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Fister Roboto posted:Inner Beast and Fell Cleave could be rolled into one ability, same with Steel Cyclone and Decimate. it's actually silly that they aren't, considering that ninjas and astros have abilities that change with their stances.  My guess would be that's just a 2.0 issue since NIN and AST both came afterward?
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May 2, 2016 22:08
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Fister Roboto posted:Inner Beast and Fell Cleave could be rolled into one ability, same with Steel Cyclone and Decimate. it's actually silly that they aren't, considering that ninjas and astros have abilities that change with their stances. I'd honestly love if this was a thing for WAR. It'd make my hotbars neater to be honest.
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May 2, 2016 22:08
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The FFXIV controller implementation is really drat good outside Verminion and makes it easier to juggle 32-48 abilities a gently caress of a lot easier than KB/M IMO Just need to get used to it and get comfortable with Expanded Hold controls. FFXIV controller implementation really ruined other MMOS for me. Then again so did instant class swapping and a lot of the other quality of life features we all take for granted after playing this game a while.
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May 2, 2016 22:10
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Panic! at Nabisco posted:Okay, I'll take the bait. What's your reasoning on cooldowns all being the same thing? If you simplify they all come down to "make me not die as fast," but in very different ways. That level of simplification is about as useful as complaining about DPS classes because they have too many buttons that do damage in different ways, or that healers have too many buttons that make other people not die. You use a cooldown that makes you regain health proportional to the damage you're doing very differently than you use a short length high mitigation cooldown, for example. This is grognardy as gently caress and I wish I could collapse this but here goes
Most of these are very similar in strength and cooldown and could be pruned down to 2-3 buttons without losing any gameplay. And I've been through the theorycraft poop chute in WoW, increased or self healing is effectively the same as mitigation in terms of stability which is why that game can get away with one of the tanks basically mitigating no damage but self-healing for a ridiculous amount. This also is just purely defensive cooldowns, there are a lot more abilities that could be combined without losing any gameplay except a bloated action bar. Hamsterlady posted:My opinion is that if you like a video game you should purchase and play it, and if you dislike it, you should play a different video game instead, or watch a movie or really do anything else with your time other than play a video game you don't like. I can also talk about it, trigger people real hard, and/or maybe it'll get to a dev and they'll improve things so one day I might like the video game and give them my money. IDK about FFXIV but basically every other big game has at least one dev that reads these forums. The sad thing is that the raids and endgame group stuff look fun but are gated behind ~500 turd quests I don't enjoy so I won't get to play them. Thunderbro fucked around with this message at 22:19 on May 2, 2016 |
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May 2, 2016 22:11
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Like, I guess I can kind of see what you're saying about all cooldowns being the same on warrior, except they certainly don't feel the same when you play the game at 60 in raids and such. Like, lol if you think I'm gonna mitigate tankbusters with bloodbath.
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May 2, 2016 22:17
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The development team is almost entirely Japanese (exception: Koji and maybe the localization teams, and they don't really have a say when it comes to gameplay changes), so it doesn't shock me that they don't really follow anything but Japanese sites, as I doubt their English/German/French is very strong. Reddit has one guy from SE pop in from time to time, but I don't think he does much besides marketing posts, or basic customer service stuff. But hey, if you REALLY want a community team member here or whatever, find a way to contact them and offer to buy them an account.
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May 2, 2016 22:21
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Have you tried running any of the L50 dungeons, trials or raids that aren't strictly required to get to the expansion? They have like 18 months of content releases you can go through as a way to break up the constant questing. A lot of it stays relevant through roulettes and weekly quests! There was more group content at level 50 than there was getting to 50, by far
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May 2, 2016 22:21
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DarkstarIV posted:The development team is almost entirely Japanese (exception: Koji and maybe the localization teams, and they don't really have a say when it comes to gameplay changes), so it doesn't shock me that they don't really follow anything but Japanese sites, as I doubt their English/German/French is very strong. Reddit has one guy from SE pop in from time to time, but I don't think he does much besides marketing posts, or basic customer service stuff. But hey, if you REALLY want a community team member here or whatever, find a way to contact them and offer to buy them an account. There is basically zero chance that Koji is not a goon.
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May 2, 2016 22:24
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Thunderbro posted:I can also talk about it, trigger people real hard, and/or maybe it'll get to a dev and they'll improve things so one day I might like the video game and give them my money. IDK about FFXIV but basically every other big game has at least one dev that reads these forums. Yeah, but also the last two pages of the thread have been ten people saying the same thing over and over again without making any progress convincing other people of their stance and not really saying anything substantially new or interesting with each subsequent post
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May 2, 2016 22:26
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Thunderbro posted:The sad thing is that the raids and endgame group stuff look fun but are gated behind ~500 turd quests I don't enjoy so I won't get to play them. Check back in at 4.0. They've already said explicitly that they were doing away with the quest progression requirement to access the expansion.
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May 2, 2016 22:30
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I've been taking a break from FF (still subbed, mind, because the game is great) and playing WoW instead and boy howdy does it just not compare in terms of quality. I've also got ESO and TOR on my PC right now and touched on Tera and Blade and Soul recently. While they all have merits, none of them come anywhere close to FFXIV int erms of polish, quality and devs showing they actually give a poo poo. If you're considering playing don't let the detractors scare you off, you owe it to yourself to at least give the trial a shot.
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May 2, 2016 22:43
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The Chairman posted:In the end, the draw of FFXIV is that it's an online JRPG, with all that entails (convoluted plots, lots of talking heads, linear story progress), so it comes down to your tolerance for that style of game. You can't hop to endgame immediately, but that's intentional because of the heavy story focus. If that strikes someone as pointless or restrictive, then what's there to do besides shrug and move on? This has generally been my perspective on it, although I can understand why people are frustrated by having to play through the whole of the 2.0-2.55 MSQ to get into the new expansion content. I think it's hilarious that people are STILL kvetching about people using controllers. They work fine, claiming they're awful just makes you look like you don't want to admit that you can't or don't want to figure it out for yourself.
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May 2, 2016 22:48
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Hamsterlady posted:Yeah, but also the last two pages of the thread have been ten people saying the same thing over and over again without making any progress convincing other people of their stance and not really saying anything substantially new or interesting with each subsequent post Probably because like many arguments, online or offline, they're talking past each other with more of an emphasis on "winning" the argument, than on actually learning anything from it. re: cooldowns, having multiple things on different timers opens up various tactical possibilities for when you stack things for major damage reduction, when you use them sequentially for sustained longer-term damage reduction, when you use just one for a moderate tankbuster or to give your healer a bit of a break on trash, which things you'll use frequently (because low cooldown), which things you'll be more selective about using (because more effective but higher cooldown), etc. That said, I do agree that there's significant button bloat, and I'll even grant that some existing cooldowns with similar functions could be combined (though in order to not gently caress up strategies, they'd in some cases have to shorten their cooldown as a result). But the current system has its merits too. I'm really hoping that 4.0 either does some button squishing or has more of an emphasis on traits changing existing buttons, than on new buttons to push. Definitely agreed about Inner Beast/Fell Cleave and Steel Cyclone/Decimate though. While multiple defensive cooldowns can be justified with the tactical options it opens up, things like this really can't. Stone 3 could similarly just as easily have been a trait for Stone 2, for all the more you ever want to use Stone 2 except when you're level synced too low for Stone 3.
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May 2, 2016 22:49
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Tortolia posted:Have you tried running any of the L50 dungeons, trials or raids that aren't strictly required to get to the expansion? They have like 18 months of content releases you can go through as a way to break up the constant questing. A lot of it stays relevant through roulettes and weekly quests! My sub ran out at 49, the HW key I bought from SE proceeded to not work, and I haven't gotten a response to my ticket in more than 3 business days so I'm very close to just doing a chargeback and shuttering the account. Between the problems I've already talked about, the 100+ quest gate I have left to even touch the expansion, and the endgame apparently just being a currency grind I don't think I'll have a lot of fun. Since I know now (this thread does teach people!) that FFXIV has a super heavy story emphasis as one of its core values, and a story that bores me to death, it's not worth it. Hamsterlady posted:Yeah, but also the last two pages of the thread have been ten people saying the same thing over and over again without making any progress convincing other people of their stance and not really saying anything substantially new or interesting with each subsequent post Uh, no? A lot of it's been the generic "DONT POST" or unjustified "UR WORNG" posts that always occur when you give criticisms about someone's precious video games. For people who want a no bad talk space GameFAQs is easy to find. This game has a lot of archaic design flaws and the more I learn about the endgame the more I see it not doing well outside of the current vacuum of subscription MMOs. Vil posted:Probably because like many arguments, online or offline, they're talking past each other with more of an emphasis on "winning" the argument, than on actually learning anything from it. Yeah I mean all of those could be combined into: Huge Damage Reduction, 20% DR, Health + Heal boost. The way Level Sync just blanks out abilities is yet another one of the uniquely dumb design flaws this game has. Other games just scale your stats down. FFXIV is the unique child that blots out 3/4ths of your action bar because apparently somebody gives a lot of shits about low level balance.
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May 2, 2016 23:01
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Truga posted:After all, this is an MMO, and as much as goons like to poo poo on pubs, in this game, they're much better than the average MMO player, and I'm pretty sure it's because the game makes you go through some basic group instances and takes a while before it actually starts getting difficult. Man i dunno what mmos you've ever played but the playerbase in this game is the most talentless bunch of morons ever. Like yeah, they're generally more polite/mature than what you get in WOW, but they're also terrible at the game and proud of it, to the point of actively refusing to take any advice, look up any info, read their tooltips, anything. WOW might have posts of bad players pulling 50% of their dps or tanking the dargon facing the raid, but those people also get booted and mocked. In FFXIV you get banned for telling someone they're only doing 200dps at 60, and the suggestion that maybe they shouldn't just cast blizzard 3 over and over again is met with the whole group going "don't tell them how to play". Re all the discussion about the game being good/bad, the best i can say about it is it's a competent, but very bland and safe mmo. No risks, nothing that might have even the possibility of making someone go "maybe i'm worse than that other guy". I quit playing because the community's terrible and SE are still as bad as they were in the FFXI days regarding cheaters/non-JP playerbase/functional account systems, but i still keep up with patches etc.
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May 2, 2016 23:15
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Fister Roboto posted:Inner Beast and Fell Cleave could be rolled into one ability, same with Steel Cyclone and Decimate. it's actually silly that they aren't, considering that ninjas and astros have abilities that change with their stances. This is a good post. Thunderbro posted:This is grognardy as gently caress and I wish I could collapse this but here goes This is a stupid post that doesn't understand underlying game mechanics, progression, or actual MMO design principles in favor of going  but there's too many buttons that do the same thing! Also good luck on that refund, it's not going to happen.
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May 2, 2016 23:16
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Thunderbro posted:Yeah I mean all of those could be combined into: Huge Damage Reduction, 20% DR, Health + Heal boost. The way Level Sync just blanks out abilities is yet another one of the uniquely dumb design flaws this game has. Other games just scale your stats down. FFXIV is the unique child that blots out 3/4ths of your action bar because apparently somebody gives a lot of shits about low level balance. Regardless of my feelings about the rest of your posts, I agree 100% with this. When Guild Wars 2 came out I thought for sure everyone was going to use their excellent level scaling system. Then absolutely nobody did. Then again you had all your abilities by like level 10 anyway so levels themselves seemed pointless.
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May 2, 2016 23:25
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Kwyndig posted:This is a stupid post that doesn't understand underlying game mechanics, progression, or actual MMO design principles in favor of going This is the most hypocritical post yet! Great job!  megalodong posted:Man i dunno what mmos you've ever played but the playerbase in this game is the most talentless bunch of morons ever. Like yeah, they're generally more polite/mature than what you get in WOW, but they're also terrible at the game and proud of it, to the point of actively refusing to take any advice, look up any info, read their tooltips, anything. This is my exact perspective on this game. Shareholder safe to the point of being bland and archaic, coddling to the point of being restrictive. I'm happy for the people who enjoy it or it's their first MMO but it does absolutely nothing that wasn't marked off of a sheet of "successful WoW patches". It makes sense because SE would probably go bankrupt if ARR failed but it's certainly not a good thing. SolidSnakesBandana posted:Regardless of my feelings about the rest of your posts, I agree 100% with this. When Guild Wars 2 came out I thought for sure everyone was going to use their excellent level scaling system. Then absolutely nobody did. Then again you had all your abilities by like level 10 anyway so levels themselves seemed pointless. Thunderbro fucked around with this message at 23:32 on May 2, 2016 |
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May 2, 2016 23:28
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End game is actually fun and good now. Gordias sucked, Midas is neato
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May 2, 2016 23:32
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megalodong posted:Man i dunno what mmos you've ever played but the playerbase in this game is the most talentless bunch of morons ever. Like yeah, they're generally more polite/mature than what you get in WOW, but they're also terrible at the game and proud of it, to the point of actively refusing to take any advice, look up any info, read their tooltips, anything. Wow, there's so much wrong with this post.
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May 2, 2016 23:42
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no that's a pretty accurate post on the state of FFXIV
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May 2, 2016 23:44
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I can kind of see some specific attack skills being rolled together by means of a stance or trait, but smooshing all your defense skills into one "Don't Die" button just feels unappealing. After all one of the most common complaints about Paladin is how boring it's attack combo is. Now imagine you only have one or two defense cooldowns as well. There is some trimming that can be done, or in some cases removing useless skills from your hotbar (until you PvP and suddenly those skills are amazing). I don't want the combat system itself dumbed down too far by making everything that is remotely similar one button press, though.
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May 2, 2016 23:45
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seannykun posted:I'd honestly love if this was a thing for WAR. It'd make my hotbars neater to be honest. I can offer a workaround in the meantime, if you already aren't using it: code:code:Only caveat is that because macros are what they are, you cannot use them to queue up a stance change before your GCD is up. Hence, you have to wait for the moment GCD finishes before hitting the appropriate macro to swap stances, otherwise you wind up with Defiance with Fell Cleave and Decimate, or vice versa. Takes getting used to, but the muscle memory benefits outweigh the learning. SwissArmyDruid fucked around with this message at 23:54 on May 2, 2016 |
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May 2, 2016 23:52
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:Regardless of my feelings about the rest of your posts, I agree 100% with this. When Guild Wars 2 came out I thought for sure everyone was going to use their excellent level scaling system. Then absolutely nobody did. Then again you had all your abilities by like level 10 anyway so levels themselves seemed pointless. To chime in on why I like FFXIV: a. Being an FF fan I enjoy it's story even with it's myriad of moments where I believe saying 'I HAVE KILLED GODS' could have solved problems before they happened. b. It caters to my main-itis by letting me do everything on a single character. c. Playing it with cool friends that are cool. Also part of the charm in the game is how sincere the dev's apologies are for FFXIV 1.0. I never even played 1.0 and I was three-quarters of the way to tears with the second anniversary event because wow.
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May 2, 2016 23:54
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Thanks but this is a lot of effort for a game I pretty much only log into to raid so I'm not too concerned anymore. Besides, I'm already used to where I've got my buttons and I really dislike macros.
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May 3, 2016 00:02
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I have very strong opinion about video games that I must make absolutely clear to everyone else instead of doing literally anything different with my time. Like play a different video game.
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May 3, 2016 00:05
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help help people are discussing the game in a thread about the game
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May 3, 2016 00:09
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LethalGeek posted:I have very strong opinion about video games that I must make absolutely clear to everyone else instead of doing literally anything different with my time. i tried that and had a good time. thanks for the tip 
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May 3, 2016 00:13
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Thunderbro posted:Rift did before it fell into F2P hell, WoW kind of did with Timewalking, there's probably some others that do too. It's a great idea, instant killing everything is boring! Technically you can help out your low level friends in this way. As long as they engage the target first, any other player can kill it and the low level will still get full exp.
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May 3, 2016 00:15
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Thunderbro posted:i tried that and had a good time. thanks for the tip I'm a dev and we're going to take all your suggestions to heart, thank you for your hard work where can I send you a check? Please look forward to it!
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May 3, 2016 00:16
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EponymousMrYar posted:Yeah there's no real reason to levels past when you get all of your abilities in GW2 so I never really felt that I was getting stronger or whatnot. I'm not surprised more mmo's have picked it up because the level scaling system kind of has that in mind. You hit the nail on the head as to why other games don't use GW2's level system, if a person doesn't feel like a level means anything then they won't level and if they're not leveling, but aren't at maximum level, they're probably not going to play the game anymore. Games with level progression need things for you to get as you progress or else it feels pointless. It's simple carrot-based progression, you dangle new cool poo poo in front of the player to keep them playing. If you got everything at level 1 except for higher stats nobody would care.
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May 3, 2016 00:18
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:Technically you can help out your low level friends in this way. As long as they engage the target first, any other player can kill it and the low level will still get full exp. Yeah but grinding mobs for XP in those games technically takes some form of brain damage BobbyK posted:I'm a dev and we're going to take all your suggestions to heart, thank you for your hard work where can I send you a check? Please look forward to it! Please send it to my forums account. That way I'll be able to sticky this thread so everyone can see the important information inside. Thank you for your contribution!
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May 3, 2016 00:19
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Kwyndig posted:You hit the nail on the head as to why other games don't use GW2's level system, if a person doesn't feel like a level means anything then they won't level and if they're not leveling, but aren't at maximum level, they're probably not going to play the game anymore. Games with level progression need things for you to get as you progress or else it feels pointless. I think the initial complaint was more about how the game (ffxiv) just blocks you from using abilities above your level-synced level, as opposed to just scaling the damage on them or leaving them alone since they're already all based off a neutral "potency" stat anyway. It's not much fun syncing down as a dragoon and going back to spamming impulse drive.
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May 3, 2016 00:22
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Kwyndig posted:You hit the nail on the head as to why other games don't use GW2's level system, if a person doesn't feel like a level means anything then they won't level and if they're not leveling, but aren't at maximum level, they're probably not going to play the game anymore. Games with level progression need things for you to get as you progress or else it feels pointless. yeah I guess instead of making games fun or good you should just treat humans like rats in a skinner box. it's a really good idea and WoW managed to hit 5 million whole subscribers after implementing it in their cool new expansion.
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May 3, 2016 00:27
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White mages really love having to swap out Stone 1/2/3 on their bars when they get synced, especially when they could just be combined into one spell. I really hope the next expansion doesn't add 5 more active abilities for each class!
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May 3, 2016 00:29
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megalodong posted:I think the initial complaint was more about how the game (ffxiv) just blocks you from using abilities above your level-synced level, as opposed to just scaling the damage on them or leaving them alone since they're already all based off a neutral "potency" stat anyway. That's more of a problem with dragoon than it is with other jobs. Yeah, I'm not sure why you get kicked out of your abilities aside from possibly the way they coded level sync having that baked in from the early days. I mean, it took them over a year to fix the gear issues level sync dungeons had.
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May 3, 2016 00:33
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I miss Belzac
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May 3, 2016 00:34
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Fister Roboto posted:White mages really love having to swap out Stone 1/2/3 on their bars when they get synced, especially when they could just be combined into one spell. I literally made a 'sync bullshit' crossbar for WHM that is a perfect copy of my max level one but with scaled spells.
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May 3, 2016 00:34
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motoh posted:I literally made a 'sync bullshit' crossbar for WHM that is a perfect copy of my max level one but with scaled spells. I just made three macros to replace my 1 slot with Stone 1, 2, or 3 as needed. Then I hit 60 on whm and removed them, resolving to never do a level syncing DR with that class ever again.
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May 3, 2016 00:38
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megalodong posted:I think the initial complaint was more about how the game (ffxiv) just blocks you from using abilities above your level-synced level, as opposed to just scaling the damage on them or leaving them alone since they're already all based off a neutral "potency" stat anyway. Or not having Fire 3 as a Black Mage. The system isn't perfect yeah, but that doesn't mean the opposite isn't the best either. While you could make a case that trivializing already trivial content is just the natural progression of things that makes the rewards from that content mean less. Which makes the rest of the game mean less since you'll get used to the baseline of over-trivialized content and wish that harder content that is designed as such to also be easier because 'its too haaaaaard.' Then you'll have the people that hate things being easy complaining about things being too easy and... Waitaminute. This is the exact same thing that has happened, will happen, and is happening now. Fun is subjective. If you're not having fun, try something different. I find level syncing outside of Black Mage (because holy wow fire 3 is BLM's night and day turning point) interesting because I've learned things from when I only had those abilities and thus find having to do without them an interesting side-challenge. Which is made more or less challenging by other party members. I have always maintained that spamming Impulse Drive to boredom is more a personal problem than a system one. When there are players out there who never use Blood of the Dragon or Enochian or they RP Ice Mages, I say that 10 potency-worth of efficiency is not worth your sanity. Because seriously, it's just 10 potency, why are you boring yourselves to death over 10 potency? EponymousMrYar fucked around with this message at 01:14 on May 3, 2016 |
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May 3, 2016 00:44
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