're much better than the average MMO player, and I'm pretty sure it's because the game makes you go through some basic group instances and takes a while before it actually starts getting difficult. That said, yeah it's poo poo for DPS classes having to wait a long time on story points, but I don't think that's something SE can fix beyond the "newbie gets priority in queue" thing they allegedly already did.
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May 2, 2016 20:25
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