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Hobgoblin2099 posted:For the Cloudburst fight, are there checkpoints? Or would you have to redo the whole fight from the Cobra Tanks segment if you died while the Cloudburst tank's core was exposed? It's been a while since I played because my AK disk sort of... melted, but I think there's a hidden checkpoint after you take out the Cobras? I'm probably wrong, but I remember having to redo the right with the Cloudburst a few times since I powered through the game without really getting a handle on the batmobile mechanics.
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May 5, 2016 02:48
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I've said it before but the Knight constantly loving up and losing his cool is intentional I'm pretty sure. He's meant to look like a whiny, scared child who lets his personal problem with Batman get in the way of effective fighting. Even when he has Batman right in his sights his own issues stop him from actually going through with killing him. Scarecrow is the opposite, where the Knight takes everything too personally Scarecrow takes nothing personally at all and that leads him to come across as bored instead of passionate. They're mirrors, both want to destroy Batman but one wants to for himself and the other for his work and so they become either a very personal villain or a very impersonal one. Doesn't mean it's portrayed well or anything but that's my take on what they were trying to do.
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May 5, 2016 04:19
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That makes for a really stupid villain, though.
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May 5, 2016 04:27
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Doctor Reynolds posted:That makes for a really stupid villain, though. It worked pretty well in the recent star wars movie, so it is doable to make that into a good villain. The big issue here is that the knight is presented as an established badass character rather than a newcomer who is growing into the whole villain thing. So he feels like a permanent loser rather than a guy that's just new to this but shows signs of ruthlessness and anger that could lead him into growing into a monster of a villain.
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May 5, 2016 04:40
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I was just gonna bring up Kylo Ren as a way of making it work.
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May 5, 2016 04:42
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FoolyCharged posted:It worked pretty well in the recent star wars movie, so it is doable to make that into a good villain. The big issue here is that the knight is presented as an established badass character rather than a newcomer who is growing into the whole villain thing. So he feels like a permanent loser rather than a guy that's just new to this but shows signs of ruthlessness and anger that could lead him into growing into a monster of a villain.
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May 5, 2016 04:42
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JT Jag posted:Kylo Ren has a similar personality to the Arkham Knight, the difference being that Ren is actually really competent and the Knight fails at everything he does Kylo Ren is way more competent when he's not trying to live up to someone else's legacy. Yeah, he flips out on a control console once, but he also loving FREEZES a laser blast in mid-air in his introductory scene.
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May 5, 2016 04:44
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Kylo also doesn't fully lose until the very end. He accomplishes a large amount of what he set out to do, up to and including killing very high profile targets for the resistance, before getting taken down by somebody who is his equal, a rarity in his time. He's competent, powerful, intimidating, and outright frightening to be around for how incredibly his rage overtakes his senses. The Arkham Knight is constantly a step behind Batman despite his whole schtick being ten steps ahead, because almost none of what he does has any weight outside the context of Batman in this story, and what little he has personally accomplished to destroy Gotham is undone or mitigated almost immediately. His rage is entirely directed at you through a phone call, and we have yet to see it amount to anything. It's not intimidating, just very whiny and grating. It's the basics of character agency, development, and pacing, and Arkham Knight fucks all three of 'em up.
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May 5, 2016 04:55
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He's not Kylo Ren, he's Kai Leng.
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May 5, 2016 05:06
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The Arkham Knight fails because he's never really given a win. He never gets an opportunity to prove he's a real threat, and most of his appearance in the game is impotent whining at his men over being clowned by Batman. He doesn't remotely justify the game being named after him.
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May 5, 2016 05:09
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WB already abandoned any semblance of having the Arkham titling make sense with Arkham Origins, why not just call it Arkham Downfall or something?
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May 5, 2016 05:18
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Can't pass up these pun options, man
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May 5, 2016 05:21
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Night10194 posted:He's not Kylo Ren, he's Kai Leng. Man, even Kai Leng at least won in bullshit table-flipping cutscenes. The Arkham Knight wishes he were as successful as Kai Leng, and considering how utterly terrible Kai Leng was, that's goddamn sad.
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May 5, 2016 05:52
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If the Arkham Knight destroyed the Batwing, was the one who hacked the movie studio and sent Harley there, and maybe grabbed Alfred too, he might be seen as a more credible threat. Maybe. Seriously, he needs to go head to head with Batman at something and win. And no, I don't count crushing his car only for Batman to call in a new one 15 minutes later.
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May 5, 2016 06:06
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thecluckmeme posted:Kylo also doesn't fully lose until the very end. He accomplishes a large amount of what he set out to do, up to and including killing very high profile targets for the resistance, before getting taken down by somebody who is his equal, a rarity in his time. He's competent, powerful, intimidating, and outright frightening to be around for how incredibly his rage overtakes his senses. I don't know, I didn't see the movie but this post might be the few times I've seen Kylo talked up positively. Every single comic, skit, comment, etc I've read has belittled him mercilessly and in casual discussion I usually only hear of him being talked up as a clown. Of course some people liked that depiction nonetheless since it's probably a more honest take on dark side edgelords than the generic sith cartoon characters the EU pumped out for a couple decades. Either way writing your primary antagonist like a petulant child takes a certain degree finesse and it's clear Rocksteady wasn't up for it this time around.
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May 5, 2016 07:21
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Kylo Ren was a newbie villain up against newbie heroes. Caught folks off-guard who expected another Vader, a guy at the top of his game who the heroes would struggle to finally overcome in the last movie as they reached their own pinnacles. Instead he's gonna (hopefully) improve as they do, he's got power but he hasn't learned control. I mean, the movie actually had a scene where the villain torn between light and darkness found the strength within himself to fully embrace the Dark Side, it was a wonderful reversal of the way that thing usually goes. The Arkham Knight is a newbie villain (though apparently a tactical mercenary genius blinded by revenge, but it's being conveyed the same) against Batman at the top of his game except for Jokeritis. Any time you confront him directly he's just getting clowned on. Pun intended.
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May 5, 2016 07:38
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Waffleman_ posted:WB already abandoned any semblance of having the Arkham titling make sense with Arkham Origins, why not just call it Arkham Downfall or something? This gets explained. If you were watching the movie studio/harley gang videos closely, it already has been! Bruceski posted:The Arkham Knight is a newbie villain (though apparently a tactical mercenary genius blinded by revenge, but it's being conveyed the same) against Batman at the top of his game except for Jokeritis. Any time you confront him directly he's just getting clowned on. Pun intended. The Knight needs a militia commander under him who is responsible for all the things you take out, and thus is the one raging at you impotently after each defeated watchtower/APC/etc. The Knight himself works OK (not great) if you are exclusively seeing his portrayal in the main story, where he's had the chance to kill you twice and not done it because he was still obeying orders.
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May 5, 2016 07:44
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hard counter posted:I don't know, I didn't see the movie but this post might be the few times I've seen Kylo talked up positively. Every single comic, skit, comment, etc I've read has belittled him mercilessly and in casual discussion I usually only hear of him being talked up as a clown. Of course some people liked that depiction nonetheless since it's probably a more honest take on dark side edgelords than the generic sith cartoon characters the EU pumped out for a couple decades. Kylo Ren kind of is a clown, but that's the point. He's the Supreme Leaders personal apprentice, and nobody would really take him seriously if he didn't have a terrifying laser sword and couldn't murder people with his loving mind. He's dangerously competent at what he does and Rey is really his first failure. And she probably wouldn't be if he wasn't so busy throwing temper tantrums and wrecking perfectly good computer consoles and torture chairs. He's hideously powerful, but he's not fully dedicated to the dark side, and his lack of commitment is his weakness. Ren doesn't really make mistakes or fail until he fails to interrogate Rey, and he's still crazy competent up until he gets the poo poo kicked out him, and that's after he murders his dad and gets the poo poo blasted out of him by Chewbacca, whose gun is frequently sending people flying across the screen. He is, on the outside kind of a clown. It's a nice subversion of Darth Vader, whom he idolizes. He does the scary Sith Lord with the black outfit, scary laser sword, evil mask, but underneath he's a totally unimposing dork with goofy ears. He's whiny and angsty and lashes out with his anger because that's the thing the evil guys do, but instead of using his anger to destroy his enemies, he just breaks stuff and threatens his subordinates, and his inner conflict is what drives him. Knight on the otherhand, is just whiny and hateful and wants simple revenge but since we know nothing about him it doesn't invest us in his character it just makes him annoying once we get bored of wondering who he is. Which happens quickly because he never does anything and we never learn anything. Maybe if he spent some time talking to Batman or monologuing or something but he doesn't do that he just whines about Daddy Scarecrow not letting him kill Batman, despite the fact that he could've put a bullet in Batman's head in like the third or fourth video when he shoots him in the side. Personally my money is on Jason Todd, and if that's true, I'm glad that if that's the case they didn't just do some Red Hood plot line, because I like when superhero stuff does not just transplant comics into another medium, but we've spent far too much time with him just being a faceless dude not doing anything or giving him any backstory or explanation or anything. That's really the Knight's shortcoming, we just don't know anything about him and we're supposed to be opposed to him and poo poo and instead it's just like "who is this rear end in a top hat, we get it he wants to kill batman, but why? because he wants to kill batman" and then when nothing happens you just get tired of him and he turns into the whiny little git he is in the game.
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May 5, 2016 08:07
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Time to clean up the SEASON OF INFAMY. In From The Cold/Polsy
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May 5, 2016 16:51
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I actually kind of like the way this sidequest ends; usually most mediums have Mr. Freeze endlessly pining over Nora or still being a villain for reasons. Here they actually give the character some pretty nice closure. I think the Season of Infamy stuff is some of the strongest writing in the game. And there's no Joker dialogue, either, so people who are angry about him always talking can take solace in that.
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May 5, 2016 17:23
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dscruffy1 posted:Time to clean up the SEASON OF INFAMY. This is it; the best mission in the entire game, and possibly the entire series. It's well written, the voice acting is great, it's got a nice little selection of different types of gameplay, and that ending!!
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May 5, 2016 17:29
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Alright, that sidequest was pretty sweet. Good character writing, a decent mixture in the fights, and they even went to the effort of making an iceberg racetrack. Short, sweet and to-the-point. Also it didn't end in a Bat-decision. I expected it to end with a choice between what Nora wanted and what Victor wanted, glad they went for the closure of the storyline instead.
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May 5, 2016 17:32
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dscruffy1 posted:Time to clean up the SEASON OF INFAMY. Why can't the rest of the game be like this?!?!?!?!
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May 5, 2016 17:39
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Holy poo poo, they literally unfridged a character  I love this, though. Nora has always been an object, just another motivation for a villain without any kind of impact outside of her existence. She was, for a very long while, the easiest and most literal example of a woman only existing in the story to provide pathos for a male character. This sidequest not only gives her agency, she forces her wants and needs to be recognized as valid.
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May 5, 2016 18:25
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Send in the drones... Send in the drones...! Those sci-fi and hi-fi bots by the wi-fi...drones! They're already heeeeeeeere!
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May 5, 2016 18:35
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Once again freeze shows that the smart choice would just be to loving hire him rather than beating him up. Hell, after his wife is getting treatment he'd probably be up for actually doing some good in gotham rather than freezing it.
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May 5, 2016 18:55
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Man, Steve Blum must have an infinite supply of drones.
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May 5, 2016 19:03
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That was really, really good.
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May 5, 2016 19:04
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I think this is the first mission I really enjoyed watch all the way through. Hectic predator section, a fun batmobile track, and a tank fight that was fun to watch because of having a million tanks to fight for the sake of having a million tanks to fight, the militia's really coming for you guys and Freeze taking a while to get the generator great to blow was really tense. And everyone else is right: no bat decision to make made this end on such a really good note. Better than this game deserves, I feel. The only problem I had watching this was Batman's flippant line about never seeing those two again.
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May 5, 2016 19:14
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bman in 2288 posted:The only problem I had watching this was Batman's flippant line about never seeing those two again. Because the next time he sees them, there's only going to be one of them. 
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May 5, 2016 20:33
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bman in 2288 posted:The only problem I had watching this was Batman's flippant line about never seeing those two again. Yeah, that sounded really discordant to me, coming off of the genuine pathos of the ending. "We'll never see them again*.  "*(because one of them made the poignant decision to die with dignity)
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May 5, 2016 20:45
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Ghost of Starman posted:Yeah, that sounded really discordant to me, coming off of the genuine pathos of the ending. "We'll never see them again*. Well, there WAS that big rear end hull breach Batman used to enter the boat. Not sure when Freeze had time to patch that up, what with trying to repair his cryo equipment, then blowing it up to stop the militia (but leave the Batmobile intact).
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May 5, 2016 20:49
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What do you know, a well-written female character  The sentiment during the Batgirl dlc holds, I think: these games are much stronger when episodic and "just another night for Batman" rather than going all-in on making it a pivotal moment in his life.
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May 5, 2016 21:18
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Aw, that was a sweet ending. If only the whole game was written that well. Was this DLC even written by the same people?
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May 5, 2016 21:25
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Spatula City posted:Aw, that was a sweet ending. Likely not, I'd imagine it was handled by different development departments.
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May 5, 2016 22:01
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Man, I thought they'd finally reveal AK:s identity but nope, blueballed again. Going just "poof, he fled" is really dumb. On a more positive note, I like how they made Fries look, just as I very much liked the dino Killer Croc. This game isn't going to go all spec ops: the line on us and reveal that Batman hallucinated the existence of  I really can draw some parallel lines here.
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May 5, 2016 22:17
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berryjon posted:Because the next time he sees them, there's only going to be one of them. Freeze removed his helmet to die with his wife, so...
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May 5, 2016 22:29
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The only problem I have with this DLC is why does the cryo chamber spontaneously fail? And fail in a way that doesn't just kill her from shock? It's a bit contrived. But it's contrived in a good way. Nora deserves better than to be locked up in an ice prison forever, and I'm glad she got to have her voice heard. That was such a sweet ending, too.  And because it bears repeating... berryjon posted:Why can't the rest of the game be like this?!?!?!?!
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May 5, 2016 22:37
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Grapplejack posted:Freeze removed his helmet to die with his wife, so... He opened his helmet. He didn't take it off. I take it as Victor taking the opportunity to listen and be heard by Nora with their own voices, not through the helmet and speakers. Because Victor would willingly put himself at risk for even just that little moment of connection.
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May 5, 2016 22:44
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Felinoid posted:The only problem I have with this DLC is why does the cryo chamber spontaneously fail? And fail in a way that doesn't just kill her from shock? It's a bit contrived. I wasn't connected to the rest of the cryo apparatus. If you look at the cutscene on the ship you can see a lot of disconnected cables that seem like they'd hook up to the cryo-chamber. Also, this is science fiction cryogenics that actually works and doesn't kill people who are frozen. Is it really that much of a logical leap that they have fail-safes to thaw "gracefully" if removed from power?
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May 5, 2016 22:46
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