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Shima Honnou posted:Tbh I almost think Jon's resurrection is leading to some kind of swerve. Coming back to life ain't natural, it's the kind of thing the White Walkers make happen, and the characters I recall being revived in the books always came back shittier than they were in life. If he's really leaving Castle Black, he's basically leaving the whole of Westeros undefended against the coming zombie ice horde. So basically what I'm saying is: what if letting them in is exactly what zombie Jon wants to do? I mean it's either gotta be some kind of ploy or bad writing and I'm not entirely convinced that the writers are that bad that they'd forget the entire thing that the story was structured around since page one of book one. Of course, I could be convinced of that and probably will be eventually. Its a fun theory and I was thinking about a white walker fakeout myself for awhile, but there's so much building him up as Azor Ahai that it seems unlikely at this point. Um, in what way is Jon leaving Castle Black leaving the whole of Westeros undefended? He's not that amazing of a fighter himself. He's still leaving the knight's watch in charge of Castle Black same as if he stayed. Instead he's going to go try to unite the North and convince Tommen or whoever to send troops up north to join the Night's Watch. That's exactly what he needs to do to protect Westeros. There's no way the Watch and even the few wildlings are enough to stop them, and Jon Snow himself adding one more man to fight does basically nothing against an army that size. There's a ton of poo poo writing in the show now but none of that is an issue. GoGoGadgetChris posted:Next week's episode looks boring as poo poo. I'll be amazed if it's anything but an hour of spinning wheels. It looks like Yara is giving Theon poo poo... because she failed to rescue him? That's kinda silly. You'd think she'd feel bad about just running away. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 19:57 on May 9, 2016 |
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May 9, 2016 19:54
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Zaphod42 posted:Um, in what way is Jon leaving Castle Black leaving the whole of Westeros undefended? He's not that amazing of a fighter himself. He's still leaving the knight's watch in charge of Castle Black same as if he stayed. Instead he's going to go try to unite the North and convince Tommen or whoever to send troops up north to join the Night's Watch. That's exactly what he needs to do to protect Westeros. There's no way the Watch and even the few wildlings are enough to stop them, and Jon Snow himself adding one more man to fight does basically nothing against an army that size. Because with Jon and the wildlings gone there's like Edd and 20
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May 9, 2016 20:03
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Jon's next move is to unite the North and reclaim Winterfel, most likely for Sansa. It's a pretty fair assumption that with the North behind her, she'll throw her support behind the Watch. People don't come back worse than before because of the resurrection, they come back worse because they died in a horrible way. Catelyn lives for justice/revenge against the Freys/Lannisters, Jon hangs the traitors who killed him and leaves the Watch because his brothers killed him. Beric isn't a worse person, but he loses a bit of himself with each resurrection so it's not like there are no drawbacks to the process. Narmi fucked around with this message at 20:12 on May 9, 2016 |
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May 9, 2016 20:09
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Shima Honnou posted:Because with Jon and the wildlings gone there's like Edd and 20 Blow the tunnels and call it a day.
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May 9, 2016 20:10
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Didn't he let through a poo poo ton of Wildlings, though? I can't remember how big Mance's army was supposed to be, wasn't it something like 10,000? There's definitely a lot more than the 50 or so that showed up with Edd last episode. Plenty to leave some at Castle Black and still march south with Jon.
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May 9, 2016 20:10
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Narmi posted:People don't come back worse than before because of the resurrection, they come back worse because they died in a horrible way. Catelyn abandons justice for revenge against the Freys/Lannisters, Jon hangs the traitors who killed him and abandons the Watch because his brothers killed him. Part of it is also probably existential dread. For all his talk of honor and making the right decision, Jon got stabbed and killed for it, and all that awaited him was oblivion. Coming back from that, I can see him flipping the bird to the idea of honor and taking a more direct path towards achieving his goals because what's the point?
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May 9, 2016 20:12
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Hobo Clown posted:Didn't he let through a poo poo ton of Wildlings, though? I can't remember how big Mance's army was supposed to be, wasn't it something like 10,000? There's definitely a lot more than the 50 or so that showed up with Edd last episode. Plenty to leave some at Castle Black and still march south with Jon. An unknown large sum of that army is wights now.
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May 9, 2016 20:13
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Hobo Clown posted:Didn't he let through a poo poo ton of Wildlings, though? I can't remember how big Mance's army was supposed to be, wasn't it something like 10,000? There's definitely a lot more than the 50 or so that showed up with Edd last episode. Plenty to leave some at Castle Black and still march south with Jon. More than 50 but remember most of Mance's army told Jon to get hosed and then got slaughtered by White Walkers and got added to their army instead. So its basically like 109,000 vs 1,000
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May 9, 2016 20:13
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IIRC he saved 3000 Wildlings form the massacre at Hardhome.
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May 9, 2016 20:25
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TommyGun85 posted:its not "better" but it serves its purpose just fine. All of the key points are spoken almost verbatim without the need for having a longer conversation on the show that it needs to be and without having two extra speaking roles of random people who havent been introduced before, bear no significance and are going to die anything. There's so little information given in the dialogue that if a viewer doesn't know what happened at the Trident or who Rhaegar is, they have no chance. They may as well not even watch. The book dialogue works if you just remember who Ned is.
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May 9, 2016 20:25
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Super Ninja Fish posted:There's so little information given in the dialogue that if a viewer doesn't know what happened at the Trident or who Rhaegar is, they have no chance. They may as well not even watch. The book dialogue works if you just remember who Ned is. the book is one scene. I iamgine the show will draw out this event over like 5 scenes with more and more information given. The climax will obviously be Ned (and Bran) (and the viewer) discovering that Lyanna is in the tower, that she wasnt kidnapped and that Jon was her baby. Im sure they will shoehorn in Rhaegars motivations at one point as well. This is how tv adaptations work.
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May 9, 2016 20:32
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TommyGun85 posted:Im sure they will shoehorn in Rhaegars motivations at one point as well. Rhaegar Targaryen: "It's just tits and dragons."
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May 9, 2016 20:38
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TommyGun85 posted:the book is one scene. I iamgine the show will draw out this event over like 5 scenes with more and more information given. The climax will obviously be Ned (and Bran) (and the viewer) discovering that Lyanna is in the tower, that she wasnt kidnapped and that Jon was her baby. In the meantime, they just watched a guy that doesn't really look or act like Ned fight unknowns for several minutes. Why not say they were the Kingsguard? Why not say Jaime just killed their king so the viewers can piece together what's going on? They didn't even say the Mad King was their king. Just that the Mad King is dead.
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May 9, 2016 21:00
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I don't really think Jon's execution of the conspirators is a particularly good indicator of a more ruthless character - he executed Janos Slynt pretty cold-bloodedly for disobeying a direct order, and you have to assume he'd have done the same to one of his men who'd conspired to murder another even before he died and came back.
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May 9, 2016 21:06
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GaussianCopula posted:I just don't get why they had to change the brilliant dialogue between the Kingsguard and Ned. It's almost poetic the way George wrote it
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May 9, 2016 21:07
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whole lot of sperglords itt. Sorry your decades long expectations for a trashy fantasy show didn't pan out as hoped. I'm liking the Baelor the Blessed line they're playing out with Tommen. Good rhyming with the books lore about Baelor imprisoning his sisters / Tommon imprisoning his wife and mother. Also lol at Rickon not being some cannibal warlord of a unicorn island, like some of you posted years ago
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May 9, 2016 21:10
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GaussianCopula posted:I just don't get why they had to change the brilliant dialogue between the Kingsguard and Ned. It's almost poetic the way George wrote it and they completely butchered it. yeah, i prefer the version we got on the show
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May 9, 2016 21:19
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QuoProQuid posted:yeah, i prefer the version we got on the show The version we got on the show was bad though.
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May 9, 2016 21:23
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My favorite part of the ToJ sword fight was that one guy who had a shield and then decided to throw his shield away and dies.
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May 9, 2016 21:24
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I just don't understand how the fight scenes got so mediocre when in seasons 1-4 they were solid. The Hound + Arya tavern brawl is cinema quality, both the dialogue beforehand and the actual fight. The tower of joy looked like it belonged on some primetime mid 2000s NBC show that's getting cancelled after its first season. There's something going on here behind the scenes besides simply running out of material from George, the quality of the show in many aspects has taken a nosedive.
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May 9, 2016 21:30
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Did this episode have the first montage in the show's history?
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May 9, 2016 21:32
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onemillionzombies posted:I just don't understand how the fight scenes got so mediocre when in seasons 1-4 they were solid. The Hound + Arya tavern brawl is cinema quality, both the dialogue beforehand and the actual fight. The tower of joy looked like it belonged on some primetime mid 2000s NBC show that's getting cancelled after its first season. There's something going on here behind the scenes besides simply running out of material from George, the quality of the show in many aspects has taken a nosedive. lol no it didn't, the fight scene last night was perfectly fine. if you want to sperg out about ~tactical realism~ fine, but no one else cares outside of this thread
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May 9, 2016 21:34
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Super Ninja Fish posted:The version we got on the show was bad though. what does that say about the books
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May 9, 2016 21:35
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this_is_hard posted:lol no it didn't, the fight scene last night was perfectly fine. if you want to sperg out about ~tactical realism~ fine, but no one else cares outside of this thread Yes, I greatly desire tactical realism in a show with dragons and ice knights.
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May 9, 2016 21:38
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That fight scene was loving garbage, and D&D should feel shame for producing it.
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May 9, 2016 21:41
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I'm not really sure what the right way to choreograph that scene would have been. Most of the semi-realistic fight choreography in films that stands out involves one-on-one duels (e.g. The Duellists) or bloody battlefield brawls where exchanges are short and people are dropping every few seconds. This is a scenario with 3:1 odds of trained/competent soldiers vs. peerless soldiers. I can't think of many similar scenarios in films or shows that were that great.
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May 9, 2016 21:49
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QuoProQuid posted:what does that say about the books That the books are better.
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May 9, 2016 21:54
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how come the marsh redneck was dressed nice.
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May 9, 2016 21:54
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WESTEROS WEEKLY NEWS GAZETTE HEADLINES Discussions in Meereen. Unoffical leaders talk about how to spend an afternoon! Discussions in King's Landing. Royalty talk faith and political stuff! Discussions and pathos at Castle Black Blind girl beaten in Bravos. Like last week. PAGE 3 GIRL Uhmmm... None this week, sorry. OBITUARIES AND WEEKLY DEATH COUNT Heroic deaths: 0 Tragic deaths: 0 Gratifying deaths of horrible evil bastards: 0 Ritual sacrifices to the Gods: 0 Common soldies fallen in battle: 0 Hangings of criminals: 4 ON THIS DAY IN HISTORY Many years ago, a young Ned Stark fought someone and some people died in combat! Huzzah! EDITORIAL Should we ask ourselves: Were things a lot more exciting in the past?
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May 9, 2016 21:57
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rope kid posted:I'm not really sure what the right way to choreograph that scene would have been. Most of the semi-realistic fight choreography in films that stands out involves one-on-one duels (e.g. The Duellists) or bloody battlefield brawls where exchanges are short and people are dropping every few seconds. If he had had Dawn, he could have just cut right through all the red shirts and their feeble attempts to block his strikes with their loser swords on his way to Ned, who is the only one capable of deflecting Dawn because he has Ice. Would've been way better, and it would have recalled the scene where Jon blocks the Other's weapon with Longclaw. They could have also had the second Kingsguard not go down instantly and have him draw some aggro, kill some folks, and split up the action. Or, god forbid, they could have had the third Kingsguard who was meant to be there.
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May 9, 2016 21:57
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rope kid posted:I'm not really sure what the right way to choreograph that scene would have been. Most of the semi-realistic fight choreography in films that stands out involves one-on-one duels (e.g. The Duellists) or bloody battlefield brawls where exchanges are short and people are dropping every few seconds. Its not that hard, you just show badass 1:3 guy killing lots of Stark's red-shirt men while Stark is busy killing a single red-shirt targaryen, then you show a 1-on-1 with the two guys who are left. Which is exactly what they did. They had the right overall idea, its just the actual fighting choreography itself looked silly and that's because the guy was fighting with two longswords and doing his best to constantly spin them around all fancy like. There's no way to make that look anything but kinda silly and forced. The extras were obviously trying to hit his swords at specific times in order to kinda justify his spinny action. The one good shot is when Dayne kills the one guy by scissoring off his head with his two swords, that was cool. Oh and one quick shot where a Targ redshirt puts his sword right through the middle of a Stark man, that was nice and brutal and physical. Everything else was silly and would have looked better if they'd just given him a single sword and had him beat the crap out of everybody. In It For The Tank posted:If he had had Dawn, he could have just cut right through all the red shirts and their feeble attempts to block his strikes with their loser swords on his way to Ned, who is the only one capable of deflecting Dawn because he has Ice. Would've been way better, and it would have recalled the scene where Jon blocks the Other's weapon with Longclaw. Exactly. Or just like Brienne using Oathkeeper to cut right through those guys' swords. That poo poo looks cool.
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May 9, 2016 21:58
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Zaphod42 posted:Its not that hard, you just show badass 1:3 guy killing lots of Stark's red-shirt men while Stark is busy killing a single red-shirt targaryen, then you show a 1-on-1 with the two guys who are left. were there Targ redshirts? I was high as gently caress but I thought the ToH scene had Ned and like 6 men vs. 2 Kingsguard, I assumed the other guy was Gerrard Hightower?
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May 9, 2016 22:02
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It was Ned and his bros vs 2 Kingsguard.
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May 9, 2016 22:03
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The book scene isn't realistic, it's meant to be evocative and is the dialogue is written in an elevated register. Characters "in the present" don't speak or think in that register except on very formal occasions (and occasionally Brienne in her internal monologue). The show dialogue didn't come across well for me since it tries to mix that with the common register that people actually talk in, trying to have it both ways but not quite hitting either. Putting all the faithfulness-to-material issues aside I thought the fight itself could have been better if you could visually differentiate Howland Reed from the rest of the group. Even knowing the source I had no idea what happened to him during that fight until he suddenly popped up at the end.
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May 9, 2016 22:05
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Pron on VHS posted:were there Targ redshirts? I was high as gently caress but I thought the ToH scene had Ned and like 6 men vs. 2 Kingsguard, I assumed the other guy was Gerrard Hightower? Yeah it was Hightower I was referring to, I forgot his name. There was supposed to be a 3rd but they cut him out or moved him inside the tower.
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May 9, 2016 22:08
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Promethium posted:The book scene isn't realistic, it's meant to be evocative and is the dialogue is written in an elevated register. Characters "in the present" don't speak or think in that register except on very formal occasions (and occasionally Brienne in her internal monologue). The show dialogue didn't come across well for me since it tries to mix that with the common register that people actually talk in, trying to have it both ways but not quite hitting either. he shoulda looked like a swamp redneck.
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May 9, 2016 22:16
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It was a well-choreographed fight over all. Most of the time, dual wielding looks cheesy and ridiculous and this was one of the better stabs (!!) at it that I've seen. If you're going to have someone florentine longswords, there are some sacrifices that need to be made in order to pass it off as a tenable fighting style. A 'realistic' fight would've looked a lot different and probably would've been less fun to watch. The man to Arthur's right was supposed to be Ser Gerold Hightower, right? It's Oswell Whent that was missing.
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May 9, 2016 22:19
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onemillionzombies posted:I just don't understand how the fight scenes got so mediocre when in seasons 1-4 they were solid. The Hound + Arya tavern brawl is cinema quality, both the dialogue beforehand and the actual fight. The tower of joy looked like it belonged on some primetime mid 2000s NBC show that's getting cancelled after its first season. There's something going on here behind the scenes besides simply running out of material from George, the quality of the show in many aspects has taken a nosedive. It's weird because I know the budget has only gone up since the beginning but everything on the show since Season 4 looks cheaper. The Kingsguard outfits look cheaper (compare Jaime's outfit from Season 1 to now), there are less extras running around so every place looks completely desolate and empty. Why are there only like 5 people in the North? Why, when Tormund says Jon is looked on as a God to the wildlings, there are like, 20 wildlings meandering around? Meanwhile, back in Season 2, which was shot when the show was just starting to become a phenomenon, the Battle of the Blackwater looked huge as gently caress. What the gently caress happened?
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May 9, 2016 22:20
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Mike N Eich posted:It's weird because I know the budget has only gone up since the beginning but everything on the show since Season 4 looks cheaper. The Kingsguard outfits look cheaper (compare Jaime's outfit from Season 1 to now), there are less extras running around so every place looks completely desolate and empty. Why are there only like 5 people in the North? Why, when Tormund says Jon is looked on as a God to the wildlings, there are like, 20 wildlings meandering around? Meanwhile, back in Season 2, which was shot when the show was just starting to become a phenomenon, the Battle of the Blackwater looked huge as gently caress. Catering budget for the mountain.
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May 9, 2016 22:24
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Maybe cast salaries have gone up? Also when is Ian McShane showing up, he is definitely the other Greyjoy brother right?
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May 9, 2016 22:25
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