RPG Thread: SaGa Emeril Beyond

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some bust on that guy: Jan 21, 2006; This avatar was paid for by the Silent Majority.

Nate RFB posted:

Finished BOF3 and can't say I was all that impressed. It felt like I had to constantly wrestle with various gameplay mechanics, whether it was the encounter rate, or the master system (why should I have to truck on back to every master to get my skills?). Even the camera was a chore to work with at times. The story is whatever, basically a non-factor without much meat to it but ultimately inoffensive as well. Like I guess it kind of felt like a Dragon Quest without the charm? Fun fishing game, though.

Given these impressions, should I still give BOF4 a try?

I was posting about BOF 3 about the same time you were and I couldn't make it through. I tried to force myself through it, and then thought "Why am I doing this?" and stopped. It's just very okay, nothing special. I kind of feel like I wasted my time. The best part of the game was the beginning when you were dealing with Balio and Sunder. That was funny and entertaining for a few hours. But after that, there's not a whole lot of story. Once you're an adult, the story is just "Go find God" and then you're just going towards that direction for half the game.

# ? May 3, 2016 01:58

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# ? May 24, 2024 02:06

bloodychill: May 8, 2004; And if the world
should end tonight,
I had a crazy, classic life; Exciting Lemon

Super Ninja Fish posted:

I was posting about BOF 3 about the same time you were and I couldn't make it through. I tried to force myself through it, and then thought "Why am I doing this?" and stopped. It's just very okay, nothing special. I kind of feel like I wasted my time. The best part of the game was the beginning when you were dealing with Balio and Sunder. That was funny and entertaining for a few hours. But after that, there's not a whole lot of story. Once you're an adult, the story is just "Go find God" and then you're just going towards that direction for half the game.

I'm still trucking through it but this is my feeling too. The first half was full of silly charming stuff. The second half isn't all bad but it's generally less interesting and the encounter rate is just brutal. It wouldn't be so bad but even when you're just going back to early areas to talk to NPC's like the masters, you still have to keep killing those level 1 blobs for irrelevant amounts of exp because it didn't occur to anyone that that was very stupid. Maybe the game has some no-enc item and I just haven't found it yet.

Funny thing is, I played it at release and really liked it a lot. I guess my bullshit tolerance as a 12 year old was just a lot higher.

# ? May 3, 2016 02:02

Tae: Oct 24, 2010; Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!

More info on the combat of I am Setsuna:

quote:

Several shops were also open. The first was the Magic Consortium, which offered purchasable Spritnites. Spritnites provide players with their Tech attacks, and can be equipped onto the Talismans they wore. Spritnites could also only be bought if the player brought the correct ingredients to the Magic Consortium, requiring players collect them from monsters.

Monsters do not just have single normal/rare drops, though. To encourage experimentation with abilities and techniques, monsters will drop different items depending on how they are killed. If they are killed during combos, certain elemental attacks, with status ailments, excess or specific damage, or other means, they will drop a different for each means in which the player killed them.

In order to receive the items needed to unlock further Spritnites at the Magic Consortium, players would need to be mindful of how they were killing each enemy. Experimentation is key, although the game does keep track of items the player has acquired, and the lethal means they used to get them, in a convenient log for each monster.

Spritnites are further complicated using Fluxes. Fluxes occur at random during tech or combo attacks, and they permanently add enhancements and abilities to a set Spritnite, should the player agree to add them. There are also support Spritnites that add passive abilities, and these can gain fluxes that add a weak version of another support Spritnite to their powers.

Food could also be prepared by finding ingredients in the field. Food gives the player powerful buffs that last for a single fight, and new recipes could be found by talking to NPCs when in possession of the proper ingredients. Many of these could be found by searching glowing points in the field, although no food was implemented in this build.

After digesting this information and heading into a nearby frozen cave, players could engage with the enemies. Combat is initiated by walking too close to the enemy, occurring directly in the field.

Players could attack and use Tech powers while in combat. Positioning was important to using these abilities, as many of them have specific areas they effect. It sometimes helped to wait until the enemies moved closer together before launching an attack that would hit them all when clumped together. Likewise, certain enemies did area damage upon death, meaning it was better to hit them when they were farther away.

Tech attacks did not limit themselves to a single caster. Each of the four playable characters in the build had combo abilities that used a second character, launching more powerful, expensive attacks that did high damage across multiple areas.

All attacks could also be further enhanced using the game�s Momentum system. Beside each character�s attack bar was a circular meter that also filled over time. This circle could fill up to three times, and with each full circle, players could enhance one attack by hitting square during that attack at the right moment. These moments were indicated by a glowing star popping over the character�s head.

When done successfully, Momentum Mode would add damage, status effects, or other handy things that would hinder the enemy. Doing many of these would also increase the random chance that a Singularity would occur, which is a large party-wide bonus that has a greater chance to appear depending on how often the player used Momentum.

The monsters in the icy cavern could all be dealt with using basic attacks, but with Momentum Mode, combo attacks, and the various items enemies dropped based on how they were killed, it encouraged players to always switch up how they kill the monsters. By using a variety of moves, players could gain many different items to unlock several kinds of Spritnites, which would give the player access to even more abilities.

# ? May 3, 2016 02:44

Verranicus: Aug 18, 2009; by VideoGames

Nate RFB posted:

Finished BOF3 and can't say I was all that impressed. It felt like I had to constantly wrestle with various gameplay mechanics, whether it was the encounter rate, or the master system (why should I have to truck on back to every master to get my skills?). Even the camera was a chore to work with at times. The story is whatever, basically a non-factor without much meat to it but ultimately inoffensive as well. Like I guess it kind of felt like a Dragon Quest without the charm? Fun fishing game, though.

Given these impressions, should I still give BOF4 a try?

BOF4 has a much better story that feels more like a cohesive thing throughout, BOF3 feels more like the filler episodes of an anime in that their stories feel disconnected even if they're good.

# ? May 3, 2016 02:57

Panic! at Nabisco: Jun 6, 2007; it seemed like a good idea at the time

Tae posted:

More info on the combat of I am Setsuna:

Wow, this sounds really fiddly but kind of neat. I was meh on this game but I'm kind of excited now, I love games that incentivize you to avoid the attack-attack-attack thing.

# ? May 3, 2016 03:32

Clarste: Apr 15, 2013; Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

Verranicus posted:

BOF4 has a much better story that feels more like a cohesive thing throughout, BOF3 feels more like the filler episodes of an anime in that their stories feel disconnected even if they're good.

I'd say it still suffers heavily from the "we need to get from A to B, except we have to go through C, D, E, F, and G along the way, but the overall plotline is definitely more substantial throughout. It's interesting choice to focus so much on the villain, even if he was obviously inspired by Sephiroth's unexpected popularity.

# ? May 3, 2016 03:53

dis astranagant: Dec 14, 2006

Eh, I'd say the villain is someone else entirely.

# ? May 3, 2016 04:45

Renoistic: Jul 27, 2007; Everyone has a
guardian angel.

The sections where you play as the villain were my favorite. It's a neat idea.

# ? May 3, 2016 05:35

Kanfy: Jan 9, 2012; Just gotta keep walking down that road.

Renoistic posted:

The sections where you play as the villain were my favorite. It's a neat idea.

It's cool mechanics-wise too since the guy's a one-man army from the start, it's fun being able to occasionally play as someone who's an utter badass in combat when your main party is still a bunch of low-level scrubs.

Unfortunately you never get to play as the actual best villain of BoF IV.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf9wP-XEKo4

# ? May 3, 2016 07:40

Clarste: Apr 15, 2013; Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

dis astranagant posted:

Eh, I'd say the villain is someone else entirely.

Well, sort of true, but the fact that we can even discuss this means the game did something right, I guess. 16 years later, we still have opinions on the characters in this game.

# ? May 3, 2016 09:48

Dr Pepper: Feb 4, 2012; Don't like it? well...

The whole "destined Chosen one" thing isn't really used much in RPGs these days.

Heck, Dragon Quest of all series hasn't used the trope since DQV.

# ? May 3, 2016 09:57

Clarste: Apr 15, 2013; Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

WRPGs use it all the time, even if they don't always call it that. Skyrim, Mass Effect, etc.

# ? May 3, 2016 10:00

CommissarMega: Nov 18, 2008; THUNDERDOME LOSER

Crabtree posted:

Well I have some good and bad news for you then.

No joke, I'm unironically looking forward to this. I just hope Spiders has the resources to do this game right.

# ? May 3, 2016 10:14

Srice: Sep 11, 2011

Dr Pepper posted:

The whole "destined Chosen one" thing isn't really used much in RPGs these days.

Heck, Dragon Quest of all series hasn't used the trope since DQV.

And heck, the way DQV went about that was clever and not lazy.

# ? May 3, 2016 10:54

Crabtree: Oct 17, 2012; ARRRGH! Get that wallet out!
Everybody: Lowtax in a Pickle!
Pickle! Pickle! Pickle! Pickle!; Dinosaur Gum

CommissarMega posted:

No joke, I'm unironically looking forward to this. I just hope Spiders has the resources to do this game right.

The good and bad thing about Spiders is that each one of their games learns and improves from the last. They don't really change too much from the formula as The Technomancer looks a lot like Bound By Flame put into Mars:War Logs, but it appears to still have some of that small developer feel. I'm interested, but I don't know if they'll ever get the initial formula "right" in the sense that it feels complete if that makes sense. Its like they're reaching for a Witcher but they haven't fully gotten there yet.

# ? May 3, 2016 11:02

TurnipFritter: Apr 21, 2010; 10,000 POSTS ON TALKING TIME

Dragon Quest 4 and 5 were really the only ones that did a Chosen One thing.

# ? May 3, 2016 13:18

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Clarste posted:

WRPGs use it all the time, even if they don't always call it that. Skyrim, Mass Effect, etc.

yeah honestly a lot of the tropes people attribute to JRPGs are way more common in WRPGs

# ? May 3, 2016 13:49

Ventana: Mar 28, 2010; *Yosh intensifies*

I'm not sure if chosen one is one of those things that really gets associated badly with jRPGs anymore. At least, it's not derogatory or the forefront of tropes that get associated with them I think.

# ? May 3, 2016 14:23

Clarste: Apr 15, 2013; Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

The list of tropes that get associated with JRPGs pretty much boils down to "Cloud, from FF7".

# ? May 3, 2016 14:35

Kild: Apr 24, 2010

Clarste posted:

The list of tropes that get associated with JRPGs pretty much boils down to "Cloud, from FF7".

Cloud from Advent Children, falsely attributed to his original 7 self.

# ? May 3, 2016 14:45

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

I feel like Chrono Trigger is Peak Trope. Everything you expect to happen in a JRPG happens in Chrono Trigger.

# ? May 3, 2016 14:49

Junpei Hyde: Mar 15, 2013

exquisite tea posted:

I feel like Chrono Trigger is Peak Trope. Everything you expect to happen in a JRPG happens in Chrono Trigger.

I expect JRPGs to be good.

# ? May 3, 2016 14:54

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

That's a pretty unreasonable expectation.

# ? May 3, 2016 14:59

Ventana: Mar 28, 2010; *Yosh intensifies*

exquisite tea posted:

I feel like Chrono Trigger is Peak Trope. Everything you expect to happen in a JRPG happens in Chrono Trigger.

I don't remember Chrono trigger having a hot spring section though.

# ? May 3, 2016 15:01

Clarste: Apr 15, 2013; Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

I can't wait for Idea Factory games to become the new golden standard for JRPGs.

# ? May 3, 2016 15:02

Motto: Aug 3, 2013

their 8th gen titles apparently have good battle systems and they're somehow able to contract well-known artists, so hey, it's possible.

# ? May 3, 2016 15:04

Sakurazuka: Jan 24, 2004; NANI?

Ventana posted:

I don't remember Chrono trigger having a hot spring section though.

If there wasn't one in 65,000,000 BC there should have been

# ? May 3, 2016 15:07

Crabtree: Oct 17, 2012; ARRRGH! Get that wallet out!
Everybody: Lowtax in a Pickle!
Pickle! Pickle! Pickle! Pickle!; Dinosaur Gum

Have JRPGs changed much from the 80s-90s outside of obvious graphics and technological improvements?

# ? May 3, 2016 15:15

Motto: Aug 3, 2013

Individual companies and devs iterated on their mechanics, market shifts led various developers to shift to handheld or mobile, larger JRPGs (read: Final Fantasy) incorporated popular design trends in the pursuit of remaining relevant, throwback franchises and projects have cropped up.

So yeah outside of FF it's mostly been devs refining or reworking their personal formulas for the sake of general improvement or increased appeal.

Motto fucked around with this message at 15:25 on May 3, 2016

# ? May 3, 2016 15:20

Verranicus: Aug 18, 2009; by VideoGames

The parts where you play as Fou Lou in BoF4 were legit good, and the game did a good job of showing -why- he wanted to seize control rather than just "because I'm an evil god".

# ? May 3, 2016 15:27

Kild: Apr 24, 2010

Crabtree posted:

Have JRPGs changed much from the 80s-90s outside of obvious graphics and technological improvements?

less bathhouse scenes

# ? May 3, 2016 15:28

Macdeo Lurjtux: Jul 5, 2011; BRRREADSTOOORRM!

But more 12 yr olds that are actually 800 yr old demons/dragons/Angels

# ? May 3, 2016 15:38

Verranicus: Aug 18, 2009; by VideoGames

Kild posted:

less bathhouse scenes

Fire Emblem Fates would like a word with you.

# ? May 3, 2016 15:39

The Colonel: Jun 8, 2013; I commute by bike!

i liked fallout 2's interpretation of the idea of being the chosen one, where your tribe just sort of picked you for fulfilling some arbitrary set of criteria but it didn't really mean you were actually anything special and parading around in places like new reno or the ncr about how you were the chosen one would make everyone think you're a weirdo

# ? May 3, 2016 16:20

Davincie: Jul 7, 2008

Crabtree posted:

Have JRPGs changed much from the 80s-90s outside of obvious graphics and technological improvements?

they don't all ahve the same lovely gameplay

# ? May 3, 2016 16:24

Heavy neutrino: Sep 16, 2007; You made a fine post for yourself. ...For a casualry, I suppose.

Endorph posted:

yeah honestly a lot of the tropes people attribute to JRPGs are way more common in WRPGs

You're right; I was talking about WRPGs when I commented on chosen ones and superpolicemen. JRPGs don't really lend themselves to the sort of analysis I was doing, as they're usually more interested in telling you a rigid story whereas WRPGs typically drop you into a world, give you vague directions and a long term goal, and tell you to go ahead and have fun interactions with it.

The Colonel posted:

i liked fallout 2's interpretation of the idea of being the chosen one, where your tribe just sort of picked you for fulfilling some arbitrary set of criteria but it didn't really mean you were actually anything special and parading around in places like new reno or the ncr about how you were the chosen one would make everyone think you're a weirdo

Yeah, that was fun. You were the "chosen one" only insofar as you passed some bullshit test and your tribe pushed you out into some suicidal task. There's also Arcanum where you're supposedly the reincarnation of some extremely powerful elf wizard but the number of people who believe it amounts to like one crazy religious ex-con (you don't even believe it, yourself) who joins you at the start and happens to be a terrible party member because Arcanum's mechanics are completely insane.

# ? May 3, 2016 16:33

Rascyc: Jan 23, 2008; Dissatisfied Puppy

What? He's literally the most powerful character in the game.

Well aside from the dog anyway!

Rascyc fucked around with this message at 18:01 on May 3, 2016

# ? May 3, 2016 17:59

Meowywitch: Jan 14, 2010; Fight for all that is beautiful in the world

Well, are you in fact the reincarnation of an incredibly powerful elf wizard?

# ? May 3, 2016 18:01

Inspector Gesicht: Oct 26, 2012; 500 Zeus a body.

Arc 1 is kind of... generic, like Baldur's Gate 1. If I skip ahead without importing, what will I miss outside of some unique accessories and half a side-quest?

Inspector Gesicht fucked around with this message at 21:42 on May 3, 2016

# ? May 3, 2016 21:36

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# ? May 24, 2024 02:06

Verranicus: Aug 18, 2009; by VideoGames

Playing through Fire Emblem 4 again, and I really wish the large battlefields from it were featured in more games as opposed to doubling the number of stages but making them feel much much smaller.

# ? May 3, 2016 22:00

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