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Ka0 posted:I think Thunderbolt might be my favorite gundam series now. After watching episode 4. And it's so conflicting; I liked Turn A because it took place in such a distant faraway future, it left to the imagination to wonder what kind of unspeakable horrors had to have happened for humanity to loop back towards 19th century tech; I still love BF because it got me into building model kits again. But thunderbolt, it does a better job than 08th MS Team at the whole "this is what war does. this is what you can expect" vibe. I found it pretty non-conflicting. The Zeon folks fight for a cause they have no right fighting for while literally discarding their humanity. The Moores are fighting for their home regardless of how ruined it might be. It isn't until the end that the Daryl finally realised he is the evil bastard monster not Io. The Moores do end up doing some pretty unsavoury things like sending in under trained teens into battle but they didn't relish their sins like their Zeon counterparts. Even Io who has fallen to the bloodlust acknowledges the terrible thing they are about to do. Claudia is outright sickened by it. Io knows he is going to hell and accepts this with open arms both as penance and as the only place he can now exist in. The Zeon make themselves even harder to sympathise with even though both sides are destroyed by the horrors of the war as they Heil Zeon like the fanatics they are, throw away their lives pointlessly even when shown mercy while claiming their superiority as they abuse prisoners. The Doctor while momentarily sympathetic is only doing it out of personal connections rather than some moral uprightness still fall into the Heil Zeon mindset claiming victimhood as she tries to shoot down the Gundam and blow up the ship. The 8th MS team did the balancing act a lot better as both sides had a reason to fight and attempt to preserve some civility even as their superiors push for more brutal and inhumane ways to fight. Thunderbolt does the whole horror thing better though as it is willing to break everybody, no one comes out of this without getting wreaked. Thunderbolt achieved in 4 episodes what Turn A effectively failed to do despite having 50 episodes and having the Earth and the Moon as it's canvas. Turn A is very sanitised, unfocused, inconsistent tone, pointlessness and generally pretty impersonal. While the Earth falling back to the early 20th century is bad it feels irrelevant as the present is a far more pressing concern. Even after finding out about the world ending WMD, it is very disconnected even when compared to what happens at nuke mountain. Even then Nuke Mountain came off as a bumbling joke. The horror in Thunderbolt is unmissable, personal and didn't require WMDs to make it's impact even if one side is nearly unsympathetic.
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May 5, 2016 20:51
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Of course you dislike Turn A. I shouldn't even be surprised at this point.
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May 5, 2016 22:14
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OZC posted:Sadly, they won't. They confirmed on Twitter that they're using the Animax Asia dub for this. So yeah, brace yourselves for that. 
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May 5, 2016 22:34
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Shinjobi posted:Of course you dislike Turn A. I shouldn't even be surprised at this point.
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May 5, 2016 23:44
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Shinjobi posted:Of course you dislike Turn A. I shouldn't even be surprised at this point. Anyone who dislikes g-reco is probably going to dislike Turn A for a lot of the same reasons.
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May 6, 2016 00:20
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Caros posted:Anyone who dislikes g-reco is probably going to dislike Turn A for a lot of the same reasons. This is the complete opposite of logic, considering Turn-A does not have any of the same issues G-Reco has.
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May 6, 2016 00:21
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Lemon-Lime posted:This is the complete opposite of logic, considering Turn-A does not have any of the same issues G-Reco has. Well, there is that same ol' Tomino dialogue, I guess. Guy does often feel like he doesn't entirely approach humanity from an insider's perspective, if you catch my drift. Anyway, Thunderbolt Volume 7 trip report: * Man, that first chapter has the Thunderboltest twist. * Bianca remains cool and good. C'mon, TB, I know you aren't great with female characters, but let us keep this one? Please? * Io has a wonderfully deranged solution to the traditional Gundam 'someone I care about is fighting for the enemy' problem. It's not a total success, but A for effort. * The new main villain makes a hell of a first entrance. Darryl's going to have a tough time getting his ride back. One thing that's fun and odd about Thunderbolt is that the titular battle is almost just the prologue of the story, with the entire rest of it dedicated to dealing with the aftermath.
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May 6, 2016 00:33
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I think oohhboy was looking for a serious story about the horrors of war and was disappointed when he found a light-hearted, old-fashioned adventure anime with a charming cast of characters. It suffers from a bit of the same Tomino Ramble that a lot of Tomino shows do, and starts to feel disjointed the further you go in, but overall Turn A manages to rise above its flaws. I get the feeling oohhboy is a variant of the older style of western Gundam fan you used to see more of, before the show managed to find a larger audience, where the big difference from the classic UC Gundam fan is that he hates UC and Tomino stuff while at the same time prefers the sort of story they tell. Old-fashioned western Gundam fans also strongly disliked Turn A and it wasn't until a good decade after that other people started looking back and realizing it was a fun and honestly pretty good show once you strip away your expectations about what a Gundam show ought to be. It owes a lot more to Nadia: the Secret of Blue Water than anything that came before it in its own franchise. Complaining about Turn A not being serious and dark enough is like complaining a crème brûlée isn't bœuf à la Bourguignonne. Complaining that the cast just sort of stumbles from one possibly comical situation into another is, well, a matter of taste. Ka0 shouldn't feel conflicted about liking Turn A, Build Fighters, and also Thunderbolt because they're completely different works in completely different genres and only really share an IP, so it's possible to like different shows for different reasons. Gundam has been at its best when it remembers it's quite literally a children's show, but there's something to be said for catering to those fans who aren't kids any more.
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May 6, 2016 01:02
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It's funny that Thunderbolt still feels kind of weird for introducing two things that the UC was strange for not having; religion and nationalism(by people other than Zeon).
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May 6, 2016 01:03
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Just a friendly reminder that the Kapool got much, much more airtime in Turn A than it ever did as the Capule in ZZ. To the point where it's basically the cute mascot. Piloted by the other cute mascot.
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May 6, 2016 01:09
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T.G. Xarbala posted:Just a friendly reminder that the Kapool got much, much more airtime in Turn A than it ever did as the Capule in ZZ. To the point where it's basically the cute mascot. Piloted by the other cute mascot. I feel like Sochie is a bit more than a cute mascot. Wanna hug that Kapool though!
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May 6, 2016 01:12
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Droyer posted:I feel like Sochie is a bit more than a cute mascot. Fair, fair.
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May 6, 2016 03:05
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SeanBeansShako posted:Seriously, It's almost hilarious how confused you are in the first 15 minutes of CCA. yes to both of these i thought i had missed half the movie or something
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May 6, 2016 03:16
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Artum posted:It's funny that Thunderbolt still feels kind of weird for introducing two things that the UC was strange for not having; religion and nationalism(by people other than Zeon). It was interesting in War in the Pocket (at bare minimum in the dub) that they had Al pray in a pretty standard "Kid begging God for a favor" way. I mean, if the UC wasn't so low on religious references most of the time, it would be the most natural thing in the world, but as is, it kinda stands out. Stands out more since the Unicorn novels, in their little "You know, if you think about it, ZEON was the good guys." crusade, has the Federation attempt to stamp out religion for... reasons.
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May 6, 2016 04:08
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Does anyone have that screencap that juxtaposes Amuro and Char's conversation in Zeta with Char from counterattack?
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May 6, 2016 04:15
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Arcsquad12 posted:Does anyone have that screencap that juxtaposes Amuro and Char's conversation in Zeta with Char from counterattack? 
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May 6, 2016 04:40
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Some of the problems I have with Turn A is the comedy. Outside of crossdressing and the confusion that came with it, it wasn't funny nor clever. When your standard reaction to a joke becomes  because it doesn't rise above football to the groin. What other comedy that does rise above this is unintentional and tend to be based on cultural oddities like Harry's glasses, that sweater or the dark comedy of retro tech where people just keep getting killed because great plan guys, your Elan will give you the strength to die! Tomino is bad at comedy, he should let someone else do it.I almost love Build Fighters. It doesn't have anything about War, it is a personal struggle against the odds. You're not in a rush to move on as you want to stick around and see what clever little thing it does next. It isn't afraid to make some off colour jokes that embraces and mock the fans ala old man crushing on Murrue's breasts while adding another layer with the voice actor. Reiji is funny as he ends up in a very strange place and rolls with it without second thought while Sei is losing his poo poo about it as the straight man. The referential humour can be very problematic for those who haven't watch Gundam, but it doesn't lean on it too heavily. It is a viewer bonus like the Gunpla themselves. Each fight has meaning, looks and feel fantastic and are clever even when it is an seemingly intentional curb stomp battle like fighting with a ball or fighting with a Bear guy in this "very" serious tournament. The ending is a bit too hokey but whatever. The vibe from the fans for both shows are very different from what I have observed here. Alot of you insist Turn A is good while you let build fighters stand on it's own. Unlike Turn A you don't feel insecure about BF. BF can stand up just fine without being buttered up. Turn A just isn't a good show and not because it lacks blood and guts. MSG is superior even when it's goofy a hell, the inducing deaths that Tomino never gets away from and the blatant pushing of toys when the G-stuff shows up.
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May 6, 2016 04:57
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personally, i insist that Turn A is good because it is. as is BF, which i would be equally as insistent on.
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May 6, 2016 05:08
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poo poo you uncovered the hidden truth about turn a actually being bad and now we have to close down the thread and round up all the posters and "keep them quiet" if you know what i mean this is gonna be hell doing all this paperwork let me tell you
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May 6, 2016 05:14
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oohhboy posted:Some of the problems I have with Turn A is the comedy. Outside of crossdressing and the confusion that came with it, it wasn't funny nor clever. When your standard reaction to a joke becomes Considering that I'm arguing comedy with someone who thinks using a picard emoticon in mid sentence is clever, I know I'm facing an uphill battle, but I figure I should at least try. 1) Harry's glasses and sweater clearly are intentional comedy. Putting the slick, badass ace mobile suit pilot in the least fashionable clothing of all time doesn't happen by accident. I mean, just compare it to other Moonrace clothing. Even though some of it is pretty crazy looking, none of it clashes as much as Harry's casualwear, and that's by design. 2) The retrotech stuff is also clearly meant to be funny most of the time, in a dark humor way. It's part of the central theme of the show that pretty much nobody (other than Harry Ord) knows how the hell to fight a war when the series starts, but they're getting into it anyway as part of the dark legacy of mankind. It's a comedy of errors that sometimes turns into tragedy, because holy gently caress, these idiots just blew up hundreds of people. 3) A lot of the comedy is built off the characters. Like Loran and Gavan having a duel? You have the setup of Gavan being this bombastic would be dashing ace pilot who wants to settle things LIKE MEN, and Loran goes along with it since Loran is a guy who tends to go with the flow... And then someone comes along and points out how loving stupid this is, which is funny partially because the characters took things so seriously. 4) Football to the groin is inherently funny. Like, that's comedy 101.
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May 6, 2016 05:27
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poo poo, Gavan picks the Zaku 1 as his unit, thinking since it's different it must be better but nerds know he is completely wrong, highlighting the stupidity of "Ace Custom Units" in a subtle way.
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May 6, 2016 05:36
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I'm still trying to wrap my head around the whole "people always chime and say Turn A is good, that means it's actually bad!" thing.
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May 6, 2016 05:40
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Oh poo poo, I had completely forgotten about that scene in Zeta. This is fantastic.
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May 6, 2016 05:45
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I'm listening to the Gaia Gear for the billionth time and it's still loving great. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLPxFAsodN8 I've linked that video like five times before but I don't care.
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May 6, 2016 05:53
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Xinder posted:Oh poo poo, I had completely forgotten about that scene in Zeta. This is fantastic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQj2zqqSIks
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May 6, 2016 06:21
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Begemot posted:I'm still trying to wrap my head around the whole "people always chime and say Turn A is good, that means it's actually bad!" thing. If you disagree with me you're a desperate defense force cowering in the face of my objective truths.
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May 6, 2016 06:59
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chiasaur11 posted:Considering that I'm arguing comedy with someone who thinks using a picard emoticon in mid sentence is clever, I know I'm facing an uphill battle, but I figure I should at least try. I used the Picard emoticon as it as it perfectly represented how I felt, not because I was trying to make some edgy statement. 1. I saw it as unintentional as by that point due to how unfunny the clearly intentional stuff was. It felt if Tomino had stumbled on a joke that works. 2. They never learn, they die. It's funny the first time, but as the show goes on you are begging them to come up with something more substantial than Elan, it becomes filler to stretch out 50 episodes, it's not even tragic or sad anymore, it's assisted suicide. I can't care about you guys if you don't care about yourselves or want to live. 3. That was suppose to be funny? It was pretty insufferable. A far better joke would be Loren just repeatedly walking away leaving Gavan hanging until it comes to a literal punch line where Loren causally decks him and walks away clearly tired of the whole thing. Loren might be a go with the flow guy, but he surely must have some agency of his own. But no, got to make another quick forced joke. 4. You never saw that Simpson episode that mocks that level of joke right? Yeah it's comedy 101, but you have to move pass it to something better. It's a starter, not the main course. It comes back to Tomino's inability to do better.
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May 6, 2016 07:08
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I think you're reading too much into things whenever you go on these extended tirades. And you're also always trying to pick a fight, which I still think is weird as gently caress. I don't delve deeply into discussion of Build Fighters because I haven't watched it. And I haven't watched it because it didn't appeal to me. Just because it's not to my tastes despite it being a thread favorite doesn't mean the thread is secretly wrong about my objectively correct true feelings. Incidentally, I didn't really like G-Reco and don't particularly like Tomino and say so repeatedly, yet somehow people allow my opinions to stand on their own without feeling that I'm somehow being antagonistic to everyone when I say so. Wonder why. I remember when people would go "I know this sounds weird, but actually I really liked Turn A." Then someone would sheepishly pipe up and admit, "Actually, I really liked Turn A too. I figured nobody else did." I love Turn A to bits and I realize the actual plot's all over the place, but I genuinely thought it was a fun and enjoyable romp. I wound up growing attached to the characters in a way that I never did with the SEED cast, partly because the action was low key and I enjoyed watching people just being... people. Even filtered through Tomino being Tomino. There was something legitimately endearing about the whole show. EDIT: Imagine I said something witty about personal taste here. Runa fucked around with this message at 07:53 on May 6, 2016 |
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May 6, 2016 07:24
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Incidentally nothing about Thunderbolt appeals to me at all but I'm not going to treat it as a windmill to tilt at.
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May 6, 2016 07:25
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Sudden Out Of Character Physical Violence is just as lowbrow as a groin shot.
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May 6, 2016 07:27
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More grimdark please. No funny business. Just war. more war.
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May 6, 2016 08:52
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The GIG posted:Sudden Out Of Character Physical Violence is just as lowbrow as a groin shot. If nothing else it would have been different. Loren doesn't want to fight but is repeatedly pushed into it. He had the choice to walk away and didn't. It could have been a setup for a long form joke, something above a groin shot. It wouldn't be out of character for Loren to deck the guy after repeatedly being pushed. There is a build up, you feel for Loren as he gets harassed, each time he walks away it's a small joke in itself as Gavan would debase himself with his reaction from his misplace ideas of fighting, ending with catharsis as Gavan finally gets the message. Shinjobi posted:More grimdark please. No funny business. Just war.
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May 6, 2016 09:03
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oohhboy posted:If nothing else it would have been different. Loren doesn't want to fight but is repeatedly pushed into it. He had the choice to walk away and didn't. It could have been a setup for a long form joke, something above a groin shot. It wouldn't be out of character for Loren to deck the guy after repeatedly being pushed. There is a build up, you feel for Loren as he gets harassed, each time he walks away it's a small joke in itself as Gavan would debase himself with his reaction from his misplace ideas of fighting, ending with catharsis as Gavan finally gets the message. quote:Better jokes please. Hey let's go for a two for one. Gavan does his puffing up. Loran ignores him and go and has an important conversation about current events. We hear Gavan going on in the background and everytime Loran responds to the convo he's actually having we slide the camera over to Gavan who thinks the response is for him and continues. Eventually Gavan thinks Loran has agreed just as Loran ends his important conversation, and Gavan rushes him as Loran turns around, the resulting impact stuns Loran while taking out Gavan, something like an accidental knee to the groin or Loran's forehead bonking and busting his nose. After that have Gavan treat it like he really had been defeated in a duel and have Loran be adorably clueless. See, my version kept the same beats as yours, but somewhat still fits the series tone and has the chance of advancing the plot. Plus it shows how foolish the dude is and how misplaced his ideals are without your terrible idea of character development.
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May 6, 2016 09:38
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BF "stands on its own" since there's honestly not a lot to say about it in comparison to Turn A. It's a solidly executed sports show but not exactly the sort of thing that bears fruit when you dig deeper into it.
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May 6, 2016 09:45
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The GIG posted:Hey let's go for a two for one. Gavan does his puffing up. Loran ignores him and go and has an important conversation about current events. We hear Gavan going on in the background and everytime Loran responds to the convo he's actually having we slide the camera over to Gavan who thinks the response is for him and continues. Eventually Gavan thinks Loran has agreed just as Loran ends his important conversation, and Gavan rushes him as Loran turns around, the resulting impact stuns Loran while taking out Gavan, something like an accidental knee to the groin or Loran's forehead bonking and busting his nose. After that have Gavan treat it like he really had been defeated in a duel and have Loran be adorably clueless. It works. Shorter time scale, definitely better than what actually happens. Sure it might end in a groin shot, but there is more to it than that. Srice posted:BF "stands on its own" since there's honestly not a lot to say about it in comparison to Turn A. It's a solidly executed sports show but not exactly the sort of thing that bears fruit when you dig deeper into it.
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May 6, 2016 10:37
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oohhboy posted:I brought up BF because someone thought that I thought that Gundam needs war, blood and guts Etc to be a Gundam show. You can address people directly when you know they're also following the conversation.
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May 6, 2016 13:23
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An impression, by the way, that wasn't helped by your own essays on the topic.
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May 6, 2016 13:32
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I think what it comes down to is that you don't like Tomino, and while that's all well and good it makes it odd that you continue to keep trying to like gundam. Most people have an idea of what kind of stuff they don't enjoy watching, and they make a point to avoid stuff like it. While it's admirable you keep giving Tomino a chance, I'd much rather not jump into the thread and see you go off on YET ANOTHER rant about how a show that works for almost everyone else has secretly been poo poo this whole time. Gundam is Tomino's baby, and his pros and cons have remained pretty consistent throughout the franchise. At some point you just need to cut your losses and stop trying to like his work. It doesn't seem to be doing anything for you. Now pardon me, I'm going to go post in the KyoAni thread for the 2000th time and explain to them how the studio is actually poo poo and ruining anime.
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May 6, 2016 15:14
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Is Advance of Zeta worth a read? I've recently taken a shine to the look of some of the Hazel Gunpla kits, so got interested. Wanted to see how well the explain all the extra Gundam suits inserted into gaps in the timeline.
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May 6, 2016 15:17
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BizarroAzrael posted:Is Advance of Zeta worth a read? I've recently taken a shine to the look of some of the Hazel Gunpla kits, so got interested. Wanted to see how well the explain all the extra Gundam suits inserted into gaps in the timeline. Eeeh. It's really boring at least to me. The kits are the only meaningful thing from it.
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May 6, 2016 15:20
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