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KakerMix posted:Mod managers are rad and it is easier than ever but that's still too hard for people. If you are going to say something like 'then those players don't get to play the mods' then that's mean, everyone should be able to play Mean, but reality. For two reasons: one, it's table stakes that modding any bethesda game means managing conflicts because of how mods fundamentally work in gamebryo, and two, a bunch of shithead mod authors actively trying to sabotage any attempts at making it easier than it currently is. Only one of those problems is solvable, you know? Psion fucked around with this message at 22:08 on May 5, 2016 |
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May 5, 2016 22:04
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it's sad that skyrim probably won't have a MGSO or a Weidu at least for a decade, or maybe until the next one comes out. Even oblivion doesn't have a OGSO yet.
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May 5, 2016 22:15
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KakerMix posted:Mod managers are rad and it is easier than ever but that's still too hard for people. If you are going to say something like 'then those players don't get to play the mods' then that's mean, everyone should be able to play I kind of agree with you, but I'm using mod organiser, and I've figured out all of the functions I need to use for myself pretty much just through right clicking the logical things, and copy/pasting file paths. If you know how to look through folders on your computer and what the 'data' folder is for in skyrim, you can do it. Now my MO install downloads mods from the nexus, I click once to install it, click again to sort the load order, and I'm done. Raygereio posted:
Also I don't want to get all  but yeah, kinda, it sounds more technical and intimidating than it actually is.
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May 5, 2016 22:47
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Everyone is able to play.
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I don't disagree with you guys, a part of the fun is modding the game yourself and everything is cool and we post about it etc, but the ultimate goal of someone that makes modded content *should* be getting as many people to experience it as possible. Now I'm biased of course because I do https://www.technicpack.net which exists soley to take mod content created for Minecraft and slide it all the way down to a single button press on behalf of the user. The way it works there is people just love to make mods, people love to organize those mods into modpacks and users love to play those modpacks. Granted you can't 1:1 Skyrim and Minecraft like this and Skyrim isn't multiplayer, but that ability is there for people to create packages for people. Just like in Minecraft people could make little themed packages for other people to play and wow it could be great. Just a shame the community eats itself because people have hellacious egos but that's just people in general I guess, and the idea that you have to 'put time and effort' into modding Skyrim doesn't really help things, it just gives a platform to egos. KakerMix fucked around with this message at 23:02 on May 5, 2016 |
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May 5, 2016 22:59
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KakerMix posted:Mod managers are rad and it is easier than ever but that's still too hard for people. If you are going to say something like 'then those players don't get to play the mods' then that's mean, everyone should be able to play Some things just have a steeper learning curve than others. The thing is that the other way, with vetted pre-assembled mod packs, people who can't or don't want to make that poo poo themselves are relying on people who can putting them together. But the people who can don't really have to because they can do it much more flexibly with a manager. So the making these packs becomes like a weird charitable cause, but at the end of the day, it's an inferior product because you're getting some guy's opinion of all the hottest mods when the option of figuring it out yourself is easier than ever. Edit: And I do think it should be even easier and I think it sucks that self-important babies are holding back the kinds of systems needed to make that happen. So idk I'm not really taking a moral stand just kinda looking at the situation as it is and saying that within the context of this pretty toxic modding community, there's never been a better time to mod even without premade packs. GunnerJ fucked around with this message at 23:31 on May 5, 2016 |
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May 5, 2016 23:27
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GunnerJ posted:Some things just have a steeper learning curve than others. The thing is that the other way, with vetted pre-assembled mod packs, people who can't or don't want to make that poo poo themselves are relying on people who can putting them together. But the people who can don't really have to because they can do it much more flexibly with a manager. So the making these packs becomes like a weird charitable cause, but at the end of the day, it's an inferior product because you're getting some guy's opinion of all the hottest mods when the option of figuring it out yourself is easier than ever. Yeah, that's what makes the way the Mod Picker stuff went down so disappointing: if I understand the system right, it was supposed to combine the best of both worlds in letting people put up their preferred mod loadouts and state their opinions why while still making it easy for new folks to figure out for themselves what exact mod experience they want. But of course, the  Ego Brigade seems to be doing a pretty good job of strangling it in it's crib.
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May 6, 2016 00:39
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Whizbang posted:Don't add or remove mods midgame. It's mostly removing them. Adding mods midgame isn't terrible. In fact, some mods it's recommended to be a little ways in, or even required! (Helgen Reborn, for example) When your remove mods, there is tons of leftover poo poo that fucks your save game up, especially scripts. Never do that.
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May 6, 2016 04:42
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Baron posted:When your remove mods, there is tons of leftover poo poo that fucks your save game up, especially scripts. Never do that. yeah but let's be honest, people are going to do it anyway so hopefully the New Thread OP will have a bit on how to clean saves to at least stave off problems. and some mods you can get away with swapping in and out forever, so some guidance on that is reasonable. scripts, as you say, can be an issue.
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May 6, 2016 05:37
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I kinda look at that moment your save is officially too broken to continue as the natural end for that particular character anyway. By that time, you probably have a good idea of what you liked and wanted to keep and can start over with a pretty stable list (until you start browsing new mods and add a whole new batch of poo poo midway and break it eventually again).
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May 6, 2016 05:41
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I guess in my mind, never removing mods is Rule #2, right behind Use Mod Organizer. If your really want your 250 mod Skyrim playthrough to last for more than a few hours, I believe it's mandatory. Even with save cleaners and whatnot. Personally I hope that the new OP has this with  flashing sirens, instead of ways to delay the inevitable.edit: with the exception of texture mods. As long as it doesn't have an ESP, add it and remove it all day. Baron fucked around with this message at 06:06 on May 6, 2016 |
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May 6, 2016 06:01
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Civil War Overhaul is the only mod I know of that absolutely requires a brand new save game. Obviously the Alternate Start mods require a new save. Sometimes a .bsa file is loaded with a .esp file, and the .esp file does absolutely nothing except enable the bsa. Mod Organizer can handle loading .bsa files itself. Sometimes a mod gets updated. If it's a good modder, they will have upgrade instructions. Even if it's as simple as "replace over the old one." If it's a bad modder they won't even post a changelog. I generally do a brand new save game whenever I add a whole bunch of mods. If a mod can let you disable it mid-game, a good modder will say that uninstalling it is fine. But if it heavily uses scripts, you can't remove that thing ever.
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May 6, 2016 07:25
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SatelliteCore posted:I did it midgame and had no problems. I also have only 25 or so mods and they are all graphical/QoL so YMMV. Well, I went with the aggregate of advice here, fired all my followers, didn't uninstall anything, installed SPERG - and HOLY poo poo was that the right idea. Even 2H is hella fun now. Seorin is a god-drat hero. My only regret is that I wasted 300+h agonising between vanilla perks. Game seems fine, actually - bizarrely - less buggy, but I only played 5 hours and I guess it could have sowed my save with all kinds of future ruin and insanity. Though so far: totally worth it.
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May 6, 2016 10:23
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kilinrax posted:Well, I went with the aggregate of advice here, fired all my followers, didn't uninstall anything, installed SPERG - and HOLY poo poo was that the right idea. Even 2H is hella fun now. Seorin is a god-drat hero. Yeah, SPERG makes any tree viable. Even the "useless" lockpicking tree.
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May 6, 2016 13:36
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SPERG rocks. My only problem with it is that it fucks up brawling. I think it's the bare-handed perk in the heavy armour tree. Only way I found to get around it is to reset your perks, beat the poo poo out of someone, then reselect your perks. Small price to pay for a mod that games gameplay about twice as fun across the board.
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May 6, 2016 15:12
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doctor 7 posted:SPERG rocks. My only problem with it is that it fucks up brawling. I think it's the bare-handed perk in the heavy armour tree. There's a option in the SPERG settings to fix brawling. Of course, use the "cheaty" script that fixes brawling. Keep in mind that unarmed is inside the Pickpocketing tree. I actually prefer the Unarmed Combat Patch for SPERG. It makes unarmed not basically require you to be drunk to be effective. Of course there's still the Fists of Steel perk in the Heavy tree for more punching power.
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May 6, 2016 15:18
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IAmTheRad posted:It makes unarmed not basically require you to be drunk to be effective. Why would you want this??
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May 6, 2016 15:24
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Squeegy posted:Why would you want this?? Specifically: Alcoholic drinks will now cause drunken effects with increasingly severe penalties. There is a SPERG patch for CACO, don't you worry. Right here
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May 6, 2016 15:26
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IAmTheRad posted:There's a option in the SPERG settings to fix brawling. Of course, use the "cheaty" script that fixes brawling. Keep in mind that unarmed is inside the Pickpocketing tree. I actually prefer the Unarmed Combat Patch for SPERG. It makes unarmed not basically require you to be drunk to be effective. Of course there's still the Fists of Steel perk in the Heavy tree for more punching power. Yeah I've messed with those settings and they simply don't work for me.  only thing I have found that does is resetting all the perks.
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May 6, 2016 15:36
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Random SPERG question - anyone know how Mage Oil judges "high quality jewelry"? Will it recognise modded jewelry like Ebony Arcane Double Rings?
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May 6, 2016 15:49
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kilinrax posted:Random SPERG question - anyone know how Mage Oil judges "high quality jewelry"? Will it recognise modded jewelry like Ebony Arcane Double Rings? Probably? If seorin did it the way I think he did as long as the modded jewelry is "high value" and goes in the jewelry slot you'll be fine
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May 6, 2016 15:55
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kilinrax posted:Random SPERG question - anyone know how Mage Oil judges "high quality jewelry"? Will it recognise modded jewelry like Ebony Arcane Double Rings? Make a few jewelry pieces with various worth and check how much the enchantment value changes. I did some testing a while ago and you reach the max buff amount already with fairly low values, anything above 150-250 was enough I think, so pretty much anything with a gem in it (I forgot the exact number). Edit: In other content, just finished Blackreach Railroad. How the hell did he fit all of that into a 14mb mod? Goddamn that's some majestic trainstuff. Also finished Aethernautics a while ago. It's... well, it's a bit of a walking simulator, but a good one. The weapons are fun, the environments impressive, the lore pieces are a good read; there's just not a whole lot to do apart from walking around and enjoying things. Fleve fucked around with this message at 16:18 on May 6, 2016 |
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May 6, 2016 16:13
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kilinrax posted:Random SPERG question - anyone know how Mage Oil judges "high quality jewelry"? Will it recognise modded jewelry like Ebony Arcane Double Rings? If the jewelry has the JewelryExpensive keyword attached to it it is treated as high quality jewelry by sperg. the JewelryExpensive keyword is from skyrim so if the Modder added the right tags it should work.
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May 6, 2016 16:26
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KakerMix posted:Now I'm biased of course because I do https://www.technicpack.net which exists soley to take mod content created for Minecraft and slide it all the way down to a single button press on behalf of the user. The way it works there is people just love to make mods, people love to organize those mods into modpacks and users love to play those modpacks. Granted you can't 1:1 Skyrim and Minecraft like this and Skyrim isn't multiplayer, but that ability is there for people to create packages for people. Just like in Minecraft people could make little themed packages for other people to play and wow it could be great. Sure, technically it is possible to create a installer that allows you to pick and choose what you want. But I'm looking at the time it would take me to create that and can't help but think that I could spend that time having fun playing the game. Instead of creating something that I don't see as having that much use as learning how to install mods & create basic compatiblity patches isn't difficult to learn. I do get where you're comming from with wanting to make it more accesible though. Tell you what: If you or anyone else ever feel like starting a project like a modpacks, I'd be more then willing to help out. KakerMix posted:and the idea that you have to 'put time and effort' into modding Skyrim doesn't really help things, it just gives a platform to egos. The ego comes from people going "I know something you don't, therefore I'm better then you." That was partially what the mod picker drama is all about : People were upset that "mere mod users" could have a platform where they could freely give their opinion about mods. I don't think there's anyone with an attitude like that in this thread. When people come asking for help, help is generally offered. Speaking of which: Agents are GO! posted:Also if anyone would care to volunteer to write more indepth guides for various aspects of modding
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May 6, 2016 17:02
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delta534 posted:If the jewelry has the JewelryExpensive keyword attached to it it is treated as high quality jewelry by sperg. the JewelryExpensive keyword is from skyrim so if the Modder added the right tags it should work. I found any jewelry with an actual gem in it seems to qualify. Even silver garnets or whatever is shittiest.
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May 6, 2016 17:23
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IAmTheRad posted:Because there's a mod that makes drinking too much alcohol a bad thing. It's called CACO. Patch maker here: I don't think anything in the patch deals with alcohol effects for unarmed combat, or whether it needs to. Just pointing that out. Maybe it's something I should look into when I have time.
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May 6, 2016 17:28
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Raygereio posted:The main problem I see with modpacks for Bethesda-games is that everone's idea of must-have mods and how they want their game to play, feel, look is different. That's the beauty of modding: You can customize your play experience to what you personally want. I guess I don't see the charm in everything being totally custom and packs being unavailble. I don't have a personal artistic vision for what I want my skyrim game to be. I just want to replay the game with prettier graphics, content I haven't seen, and maybe some mechanical tweeks to keep it feeling new. I would be happy with a good mod pack. If there were many packs available, I could probably get a lot of fun out of playing different packs with different looks and feels. Raygereio posted:This got burried in the Mod Picker drama a while back. Got any topics you'd like to see covered? How to create a compatability patch would be a nice one.
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May 6, 2016 17:30
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GunnerJ posted:Patch maker here: I don't think anything in the patch deals with alcohol effects for unarmed combat, or whether it needs to. Just pointing that out. Maybe it's something I should look into when I have time. Do the insane thing and make the CACO-SPERG-Ordinatored patch. You know you want to.
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May 6, 2016 17:41
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IAmTheRad posted:Do the insane thing and make the CACO-SPERG-Ordinatored patch. You know you want to. No... I don't.... n-noo... 
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May 6, 2016 17:44
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I'm having a hard time trying out Ordinator because it doesn't have the Frostfall "Survival" perk tree that SPERG has but then I think "do I really even like the frostfall perk tree" and the answer is almost always "I never put any points in it"
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May 6, 2016 17:58
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I've been enjoying SPERG a lot, almost every tree is great. The only one I don't much like is the light armor tree. Nomad for faster horses is sweet, but everything else seems very underwhelming when compared to the heavy tree. You get all the good stuff in the heavy armor tree, like defenses against magics, arrows, and melee. 'Iron Will' against paralysis and enemy unrelenting force shouts feels almost mandatory (especially for some of Trainwiz' mods). Meanwhile with light armor I... get to run away a lot? I've also avoided the conjuration tree, but mostly because the good stuff I get to conjure from Apocalypse is neither undead nor an atronach, and most of the specialization SPERG perks for conjuration mention either undead or atronachs specifically, making me wonder whether they'd have any effect at all on all the cool daedra I prefer to conjure. Is SPERG-Ordinator good?
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May 6, 2016 18:05
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Fleve posted:I've been enjoying SPERG a lot, almost every tree is great. The only one I don't much like is the light armor tree. Nomad for faster horses is sweet, but everything else seems very underwhelming when compared to the heavy tree. You get all the good stuff in the heavy armor tree, like defenses against magics, arrows, and melee. 'Iron Will' against paralysis and enemy unrelenting force shouts feels almost mandatory (especially for some of Trainwiz' mods). Meanwhile with light armor I... get to run away a lot? Well that's the idea though. As a practical matter in vanilla Skyrim using light armor is a no-brainer because it can easily be smithed to par with heavy armor for protection purposes but doesn't slow you down or ruin your sneaking or require a standing stone to not have your armor taking up half your carry weight for a significant chunk of the game. So I don't mind Heavy Armor getting all the good perks in SPERG. Light Armor should be what you wear if your goal is avoiding being attacked altogether, Heavy Armor is what you wear if you expect to actually engage in combat.
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May 6, 2016 19:11
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Are there any recommended mods for playing a mostly archery based character? I've already got SPERG, so I don't specifically need perks. I just didn't know if there was anything particular people found useful or enjoyable for a marksman, or if it mostly is fine as it is.
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May 6, 2016 21:27
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Dunno what you'd need mods for, Stealth Archer is the default way to play Skyrim for a reason (reason: archery is overpowered). Attempts have been made at making arrow damage dependent on where on the victim's body the arrow strikes, but never successfully, it can't be done with Skyrim's engine.
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May 6, 2016 21:41
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Yeah, if there were something specific I knew I needed I'd have asked a more directed question. I figured I'd ask in case there were some neat mod I didn't know about. 
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May 6, 2016 21:46
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I use Basic Crossbow Collection I think to add in some fairly decent new crossbow tiers. Something like Stealth Skills Rebalance's sneak module could help make it a little more strategic and less idiotic. I did do a character once trying to do archery without sneaking. I think it was a Sylvannas-inspired Banshee Orc using heavy armor and conjuration to make meaty distractions.
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May 6, 2016 21:57
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It's 100% cosmetic but I've been using this replacer (I think that's the one anyway -- am going by memory) because most of the quivers are kinda gross and gaudy and I got sick of looking at them. I think I actually had it working with a couple of other replacers so that the dragonbone arrows didn't look so dumb and...something else I can't remember.  I also started using Skyrim Realistic Archery primarily to reduce collision so if I was standing on a ledge I could snipe from it easier -- trying to shoot down at dudes and having your arrows stick into the air or bounce off nothing, especially in a sneak position, is super annoying and that mod reduces it a lot although it doesn't eliminate it completely. It lets you mess with a lot of stuff but I left most of it at default.
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May 6, 2016 22:18
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I've used ABT - Arrows and Bolts Tweaks, Proper Aiming, and for fun immersive play, Scoped Bows. I also like Belt-Fastened Quivers because they just look better to me.
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May 6, 2016 22:52
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Zaodai posted:Are there any recommended mods for playing a mostly archery based character? I've already got SPERG, so I don't specifically need perks. I just didn't know if there was anything particular people found useful or enjoyable for a marksman, or if it mostly is fine as it is. Ordinator actually makes archery better. Makes it so that stealtharcher isn't the only strategy.
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May 7, 2016 03:13
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Sorry I haven't gotten much done on the new OP recently: after getting over Strep Throat, I managed to hurt my back and I can't even sit at my PC. Yay. Btw, the recent conversation has reminded me of a couple answers that will be in the FAQ: "Guide to removing mods mid-playthrough: Don't." And "Are there any modpacks I can download because I just want to play the game! Short answer: LOL No. Long answer: Modding is the game.  "
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May 7, 2016 04:11
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Agents are GO! posted:Btw, the recent conversation has reminded me of a couple answers that will be in the FAQ: first, I agree with this guide 100% second, I removed 20 mods from a save mid-playthrough and it was FINE  that said, uh, if you plan to live on the edge and you like your characters learn how to export presets. Just in case.
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May 7, 2016 04:57
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