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Gonkish posted:And so Newegg begins tempting me: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150727&FM=1 I absolutely don't trust this, but Fudzilla is claiming Polaris 10 to be ~$299 at launch, but beating 390X. I would die of high blood pressure long before I had enough salt for this rumor.
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May 3, 2016 13:52
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wipeout posted:That poster is saying it seems like a weird inefficient way of doing things. Perhaps that's the point, maybe not everyone claims the money back. Not from the part that eats that disgusting stuff, the worst we do is pickle our herring. I will tell you that our buttermilk koldskål with kammerjunkere is delicious this time of year.
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May 3, 2016 13:52
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SwissArmyDruid posted:I absolutely don't trust this, but Fudzilla is claiming Polaris 10 to be ~$299 at launch, but beating 390X. Considering 290xs have sold for ~$250? I'd sure hope it's at least that good. I expect GP104 to raise the bar above 980 Ti for the top single card, and 390X performance to not be as deep in the land of diminishing returns as it is now. Stanley Pain posted:
If you're wanting to go that big, you're either going to be flipping them soon or more interested in Vega or big Pascal.
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May 3, 2016 14:17
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SwissArmyDruid posted:I absolutely don't trust this, but Fudzilla is claiming Polaris 10 to be ~$299 at launch, but beating 390X. Well I just stumbled across this on the AMD subreddit: https://gfxbench.com/compare.jsp?be...28TM%29+R9+390X It's supposed to be benchmarks of the 390X versus what is apparently a "reference 480" (or possibly an engineering sample), according to this thread. I'm not entirely sure what all those ~~~NUMBERS~~~ mean, myself, but they are pretty close to one another so that's promising. Gonkish fucked around with this message at 14:31 on May 3, 2016 |
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May 3, 2016 14:28
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xthetenth posted:Considering 290xs have sold for ~$250? I'd sure hope it's at least that good. I expect GP104 to raise the bar above 980 Ti for the top single card, and 390X performance to not be as deep in the land of diminishing returns as it is now. They may be $250 now, but they were $549 at launch. (And hit $900 in some cases thanks to buttcoin mining, but that's beside the point.)
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May 3, 2016 14:35
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Truga posted:It's basically a dumber version of "10% off", yeah. Most people don't mail in the rebates, so the manufacturer keeps the money. Those who do have to cut out the barcode and mail that, which prevents you from returning the product to the store. The kind of people who can be bothered to return the item to the store are the ones who would bother to do the rebate. So it's kind of a win-win for the retailer and manufacturer. That's why they're so popular in the USA; we gently caress the consumers here. Edit: I've seen Microcenter do "free with mail in rebate" many times for things like USB Wi-Fi adapters and stuff, that's pretty cool though.
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May 3, 2016 14:48
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Boris Galerkin posted:Yeah I'd wager that a lot of people don't claim the mail in rebate out of laziness ("oh I'll just print it out and fill it out later..."), apathy ("do I really want to fill out this form for $10?"), or didn't know about the rebate. I think among a lot of 20-30 year olds, at least speaking from my own experience, we don't really have a stash of envelopes or postal stamps laying around either. So then I gotta decide if I really do want to pick up a box of 100 envelopes the next time I'm at the post office, and also find a place to buy a stamp, just to save a few bucks. Yup, exactly right. They also will make the rebates as tricky as possible so that some people gently caress it up (eg "there is only 1 product offered on this rebate, but you must check the box that indicates which of the 1 products that you are filing this rebate for", "copy the 20 digit serial number by hand onto this 3/4 inch wide box", "whoops you didn't sign it", etc), every rebate has a different window for when you have to mail it by (21 days, 30 days, 45 days, or by a fixed date), and also they will deny some of the rebates just for the hell of it anyway while making contacting them as painful as possible. The number of people who bothered to fill in the rebate properly, didn't make a mistake, mailed it on time, and are willing to sit on hold with their support for 45 minutes is getting pretty vanishingly small. At some point most people will cut their losses. I had a rebate from MSI that they photoshopped so they could deny it. I've also seen rebates that had 7-day windows from date of purchase to send them in, starting from a friday (i.e. won't even ship until Monday) - if you get the economy shipping you won't even have the product in time. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 15:36 on May 3, 2016 |
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May 3, 2016 15:30
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Gonkish posted:Well I just stumbled across this on the AMD subreddit: https://gfxbench.com/compare.jsp?be...28TM%29+R9+390X If you look at the numbers closer, all the onscreen rendering tests are (for some stupid reason) VSync'd. So both GPU's get the same FPS because they are both capped at 60. In the offscreen uncapped tests the 390x shits all over the "480" by 50% margins (up to a 100% margin in the driver overhead test, maybe due to prerelease drivers?).
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May 3, 2016 15:44
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Paul MaudDib posted:Yup, exactly right. They also will make the rebates as tricky as possible so that some people gently caress it up (eg "there is only 1 product offered on this rebate, but you must check the box that indicates which of the 1 products that you are filing this rebate for", "copy the 20 digit serial number by hand onto this 3/4 inch wide box", "whoops you didn't sign it", etc), every rebate has a different window for when you have to mail it by (21 days, 30 days, 45 days, or by a fixed date), and also they will deny some of the rebates just for the hell of it anyway while making contacting them as painful as possible. The number of people who bothered to fill in the rebate properly, didn't make a mistake, mailed it on time, and are willing to sit on hold with their support for 45 minutes is getting pretty vanishingly small. At some point most people will cut their losses. Some companies are good about their rebates, I had one with EVGA where the rebate got lost in the mail, they e-mailed me to let me know that it had not arrived and then told me to re-send the rebate form without the UPC and that they would give me an extra month extension for the rebate to arrive, it ended up arriving within the extra month window and after a bit I got my rebate card but instead of $30 it was $40 and there was a letter explaining that they had increased the rebate as an apology for the inconvenience of having to send the form twice. Phanteks on the other hand is terrible about rebates, they claimed that they needed to receive it by a certain date even though the wording on the rebate form was that the rebate needed to be post marked by that date, which it was. The only upside there was that I put up a nasty review on Newegg with the rebate shenanigans detailed and Newegg credited my account for the $20 that the rebate was worth. So yeah, rebates are a real mixed bag and greatly depend on the company.
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May 3, 2016 15:58
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I'd done maybe ten or so mail in rebates over the years, most recently last year, and I got money from every single one of them *shrug*
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May 3, 2016 16:00
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People who whine about prices on hardware in the EU really should consider all the consumer fuckery they do in the US. Countless times I've sent back items ordered online because of the no questions asked 14 day return policy law. EDIT: Not to mention the minimum 2-year guarantee on everything. snuff fucked around with this message at 16:16 on May 3, 2016 |
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May 3, 2016 16:12
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so BF5 will use vulkan or DX12? they are both are so similar to mantle.
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May 3, 2016 16:23
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calusari posted:so BF5 will use vulkan or DX12? they are both are so similar to mantle. Do AMD/NVidia even have a dog in the fight between the two?
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May 3, 2016 16:30
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Paul MaudDib posted:I had a rebate from MSI that they photoshopped so they could deny it. I've also seen rebates that had 7-day windows from date of purchase to send them in, starting from a friday (i.e. won't even ship until Monday) - if you get the economy shipping you won't even have the product in time. Holy poo poo, the sleaze. I am so goddamn glad I keep photocopies of my rebates. How did that eventually pan out? Also, given the garish and language of your new avatar, I wonder if it isn't because of the same person who gave me mine.
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May 3, 2016 16:40
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snuff posted:People who whine about prices on hardware in the EU really should consider all the consumer fuckery they do in the US. Countless times I've sent back items ordered online because of the no questions asked 14 day return policy law. in the us of a we pave our streets with the bones of the working class for dirt cheap prices!
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May 3, 2016 16:41
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I can simply buy 2 or 3 980ti's for what people pay in europe Also MIR are fine, i always get them back. Just follow the rules on the paperwork.
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May 3, 2016 16:52
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snuff posted:People who whine about prices on hardware in the EU really should consider all the consumer fuckery they do in the US. Countless times I've sent back items ordered online because of the no questions asked 14 day return policy law. ? I'm sorry, the EU gets boned. 14 days is about half the expected normal return policy window lol. However, Newegg does have some lame policies on GPU's in particular so there is that. In any case, all those benefits are good to have guarnateed but is it really worth 75% markup on every single item? I dont understand EU pricing in the least
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May 3, 2016 16:59
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THE DOG HOUSE posted:? I'm sorry, the EU gets boned. 14 days is about half the expected normal return policy window lol. However, Newegg does have some lame policies on GPU's in particular so there is that. In any case, all those benefits are good to have guarnateed but is it really worth 75% markup on every single item? I dont understand EU pricing in the least 14 days is minimum required by law, what do you have in the US? also 75% might be a tad high?
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May 3, 2016 17:03
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snuff posted:14 days is minimum required by law, what do you have in the US? also 75% might be a tad high? 30 days is "standard". There is no law (outside of anti-scamming), but nobody is going to buy anything from you if you dont have a return policy. 14 days is considered bare minimum for items that have a high risk of being bought then returned on purpose. Now, Newegg is unusual in that they only have no questions asked replacements of high end GPU's, but thats unusual and it does move some business elsewhere (like Amazon, which has no restrictions on returns). What would be nice is a 2 year guarantee on items that puts that burden on retailers vs the manufacturer RMA process, but, not for the cost difference... I dont get where all that money goes to. Is it just like, a tax?
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May 3, 2016 17:09
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I'm in Romania and we don't really pay more for anything, just 20% VAT, and taxes are hardly cause for complaint. Granted we make like one fifth the money Americans do but it's not exactly practical to price PC components according to local purchasing power.
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May 3, 2016 17:10
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THE DOG HOUSE posted:? I'm sorry, the EU gets boned. 14 days is about half the expected normal return policy window lol. However, Newegg does have some lame policies on GPU's in particular so there is that. In any case, all those benefits are good to have guarnateed but is it really worth 75% markup on every single item? I dont understand EU pricing in the least Part of it is paying taxes for actual services from the government.
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May 3, 2016 17:10
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SwissArmyDruid posted:Holy poo poo, the sleaze. I am so goddamn glad I keep photocopies of my rebates. How did that eventually pan out? I sent their rebate-support email (the one they told you to contact them by) a couple emails and then a week later they'd reply with a form letter telling me to call them, but I didn't want to spend a half hour waiting on a phone system that was probably just gonna hang up on me or get told no by some phone jockey in India. It was a $10 rebate, not worth going nuclear over. They won that round. Yeah, I always keep scans of my rebates too. The whole thing is a (deliberate) pain in the rear end and I typically discount the value of a rebate by 50% to account for hassle, sales tax on the value of the refund, and the ones that don't come back. For example I'd rather take a $15 discount at checkout over a $30 mail-in rebate. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 17:22 on May 3, 2016 |
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May 3, 2016 17:15
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THE DOG HOUSE posted:What would be nice is a 2 year guarantee on items that puts that burden on retailers vs the manufacturer RMA process, but, not for the cost difference... I dont get where all that money goes to. Is it just like, a tax? Yeah, you know list prices in most of the world (outside USA and Canada) include tax? I just took one example (an EVGA 980Ti as it seems relevant) and here in the UK we pay 6% more than the same card from NewEgg if you ignore taxes. Yeah it's more expensive but that seems reasonable to cover shipping costs etc, and nowhere close to your 75%. I've really never understood the North American style of listing prices without tax. I get that it reflects what the store are charging you for the product vs what the government takes, but you have to pay it anyway so who cares? It just leads to daft mental arithmetic when you get to the checkout, vs knowing exactly what you'll be charged if the tax is included on the ticket price.
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May 3, 2016 17:19
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Froist posted:Yeah, you know list prices in most of the world (outside USA and Canada) include tax? I just took one example (an EVGA 980Ti as it seems relevant) and here in the UK we pay 6% more than the same card from NewEgg if you ignore taxes. Yeah it's more expensive but that seems reasonable to cover shipping costs etc, and nowhere close to your 75%. You usually don't pay tax on anything you buy from out-of-state (unless the business has some physical presence in your state). The exception is Amazon, which is enough of a mega-retailer that states strongarm them into collecting sales tax. You do have to pay sales tax for in-person purchases or if the business has a physical presence in state. But it's pretty simple, each state has one sales-tax rate that applies to most purchases (everything except food). Yeah, there are a lot of states, but remember that most US states are the size of European countries. My state requires you to pay use-tax on out-of-state purchases, or they will let you just pay a flat fee based on your income. You usually come out ahead paying the flat fee if you buy a lot of stuff online - I paid $50 which means I break even at $830 online. And yeah no offense you guys whine about overseas pricing way more than is justified by the actual cost. 20% VAT on imported goods does a number on your pricing. Never got why europeans were so hot on a VAT - it's regressive and discourages consumption, just get rid of it and crank the income tax up by an equivalent amount. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 17:33 on May 3, 2016 |
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May 3, 2016 17:29
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Froist posted:Yeah, you know list prices in most of the world (outside USA and Canada) include tax? I just took one example (an EVGA 980Ti as it seems relevant) and here in the UK we pay 6% more than the same card from NewEgg if you ignore taxes. Yeah it's more expensive but that seems reasonable to cover shipping costs etc, and nowhere close to your 75%. 75% was an exaggeration but, to compare that card you mentioned, its $620 no tax shipped, vs $800 equivalent with the lowest. That kind of spread seems very common . Anyways Im just saying EU pricing seems to be getting boned somewhere. The reason US pricing doesn't show tax is that tax is different from state to state, usually 4-9%, and currently that only applies to items physically sold from that state to a resident of that state. So if I ordered something from newegg, which is warehoused usually in CA, I dont pay any tax at all. Or if I order something from Amazon from a warehouse outside of my state, I dont get taxed. Thats a little strange yes but ... thats why anyway. edit: For a more extreme example, just a few weeks ago you could get a MSI 980ti shipped to a US door with MIR that would come out to an equivalent of ... 363 pounds. What would burn me even more is knowing that they are still making money off these prices, so anything on top of that is kind of gay. penus penus penus fucked around with this message at 17:42 on May 3, 2016 |
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May 3, 2016 17:37
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Discouraging consumption is good for the soul. 
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May 3, 2016 17:38
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HMS Boromir posted:Discouraging consumption is good for the soul. Then we shouldn't have built the modern economy on consumption (nice post/av combo)
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May 3, 2016 17:53
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Paul MaudDib posted:You do have to pay sales tax for in-person purchases or if the business has a physical presence in state. But it's pretty simple, each state has one sales-tax rate that applies to most purchases (everything except food). Yeah, there are a lot of states, but remember that most US states are the size of European countries. I do know about the out-of-state thing - my second point was more about why the price of, say, a magazine at the supermarket is missing the tax, or a meal in a restaurant. Obviously you're not importing those across state boundaries so have to pay the tax, why not just include it? I assume (though could be completely wrong) that this "mentality" of listing pre-tax prices predates the internet and online shopping, so out-of-state rules aren't really the justification. THE DOG HOUSE posted:75% was an exaggeration but, to compare that card you mentioned, its $620 no tax shipped, vs $800 equivalent with the lowest. That kind of spread seems very common . Anyways Im just saying EU pricing seems to be getting boned somewhere. I don't really get where your 620/800 are coming from. Currently the cheapest 980ti is £529, which once you take off tax comes down to £440. That's just looking at one website (Aria) right now, not shopping round for bargains weeks ago and including rebates (which occasionally are a thing over here). If we met in the middle and said a sale/rebate price over here could possibly come down to £400 (again ignoring tax), or your price without the rebate could be closer to £400, then you're looking at a 10% markup for shipping it across the Atlantic, translating the manuals into extra languages, providing after-sales support in different languages, etc etc. It's not all that unreasonable. All I'm really saying is if you're going to do an like-for-like comparison you need to ignore the tax on our side too, or start factoring in healthcare and everywhere else those taxes actually go. It's not the retailers/manufacturers that are pushing the price up unreasonably. Paul MaudDib posted:And yeah no offense you guys whine about overseas pricing way more than is justified by the actual cost. 20% VAT on imported goods does a number on your pricing.
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May 3, 2016 18:40
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Froist posted:I do know about the out-of-state thing - my second point was more about why the price of, say, a magazine at the supermarket is missing the tax, or a meal in a restaurant. Obviously you're not importing those across state boundaries so have to pay the tax, why not just include it? I assume (though could be completely wrong) that this "mentality" of listing pre-tax prices predates the internet and online shopping, so out-of-state rules aren't really the justification. Probably psychological reasons, the same reason all prices end in .99. If the tax is hidden, then the retailer can mark up the price higher before people balk at it, and by the time they've gotten to the register they're already committed psychologically to buying the good.
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May 3, 2016 18:57
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Froist posted:I do know about the out-of-state thing - my second point was more about why the price of, say, a magazine at the supermarket is missing the tax, or a meal in a restaurant. Obviously you're not importing those across state boundaries so have to pay the tax, why not just include it? I assume (though could be completely wrong) that this "mentality" of listing pre-tax prices predates the internet and online shopping, so out-of-state rules aren't really the justification.
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May 3, 2016 19:02
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Froist posted:I do know about the out-of-state thing - my second point was more about why the price of, say, a magazine at the supermarket is missing the tax, or a meal in a restaurant. Obviously you're not importing those across state boundaries so have to pay the tax, why not just include it? I assume (though could be completely wrong) that this "mentality" of listing pre-tax prices predates the internet and online shopping, so out-of-state rules aren't really the justification. Oh no I am definitely including tax lol, that's the "issue". Yeah once you remove the thing that increases the cost so much, then sure, they cost roughly the same...
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May 3, 2016 19:35
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Sigh. I see 20+ replies to this thread and I think "oh, AMD decided to preempt Nvidia's announcement on Friday" only to see two dozen posts about regional purchasing.
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May 3, 2016 19:43
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bull3964 posted:Sigh. they did, but this is more important
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May 3, 2016 22:48
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bull3964 posted:Sigh. Never doubt the power of a good derail.
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May 4, 2016 00:49
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Zero VGS posted:Do AMD/NVidia even have a dog in the fight between the two? AMD likes vulkan, nvidia doesn't care.
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May 4, 2016 03:55
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snuff posted:I'm not a rich man, but I would rather everyone paid the same low price instead of making two prices hurting consumers , oh well never mind me and my scandinavian socialist ways. I'm not sure what the point of it is, maybe they hope people forget and they get to keep that extra $30?
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May 4, 2016 07:37
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The talk about mail in rebates is really interesting. Wonder if it will be covered in this book which I just started listening to via Audible ("Phising for Phools"): http://www.amazon.com/Phishing-Phools-Economics-Manipulation-Deception/dp/0691168318 I think the premise will be that manipulation and trickery that take advantage of the short-sighted instincts of our species are kind of prevalent in capitalism (the book is US-centric) and even honest to God decent moral people are forced to act that way if they want to stay competitive.
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May 4, 2016 07:55
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snuff posted:EDIT: Not to mention the minimum 2-year guarantee on everything. In practice the two year warranty means in the first six months of your purchase they have to prove you broke it and in the remaining time you have to prove you didn't.
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May 4, 2016 12:20
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how are we still on this? okay. MIR is a manufacturer rebate offered to help move units. That's all. Mainly they try to protect themselves from scummy retailers who think "Hey we sold 100 of these last week lets try to cash in on that $3k"
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May 4, 2016 12:39
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I always figured it was a way to offer a deal that some people wouldn't take advantage of because of the added hassle, sort of like how an unused gift card is 100% profit. The fact that it's manufacturer rather than retailer specific makes it make a lot of sense, though. I've never seen a store advertise a mail-in rebate around here, so I'm pretty sure we don't get them - hell, I don't even know what you'd call it in Romanian. They seem to be the way some of the best deals happen though and unlike VAT I can't tell myself I'm contributing to glorious socialism by paying extra.
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May 4, 2016 14:18
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