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BurningStone posted:I've heard that WWI is remembered in Eastern Europe, not well, but not as badly as it is in Western. Opinions from anybody from that area? WWI?  Oh wait... you mean that one conflict that broke apart three empires and gave birth to multiple new national states? Oh now I remember! Yeah, that was pretty cool. From a Finnish point of view, the Great War wasn't that great as there were food shortages. At the same time, war created industrial jobs. While there initially was a scare of Zeppelin raids, Finland wasn't touched by the war apart from some U-boat attacks until 1917 when the Russian govenrment collapsed and Finland declared independence, resulting in a bloody civil war. Germany then sent a division to occupy Helsinki and Finns almost elected a German prince to be their king, but then WW1 ended.
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May 7, 2016 23:39
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BurningStone posted:I've heard that WWI is remembered in Eastern Europe, not well, but not as badly as it is in Western. Opinions from anybody from that area? Serbia lost over a million people, out of a population of about four at the time. To give you a sense of scale, the UK lost less people than that.
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May 7, 2016 23:42
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my dad posted:Serbia lost over a million people, out of a population of about four at the time. To give you a sense of scale, the UK lost less people than that. So it's remembered fondly?
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May 7, 2016 23:45
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Nenonen posted:So it's remembered fondly? In a "Well, our side won, so we weren't exterminated, yay." way.
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May 7, 2016 23:48
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SlothfulCobra posted:I think a better question might be how WW2 got a bit of a "good war" reputation. The wars before and after don't seem to have that good of a reputation (aside from the ones that pop culture tends to forget happened), but WW2's the one that everybody loves and makes movies and video games for. The people who were around for it have even been dubbed "the greatest generation" for being present for the last time major powers fought directly. Regarding movies and such, I've always thought WWII had just the right tech level. Lots of cool machines, but being pre-integrated circuit era things were still "raw" and simple enough that it just makes for a cool background that people like to make movies about. That and the Nazis make for a very convenient bad guy.
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May 7, 2016 23:48
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SlothfulCobra posted:I think a better question might be how WW2 got a bit of a "good war" reputation. The wars before and after don't seem to have that good of a reputation (aside from the ones that pop culture tends to forget happened), but WW2's the one that everybody loves and makes movies and video games for. The people who were around for it have even been dubbed "the greatest generation" for being present for the last time major powers fought directly. You mean two of the losers right? While the Japanese never did anything quite like the Holocaust, they got up to their own brand of crimes against humanity. Even though the issue has become wrapped up in politics, a lot of East Asia have a perfectly valid reason to bare some grudges against Japan for the poo poo that they did.
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May 7, 2016 23:57
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Elyv posted:Non-historian, but I think there's a few things at play here: It also lacked a clear "that bastard" to fight against. Sure, propagandists would turn Wilhelm into a gorilla and whatnot but at the end of it all the drat thing got started by political machinery as inexorable and automated as the action of a Maxim gun.
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May 8, 2016 00:09
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WW2 was considered "the good war" in public memory because it was one that was clearly pitting theories of government against each other. The Great Depression created a major crisis for liberal democracies and led to alternatives being taken very seriously. While Fascism and Communism existed before that, the financial crises of the 20s and 30s were what made them appear to be valid alternatives for organizing a modern society. The resulting propaganda set the early stages for how the wars would be remembered. This wasn't just a thing in the countries that cast themselves as beating down militant fascism. The war in the East was very much framed in ideological terms by the Germans. Eastern Bolshevism was THE boogyman where they were concerned. edit: the widely publicized crimes of the looser was, of course, the cherry on top. Nothing proves that your war really WAS a noble crusade against inhuman fasicsm like news reels of concentration camps. edit x2: note that most of the general public at that time wouldn't be really well educated about any of the horrible poo poo that the US, Britain, France, etc. had done in their colonial past. No one in London was looking at pictures of Bergen-Belsen and saying "hey, that looks like what we set up for the Boers!" These were shocking things that defied peoples expectations of how civilized nations were supposed to behave, even after the industrial slaughter of WW1. Cyrano4747 fucked around with this message at 00:19 on May 8, 2016 |
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May 8, 2016 00:15
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BurningStone posted:I've heard that WWI is remembered in Eastern Europe, not well, but not as badly as it is in Western. Opinions from anybody from that area? Well, just compare Europe in 1914 with Europe in 1921. Also, as far as I know, WWI gets kind of a bum deal throughout Eastern Europe because it's just not our war. It's seen as "well, we were there, but not for ourselves, and we didn't have much to say, so whatever", it's the conflicts that start after it's over that matter: the Russian Civil War, the Polish-Soviet War, the Finnish Civil War and so on and so forth. Obviously it's different in the Balkans, but in the East the Great War is overshadowed by its immediate aftermath as it is far more relevant to the people here.
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May 8, 2016 00:21
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Tevery Best posted:Well, just compare Europe in 1914 with Europe in 1921. Hungarians are still upset by the Treaty of Trianon, apparently. Or perhaps I just stumbled into a revanchist military history exhibit, not sure which.
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May 8, 2016 00:27
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sullat posted:Hungarians are still upset by the Treaty of Trianon, apparently. Or perhaps I just stumbled into a revanchist military history exhibit, not sure which. I remember an a/v art installation I saw once which had speakers and TVs set up on two sides. On one side was a Hungarian woman and on one side a Romanian, simultaneously reading aloud what their respective school history textbooks said about the treaty. Was pretty interesting.
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May 8, 2016 00:43
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MrMojok posted:Here was my idea for a WWI text-only game a few years back: Somebody actually made this - not sure if it's any good, though.
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May 8, 2016 03:02
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I quite enjoy these, I highly suggest trying out the ones set in a high fantasy Napoleonic Wars as a dragoon officer.
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May 8, 2016 03:18
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Delivery McGee posted:Same reason modern infantry rolls up in APCs/HMMVs/helicopters/etc. and dismounts to fight -- the horses are to get the infantry where they're needed quicker, fighting from the horse serves an entirely different purpose.
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May 8, 2016 07:15
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Tevery Best posted:Well, just compare Europe in 1914 with Europe in 1921. Was there much fighting in Polish areas in WWI?
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May 8, 2016 10:27
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Is there a good book out there about the evolution of cavalry from the Middle Ages to the Early Modern?
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May 8, 2016 11:16
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MrMojok posted:Here was my idea for a WWI text-only game a few years back: This reminded me, I had an idea some time ago for WWI survivor point-and-click adventure. Didn't got made for gameplay reasons and it was based on existing IP so there were copyright issues.
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May 8, 2016 11:20
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WWI in Lithuania: we took is as a chance to throw off Russian yoke and almost got a German prince as our king.
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May 8, 2016 11:23
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JcDent posted:WWI in Lithuania: we took is as a chance to throw off Russian yoke and almost got a German prince as our king. that noise you hear is greeks laughing at you
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May 8, 2016 11:36
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JcDent posted:WWI in Lithuania: we took is as a chance to throw off Russian yoke and almost got a German prince as our king.  how many of us were there
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May 8, 2016 11:36
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Hogge Wild posted:Was there much fighting in Polish areas in WWI? There were some major battles, although it depends on how exactly you'd classify "Polish areas". Going by today's borders, you'd be looking at the major battles of 1914 - Tannenberg and the Great Masurian Lakes - and the Russian offensive into then-Galicia as well as the Gorlice-Tarnów offensive of 1915 which reversed it and essentially threw the Imperial Russian army out of modern Poland's territory. If you go by the 1921 borders (which delineate pretty much the furthest extent of serious Polish population clusters), then the war there continued until 1917, pretty much. Between the fighting, Russian scorched earth policies, and the German occupation, the war was pretty destructive, although less so in some areas than in others. For example, Greater Poland and Silesia were pretty much intact until the 1918 uprisings, while Galicia was ran over twice by 1915. I don't know whether WWI was more or less destructive than the conflicts that came directly after it, however. Also you have to factor in that the Poles did fight in the war on both sides, so there were considerable human losses as well. I've read fragments of memoirs of one who ended up a machine gunner for the German army at Verdun, describing how he operated the machine with one hand while stuffing himself full of chocolate with the other.
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May 8, 2016 11:52
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sullat posted:Hungarians are still upset by the Treaty of Trianon, apparently. Or perhaps I just stumbled into a revanchist military history exhibit, not sure which. The aftermath was really messy for Hungary, what with declaring itself a Soviet Republic. The unimaginative fools couldn't even think of a real flag before everyone jumped on them, just a red cloth was used. Not that Gaddafi could come up with anything more creative, and at least he had four decades instead of four months to innovate...
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May 8, 2016 11:57
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Tevery Best posted:There were some major battles, although it depends on how exactly you'd classify "Polish areas". Going by today's borders, you'd be looking at the major battles of 1914 - Tannenberg and the Great Masurian Lakes - and the Russian offensive into then-Galicia as well as the Gorlice-Tarnów offensive of 1915 which reversed it and essentially threw the Imperial Russian army out of modern Poland's territory. For some reason I didn't think that the Battles of Tannenberg and Masurian Lakes happened in Poland. There were some cool posts earlier itt about the Polish soldiers on both sides. It's quite astonishing how many served in the French Army.
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May 8, 2016 12:13
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Hogge Wild posted:For some reason I didn't think that the Battles of Tannenberg and Masurian Lakes happened in Poland. There were some cool posts earlier itt about the Polish soldiers on both sides. It's quite astonishing how many served in the French Army. Probably because the area wasn't a part of Poland until 1945 and it was mostly majority German until that point. Nowadays it's a very popular tourist destination, good for hiking and kayaking.
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May 8, 2016 13:07
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It sounds like WWI isn't more popular in the East. To be fair to the original guy I heard this from, he was arguing that it was remembered as having made something happen, with many countries created from the remains of Austria-Hungary and the Ottoman Empire, rather than as a pointless death machine.
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May 8, 2016 14:50
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sullat posted:Hungarians are still upset by the Treaty of Trianon, apparently. Or perhaps I just stumbled into a revanchist military history exhibit, not sure which. Hungary IS a revanchist history exhibit. The ruling party has adopted the Putinist agenda of asserting territorial claims by giving Hungarian citizenship to people in pre-Trianon Hungarian borders. They are also demanding that these regions should receive autonomy from their respective governments, and are inciting ethnic conflicts as a means to this end.
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May 8, 2016 15:36
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BurningStone posted:It sounds like WWI isn't more popular in the East. To be fair to the original guy I heard this from, he was arguing that it was remembered as having made something happen, with many countries created from the remains of Austria-Hungary and the Ottoman Empire, rather than as a pointless death machine. WWs aren't some drat popularity contest.
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May 8, 2016 15:49
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steinrokkan posted:Hungary IS a revanchist history exhibit. The ruling party has adopted the Putinist agenda of asserting territorial claims by giving Hungarian citizenship to people in pre-Trianon Hungarian borders. They are also demanding that these regions should receive autonomy from their respective governments, and are inciting ethnic conflicts as a means to this end. We're long overdue for another inter-NATO war. 
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May 8, 2016 16:03
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Hogge Wild posted:WWs aren't some drat popularity contest. My world war can beat your world war up.
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May 8, 2016 16:40
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My favorite wars are the Cod Wars and the Emu War. e: also the Fat Rebellion and the Nag Rebellion.
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May 8, 2016 16:59
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sullat posted:Hungarians are still upset by the Treaty of Trianon, apparently. Or perhaps I just stumbled into a revanchist military history exhibit, not sure which. There's some bad things stirring in Hungary, ofc their rabid nationalism has to poke at regions in Slovakia and Romania where there's still ethnic hungarians living there. On the other side, it's somewhat surprising to hear that there's still the conflicts about magyarization and the problematic division of the monarchy in in cis- and transleithania resounding today, and not just faintly. Some pretty strong emotions still cooking, especially with the ethnicities that were marginalized back then. Things would be more relaxed, if politics in Hungary would be less "interesting".
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May 8, 2016 17:08
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Hogge Wild posted:My favorite wars are the Cod Wars and the Emu War. Both of the Pig Wars are pretty good.
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May 8, 2016 17:19
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How is there not a Jenikins' Ear emote?
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May 8, 2016 18:07
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HEY GAL posted:this thing was very vulnerable to cannon, is my point, but it did own Whoa, where did you get this graphics mod for the original Age of Empires?
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May 8, 2016 19:20
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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hogmartin posted:How is there not a Jenikins' Ear emote? It should be the  emote with an ear in place of the bulldog.
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May 8, 2016 19:28
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Tomn posted:Both of the Pig Wars are pretty good. I'm fond of the Soccer War and the War of the Bucket.
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May 8, 2016 19:40
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Hogge Wild posted:My favorite wars are the Cod Wars and the Emu War. Ah ok, looks like it's called Pork mutiny in English. "The Pork mutiny (Finnish: Läskikapina Swedish: Fläskrevolten) was an incident in Northern Finland in 1922. On February 2 a group of armed Red Guard members crossed the Finnish-Soviet border near Kuolajärvi and Savukoski. They advanced to a logging yard owned by Kemijoki Oy. They arrested the heads of the yard and confiscated the cashbox. The incident derives its name from the fact that the leader of the Red Guardists, Frans Myyryläinen, stood on a crate that had formerly contained pork when he delivered his speech called the 'Declaration of Battle of the Red Guerrilla Battalion of the North'. After the speech, some 300 workers joined the battalion and were armed and given money. The Battalion then made its way back to the border. On its way, it robbed a group of border guards and other workplaces. On February 7, the battalion, by that time about 240 men, crossed the border back to the Soviet Union. Information of the incident was received at Rovaniemi only on February 5, and the battalion managed to slip away before a group of the White Guard arrived." The Nag rebellion doesn't have a Wikipedia article, but maybe I'll write something about it.
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May 8, 2016 19:45
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So when some nation or state declares war over the name of a war do we just pack up and go home?
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May 8, 2016 19:47
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Cythereal posted:I'm fond of the Soccer War and the War of the Bucket. Well, those are p. good, but they had casualties. And I hadn't even realized how many people died in the War of Jenkins' Ear.
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May 8, 2016 19:55
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Hogge Wild posted:Well, those are p. good, but they had casualties. And I hadn't even realized how many people died in the War of Jenkins' Ear. See also: Toyota war.
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May 8, 2016 20:35
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