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There shouldn't be any ambiguity because replacing a model's melee attacks with a grenade attack is entirely different from loving throwing the goddamned thing.  I don't think I've ever seen anyone use frag/krak grenades in the shooting phase to begin with and I definitely haven't seen anyone use them for overwatch which is what I think this ruling is trying to apply itself to though frag grenades would be a non-issue due to being blasts. Except for the fact that GW's rules folks don't understand the difference. What the gently caress is even happening here?
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May 6, 2016 20:48
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The good news is that melta bombs aren't affected. The bad news is that regular grenades are, which is a big buff for box dreadnaughts, admech robits, and tanks. A 20 man tactical squad stood a good chance to taking out a vorax each turn. Now they're basically dead meat if they get charged.
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May 6, 2016 20:54
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BULBASAUR posted:A 20 man tactical squad stood a good chance to taking out a vorax each turn. Now they're basically dead meat if they get charged. Finally getting some Legio Cybernetica buffs!
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May 6, 2016 20:57
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BULBASAUR posted:The good news is that melta bombs aren't affected. The bad news is that regular grenades are, which is a big buff for box dreadnaughts, admech robits, and tanks. Let's have a Horus vs. Castellax showdown.
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May 6, 2016 21:03
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Horus vs Scoria, no bodyguards, no shooting, final destination
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May 6, 2016 21:26
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Welp, I dove in I guess. Ordered 2 leviathans, a sicaran venator, and some weapon options, and getting a Calth box tomorrow. Looks like I can build out 2500 points pretty easy with that + the few bits and bobs I have lying around.
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May 6, 2016 21:43
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Mr.Booger posted:Welp, I dove in I guess. Ordered 2 leviathans, a sicaran venator, and some weapon options, and getting a Calth box tomorrow. Looks like I can build out 2500 points pretty easy with that + the few bits and bobs I have lying around. If you play against other people who only have BAC you're going to make a lot of enemies. Also looks like FW finally worked out the last kinks in the stormbird. 
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May 6, 2016 21:57
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Mango Polo posted:If you play against other people who only have BAC you're going to make a lot of enemies. LOL, nope, my group is pretty into spending money on toys. I think we have 7 titans among us, and all the bits and bobs, fireraptors a plenty floating round last time I went. My co-worker next to me was planning his purchase for next week for all the raven guard unique units and primarch. For the meta here I am but dipping my toe in 
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May 6, 2016 22:08
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surely the stormbird isn't just going to be a limited release?
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May 6, 2016 22:43
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A 50S RAYGUN posted:surely the stormbird isn't just going to be a limited release?
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May 6, 2016 22:48
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krursk posted:Edit: Melta-bombs don't really count as grenades though right? You can't throw them like grenades. BULBASAUR posted:Melta bombs are bombs and not grenades, and are not thrown, so you can basically ignore this.   They're grenades dudes. Just a lot of people (myself and my group included) thought that throwing a grenade referred to using them in the shooting phase and everyone with a grenade could use a single one in assault. With the clarification Tankbustas are crippled and there's really no point to buying grenades for a whole squad unless they're assault or defensive 
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May 6, 2016 23:11
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hahahahahahahahaha
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May 6, 2016 23:22
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although to be fair I always thought it worked the way they clarified it to work. It's why I think the rules are basically poo poo, like there's not reason for not allowing a bunch of dudes to not throw grenades, thats why they ALL have them right?
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May 6, 2016 23:25
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If they'd just used the word "used" instead of "thrown" in that bold bit none of this would have ever come up and we'd have worked through how stupid it was years ago.
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May 6, 2016 23:36
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i had always played it the way it was clarified, i thought the discussion of what a grenade being 'thrown' entailed was petty semantics bickering. i didn't know it actually had traction.
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May 6, 2016 23:37
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They refer to the line saying 'Only one grenade (of any type) can be thrown by a unit per phase’. Melta bombs are not thrown Anyway it's clearly against the intention, but will be hilarious if they make it so all those 50 point upgrades only gives you 1 attack
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May 7, 2016 00:06
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BULBASAUR posted:They refer to the line saying 'Only one grenade (of any type) can be thrown by a unit per phase’. Melta bombs are not thrown Melta bombs aren't thrown in the shooting phase, but are thrown in the assault phase. This is GW using "thrown" like "shoot" or "strike" to describe something being used and using typical language that communicates something other than what they're trying to convey. They then go on to use "throw" when describing shooting attacks made with other grenades but then say "use" when describing them in the assault phase which further muddies the waters. But its all moot now with the clarification: quote:Q: Using grenades in the Assault phase. Can every model replace their close combat attacks with a single grenade attack or just one model in the unit? Like in the Shooting phase e.g. a unit of 5 Tau Pathfinders charge a Knight. Do 5 Pathfinders make close combat haywire grenade attacks? e: To be clear I was with your reading Bulba, because it didn't make much sense for only one model to be able to use a grenade in the context of paying per model for the upgrade. This is stupid as hell and makes me really concerned if all these books have been written with a 5ppm upgrade on the assumption that only one of them can use them in a phase.
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May 7, 2016 00:43
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I mean I thought it was dumb as hell but regular squads usually only get Meltabombs on the Sarge anyway. Soz for units which all have meltabombs, I guess Terminators or Vets with Powerfists are going to be more popular?
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May 7, 2016 02:12
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They seem to be more of a liability now because even though you only get one swing everyone in the squad has a chance to hurt the front armour of that Leviathan so you can't use Our Weapons Are Useless to disengage.
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May 7, 2016 02:44
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I'm with you wang, it's silly. It's obviously not considering unit upgrades and in 30k melta bombs are staples in a number of unit builds. The bigger thing is that regular grenades don't do poo poo anymore. So your AV10 predators, AV12 dreadnaughts, and T6 MCs have less to fear from big mobs of infantry.
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May 7, 2016 02:45
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Although really Lascannons are still alright
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May 7, 2016 03:02
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it was dumb that the best way to kill tanks was to run a bunch of dudes on foot at it and you were dumb if you didn't feel that way
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May 7, 2016 03:07
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A 50S RAYGUN posted:it was dumb that the best way to kill tanks was to run a bunch of dudes on foot at it and you were dumb if you didn't feel that way I dunno if this is serious but it's what I told my friends. Slapping sticky bombs on a massive tank shouldn't be the best AT in the game. Re: why pay for the whole squad then? To ensure you get at least one in. If you buy it for Sgt only and he dies then you're done.
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May 7, 2016 03:10
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does anyone here play with or against solar auxilia?
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May 7, 2016 04:22
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A 50S RAYGUN posted:i thought fnp saves already weren't allowed against ID hits, even with EW This.
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May 9, 2016 00:40
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Swiggity swooty, we're coming for that STC
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May 9, 2016 11:56
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Eh the hooked claws look a little odd. I would have preferred lightning claw style wolverine blades. Heads are a bit strange as well. Are they good on the tabletop?
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May 9, 2016 12:10
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Like them a little more now I've seen them painted, still prefer the normal Thallax head. Any indication on how many Lightning Claw/Power Fist pairs are in each set?
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May 9, 2016 12:19
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They will hopefully come with a complete set of both. Looking at the hands it would be incredibly cheap of FW not to. As for performance, I think they sort of get overshadowed by the Vorax.
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May 9, 2016 12:22
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Dittoing their performance, Vorax may need a Cortex Controller to babysit them at times but they're so much more efficient, especially after gaining the Poisoned upgrade for their Rotor Cannons.
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May 9, 2016 12:25
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Yeah, but the Vorax can't bearhug a motherfucker and loving disintegrate them with their chest volkite. I'd run the gently caress out of those guys (if I had a mechanicum army) just for that dumb gimmick because that's how 30k should be.
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May 9, 2016 17:44
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minmaxers should go play a game that's actually well balanced so i can play my dumb gimmick theme lists in loving peace
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May 9, 2016 20:52
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adamantium|wang posted:If they'd just used the word "used" instead of "thrown" in that bold bit none of this would have ever come up and we'd have worked through how stupid it was years ago. adamantium|wang posted:Melta bombs aren't thrown in the shooting phase, but are thrown in the assault phase. This is GW using "thrown" like "shoot" or "strike" to describe something being used and using typical language that communicates something other than what they're trying to convey. They then go on to use "throw" when describing shooting attacks made with other grenades but then say "use" when describing them in the assault phase which further muddies the waters. There's so many examples of stuff like this in the codex it drives me crazy. Every other sentence seems to change the language just to be ambiguous. I don't know who the hell edits the codexes but they don't seem to do very much. GW could pay me with a few models and I'd be happy to go through the books with a red pen and point out all the changes in language. Consistency is super important when writing rulebooks, its not like fiction where you actually want to vary up your language!
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May 9, 2016 20:58
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A 50S RAYGUN posted:minmaxers should go play a game that's actually well balanced so i can play my dumb gimmick theme lists in loving peace How to be competitively fluffy: 1. Take a Siege Breaker HQ 2. Take 9 phosphex rapiers 3. Take whatever the gently caress you want 4. ??? 5. The entire planet is on fire
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May 9, 2016 21:11
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Mango Polo posted:How to be competitively fluffy: Its the Ironfire rite of war!
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May 9, 2016 21:26
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does anyone know if the current razorback kit has top doors? Thinking of getting them instead of rhinos and turning the turrets into tarantulas (its only 4 bucks more)
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May 9, 2016 21:36
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Hencoe posted:Its the Ironfire rite of war! Before I moved a few months ago, my area's Alpha Legion player started off playing Death Guard and Salamanders. She didn't repaint them when she switched to Alpha Legion, and painted new models as whatever other Legion she felt like at the time. 
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May 9, 2016 21:48
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Weird, I thought Panascope kept his sex change private
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May 9, 2016 22:09
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Mr.Booger posted:does anyone know if the current razorback kit has top doors? Thinking of getting them instead of rhinos and turning the turrets into tarantulas (its only 4 bucks more) Box comes with the full Rhino kit and a separate Razorback sprue. So yes.
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May 9, 2016 22:15
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Thinking about starting a Night Lords army, having read through their fluff in a few books, they seem fantastically screwed up. Does anyone run them or play against them? How do they tend to do?
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May 10, 2016 01:29
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