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Drone
Aug 22, 2003

Incredible machine
:smug:



I know very little about Traveller.. is this the one worth getting? https://bundleofholding.com/presents/MongooseTraveller

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gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
Traveller is a sci-fi game that's well known for an interactive (and potentially deadly) character creation system where you "play out" the adult part of your character's life before starting a game with them.

It's also known for its sandbox tools, since you can randomly roll entire star sectors and individual planets inside them and the industry and population and trading opportunities within.

The Mongoose version, AFAIK, cleans up the original rules by standardizing them: you always have a basic Target Number of 7 when rolling your 2d6 as a basic resolution mechanic, and gaining a bonus to that 2d6 roll always happens at generic stages in your stats.

Having run it all of once, it's a workmanlike sci-fi game - it can be very dry since the skills are largely military oriented and there's no character advancement, it's mostly about providing the immersive background and letting you fill in the narrative empty space yourself.

Drone
Aug 22, 2003

Incredible machine
:smug:



I meant more in terms of "is this the edition that I should buy"? Without starting weird edition wars, I know with some old RPG systems like this, there are certain ones that are pretty much universally unused because they're generally bad.

Galaga Galaxian
Apr 23, 2009

What a childish tactic!
Don't you think you should put more thought into your battleplan?!


Mongoose Traveller gets my vote. Though they just released a 2nd edition, and this is 1stEd of course. Not heard much about 2nd except it made an odd switch to ship damage mechanics.

Baron Snow
Feb 8, 2007


Amazon is doing TableTop Day deals

grassy gnoll
Aug 27, 2006

The pawsting business is tough work.
Somehow I've beaten Evil Mastermind here to tell you that there's not one but two TORG bundles on BOH.

You could buy them, I guess. Only you could tell yourself why.

Evil Mastermind
Apr 28, 2008

grassy gnoll posted:

Somehow I've beaten Evil Mastermind here to tell you that there's not one but two TORG bundles on BOH.

You could buy them, I guess. Only you could tell yourself why.
So you can share my suffering, that's why.

Grey Hunter
Oct 17, 2007

Hero of the soviet union.
Accidental destroyer of planets
Can buying Torg ever be considered a deal?

LashLightning
Feb 20, 2010

You know you didn't have to go post that, right?
But it's fine, I guess...

You just keep being you!

Drone posted:

I know very little about Traveller.. is this the one worth getting? https://bundleofholding.com/presents/MongooseTraveller

It's effectively the original edition of Traveller, cleaned up a bunch. Imagine it the Labyrinth Lord to OE D&D.

"2nd edition" Mongoose Traveller isn't hugely different, I'm sure books can be used interchangeablely. 2nd Edition seems largely an attempt to deal with the dry presentation of the original rulebook, matching it up to current standards for RPG core rulebooks.

Evil Mastermind
Apr 28, 2008

The new Bundle is up: Castle Falkenstein.

Peas and Rice
Jul 14, 2004

Honor and profit.
I just came here to post that.

That's a great loving price for some amazing books.

FMguru
Sep 10, 2003

peed on;
sexually
Six-Guns and Sorcery manages to do weird steampunk mythic wild west in one supplement book better than the entire publishing history of Deadlands managed. Great supplement for a great game, and it's in the core bundle.

Humbug Scoolbus
Apr 25, 2008

The scarlet letter was her passport into regions where other women dared not tread. Shame, Despair, Solitude! These had been her teachers, stern and wild ones, and they had made her strong, but taught her much amiss.
Clapping Larry
Absolutely fantastic game. I should roll20 a campaign of it again.

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 5, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!
Easily the best game put out by R. Talsorian or Mike Pondsmith.

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011

by Azathoth
On the other side of the bundle of holding deals (since I already had Castle Frankenstein, totally agree great game, get it everyone), I'm actually digging Brave New World. It's a neat concept for hero games and they clearly wanted to make a very 'live' feeling world.

But BOY is this a 90's RPG. It is really hard to wade through the Garth Ennis level "YEA BET THIS SHOCKS YOU HUH" moments. Funny enough despite the fact that I can practically see the writer's dick in his hand as he writes about Not-Bucky getting put in a concentration camp oven and coming out as a vengeance filled grimdark hero who tears the nazi super who runs the camp apart and hang his head from the gate, it's still a more 'organic' feeling conflict between registration and liberty than Marvel did with Civil War.

They try to make the insane comic things feel 'right', is what I'm saying. Like the rumblings of 'registration' began back during the cold war, because of COURSE during the red scare we'd think 'uh hey, you know these guys who wear masks and shoot lasers out of their balls? Can we maybe know who they are?' Then it came to a head when a super hero fight wound up blowing up JFK's car and killing...his wife. I actually kinda genuinely like that alt history poo poo. JFK gets, shockingly, really mad at supers and wants more accountability for them, and boom, registration act starts.

It tries too hard to be edgy and gritty, but at the same time it also puts that much effort into the world as a whole, and I think that kinda winds up balancing out.

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 5, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!

Tatum Girlparts posted:

They try to make the insane comic things feel 'right', is what I'm saying. Like the rumblings of 'registration' began back during the cold war, because of COURSE during the red scare we'd think 'uh hey, you know these guys who wear masks and shoot lasers out of their balls? Can we maybe know who they are?' Then it came to a head when a super hero fight wound up blowing up JFK's car and killing...his wife. I actually kinda genuinely like that alt history poo poo. JFK gets, shockingly, really mad at supers and wants more accountability for them, and boom, registration act starts.

I'd say if you really like that kind of thing, look up Progenitor for Wild Talents, it's a big long timeline of alt-history superhero dominoes falling that's immensely well written (because, well, Greg Stolze) without ever feeling cliched or forced.

Golden Bee
Dec 24, 2009

I came here to chew bubblegum and quote 'They Live', and I'm... at an impasse.
Mutants and Masterminds also did "Red Scare = Supers Scare." I'd say for Superhero RPGs it's more common than not (explaining the lack of interest in supers comics from 1946 to the 70s.)

fez_machine
Nov 27, 2004

Golden Bee posted:

Mutants and Masterminds also did "Red Scare = Supers Scare." I'd say for Superhero RPGs it's more common than not (explaining the lack of interest in supers comics from 1946 to the 70s.)

That shits been around since they brought back the JSA in the 80s.

Bieeanshee
Aug 21, 2000

Not keen on keening.


Grimey Drawer
I'm still amused by GURPS International Super Teams' history translating the ERA movement into POWER: Paranormals Only Want Equal Rights.

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011

by Azathoth

Golden Bee posted:

Mutants and Masterminds also did "Red Scare = Supers Scare." I'd say for Superhero RPGs it's more common than not (explaining the lack of interest in supers comics from 1946 to the 70s.)

Yea it's not a super unique idea, I just guess I wasn't expecting much when it seemed to mainly be selling itself on "oh man this ain't your daddy's super hero story, in this one the government is...THE BAD GUY???? Mind blown!" kinda poo poo.

I also like that it's a fairly low power game. Not really 'realistic' or anything since you still have guys shooting lasers and throwing cars and all, just like you decide at the start 'I'm gonna be a big tough brick' and that's what your character is, you probably won't wind up also shooting fire and poo poo if that's the route you go. It feels like stories like these need to be a bit lower on the power scale than, say, M&M tends to drift.

But yea, not the greatest superhero game, not the most original idea, but for 20ish bucks I think it's a good deal for a big bundle if only to read the setting info because of course like every 90s RPG you can't get the FULL STORY (tm) unless you have like all the official books.

unseenlibrarian
Jun 4, 2012

There's only one thing in the mountains that leaves a track like this. The creature of legend that roams the Timberline. My people named him Sasquatch. You call him... Bigfoot.
The problem with Brave New World's power system in a nutshell is I'm super-tough and super-hard to hurt" is supposed to be a balanced power package with 'I'm really good with computers. Like super-good" and unfortunately both of you are being hunted by the same government troops with the same weapons. And all either of you will ever do is get more variations on the same basic trick, which means something that threatens Ray the brick explodes Bob the super-hacker.

And meanwhile Steve the Bargainer is a literal wizard who has both of your packages and can switch between them on a whim because he made a deal with the devil. Who is actually a devil-like alien.

unseenlibrarian fucked around with this message at 18:49 on May 7, 2016

PST
Jul 5, 2012

If only Milliband had eaten a vegan sausage roll instead of a bacon sandwich, we wouldn't be in this mess.

Alien Rope Burn posted:

I'd say if you really like that kind of thing, look up Progenitor for Wild Talents, it's a big long timeline of alt-history superhero dominoes falling that's immensely well written (because, well, Greg Stolze) without ever feeling cliched or forced.

I think Progenitor's worth buying just for the timeline alone, let alone the game along with it.

Evil Mastermind
Apr 28, 2008

DriveThru is having a Superhero RPG sale until Monday.

Some EM Recommendations:
ICONS for $11, and ICONS Great Power for $7.50. A good Fate-derived game designed to be more lighthearted than most supers RPG. Has a random-roll chargen method for goofy power combos, or you can just point-buy. Great Power has more powers (duh) and info on converting to Fate Core.

AMP: Year One and Two for $7.50 each. A simple powers system in a advancing campaign world that hits all the major supers tropes as the "metaplot" progresses (the early appearance of metas, Brotherhood of Evil Mutants style organizations, 90's Claremont-style metahuman hunters, etc.). Also Elot Lasanta is a Good Industry Person and deserves support.

The Kerberos Club (Fate edition) for $15. It's a steampunkish setting that doesn't suck! This book is great for reference because it gives a lot of information on what day-to-day life was really like in England in the 1800's, warts and all. Ben Baugh (Monsters and other Childish Things) also sets up a century-long timeline of an England that gets weirder and weirder as more metahumans appear.

alg
Mar 14, 2007

A wolf was no less a wolf because a whim of chance caused him to run with the watch-dogs.

It's free RPG day y'all. Picked up the DCC and Call of Cthulhu adventures, both look killer.

People are going nuts for the pathfinder adv as usual

GHOST_BUTT
Nov 24, 2013

Fun Shoe

gradenko_2000 posted:

Having run it all of once, it's a workmanlike sci-fi game - it can be very dry since the skills are largely military oriented and there's no character advancement, it's mostly about providing the immersive background and letting you fill in the narrative empty space yourself.

There is character advancement, you can train skills higher during play, it just takes forever and generally happens in the background of a long trip. But that extra +1 to a skill makes a huge difference in Traveller, so it's worth doing.

Also I guess you made this post two months ago but ~whatever.

Libertad!
Oct 30, 2013

You can have the last word, but I'll have the last laugh!
Endzeitgeist is a very well-known reviewer in the Pathfinder fandom, but he's branched out into other systems as well. Due to living in Germany, it's ordinarily too expensive for him to attend Gen Con.

A bunch of third party publishers got together to release a "Bring Endzeitgeist to Gen Con" bundle, where 100% of the profits are to pay for his expenses.

It's $210 worth of books for $35, and there's a Pay What You Want as a non-bundle option too.

The majority of the products are Pathfinder and 5E, but a lot of them are highly regarded among said communities, such as Secrets of the Masquerade Reveler, Courts of the Shadow Fey, and For Lent, Lease, & Conquest.

inklesspen
Oct 17, 2007

Here I am coming, with the good news of me, and you hate it. You can think only of the bell and how much I have it, and you are never the goose. I will run around with my bell as much as I want and you will make despair.
Buglord
Apocalypse World 1st Edition is now free.

foutre
Sep 4, 2011

:toot: RIP ZEEZ :toot:
Apologies in advance if there was a better place to post this, please let me know if I should post/cross-post this somewhere else. I've been volunteering for an organization that sends books to prisoners. Some of the most requested books are RPGs -- especially D&D and Pathfinder. Unfortunately, we get those very rarely and most of the books are too heavy for us to afford to send or would require a one or two other core books to play. On top of that, in some states' prisons (i.e., Wisconsin) Dungeons and Dragons is specifically banned anyway. So, I'm trying to find something I can send them instead.

For an RPG to work for this, it has to be:
-- available for free
-- short -- a.k.a. inexpensive to print out

And ideally would also:
-- be flexible/self-contained
-- not require dice (i.e., use rock-paper-scissors or whatnot)
-- not have explicit references to gambling/violence (that a prison official giving the book a once-over would notice). Obviously this one's pretty subjective, and it's really hard to tell what'll get censored/rejected anyway, but generally text-heavy is better.

From looking through the links in the OP and googling around, GURPS lite looks promising, and flexible enough to work well for a lot of different campaigns. 16 double-sided sheets of paper is pretty doable to print as well. The fact that it only requires d6 is pretty good, but there are definitely some prisons where people can't have any dice.

Risus is definitely a good size (4 pages) and doesn't require dice, but might be a bit too basic to stand in as a replacement for D&D etc.

Are there any other systems that y'all would recommend that might be better (i.e., fewer pages to print, no dice required or just generally good)?

Helical Nightmares
Apr 30, 2009
Quoting you in the tg chat thread. May reach more eyes.

foutre
Sep 4, 2011

:toot: RIP ZEEZ :toot:
Thanks, I appreciate it!

mikeycp
Nov 24, 2010

I've changed a lot since I started hanging with Sonic, but I can't depend on him forever. I know I can do this by myself! Okay, Eggman! Bring it on!
Try Dungeon World. The bare essentials are free, and extras are pretty cheap too. Also very simple, flexible, and short. It's really great.

http://www.dungeon-world.com/

Lawen
Aug 7, 2000

FATE may be a good option. Parts of it are OGL licensed and you could download and print SRDs for next to nothing. There's also a $5 softcover FATE Accelerated book. The system uses d6s but they're really d3s so it'd be easy to write +, -, blank on slips of paper and draw from a hat if you don't have access to dice.

Dr. Lunchables
Dec 27, 2012

IRL DEBUFFED KOBOLD



foutre posted:

Apologies in advance if there was a better place to post this, please let me know if I should post/cross-post this somewhere else. I've been volunteering for an organization that sends books to prisoners. Some of the most requested books are RPGs -- especially D&D and Pathfinder. Unfortunately, we get those very rarely and most of the books are too heavy for us to afford to send or would require a one or two other core books to play. On top of that, in some states' prisons (i.e., Wisconsin) Dungeons and Dragons is specifically banned anyway. So, I'm trying to find something I can send them instead.

For an RPG to work for this, it has to be:
-- available for free
-- short -- a.k.a. inexpensive to print out

And ideally would also:
-- be flexible/self-contained
-- not require dice (i.e., use rock-paper-scissors or whatnot)
-- not have explicit references to gambling/violence (that a prison official giving the book a once-over would notice). Obviously this one's pretty subjective, and it's really hard to tell what'll get censored/rejected anyway, but generally text-heavy is better.

From looking through the links in the OP and googling around, GURPS lite looks promising, and flexible enough to work well for a lot of different campaigns. 16 double-sided sheets of paper is pretty doable to print as well. The fact that it only requires d6 is pretty good, but there are definitely some prisons where people can't have any dice.

Risus is definitely a good size (4 pages) and doesn't require dice, but might be a bit too basic to stand in as a replacement for D&D etc.

Are there any other systems that y'all would recommend that might be better (i.e., fewer pages to print, no dice required or just generally good)?

Would you also be interested in physical book donations? If you had a P.O. Box, I'm sure people would be willing to donate a core book or two. Then all you need is player sheets.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
https://storybundle.com/games

Jon Peterson's Playing at the World, among other gaming-related books, are available for a minimum 5 USD at this bundle.

foutre
Sep 4, 2011

:toot: RIP ZEEZ :toot:

Lawen posted:

FATE may be a good option. Parts of it are OGL licensed and you could download and print SRDs for next to nothing. There's also a $5 softcover FATE Accelerated book. The system uses d6s but they're really d3s so it'd be easy to write +, -, blank on slips of paper and draw from a hat if you don't have access to dice.

I emailed the publisher and they offered to send a bunch of free copies to distribute -- FATE was a perfect option, thanks!

Lord Frisk posted:

Would you also be interested in physical book donations? If you had a P.O. Box, I'm sure people would be willing to donate a core book or two. Then all you need is player sheets.

We get a ton of physical donations, that would probably be even better. Setting up a PO Box is a good idea, I'll look into setting one up. It might take a while but I'll post once I get it figured out.

RocknRollaAyatollah
Nov 26, 2008

Lipstick Apathy
Two GURPS Traveller bundles are up on Bundle of Holding. What's the consensus on these? I know GURPS books are usually pretty good as comprehensive fluff guides and are well put together.

GHOST_BUTT
Nov 24, 2013

Fun Shoe

RocknRollaAyatollah posted:

Two GURPS Traveller bundles are up on Bundle of Holding. What's the consensus on these? I know GURPS books are usually pretty good as comprehensive fluff guides and are well put together.

Starports is good all-around fluff for any SF game you're running and Behind the Claw is good if you're into the Third Imperium setting fluff.

Doorknob Slobber
Sep 10, 2006

by Fluffdaddy
Why in the world is D&D banned in prisons?

Galaga Galaxian
Apr 23, 2009

What a childish tactic!
Don't you think you should put more thought into your battleplan?!


Probably residual MADD style poo poo.

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gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
Where D&D intersects with that other D&D:

http://www.blastr.com/2011-1-27/judge-bans-dd-prison-rules-it-could-lead-gang-behavior

quote:

If you're reading this, chances are you've played Dungeons & Dragons: a game that involves creativity, quick thinking and a tendency to eat too many potato chips in one sitting.

Anyone can play D&D who can get his hands on a rules book and a set of dice—except for Kevin T. Singer, a prisoner in Wisconsin's Waupun Correctional Institution, who in 2004 had his D&D materials confiscated.

Singer, imprisoned for bludgeoning his sister's boyfriend to death with a sledgehammer, has sued the facility for violating his First Amendment rights. But on Jan. 25, 2010, the U.S. 7th Circuit Court of Appeals upheld the ban ... because Waupun believes D&D promotes gang-related activity.

According to the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals, when Captain Muraski, the prison's gang specialist, testified:

He explained that the policy was intended to promote prison security because co-operative games can mimic the organization of gangs and lead to the actual development thereof. Muraski elaborated that during D&D games, one player is denoted the "Dungeon Master." The Dungeon Master is tasked with giving directions to other players, which Muraski testified mimics the organization of a gang.


In this fascinating article from Above the Law, Elie Mystal says it best:

Look, I know the title "dungeon master" sounds scary and important. But don't let the words confuse you. We're talking about a guy who sits around all day drawing maps and debating whether a cloak of anti-venom can protect you from a fictional rat bite. (Note: It can't, rats have diseases, anti-venom contemplates poisons, those are two completely different things. Please don't tell my wife about this.)

If you were around in the 1980s, you would recall the public's fear that D&D led to mass criminal activities and/or psychiatric disorders. As with heavy metal music, comic books and videogames, these fears did not come to fruition. But it seems that these prejudices still exist, despite the fact that many of these former D&Ders went on to become happy, productive members of society; and others even created our current technology revolution.

The Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals quoted cases in which extreme escapism fostered by D&D led to murder or suicide and resulted in the offenders' imprisonment. However, none of these cases dealt with current inmates trying to rehabilitate. Singer, on the other hand, brought in Paul Cardwell, chair and archivist of the Committee for the Advancement of Role-Playing Games, who testified that "there are numerous scholarly works establishing that role-playing games can have positive rehabilitative effects on prisoners."

Ultimately, the Seventh Circuit ruled in favor of upholding the ban because none of Singer's witnesses could prove that D&D didn't ultimately lead to forming gangs.
And if you follow the news, you'd know that gangs are extremely dangerous organizations that are detrimental to prison security and to rehabilitation.

The Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals also writes:

D&D can "foster an inmate's obsession with escaping from the real life, correctional environment, fostering hostility, violence and escape behavior," which in turn "can compromise not only the inmate's rehabilitation and effects of positive programming but also endanger the public and jeopardize the safety and security of the institution."

Yes, D&D is about escapism. It can provide a nice mental break from the stresses of life, especially if that life is one without parole. D&D has been proven over time not to lead to violence, and it does not incur extra cost to the taxpayers. So why is it being withheld from Singer and his group?

Mystal again says it best.

[W]hat this is all about is punishment. It's not about rehabilitation, it's not about security, it's about old-school vengeance carried out by state actors. He killed somebody, and we as a society found something else he liked that we can take away. So we're going to take it away. It's Christopher Lloyd playing a Klingon in Star Trek 3 telling Kirk he won't beam up Spock "because you wish it."

I guess that is our right. I guess there is no compelling interest in making the life imprisonment of a murderer a little less horrible. But vengeance, even when legal, is still ugly. The Seventh Circuit just made a Lawful Evil decision here.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/27/us/27dungeons.html?_r=0

quote:

Prisons can restrict the rights of inmates to nerd out, a federal appeals court has found.

In an opinion issued on Monday , a three-judge panel of the United States Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit rejected the claims in a lawsuit challenging a ban on the game Dungeons & Dragons by the Waupun Correctional Institution in Wisconsin.

The suit was brought by a prisoner, Kevin T. Singer, who argued that his First Amendment and 14th Amendment rights were violated by the prison’s decision to ban the game and confiscate his books and other materials, including a 96-page handwritten manuscript he had created for the game.

Mr. Singer, “a D&D enthusiast since childhood,” according to the court’s opinion, was sentenced to life in prison in 2002 for bludgeoning and stabbing his sister’s boyfriend to death.

Prison officials said they had banned the game at the recommendation of the prison’s specialist on gangs, who said it could lead to gang behavior and fantasies about escape.

Dungeons & Dragons could “foster an inmate’s obsession with escaping from the real-life correctional environment, fostering hostility, violence and escape behavior,” prison officials said in court. That could make it more difficult to rehabilitate prisoners and could endanger public safety, they said.

The court, which is based in Chicago, acknowledged that there was no evidence of marauding gangs spurred to their acts of destruction by swinging imaginary mauls, but it ruled nonetheless that the prison’s decision was “rationally related” to legitimate goals of prison administration.

“We are pleased with the ruling,” said John Dipko, a spokesman for the Wisconsin Department of Corrections, who added that the prison rules “enable us to continue our mission of keeping our state safe.”

News of the decision spread quickly though the network of blogs that discuss such games and to those devoted to the law, where many commentators revealed perhaps more of their own history as gamers than they might have intended. On The Volokh Conspiracy, a legal blog, a particularly rollicking discussion ensued, kicked off with a post by Ilya Somin, an associate professor of law at George Mason University, who asked, “Should prisons ban ‘The Count of Monte Cristo’ on the grounds that it might encourage escape attempts?”

In an interview, Professor Somin said the prison’s action was reminiscent of a media frenzy in the 1980s surrounding the supposedly pernicious effects of gaming. “Ideally, you should really have more evidence that there is a genuine harm before you restrict something,” he said.

The comments accompanying Professor Somin’s post ranged from hoots of outrage over the ban to constitutionally nuanced discussion, but they showed that there were many lawyers who at some point owned a pouch with some dice of more than six sides. And none of them seemed to think that the risk to the nation’s prisons could be found in the works of Gary Gygax or other creators of the genre.

As Andrew Oh-Willeke, a lawyer in Denver, wrote, “If more inmates were über-nerdy D&D players, life would be good.”

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