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TFRazorsaw posted:If anyone is going to make an analogy, then a speaker should be open to the implications that analogy has and what values you appear to hold in doing so. Privileged people speak of danger as an allure, and then remain gleeful about the edge they dance on, and then effectively brag to others that seek alternatives that they're living a more full existence. I'm weary of danger, I'm weary of my various neuroses making it harder to enjoy myself, to express myself, to eat or even travel. I am content to find substance in the imitations that give me a modicum of ease among all of these, however minor they are. Agree about the uselessness of examing Zizke, as he cultivates a cloak of inscutability in his writings that reveals nothing but an intent to be provocative, without insight. But Alan Moore? He's still great. Don't let the much more inferior takes on his material sway your opinion of his writings.
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May 3, 2016 19:39
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Alan Moore has done some questionable things later in his life. He's also earned that right by being one of the, if not the, best and most worthwhile comic book writer ever. Don't let the easy jokes that can be made about him fool you. He's not Frank Millar.
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May 3, 2016 19:42
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I've read comics all my life. The one thing of Moore's I still hold in esteem is "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow". I don't care for much else. *shrugs*
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May 3, 2016 19:50
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TFRazorsaw posted:I think I understand it just fine, and that it amounts to horseshit. By saying "so be it", I'm perfectly fine with you thinking otherwise and thinking me an idiot or whatever else you're considering for it. But I'm not gonna lie and say the exact opposite of what my brain is thinking, either. TFRazorsaw posted:But virtual entertainment, I will agree, has a dangerous power to influence what people think about reality, about how people interact with each other, about how wars are fought and won. That's why I've said again, that this thread has given me something to think about. Which shows a, if somewhat abrupt, conceptualization of what is being suggest. However it's preceded by: quote:If anyone is going to make an analogy, then a speaker should be open to the implications that analogy has and what values you appear to hold in doing so. Shageletic posted:Agree about the uselessness of examing Zizke, as he cultivates a cloak of inscutability in his writings that reveals nothing but an intent to be provocative, without insight. Danger fucked around with this message at 19:58 on May 3, 2016 |
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May 3, 2016 19:52
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Pablo Gigante posted:Lmao at someone editing out literally the entire point of Prometheus. I agree why the gently caress take out the exploding head? TFRazorsaw posted:I've read comics all my life. The one thing of Moore's I still hold in esteem is "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow". I don't care for much else. *shrugs* I agree although I haven't read his Swamp Thing to be fair. His Green Lantern short stories are also really cool. EDIT: Actually "For the man who has everything" is also tight
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May 3, 2016 20:04
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I arrived at that realization about entertainment, or at least contextualized its relevance to the debate about Marvel and DC, already, again, from my conversation earlier with Snowman_McK. I didn't need Zizek for that, Danger.
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May 3, 2016 20:04
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From Hell, y'all.
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May 3, 2016 20:05
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TFRazorsaw posted:I've read comics all my life. The one thing of Moore's I still hold in esteem is "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow". I don't care for much else. *shrugs* Why?
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May 3, 2016 20:05
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His run on Miracleman is still my favorite thing he's done. Not his best, but just really drat good.
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May 3, 2016 20:06
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Danger posted:
I am only aware of him through his takes on popular cultures published in the type of magazines you mentioned. Maybe you're right, I just haven't read anything of his that made me want to dig deeper. The best philosophers to me are popularizers like Bertrand Russell, who seek to impart already well known ideas and notions in academia to the wider world. EDIT: My love of Alan Moore is based around his ever roaming mind taking one shot at a subject, shaking it out in all its permutations, then promptly dropping it to move forward without looking back. He wrote one of the most iconic Superman comics ever, shrugged his shoulders, and moved on from supercomics. He wrote one of the most inexhaustibly researched comics in history (From Hell), shrugged his shoulders, and moved from non-fiction comic business. He just doesn't give a gently caress about being held to one tradition or type of writing, something that a sometimes toxically in-bred and unchanging mainstream comics industry could well learn from. Shageletic fucked around with this message at 20:11 on May 3, 2016 |
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May 3, 2016 20:06
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Russell is aight.
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May 3, 2016 20:07
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LesterGroans posted:From Hell, y'all. Yea, From Hell is far and away his best. I'd go as far to call it a seminal work in the medium on the 20th century and also related to the current discussion on violence.
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May 3, 2016 20:08
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Shageletic posted:I am only aware of him through his takes on popular cultures published in the type of magazines you mentioned. Maybe you're right, I just haven't read anything of his that made me want to dig deeper. By and large that's what Zizek is to most people I'd say. I started reading him to get a better grip on Lacan.
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May 3, 2016 20:09
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LesterGroans posted:From Hell, y'all. I was really confused because I thought you meant the movie, which I was lukewarm on. Didn't realize it was a graphic novel.
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May 3, 2016 20:10
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MacheteZombie posted:I was really confused because I thought you meant the movie, which I was lukewarm on. Didn't realize it was a graphic novel. Realize it and read it.
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May 3, 2016 20:11
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From Hell is required reading.
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May 3, 2016 20:11
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I don't like the statement some of his works make. "The Killing Joke", in particular, makes statements about the mentally ill that I find repugnant, in addition to a host of other issues. I am aware, yes, that he's disowned the work, but it remains one of his most noteworthy ones. I could go on about other things but I don't really want to write an essay about why I don't like Alan Moore, and I've kind of already been on probation for not shutting up about something and I'd really like to avoid falling into another situation like that for the time being.
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May 3, 2016 20:12
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Pablo Gigante posted:Lmao at someone editing out literally the entire point of Prometheus. So now you can understand the litany of complaints against Man Of Steel. It follows the same logic as in everyday racism: "Although we are ready to accept the Jewish, Arab, Oriental other, there is some detail which bothers us in the West: they way they accentuate a certain word, the way they count money, the way they laugh. This tiny feature renders them aliens, no matter how they try to behave like us." That 'tiny feature' is the 'caffeine' we've been referring to, just as Shaw's faith is the caffeine in Prometheus. Superman does absolutely nothing wrong, and looks exactly like a human - yet fans are upset at him, even terrified. How many times have you seen Superman labelled as 'sociopathic' because he doesn't cry enough? "He doesn't smile enough", and so-on. It's one of the few good jokes in south park:  Aversive experiences - annoyances - are the threat that must be expunged. (And that's why I don't stress the Marvel = quips meme. Quips are an identical sort of 'annoyance'.)
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May 3, 2016 20:12
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I wish penismightier still posted here because he was our forum's One Dude Who Didn't Like From Hell and I'm not sure I ever found out why
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May 3, 2016 20:12
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:I wish penismightier still posted here because he was our forum's One Dude Who Didn't Like From Hell and I'm not sure I ever found out why Oh yeah, I remember that. TFRazorsaw posted:I could go on about other things but I don't really want to write an essay about why I don't like Alan Moore, and I've kind of already been on probation for not shutting up about something and I'd really like to avoid falling into another situation like that for the time being. It's not like it's unprompted.
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May 3, 2016 20:13
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Realize it and read it. Wow you have never recommended me a comic/graphic novel and I treat your word as a golden seal of approval, so I will get ahold of this and read it.
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May 3, 2016 20:14
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:I wish penismightier still posted here because he was our forum's One Dude Who Didn't Like From Hell and I'm not sure I ever found out why Really? Now I wanna ask him about it on Twitter.
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May 3, 2016 20:15
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:So now you can understand the litany of complaints against Man Of Steel. It follows the same logic as in everyday racism: Oh yeah dude I'm totally aware of those complaints and how stupid they are, I love MoS
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May 3, 2016 20:16
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MacheteZombie posted:Wow you have never recommended me a comic/graphic novel and I treat your word as a golden seal of approval, so I will get ahold of this and read it. It's tops, baby!
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May 3, 2016 20:16
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:It's not like it's unprompted. I've been avoiding saying this because people on this forum love accusing me of using things like this as a shield, but today has been very trying for a variety of reasons and I really would like to just minimize things causing me anxiety. I'm trying very hard to wind certain lines of discussion down. Of course I could just stop replying. So. Yeah. Meh.
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May 3, 2016 20:18
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TFRazorsaw posted:I've been avoiding saying this because people on this forum love accusing me of using things like this as a shield, but today has been very trying for a variety of reasons and I really would like to just minimize things causing me anxiety. I'm trying very hard to wind certain lines of discussion down. I know someone who gets eaten alive by their anxiety, so I'm sorry to hear about you struggling with anxiety issues.
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May 3, 2016 20:23
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Terrorist Fistbump posted:Interesting. How does this fit into the broader themes of the movie? I wasn't planning on seeing it, but if there's enough interesting stuff in there, I will.
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May 3, 2016 20:30
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Thanks. That's actually very comforting.
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May 3, 2016 20:31
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I'm not one for hyperbole, but From Hell chapter ten is one of the most mindblowing things I had ever read.
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May 3, 2016 20:31
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gently caress I really gotta read From Hell
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May 3, 2016 20:34
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TFRazorsaw posted:I don't like the statement some of his works make. "The Killing Joke", in particular, makes statements about the mentally ill that I find repugnant, in addition to a host of other issues. I am aware, yes, that he's disowned the work, but it remains one of his most noteworthy ones. Here's the difference. Not liking something does not mean it is bad or badly made. Just the same as liking something does not mean it is good. I love Power Rangers, from Mighty Morphing to Time Force at the very least, and can say some nice things about Dino Thunder and RPM when I can, but that doesn't make Power Rangers at all a Good Thing. Every now and again it'll have a concept or an idea that's genuinely good, but for the most part it's just a fun goofy weird show and is enjoyable for just about those reasons. I actually disagree about what the Killing Joke is about, according to you, but that's one of the strengths of the written word- multiple interpretations. But if you don't feel comfortable about discussing it, or it literally causes you distress when people pile on, and there is a habit of that here and elsewhere in the forums, then yeah bow out. No worries there.
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May 3, 2016 20:36
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Pablo Gigante posted:gently caress I really gotta read From Hell Yeah, ordering this once my paycheck hits.
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May 3, 2016 20:37
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I haven't read much Moore honestly but Watchmen will forever be a god-tier comic in my mind.
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May 3, 2016 20:39
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From Hell is one of my favorite true-crime pieces ever.
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May 3, 2016 20:46
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The only god-tier comic to me is Calvin & Hobbes. All it got was a documentary though.
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May 3, 2016 20:46
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Danger posted:I'm not one for hyperbole, but From Hell chapter ten is one of the most mindblowing things I had ever read. Is that the one where Gull explains the origins of a lot of the architecture in London? Because I loving adored that whole section.
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May 3, 2016 20:54
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Detective Dog Dick posted:Is that the one where Gull explains the origins of a lot of the architecture in London? Because I loving adored that whole section. Nah, I want to say that is like chapter 3 or 4, but that part is great as well and sets up the scope of the whole work (which sees it's awful realization in chapter ten): "Fourth dimensional patterns within Eternity's monolith would.. seem merely random events to third-dimensional percipients, events rising towards inevitable convergence like an archway's lines. Let us say something peculiar happens in 1788… a century later, related events take place. Then again, 50 years later. Then 25 years, then 12. An invisible curve rising through the centuries. Can history then be said to have an architecture? The notion is most glorious and most horrible." I'm speaking of Gull's murder of Marie Kelly juxtaposed with him traveling to a (then) modern office setting; the 'delivering' of the twentieth century: "Where comes this dullness in your eyes? How has your century numbed you so? Shall man be given marvels only when he is beyond all wonder? Your days were born in blood and fires, whereof in you I may not see the meanest spark! Your past is pain and iron! Know yourselves! With all your shimmering numbers and your lights, think not to be inured to history. Its black root succours you. It is inside you. Are you asleep to it, that cannot feel its breath upon your neck nor see what soaks its cuffs? See me! Wake up and look upon me! I am come amongst you. I am with you always!" The notion that an examination of his work (a particular distillation of violence taken apart from the universalizing modernization of capitalism) is the ancient machinery which built the post-modern and still sustains it in dark secrecy (as opposed to the post-modern, "politics without politics" era being a freedom from the old violence). Great stuff.
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May 3, 2016 21:03
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The best part of From Hell is the endnotes
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May 3, 2016 21:10
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:The best part of From Hell is the endnotes This reads like one of those burns people make about a movie they didn't like. "The best part was the credits, because then it was over"
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May 3, 2016 21:11
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MacheteZombie posted:This sounds like one of those burns people make about a movie they didn't like. "The best part was the credits, because then it was over" It does sound like that, but I'm actually being sincere, the end notes to From Hell are great.
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May 3, 2016 21:12
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