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I really dig Dany's storyline because I find it interesting to look at the reality behind the "fun" part that is the conquest. She wants to rule, so she assembles an army and conquers various lands.... but after that she has to rule them, and that poo poo is a lot harder. It doesn't make for as exciting television as the other storylines going on, but of all the various rulers she is the one who actually seems to be getting experience/taking seriously the idea that her kingdom/empire isn't just a prize to be won, but something that has to be maintained/kept afterwards. It's also interesting to see her attempts to moderate and be diplomatic as she brings others into line war with her inclination to just want to destroy anything that gets in her way. It's easily overlooked since it's followed by Tyrion going down to see the dragons, but I really liked the prior scene where they're discussing the state of things in Dany's absence and Varys tells Tyrion that they've lost the rest of Slaver's Bay and all Dany's hard-won gains have been lost in her absence. Taking this poo poo is the "easy" part, keeping your hands on it afterwards is far harder, and so far Dany (and Tyrion to a lesser extent, from his time as Acting Hand of the King) is the only one who has actually tried to address that. Way back in season 1, Robert at least understood the concept, even if his bitterness meant he mostly ignored his duties in regards to keeping the Kingdoms solvent.
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May 4, 2016 01:13
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Zaphod42 posted:Also they let loving Barristan Selmy die. What in the gently caress? You guys are supposed to be good fighters of renown, but so far the show makes them look completely worthless. Dany'd be better off with just the second sons. I was fine with Barristan Selmy's death. He talked a big game against the other Kingsguard who threatened him in season 1, but it could have been bluffing. Just about every other legendary fighter has tended to have a bad time when they were ambushed or outnumbered, from Syrio to Jaime to Brienne.
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May 4, 2016 01:14
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Dr Christmas posted:I was fine with Barristan Selmy's death. He talked a big game against the other Kingsguard who threatened him in season 1, but it could have been bluffing. Just about every other legendary fighter has tended to have a bad time when they were ambushed or outnumbered, from Syrio to Jaime to Brienne. He's not bluffing, which we know from other fighters like Jaime talking about him. I'm fine with him dying being outnumbered, but what I'm saying is the show makes the unsullied look incompetent and like they fell for a simple trap and got owned easy and that's why Selmy got surrounded in the first place, which pisses me off. Also scenes like Daario being all "fear is good" and making grey worm look like an idiot. kiimo posted:I was gonna say people should let go of their criticisms of TV show fight choreography but then Daredevil exists so maybe everyone should up their loving game. I'm with this guy.
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May 4, 2016 01:16
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Dr Christmas posted:Just about every other legendary fighter has tended to have a bad time when they were ambushed or outnumbered, from Syrio to Jaime to Brienne. But they're all still alive.
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May 4, 2016 01:16
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Dr Christmas posted:I was fine with Barristan Selmy's death. He talked a big game against the other Kingsguard who threatened him in season 1, but it could have been bluffing. Just about every other legendary fighter has tended to have a bad time when they were ambushed or outnumbered, from Syrio to Jaime to Brienne. Not to mention he's a classically trained medieval knight who got caught on the hop without armor, wielding a clunky longsword in a tight enclosed corridor against a mob of dudes with knives. Like yeah, Selmey in full plate in an open field could probably cut down quite a few guys, but given the circumstances he was ambushed under, it would have been stupider for him to get out of it unscathed.
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May 4, 2016 01:20
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Whatever else was true of Barristan, and I'm saying this as somebody who found him likable, 1) Cersei was right that he was loving old, which has a tendency to take a toll on anybody's fitness and 2) if the idea is that his experience and wisdom make up for his age, it's probably worth noting that a whole lot of kings have been assassinated on his watch.
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May 4, 2016 01:22
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Zombies' Downfall posted:Whatever else was true of Barristan, and I'm saying this as somebody who found him likable, 1) Cersei was right that he was loving old, which has a tendency to take a toll on anybody's fitness and 2) if the idea is that his experience and wisdom make up for his age, it's probably worth noting that a whole lot of kings have been assassinated on his watch. To be fair he had a pretty good excuse for the first one - he was in hospital for kicking too much rear end.
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May 4, 2016 01:23
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Jerusalem posted:To be fair he had a pretty good excuse for the first one - he was in hospital for kicking too much rear end. Yeah and for some reason I was counting Joffrey when I posted that even though he was long gone at that point (prolly because I was posting a while back about how the King's Guard in general seems pretty bad at what's presumably their most important duty)
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May 4, 2016 01:25
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Dany's story is boring because so much of it revolves around the actual morals and politics of being a ruler instead of the art of shanking fools in a surprising manner. Her book story is kinda boring too, but I actually think the transport to the Dothraki capital zone is going to be interesting. Namely everywhere she's been she's completely subverted the social norms and I expect this to be no different. I would wager they're basically aiming for her to reclaim/forge a spot as top dog across Essos by getting the Dothraki back on board + her dragons, those other places are gonna fall in line fast. Wild speculation on my part. Anytime a character's story requires lots of talking in large rooms from chairs it's gonna come across as a bit boring. That said everything is getting way more fractured as we continue, not more consolidated as I kinda expected it to. We are deep into a story the producers have said doesn't have much more left for them to flesh out/wrap up, and like lots of folks have mentioned it doesn't feel like really anyone is making appreciable headway towards the finish. (Winter vs Summer, Ice vs Fire, Zombies vs Dragons). I have liked the 2 episodes this season. It's felt fast, but there are a lot of subtle clues that reading this thread and other such things has been cool to see/dive into maybe more so than the earlier seasons. Or perhaps I just didn't see them as often before.
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May 4, 2016 01:36
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Zaphod42 posted:Dany's dragons? Good question... they all have masculine names I think. That would be pretty significant if she had a female and could start breeding more. If she doesn't though then hers are destined to be the last? I didn't even think of that. All of the dragons are genderless dragons don't have a gender and just kind of lay eggs in GoT. And Dorne sucked because they had like one day to film due to where they filmed it(Maybe don't pick a major tourist spot in the middle of tourist season next time) and the script writing was terrible. The Notorious ZSB posted:Anytime a character's story requires lots of talking in large rooms from chairs it's gonna come across as a bit boring. Tyrions whole time as hand was mostly this it's the script not Dorne or Mareen. SirKibbles fucked around with this message at 01:39 on May 4, 2016 |
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May 4, 2016 01:36
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SirKibbles posted:Tyrions whole time as hand was mostly this it's the script not Dorne or Mareen. I mostly attribute this to Peter Dinklage being way more charismatic than Dany's actress ever has been. His scenes had lots of opportunity to be boring, he just isn't.
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May 4, 2016 01:47
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Also the wider ramifications of his actions in King's Landing were pretty clear, while you could just cut the entire Eastern storyline and not really miss it.
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May 4, 2016 01:49
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Remember how exciting the invasion of Stannis' fleet was? Where all these actors on both sides were warring and you didn't know who to root for and it was insanely fun and scary? I mean if you are a book reader maybe not but for the rest of us that was crazy. Let's do that again before we kill off any more characters we care about. I know it will be expensive but c'mon it will make television history.
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May 4, 2016 01:55
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Zombies' Downfall posted:Yeah and for some reason I was counting Joffrey when I posted that even though he was long gone at that point (prolly because I was posting a while back about how the King's Guard in general seems pretty bad at what's presumably their most important duty) They are, but that's kinda the point. The organization is a shadow of its former self, chiefly because the Lannisters are filling it up with loyal toadies like the late Meryn "loving" Trant instead of the actual Best Of The Best. And they've been doing this since Robert's reign. The result is it's become the joke of an organization we see instead of the honorable position it used to be, and has now utterly failed to fulfill it's mission statement with 3 kings in a row. It may or may not be meant to parallel the Decline Due To Neglect we've seen befall the Night's Watch
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May 4, 2016 02:01
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kiimo posted:Remember how exciting the invasion of Stannis' fleet was? Where all these actors on both sides were warring and you didn't know who to root for and it was insanely fun and scary? I mean if you are a book reader maybe not but for the rest of us that was crazy. What if as soon as the Starks start winning and we have Queen Sansa, that's when Dany and Tyrion finally decide to invade. That would be fun.
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May 4, 2016 02:31
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Super Ninja Fish posted:What if as soon as the Starks start winning and we have Queen Sansa, that's when Dany and Tyrion finally decide to invade. That would be fun. Tyrion: awk-waaaard! *shrugs into freeze frame as 'Shout' begins to play]
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May 4, 2016 02:52
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The Notorious ZSB posted:Dany's story is boring because so much of it revolves around the actual morals and politics of being a ruler instead of the art of shanking fools in a surprising manner. Her book story is kinda boring too, but I actually think the transport to the Dothraki capital zone is going to be interesting. Dany's "story" is jogging in place for roughly four books/five seasons. On top of that, she's extremely haughty for someone who has accomplished literally nothing but chaos as a ruler and frequently goes back on her word to contradict her stated goals and morals, but I guess I'd be the same if every male I encountered treated me as a Mary Sue. I hope she dies in rags.
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May 4, 2016 02:55
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:Dany's "story" is jogging in place for roughly four books/five seasons. On top of that, she's extremely haughty for someone who has accomplished literally nothing but chaos as a ruler and frequently goes back on her word to contradict her stated goals and morals, but I guess I'd be the same if every male I encountered treated me as a Mary Sue. Dany's a lot like Rob in that both are good people, with good ideals, who are ultimately poo poo at actually ruling. The difference is that Rob's story only took two seasons and was actually important.
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May 4, 2016 03:03
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:I hope she dies in rags. We can agree on this I suppose.
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May 4, 2016 04:20
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So it occurs to me that the Karstarks have a good chance to be the next great northern power. Unlike pretty much everyone else they still have their army (cause they ran home), and it was one of the biggest in the first place. They probably aren't hated? They ran home, but it was cause their lord was killed, does that make other lords more understanding? I don't know, but they definitely aren't the Boltons. Their current lord also seems to be really ambitious. He wasn't surprised that Ramsey killed Roose, so I started wondering if he even encouraged it, as Roose was pretty much the guy holding the Bolton north together, despite being hated. Also Stark is right there in their name, so other northerners might already be drawn to them?
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May 4, 2016 04:23
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Sydin posted:Dany's a lot like Rob in that both are good people, with good ideals, who are ultimately poo poo at actually ruling. The difference is that Rob's story only took two seasons and was actually important. Except Robb was good at heart and honorable, so much so that it doomed him. Dany on the other hand is one step away from being a tyrannical maniac.
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May 4, 2016 04:29
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Robb was an honorable person who screwed things up real bad, but it was great because he was written and acted out well. On the other hand you have Dany stomping her feet and going "I am Daenarys Stormborn, of the old blood of valyria blah blah blah" in the most canned way possible every time she doesn't get her way. It can get old after a while iSqueezeCats fucked around with this message at 05:08 on May 4, 2016 |
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May 4, 2016 05:04
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Except Robb was good at heart and honorable, so much so that it doomed him. Dany on the other hand is one step away from being a tyrannical maniac. One step... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpCocBknqWI edit. Daario's plan is totally without issue as well haha.
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May 4, 2016 05:07
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Aurium posted:So it occurs to me that the Karstarks have a good chance to be the next great northern power. They are (super) distant Stark cousins [probably a cadet branch stemming from a second/bastard son way back when], hence their name. Rickard (the epic beard man from Season 3) referenced this and called down the Kinslayer Curse on Robb shortly before he was beheaded. Obviously since they're so far removed that they even have a modified name, they'd normally be nowhere near contention for a claim on Winterfell. But this is no longer "normally". If our unnamed Ramsay Henchman/Young Lord Karstark is ambitious, he might well be thinking along these lines. They are, after all, in this very episode, listed as one of the remaining Big Dogs in the north as far as martial might/manpower. Of course, we viewers know there's still quite a few actual main line Starks still alive and ahead of them after all, so his ambition may not bear as much fruit as he might hope.
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May 4, 2016 05:10
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:Dany's "story" is jogging in place for roughly four books/five seasons. On top of that, she's extremely haughty for someone who has accomplished literally nothing but chaos as a ruler and frequently goes back on her word to contradict her stated goals and morals, but I guess I'd be the same if every male I encountered treated me as a Mary Sue. Unless Dany is the villain. The last scion of a deposed tyrannical family returning with a foreign army and dragons to conquer a weakened and divided Kingdom. Sounds like a villain to me. Zombies' Downfall posted:Whatever else was true of Barristan, and I'm saying this as somebody who found him likable, 1) Cersei was right that he was loving old, which has a tendency to take a toll on anybody's fitness and 2) if the idea is that his experience and wisdom make up for his age, it's probably worth noting that a whole lot of kings have been assassinated on his watch. In the books he kills the 2 men they send to arrest him with a dinning knife.  Barristan's character is all a play on the saying "There are Old Knights and there are Bold Knights. But there are no Old, Bold Knights.". He is an Old, Bold Knight.
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May 4, 2016 05:50
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kiimo posted:Remember how exciting the invasion of Stannis' fleet was? Where all these actors on both sides were warring and you didn't know who to root for and it was insanely fun and scary? I mean if you are a book reader maybe not but for the rest of us that was crazy. It still boggles my mind that anyone was rooting for the guy who casually set his own family on fire Shimrra Jamaane posted:Except Robb was good at heart and honorable, so much so that it doomed him. Dany on the other hand is one step away from being a tyrannical maniac. With ya on Dany, but Robb actually wasn't honorable and that's why he got killed. Honor involves doing poo poo you don'wanna (say, marrying the lady you promised to marry) vyelkin posted:Don't think this is true. If I remember, the prophecy also included something about "Yeah you'll be queen, but haha oh wait at some point someone younger and smarter and better comes along and even takes that away, sucks to be you." Cersei seems pretty convinced that's Margaery. You're right. I forgot that that was also a prophecy (although "you will age and lose influence"is hardly a phophecy). But I don't think the're related; Margaery is a threat to Cersei's station, but not her children (or, honestly, she'd be dead already). Zaphod42 posted:Does that clear it up? Root for Dany and gently caress the rest of em. But Daario seems pretty cool. Dany is a bad person and worse ruler though Also comparing the Unsullied to the Sand Snakes is super weird.
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May 4, 2016 06:08
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kiimo posted:I was gonna say people should let go of their criticisms of TV show fight choreography but then Daredevil exists so maybe everyone should up their loving game. I recommend Vikings. It has excellent one on one fight scenes as well as excellent larger battles. Really makes GOT look amateurish by comparison.
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May 4, 2016 06:25
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For all Dany's faults, she seems to be the one person on the entire planet who's had the thought "Hey, maybe slavery isn't such a good thing."
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May 4, 2016 07:05
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Maxwell Lord posted:For all Dany's faults, she seems to be the one person on the entire planet who's had the thought "Hey, maybe slavery isn't such a good thing." Ned outlawed slavery in the North, that's why Jorah had to flee in exile.
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May 4, 2016 07:14
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Maxwell Lord posted:For all Dany's faults, she seems to be the one person on the entire planet who's had the thought "Hey, maybe slavery isn't such a good thing." The Westerosi and the Braavosi.
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May 4, 2016 07:15
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Bobo the Red posted:Dany is a bad person and worse ruler though Uh, why? She's the most benign ruler left on the show, and her errors have come from her naivety and idealism, unlike the other pretenders. Is it because she wants the Iron Throne? poo poo, everybody wants the Iron Throne. She's the one with the strongest "legal" claim for whatever that's worth.
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May 4, 2016 07:49
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Ned outlawed slavery in the North, that's why Jorah had to flee in exile. It's illegal in Westeros as a whole; I'm sure Ned was extra-conscientious about upholding the ban, though.
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May 4, 2016 08:28
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Dany hasn't come to Westeros yet because she's going to swoop in and save the day when the white walkers reach the trident.
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May 4, 2016 08:42
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Xae posted:Unless Dany is the villain. Essentially the writing would have to get a lot more self-aware very quickly in a show that lost all sense of subtlety as soon as they went past the books.
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May 4, 2016 08:49
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Dany is the only character in a position of power who has ever compromised what she truly wanted because it was the right thing to do. Like, she wanted to go to King's Landing a long time ago and had the ability to do so after taking Mereen, but she realized that if she did leave then Mereen would be insta-hosed. I mean, Mereen is going to be hosed probably, but hey, she tried, and at least they got a year or two of freedom before the refuckening. That's got to be worth something, right? Or maybe she just considers Mereen to be college and she intends to learn her trade, gently caress pretty weirdos and then after 4 years she will tear out of there and never look back.
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May 4, 2016 08:50
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Wizchine posted:Uh, why? She's the most benign ruler left on the show, and her errors have come from her naivety and idealism, unlike the other pretenders. Is it because she wants the Iron Throne? poo poo, everybody wants the Iron Throne. She's the one with the strongest "legal" claim for whatever that's worth. I will answer atrocity with different atrocity.
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May 4, 2016 09:27
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ParliamentOfDogs posted:Dany is the only character in a position of power who has ever compromised what she truly wanted because it was the right thing to do. Like, she wanted to go to King's Landing a long time ago and had the ability to do so after taking Mereen, but she realized that if she did leave then Mereen would be insta-hosed. I mean, Mereen is going to be hosed probably, but hey, she tried, and at least they got a year or two of freedom before the refuckening. That's got to be worth something, right? I mean, other than Jon, Tyrion, and perhaps Arya, though that has yet to be resolved. Dany made "compromises" (brutal dictatorial measures) in order to continue ruling (badly). There's pretty much no one happy with her rule except a small legion of eunuchs. This will all turn into something somewhere, but good god this entire arc just drags its feet on everything, and her oblivious Cinderella act rings false against the backdrop of the show.
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May 4, 2016 09:28
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:I mean, other than Jon, Tyrion, and perhaps Arya, though that has yet to be resolved. Dany made "compromises" (brutal dictatorial measures) in order to continue ruling (badly). There's pretty much no one happy with her rule except a small legion of eunuchs. Arya isn't in a position of power and I'm not sure when Tyrion sacrificed things he truly desired for the (intended) benefit of the common people. You got me on Jon though. What were Dany's brutal dictatorial measures though? All I really remember her doing was abolishing slave fights and executing murderers and slave owners. She comes off more as an inexperienced and poorly advised ruler in an impossibly difficult quagmire then a blood thirsty tyrant. I mean, I wish she was. The show is much better when Dany gets her blood up and starts dracarysing the ever living poo poo out of things.
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May 4, 2016 09:47
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Advice posted:What emotion am I supposed to be feeling vis a vis Jorah and Dany? He pines for her, she pines for Daario, honestly she's never appeared even slightly interested in him, and frankly even his affection feels forced, like he developed it in an afternoon mid season 3 because he realized she was the only white woman around or something. Am I supposed to be rooting for either of them? I dunno, I decree that you are free to have whatever reaction you like.
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May 4, 2016 09:59
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ParliamentOfDogs posted:What were Dany's brutal dictatorial measures though? All I really remember her doing was executing slave owners. That's a brutal dictatorial measure. She swept into an area and whole slaughtered the native population for refusing to immediately tear up the way of life they had engaged in for millenia. Whether you agree with her position on slavery or not doesn't matter, it's the heavy handed and immature manner of enforcement.
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May 4, 2016 11:28
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