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I think the "restrictions on free speech are not just in the government" approach is coherent and even right to an extent, but it's unclear how it's compatible with formalism/exit rights/patchwork/mechanisms of decentralized exclusion that the newer righties want to propose as solutions.
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May 2, 2016 17:34
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Speaking of gamer gate, the Sandifer Kickstarter is over $4K.
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May 2, 2016 17:53
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Oligopsony posted:I think the "restrictions on free speech are not just in the government" approach is coherent and even right to an extent, but it's unclear how it's compatible with formalism/exit rights/patchwork/mechanisms of decentralized exclusion that the newer righties want to propose as solutions. Or even with itself. If you want absolute free speech then we have the absolute free speech to call you a loving moron and Twitter has the absolute free speech to flag your account for abuse and block you.
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May 2, 2016 17:54
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Like I'm not sure how you could formulate a coherent system where you're free to say whatever insane bullshit you want and people have to listen to you and you face no repercussions for anything without it being self-defeating. I mean I guess I could turn this around and say that such a system is needed anyway because "well what if someone got fired for supporting interracial marriage in the 1950's" and if I was an alt-righter the obvious answer of "non-discrimination laws" is clearly not an option so 
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May 2, 2016 18:00
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Would be fun if reactos started reading Foucault for ammunition.
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May 2, 2016 18:10
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Parallel Paraplegic posted:Or even with itself. If you want absolute free speech then we have the absolute free speech to call you a loving moron and Twitter has the absolute free speech to flag your account for abuse and block you. Well, I do think it's coherent to say that the owners of the means of speech should be stuck in a position of content neutrality, and I'm sympathetic to both that and "yeah let's just explicitly suppress racism et al." - I think there are tactical situations where either is appropriate - but of course what some people want is for their saying "why did we let a baboon in the White House... #whitegenocide" to be non-coercive free speech and "gently caress off nazi" to be suppressing, and yeah, that's special pleading. There's certainly no (nearby) world where people don't shut up because they're afraid of social censure, so if your free speech ideals are trying to achieve that, something's gotten confused.
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May 2, 2016 18:17
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Hellequin posted:Dude, you interviewed The Clean, Flamin' Groovies, and the Violent Femmes? gently caress. I personally interviewed none of those ;-) Pope Guilty posted:Speaking of gamer gate, the Sandifer Kickstarter is over $4K. Only six months of hype and trolling the reactionaries and rationalists hard to achieve overnight success!
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May 2, 2016 19:05
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Oligopsony posted:Well, I do think it's coherent to say that the owners of the means of speech should be stuck in a position of content neutrality, and I'm sympathetic to both that and "yeah let's just explicitly suppress racism et al." - I think there are tactical situations where either is appropriate - but of course what some people want is for their saying "why did we let a baboon in the White House... #whitegenocide" to be non-coercive free speech and "gently caress off nazi" to be suppressing, and yeah, that's special pleading. There's certainly no (nearby) world where people don't shut up because they're afraid of social censure, so if your free speech ideals are trying to achieve that, something's gotten confused. I guess we define the means of speech differently since I'd consider it the internet itself, which is (mostly) content neutral. Like yes you won't be able to have the major platforms accept your poo poo but it's not like Conservapedia isn't a thing that exists, you know?
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May 2, 2016 19:06
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A mention from Nick Land. (Phil sent him a preview copy.) Nothing not inane in the comments as yet.
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May 2, 2016 19:12
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Parallel Paraplegic posted:I guess we define the means of speech differently since I'd consider it the internet itself, which is (mostly) content neutral. Like yes you won't be able to have the major platforms accept your poo poo but it's not like Conservapedia isn't a thing that exists, you know? Hmm. I think the intuition I'm going for is that it applies where you have a network externality? Facebook, Twitter, et al. are natural monopolies. Per above, I'm not averse to saying that assymmetric, explicit suppression is bad in all cases (even by the state!) but it seems to me that Mark Zuckerberg hypothetically banning all socialists from his website is a matter of public concern in a way that Mencius Moldbug doing the same on his blog is not. The latter is necessary to allow productive echo chambers to exist, while the former something different.
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May 2, 2016 19:14
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Where I see this sort of tension come up most often is when there's some high profile firing for a person in a position of power saying bigoted poo poo. Left and right then seem to adopt the reasoning of their opposites: liberals will say that the First Amendment only protects you from the government - sometimes without anyone else having mentioned the First Amendment, merely "freedom of speech," as if they are synonymous - and implicitly uphold the right of employers to terminate employment for any reason. Conservatives, though, will suddenly be oddly sensitive to how the need to keep one's job circumscribes the free exercise of one's rights. The only reconciliation I can find to this is that in exercising one's right to express an opinion, no one can be safe from others exercising their right to express a contrary opinion. When it comes to employment, though, it needs to be clear that firing a bigot is not due to a "difference of opinion," but rather because of the risk it suggests that a bigoted employee, especially a manager or someone in some other position of power, might violate the rights of other employees or of customers who are a part of the group the bigot discriminates against.
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May 2, 2016 19:20
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divabot posted:A mention from Nick Land. (Phil sent him a preview copy.) Nothing not inane in the comments as yet. Technically I think literacy is happening on that page but we can't be sure.
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May 2, 2016 19:49
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Oligopsony posted:Hmm.
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May 2, 2016 20:00
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I think the real secret is that they're fine with whatever system protects and defends their opinion while suppressing the opinions of others, and that whatever excuse system is necessary to achieve that goal is the one that will be adopted.
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May 2, 2016 20:11
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Jack Gladney posted:Would be fun if reactos started reading Foucault for ammunition. It could probably be done, Foucault took a weird turn really late in his career and started going off on the possibility of finding points of liberation/resistance in neoliberalism and singing it's praises. In retrospect, it's almost a mercy he died when he did, I've got the feeling that otherwise he would have pulled a Zizek.
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May 2, 2016 20:31
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Oligopsony posted:Well, I do think it's coherent to say that the owners of the means of speech should be stuck in a position of content neutrality, and I'm sympathetic to both that and "yeah let's just explicitly suppress racism et al." - I think there are tactical situations where either is appropriate - but of course what some people want is for their saying "why did we let a baboon in the White House... #whitegenocide" to be non-coercive free speech and "gently caress off nazi" to be suppressing, and yeah, that's special pleading. There's certainly no (nearby) world where people don't shut up because they're afraid of social censure, so if your free speech ideals are trying to achieve that, something's gotten confused. I'm looking forward to running a spambot on every comment section of every website in this future scenario and cry about how my free speech is being oppressed when my accounts get banned.
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May 2, 2016 20:36
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Hellequin posted:It could probably be done, Foucault took a weird turn really late in his career and started going off on the possibility of finding points of liberation/resistance in neoliberalism and singing it's praises. In retrospect, it's almost a mercy he died when he did, I've got the feeling that otherwise he would have pulled a Zizek. Martha Nussbaum posted:Foucault, we should remember, cheered for the Ayatollah, and why not? That, too, was resistance, and there was indeed nothing in the text to tell us that that struggle was less worthy than a struggle for civil rights and civil liberties.
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May 3, 2016 02:27
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Nessus posted:I think the real secret is that they're fine with whatever system protects and defends their opinion while suppressing the opinions of others, and that whatever excuse system is necessary to achieve that goal is the one that will be adopted. Bingo. Whatever version of free speech they're using this particular moment isn't something they value on any level higher than "what will possibly protect me at this very moment"
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May 3, 2016 02:28
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Yup, that's pretty much what I was getting at. Actually this is a pretty good article that delves into some of the problems with Foucault's theory from a political standpoint (i.e. his political stances frequently shifted from left to right seemingly at whim). https://www.jacobinmag.com/2014/12/foucault-interview/
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May 3, 2016 03:46
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The Vosgian Beast posted:Bingo. Whatever version of free speech they're using this particular moment isn't something they value on any level higher than "what will possibly protect me at this very moment"
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May 3, 2016 05:25
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Totalitarianism is only a bad thing when it's done to me  . When I do it to other people, it's a-ok because I'm an enlightened nerdmenchse that the ruling class is totally going to accept.
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May 3, 2016 05:28
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A White Guy posted:Totalitarianism is only a bad thing when it's done to me Look, when you can prove to me that an anime figurine and Bitcoin-based economy isn't viable, I will eat my fedora live on camera
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May 3, 2016 08:07
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Heath posted:Look, when you can prove to me that an anime figurine and Bitcoin-based economy isn't viable, I will eat my fedora live on camera An anime figurine-based currency might work if shame is a stabilizing force on the exchange rate.
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May 3, 2016 10:08
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Phil Sandifer has a preview up of Theses on Trump. Apparently this is podcast week and the one with me is going out tomorrow morning NY time. And the third excerpt from the book (actually the fourth, but who's counting?) should be up tomorrow.
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May 3, 2016 14:45
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divabot posted:Phil Sandifer has a preview up of Theses on Trump. Apparently this is podcast week and the one with me is going out tomorrow morning NY time. And the third excerpt from the book (actually the fourth, but who's counting?) should be up tomorrow. What channel are the podcasts on?
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May 3, 2016 14:48
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Oligopsony posted:What channel are the podcasts on? No idea, I'll let everyone know! In bonus content, Phil just linked this article on the plight of the independent academic, i.e. him, and talking about this project.
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May 3, 2016 18:37
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Double post, but I bring the content! Another book excerpt, this one on the concept of pwnage. And for all those jonesing for a preview, Phil extends the Social Media Shill offer: "if you can credibly claim that you’d get information about the book out in front of people who don’t already read Eruditorum Press and follow me on social media, get in touch and I’ll happily consider sending you a preview copy."
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May 3, 2016 21:42
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Oh my god, this is perfect https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbUA49BMSbw Parody of "Rocking MrE" He even gets the speaking rhythm right.
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May 4, 2016 01:26
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Where the gently caress does that dude's accent come from? It's like someone decided to merge the worst British accent with the most grating New England accent to create the most annoying form of voice production imaginable.
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May 4, 2016 03:02
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Ddraig posted:Oh my god, this is perfect 
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May 4, 2016 03:18
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Ddraig posted:Oh my god, this is perfect Wow! Even the description of this video is a fallacious lefty straw-man! I'm neither an AnCap or an MRA, you ninny! But you really do have the most annoyingly slimy, weasel-like face and manner to you. I initially wondered whether this would actually dignify a video response. But then I fast-forwarded through this absurdity and found there was nothing to respond to. Furthermore, a response would require that I care enough to watch the entirety of a 15 minute postmodern pile of ad hominem garbage, where reality is shaped by opinion and emotion. Obviously there would be no getting through to you and your Borg audience, whatever I said, but I would make you look like a twit to the world at large, and that would be fun! P.S. I'm sure your servile deference to women gets you no respect in practice, even as you lie about the notion that this stay-at-home dad thinks women have no rights. Meanwhile I'm very happily married, have two wonderful daughters, and unlike you I don't think that marriage is some sort of bourgeois trap of false consciousness that stands in the way of your creepy communist orgy cult. But good luck lying about people to get in the good books of feminists that are too sociopathic to ever love anyone but themselves. I'm sure love will find a way though, and all that! P.P.S. Nice intro! Who wrote it? P.P.P.S. What a lovely middle-class, bourgeois house you have, you northern man of the people! As a side note, I control this thread. So don't bother trolling it lefties, unless you want your comment removed, and your account blocked. Show less Reply70
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May 4, 2016 03:39
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Woolie Wool posted:Where the gently caress does that dude's accent come from? It's like someone decided to merge the worst British accent with the most grating New England accent to create the most annoying form of voice production imaginable. He's (badly) affecting a Mid-Atlantic accent.
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May 4, 2016 04:53
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The Vosgian Beast posted:Wow! Even the description of this video is a fallacious lefty straw-man! I'm neither an AnCap or an MRA, you ninny! But you really do have the most annoyingly slimy, weasel-like face and manner to you. Ahahaha, goddamn that is some serious rear anger.
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May 4, 2016 05:16
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The Vosgian Beast posted:Wow! Even the description of this video is a fallacious lefty straw-man! I'm neither an AnCap or an MRA, you ninny! But you really do have the most annoyingly slimy, weasel-like face and manner to you. Show less Show less
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May 4, 2016 06:10
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quote:I initially wondered whether this would actually dignify a video response. But then I fast-forwarded through this absurdity and found there was nothing to respond to. Furthermore, a response would require that I care enough to watch the entirety of a 15 minute postmodern pile of ad hominem garbage, where reality is shaped by opinion and emotion. Obviously there would be no getting through to you and your Borg audience, whatever I said, but I would make you look like a twit to the world at large, and that would be fun! "I'm just letting you know that I don't care enough about you to dignify you with a reply. If I did, though, I would totally destroy you and kick sand in your face and everyone would laugh at your rhetorical pantsing. But I'm not gonna bother. You're beneath me. B-Baka! It's not like I want you to reply or anything!" SatansOnion has a new favorite as of 06:56 on May 4, 2016 |
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May 4, 2016 06:52
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Oh Hell No posted:He's (badly) affecting a Mid-Atlantic accent. I think he's just Scottish
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May 4, 2016 08:58
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Ahahaha he even randomly pops into black and white for no reason like WhiningMrE does. This is amazing.
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May 4, 2016 10:33
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The Vosgian Beast posted:Wow! Even the description of this video is a fallacious lefty straw-man! I'm neither an AnCap or an MRA, you ninny! But you really do have the most annoyingly slimy, weasel-like face and manner to you. Oi, Dumb-Dumb! Communists are in a creepy orgy cult because they want to eradicate the family and monogamy, and have open relationships with one another. Of course, the Great Leader gets the best bits, but either way, THIS is a creepy orgy cult, and "capitalists" try to do the opposite to this because it creates loving bonds and societal stability. You might also want to note that this is exactly the same as basically all cults in history, the Manson Family, for example. They rail against the family in exactly the same way as totalitarians like you. My thread is my own space. I have control of it, stupid! That is how Google designed it. You can't argue with that because it's self-evident. They set it up like that, so that users can do what I do, if they choose. Then again, facts are impervious to your Pavlovian conditioning, as is always the case for you Lefties.
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May 4, 2016 10:51
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Ahahaha I just noticed that Rocking Mystery Machine then continues to reply in the comments accusing everyone of being cultists and using logical fallacies. So mangry.
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May 4, 2016 11:15
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J_RBG posted:I think he's just Scottish It's a Welsh accent but a really bizarre one, mostly due To His bizarre CADENCE, speech Patterns and Mannerisms "gesticulates wildly in front of camera" edit: That's Rocking MrE himself, the parody guy is Scottish
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May 4, 2016 12:47
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