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net cafe scandal
Mar 18, 2011

Ya Undead Hunter Charms need a buff. Thankfully all
my qualms with this game are things you could probably fix by changing an integer somewhere. I hope the DLC adds some not lovely lances, as well.

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Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

Mimingless posted:

So the mileage I was getting out of my 15 Faith wasn't very high - the 188 Spell Buff Storyteller's Staff barely outdamaged the Izalith Staff for normal spells, but the effect on Dark spells was very much there. There's a dark-damage boosting element to the Izalith Staff that doesn't care what your Faith is - and it was definitely stronger than the Dark Clutch ring when the gap between the Court and Izalith's spell buff was smaller. Hope that helps out, maybe the gap is smaller at like 60 Int, but Izalith is significantly better for dark spells even at low Faith for me at 50.
Very interesting, thanks for the tests! I am not yet sure what I'll do for NG+, but that certainly would open up a few more fun options. I'd love to specialize in Dark for a change, with the single problem that the specialization might be a little much - after all, while there are certainly enough Dark spells overall, there are not that many Dark Sorceries...though it should still be enough, all things considered.

Tallgeese
May 11, 2008

MAKE LOVE, NOT WAR


net cafe scandal posted:

Ya Undead Hunter Charms need a buff. Thankfully all
my qualms with this game are things you could probably fix by changing an integer somewhere. I hope the DLC adds some not lovely lances, as well.

Yeah.

One integer in the item parameters to change the animation.

One float in the bullet parameters to change the bullet tracking.

One float in the special effect parameters to change how long the estus block lasts.

Done. Hell, I can do it.

boy are my arms tired
May 10, 2012

Ham Wrangler
if from makes fists decent i'll be the happiest camper ever

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

voltron lion force posted:

When you see the invader message you get like 3 seconds to heal then estus is disabled for everyone.

Too punishing on the host. All an invader has to do then is just find someplace to hide and the host now has to go through the level without Estus.

Tallgeese posted:

Well, they could switch Undead Hunter Charm to have the rope firebomb throwing animation.

All this would do though is make people run around longer until UHC wore off though.

Solid point.

I'm kind of at a loss for what to do about fast healing in PvP. In Bloodborne, you could punish it if you were quick because you could parry the healing animation, and that worked because your parrying instrument is ranged. That wouldn't work in DS3. Maybe a special kind of throwing knife--Undead Hunter Knife--that exists only to parry the Estus animation? Would suck for casters who need Ashen Estus, though.

Shindragon
Jun 6, 2011

by Athanatos

I always love the mimic's grab animations. it's like oh you decided to fight it, welp hope you don't get dragon kicked or grabbed. :v:

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

Rafza posted:

if from makes fists decent i'll be the happiest camper ever
Trying out the spin attack for the Demon Fists the first time broke my heart a little :(.

Eldred
Feb 19, 2004
Weight gain is impossible.
Is it me or is boss HP really low in this? I'm coming from Bloodborne+DLC where you really had to earn those wins but all the bosses after Vordt have felt like paper relative to how quickly AR can scale up in this game. I'm using a Heavy Dark Sword +7 and just beat Aldrich, I'm thinking of choosing a handicap weapon for bosses just to make them last longer.

I'm not expecting the difficulty to match the DLC content in Bloodborne, and really I think their attack patterns are complicated and damaging enough. I just wish the bosses all had 50% more health or so.

LazyMaybe
Aug 18, 2013

oouagh
If you don't use an optimized weapon it's entirely different. Which I suppose is what it's balanced for, most players are not gonna know what weapons are best and most players are pretty bad at upgrading stuff/finding upgrade materials.

Kiggles
Dec 30, 2007

Eldred posted:

Is it me or is boss HP really low in this? I'm coming from Bloodborne+DLC where you really had to earn those wins but all the bosses after Vordt have felt like paper relative to how quickly AR can scale up in this game. I'm using a Heavy Dark Sword +7 and just beat Aldrich, I'm thinking of choosing a handicap weapon for bosses just to make them last longer.

I'm not expecting the difficulty to match the DLC content in Bloodborne, and really I think their attack patterns are complicated and damaging enough. I just wish the bosses all had 50% more health or so.

literally summon someone then Black crystal them as soon as you get through the fog

net cafe scandal
Mar 18, 2011

Eldred posted:

Is it me or is boss HP really low in this? I'm coming from Bloodborne+DLC where you really had to earn those wins but all the bosses after Vordt have felt like paper relative to how quickly AR can scale up in this game. I'm using a Heavy Dark Sword +7 and just beat Aldrich, I'm thinking of choosing a handicap weapon for bosses just to make them last longer.

I'm not expecting the difficulty to match the DLC content in Bloodborne, and really I think their attack patterns are complicated and damaging enough. I just wish the bosses all had 50% more health or so.

Dark Sword shits on everything to be fair

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Eldred posted:

Is it me or is boss HP really low in this? I'm coming from Bloodborne+DLC where you really had to earn those wins but all the bosses after Vordt have felt like paper relative to how quickly AR can scale up in this game. I'm using a Heavy Dark Sword +7 and just beat Aldrich, I'm thinking of choosing a handicap weapon for bosses just to make them last longer.

I'm not expecting the difficulty to match the DLC content in Bloodborne, and really I think their attack patterns are complicated and damaging enough. I just wish the bosses all had 50% more health or so.

Found your problem.

Although, I would say that I thought boss HP was too low in the first half, especially Abyss Watchers, and recanted that shortly after Aldrich. (Yhorm doesn't count for obvious reasons, or reasons that will be obvious when you reach him.) The optional bosses available once you reach Lothric Castle, as well as the last few story bosses, have enough HP that I didn't feel like I could burn them down before they became a credible threat, which is how I felt about Abyss Watchers. And "enough HP that they don't get burned down before they're a threat" is exactly the right amount for them to have.

They definitely went for a steadier boss difficulty climb this time, which, according to a recent interview with Miyazaki, was entirely intentional.

Harrow fucked around with this message at 19:32 on May 4, 2016

Viperix
Apr 21, 2006

Eldred posted:

Is it me or is boss HP really low in this? I'm coming from Bloodborne+DLC where you really had to earn those wins but all the bosses after Vordt have felt like paper relative to how quickly AR can scale up in this game. I'm using a Heavy Dark Sword +7 and just beat Aldrich, I'm thinking of choosing a handicap weapon for bosses just to make them last longer.

I'm not expecting the difficulty to match the DLC content in Bloodborne, and really I think their attack patterns are complicated and damaging enough. I just wish the bosses all had 50% more health or so.

Yeah, try using anything but the Dark Sword.

Malek Deneith
Jun 1, 2011

voltcatfish posted:

No, the estus is
Yes, because the better alternative is to have a system where host has healing as normal but invader has nothing, or alternatively invader has farmed 99 humanity/life gems. Estus itself is fine, at worst the speed of usage might need adjustment (well that or it needs to have iframes removed/reduced because the more I play the more I'm convinced there are some in the animation).

Viperix posted:

Yeah, try using anything but the Dark Sword.
The funny thing about Dark Sword is that I've used it but recently switched to Carthus Curved Sword and... it's pretty much as good. Some ~13ish points less AR with 40/35 stats at the moment, same or better reach, pretty much the same and stamina usage, better R2... the weapon art is worse IMO but I get bleed as a consolation. Yet Dark Sword gets all the hate but pretty much nobody recognizes CSS as a thing.

Malek Deneith fucked around with this message at 19:36 on May 4, 2016

MMF Freeway
Sep 15, 2010

Later!
Ya know how in ds2 when you were a phantom your estus refilled hp at a super slow rate? Do that but for everyone during an invasion.

net cafe scandal
Mar 18, 2011

Yeah I really wish the Abyss Watchers had more HP. I guess it makes sense cuz they can easily be the third boss you fight

Gologle
Apr 15, 2013

The Gologle Posting Experience.

<3

I like how shocked your character's stance appears, like it can't even process what's going on. Like a red phantom getting butt blasted by a ghost.

kalel
Jun 19, 2012

for the respective points in the game that you reach them in, abyss watchers are much more difficult than aldrich

Grimalkin
Oct 2, 2008

RBA Starblade posted:

Haven't done that yet. Maybe I'm not going far enough into the dungeon area?

Are you kindled? He showed up for me right in the doorway of the dungeon.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

SciFiDownBeat posted:

for the respective points in the game that you reach them in, abyss watchers are much more difficult than aldrich

From the point of view of a brand new player, that's probably true. I had the opposite experience, though. Abyss Watchers were pretty easy for me, but Aldrich owned the hell out of me with that annoying arrow rain several times.

net cafe scandal
Mar 18, 2011

Me to.

turtlecrunch
May 14, 2013

Hesitation is defeat.
Does that Crystal Sage you fight in Crucifixion Woods still think it's fighting the good fight with the rest of the Abyss Watchers, or is there a specific reason it's blocking the way to the cathedral? Maybe it used to be friendly and say "don't go this way traveler, you'll get eaten by goo" and now it's hollow and protects travelers by murdering them first. :ohdear:

Meowywitch
Jan 14, 2010

Fight for all that is beautiful in the world


Bosses that I was probably supposed to have more trouble with but somehow beat on my first try: Pontiff Sulyvahn

StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

JetsGuy posted:

ladies and gentlemen, this is what happens when modern gaming holds your hand through everything. You know what made a lot of NES games fun? That you had to figure it all out on your own.

Dark Souls may be hard as gently caress at first but I'm glad I played through it and while I'm having a tough time on the sorcerer playthrough, I enjoy it in a weird way because it's challenging and fun.

EDIT:
I knew a guy who literally mapped out every single loving tree in Zelda and went around Xing them off burning them looking for the dungeons in second quest.

Play NES Zelda with maps and poo poo and it's super easy and lame. You know, like every Zelda game in the modern era.

source your quotes

net cafe scandal
Mar 18, 2011

Well thats just insane.

Szcwczuk
Dec 20, 2011

I ruin everything
Someone told me this was good?

StringOfLetters
Apr 2, 2007
What?

Simply Simon posted:

Very interesting, thanks for the tests! I am not yet sure what I'll do for NG+, but that certainly would open up a few more fun options. I'd love to specialize in Dark for a change, with the single problem that the specialization might be a little much - after all, while there are certainly enough Dark spells overall, there are not that many Dark Sorceries...though it should still be enough, all things considered.

'Specialize in dark' isn't quite a thing. You can,

Get a lot of int. Use the Scholar's or the Crystal spell stick. Do shitloads of magic damage, get the fanciest soul lasers. Be able to hit pretty hard with Pyromancy, too.

Get a lot of faith. Use a Talisman to shove un-interruptable lightning spears into faces. Get all the neatest miracle buffs. Your pyromancy damage will be poo poo unless you also get 20-ish int, because faith scaling doesn't kick in for pyromancy unless you meet a minimum int threshold, for some crazy reason.

Split int & faith. Kick rear end with Pyromancy, kick rear end with Dark spells. Be able to use the Crystal Chime to do quite good soul arrow & lightning spear damage, but without access to the highest tier spells. Note that the Crystal Chime is terrible with dark spells, despite its stats. Compared to a specialized int sorceror, your dark sorceries are going to be very similar, but slower, slightly weaker, and with more poise/stun impact.

Eldred
Feb 19, 2004
Weight gain is impossible.

voltcatfish posted:

Bosses that I was probably supposed to have more trouble with but somehow beat on my first try: Pontiff Sulyvahn

Mild boss mechanic spoilers: the "leash" mechanic they put on the clone he spawns made the fight a lot easier than it otherwise would have been. Most of the time I had an opportunity to hit the clone I happened to be hitting the real boss too, to the point where eventually it just wasn't worth it to even try to kill the clone since Sulyvahn's HP was melting

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

Eldred posted:

Mild boss mechanic spoilers: the "leash" mechanic they put on the clone he spawns made the fight a lot easier than it otherwise would have been. Most of the time I had an opportunity to hit the clone I happened to be hitting the real boss too, to the point where eventually it just wasn't worth it to even try to kill the clone since Sulyvahn's HP was melting
I won really easily by charging two-handed R2s twice as he summoned the clone, which killed the clone immediately before he could even start and also dealt a boatload of damage to the boss lmao

Kiggles
Dec 30, 2007

Eldred posted:

Mild boss mechanic spoilers: the "leash" mechanic they put on the clone he spawns made the fight a lot easier than it otherwise would have been. Most of the time I had an opportunity to hit the clone I happened to be hitting the real boss too, to the point where eventually it just wasn't worth it to even try to kill the clone since Sulyvahn's HP was melting

The second half of that fight is just the victory lap.

Eldred
Feb 19, 2004
Weight gain is impossible.

Viperix posted:

Yeah, try using anything but the Dark Sword.

Is it really a bad thing to pick a good weapon? People get so weird about playing these games the "right" way. Is the AR difference between Dark Sword and other weapons really that pronounced?

turtlecrunch
May 14, 2013

Hesitation is defeat.
It's more when people say "this boss was easy" but they summon or "this boss doesn't have enough HP" when they are using a god weapon that people are responding to.

Eldred
Feb 19, 2004
Weight gain is impossible.

turtlecrunch posted:

It's more when people say "this boss was easy" but they summon or "this boss doesn't have enough HP" when they are using a god weapon that people are responding to.

I didn't realize it was that out of the ordinary, I'd just heard it was a good weapon to pick up for mid game. It's still kind of bizarre to blame balance issues on the player though.

RBA Starblade
Apr 28, 2008

Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

Irithyll Dungeon might be my least favorite place in a souls game. It's annoying to navigate, the jump scares are a nuisance, and the jailers have one of the few instant kills in the game. Unless that's not supposed to happen.

e: Also it's real dumb how the actual curse gas effect on the basilisks hurts you, it's if you leave it

RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 20:20 on May 4, 2016

Dr. Abysmal
Feb 17, 2010

We're all doomed
I do think the Abyss Watchers could stand to be a little tougher, especially with how they're like human players and can be stunlocked, backstabbed, and parried. That one video of a Darkwraith sneaking into the room and defeating the first phase by himself comes to mind.

Deified Data
Nov 3, 2015


Fun Shoe

Eldred posted:

Is it really a bad thing to pick a good weapon? People get so weird about playing these games the "right" way. Is the AR difference between Dark Sword and other weapons really that pronounced?

The thing I'll miss the most from checking out of the Souls community to keep my first playthrough blind was not knowing which weapons were loved/reviled by the community or why, so if I picked up a weapon and liked it I could just use it instead of hearing how terrible/OP it is.

Now I can tell myself that if I ever want to use the estoc or the dark sword I can do so without giving a poo poo, but the seed's planted and there will always be a sperg in the back of my head calling me a scrub for doing so.

Andrast
Apr 21, 2010


Eldred posted:

I didn't realize it was that out of the ordinary, I'd just heard it was a good weapon to pick up for mid game. It's still kind of bizarre to blame balance issues on the player though.

Nobody is blaming you for anything. They just explained that you are using literally the best weapon in the game since you asked.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Eldred posted:

I didn't realize it was that out of the ordinary, I'd just heard it was a good weapon to pick up for mid game. It's still kind of bizarre to blame balance issues on the player though.

Nobody's blaming you. We're just saying that it's not so much that all of the bosses have too little HP (though some definitely do), but that a couple of weapons are far-and-away better at taking that HP away than the others. The balance issue is more on the weapon than the bosses.

Domattee
Mar 5, 2012

Nobody is blaming the balance on you, but picking a different weapon is the immediate(, practical) fix for your problem of "Bosses die too fast"

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Dr. Video Games 0112
Jan 7, 2004

serious business

Eldred posted:

Is it me or is boss HP really low in this? I'm coming from Bloodborne+DLC where you really had to earn those wins but all the bosses after Vordt have felt like paper relative to how quickly AR can scale up in this game. I'm using a Heavy Dark Sword +7 and just beat Aldrich, I'm thinking of choosing a handicap weapon for bosses just to make them last longer.

I'm not expecting the difficulty to match the DLC content in Bloodborne, and really I think their attack patterns are complicated and damaging enough. I just wish the bosses all had 50% more health or so.

Dark Sword is for people who want to do a quick run through to make a new PVP build, it's kind of the new red iron twinblade/buffed rapier for clearing PVE out of the way real quick. Try the fight again on NG+ with a spear or something, no truly bad weapons in the game either I guess, but some are just a little more "balanced" than others. For example, right now Im practicing Dancer with a bandit knife at level 25~, I laugh at your "needs more hp" comment.

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