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Afleck is now one of the producers on Justice League. DC really does just have "It's just about Batman" in its films don't they?
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May 10, 2016 01:02
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I'll caveat all of this by saying I really don't like DC, especially the way DC writes and treats their female superheroes. But that all being said I've always felt like Kara Zor-El comes across as a worse, knockoff version of Superman. Even the Supergirl tv show, what little of it I saw before giving up, felt like the show constantly having to remind the audience that superman exists and is her cousin and boy oh boy does she want to be superman. It's also the way they function in their universes. Supergirl has a legacy to live up to, so it often comes across as everything she does has an asterisk next to it. In contrast She-Hulk has a legacy she's trying to escape from, since Hulk is at best a mixed bag when it comes to helping/hurting. Sure, he might be the most powerful character in the universe, but even Bruce banner doesn't want to be the Hulk. Everyone wants to be Superman.
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May 10, 2016 01:03
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muscles like this? posted:It's kind of weird how terrible January Jones was in First Class because she's been good in other things. name one other thing
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May 10, 2016 01:03
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Anger Management!
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May 10, 2016 01:05
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Sp1r0_Agn3W posted:name one other thing Mad men?
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May 10, 2016 01:05
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January Jones was the worst part of Mad Men, both on and offscreen.
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May 10, 2016 01:05
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Rurea posted:Mad men? i would argue she was terrible in that like everything else shes been in and this was only hidden by the quality everything around her
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May 10, 2016 01:06
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Sp1r0_Agn3W posted:name one other thing Last Man on Earth.
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May 10, 2016 01:08
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muscles like this? posted:Last Man on Earth. never seen it but every single thing ive seen her in would argue otherwise
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May 10, 2016 01:11
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Toxxupation posted:Supergirl has a legacy to live up to, so it often comes across as everything she does has an asterisk next to it. In contrast She-Hulk has a legacy she's trying to escape from, since Hulk is at best a mixed bag when it comes to helping/hurting. Sure, he might be the most powerful character in the universe, but even Bruce banner doesn't want to be the Hulk. Everyone wants to be Superman. This is true, but the point is that the legacy exists at all, that both characters are partially defined by the relationship to the male originals.
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May 10, 2016 01:16
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Travis343 posted:Well First Class was "the good one" at a time when the other recent X-movies were The Last Stand and the solo Wolverine movies. Days of Future Past is "the good one" now. I dunno about that one. Days of future past was better than X-3 but I didn't like how Magneto turned back into an unbelievable idiot. It also suffered badly from Executive Decisions like making Mystique suddenly the most important person ever. And the JFK thing, ugh. It felt like it was trying to piggyback off of First Class's cuban missile crisis thing but they didn't give it enough thought to make it work. First Class had a lot of crappy material with the kids, but I think the Magneto/Shaw plotline is the strongest thread in the series. Kinda makes me wish the movie had remained an 'Origins: Magneto' movie.
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May 10, 2016 01:17
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The thing about Supergirl and DC in general you have to remember is that legacy is a bigger deal over there. At least until someone comes along that really really liked the inferior versions of the characters that have been gone for years and brings them back for some reason when the new versions are working just as good as ever.
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May 10, 2016 01:24
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Sure, but I would argue that Jennifer's association with the Hulk ties in with the running theme of her character, which is Fighting Sexism. Her trying not to be the Hulk means that she's not defined as lesser the same way Kara trying to out-Superman Superman means that all of her accomplishments are defined by that yardstick. I dunno, this is likely my DC hatred bubbling up but I really just don't like how virtually every single female superhero is written in the DC pantheon. I think like, Oracle is one of the few female DC supes (besides WW, obviously) that has a legacy around her that's not troubling (not to mention how most DC female supes are currently written) and even then Oracle has the whole problem of her origins. Again it all comes back to how the Supergirl tv show can't go two minutes without reminding us she's SUPERMAN's cousin.
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May 10, 2016 01:25
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Toxxupation posted:I dunno, this is likely my DC hatred bubbling up but I really just don't like how virtually every single female superhero is written in the DC pantheon. I think like, Oracle is one of the few female DC supes (besides WW, obviously) that has a legacy around her that's not troubling (not to mention how most DC female supes are currently written) and even then Oracle has the whole problem of her origins. Again it all comes back to how the Supergirl tv show can't go two minutes without reminding us she's SUPERMAN's cousin. Just wait until the Killing Joke animated movie comes out and makes it explicit what the Joker did to Babs after shooting her. Because, edgy.
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May 10, 2016 01:27
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They should pull a really baller move and just have a gigantic powerful female lawyer that is not in any way related to the hulk.
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May 10, 2016 01:27
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Toxxupation posted:Sure, but I would argue that Jennifer's association with the Hulk ties in with the running theme of her character, which is Fighting Sexism. Her trying not to be the Hulk means that she's not defined as lesser the same way Kara trying to out-Superman Superman means that all of her accomplishments are defined by that yardstick. Well I'm pretty sure Oracle is no longer a thing so there's that.
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May 10, 2016 01:31
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She-Hulk is not this divorced character who doesn't want to be part of the Hulk. She frequently appears as part of the Hulk's storylines, is partially defined by caring about and being worried about her cousin, and is part of the 'extended Hulk family" to the point we got a Red She-Hulk. If there's some big Hulk crossover event she ends up as part of it and a wikipedia-style rundown of her history is going to include more Hulk than Not Hulk. This doesn't make her a bad character but she absolutely falls into the same niche as Supergirl or Batgirl or whoever where they can be good characters on their own but they're unfortunately tied to and defined by (up to and including their names) the male superhero they are derivative of. This doesn't make them bad but it does mean they are effectively the Girl Version of a hero, and unfortunately for She-Hulk it is also fair to point out that she is not identical to the Hulk because drawing a hot green woman in exploding clothing is a thing people wanted to do. Edit: There are even writers who have tried to tie her personality/character/ect to just being an alternate version of The Hulk only with different traits emphasized which is pretty hosed up in its own way but has been a part of her solo books even when the Hulk isn't around. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 01:40 on May 10, 2016 |
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May 10, 2016 01:36
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X-O posted:Well I'm pretty sure Oracle is no longer a thing so there's that. Oh don't worry, the lovely origin still happened, she just got better real fast.
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May 10, 2016 01:39
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Weird. I just looked up January Jones on IMDB to see what else she has been in and she really only has a major role in Mad Men, First Class, and The Last Man on Earth. How did she become such a "thing?" I guess she just rode Mad Men all the way, but how did she end up opposite of Jon Ham when her biggest acting credits prior to Mad Men were "Extra in Anger Management" and "Extra in American Wedding." I think becoming a cultural icon on the strength of one TV show and then doing a terrible job in movies afterwards needs to be called "January Jonesing" or "Pam from the Office Syndrome."
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May 10, 2016 01:49
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So is the Supergirl Tv series as horrible as it looks? I was going to give it a shot, but then saw a TV spot for the first episode that actually took the time to have Ally Mcbeal explain to the audience that the title "SuperGIRL isn't sexist, I'm a girl and I'm a successful business woman! You're sexist for thinking it's sexist!" And I decided nope, not for me.
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May 10, 2016 01:54
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Well, she is the bad guy at that point.
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May 10, 2016 01:55
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Mazzagatti2Hotty posted:So is the Supergirl Tv series as horrible as it looks? I was going to give it a shot, but then saw a TV spot for the first episode that actually took the time to have Ally Mcbeal explain to the audience that the title "SuperGIRL isn't sexist, I'm a girl and I'm a successful business woman! You're sexist for thinking it's sexist!" And I decided nope, not for me. It has a couple interesting moments, but unless you are really desperate for something to fill about 10 hours of your life, I would pick something different.
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May 10, 2016 01:55
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January Jones is old-timey Hollywood beautiful, like what Hollywood considered beauty up until like the early seventies. She has acting skills and an ego to match those standards, but the fact that she looks so different is a huge boost to her casting. Sort of the inverse of Jon Hamm, who everyone considered unemployable because he looked like he stumbled out of a Humphrey Bogart film and was thus ugly. Well, until MM when he got turned into a sex symbol, but yeah. JJ looks Old Hollywood, and that's a benefit for women. Not so much for an Old Hollywood looking man.
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May 10, 2016 01:57
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Mazzagatti2Hotty posted:So is the Supergirl Tv series as horrible as it looks? I was going to give it a shot, but then saw a TV spot for the first episode that actually took the time to have Ally Mcbeal explain to the audience that the title "SuperGIRL isn't sexist, I'm a girl and I'm a successful business woman! You're sexist for thinking it's sexist!" And I decided nope, not for me. e: Okay, I mean on network TV, not Netflix. It's certainly no Daredevil, obvs. BrianWilly fucked around with this message at 02:13 on May 10, 2016 |
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May 10, 2016 02:07
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twistedmentat posted:Afleck is now one of the producers on Justice League. DC really does just have "It's just about Batman" in its films don't they? I think DC's movie division is in panic mode after BVS ended up divisive at best and one of the few things everyone's agreed was good in the movie was Batfleck.
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May 10, 2016 02:13
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I mean, it doesn't necessarily mean that Affleck has creative input. He could be a literal financier, have a stake in the studio, gave up naming rights to bolster the credits line in return for a percentage of profits, or restructured his contract so that he gets EP bylines on future comic book movie projects. His creative input, if he has any, could be as vague as "I think you guys should do <x thing they were gonna do anyways>". It really depends on how much creative control the studio has over JL and by extension Snyder, and how much creative control Affleck has over the studio. This all assumes that Affleck events wants creative control over JL in the first place, mind. I don't think an EP credit actually loving means anything until Affleck is more open about how closely he intends to hew his solo Batman project to JL. NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 02:23 on May 10, 2016 |
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May 10, 2016 02:21
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It means "Affleck has made some really good movies when he's behind the scenes so please think he's doing to do the same here" and that's pretty much it.
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May 10, 2016 02:26
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I've never been a big Hulk reader but I've been reading the last dozen or so years of She-Hulk and whatever the state of affairs at the time of her creation and early run, she is not tied to Banner or the Hulk at all. She's certainly the thematic inverse of Hulk; she retains her intellect and can shift between Shulkie and Jennifer but chooses not to because She-Hulk is who she is. Being a Hulk is not a curse for her, it's the truest expression of who she is. Her series tend to be about the fear society has for an independent, powerful (in all meanings), sexually liberated, professional woman and tonally her books are more like workplace comedies. She's not defined by her connection to the Hulk anymore and stands as a unique character (who needs to be the MCU in some fashion dammit.)
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May 10, 2016 02:29
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rantmo posted:I've never been a big Hulk reader but I've been reading the last dozen or so years of She-Hulk and whatever the state of affairs at the time of her creation and early run, she is not tied to Banner or the Hulk at all. She's certainly the thematic inverse of Hulk; she retains her intellect and can shift between Shulkie and Jennifer but chooses not to because She-Hulk is who she is. Being a Hulk is not a curse for her, it's the truest expression of who she is. Her series tend to be about the fear society has for an independent, powerful (in all meanings), sexually liberated, professional woman and tonally her books are more like workplace comedies. She's not defined by her connection to the Hulk anymore and stands as a unique character (who needs to be the MCU in some fashion dammit.) So the constant appearances in Hulk comics are for no reason at all then? Pictured: A character who has nothing to do with the Hulk:  I really don't understand why there is even an argument that a character named She-Hulk is perhaps connected to a character named The Hulk and if there is any big plotline involving Hulk it probably will end up dragging She-Hulk in because she is considered a part of the Hulk Family. This is not an objective thing. She can have his own excellent book (and does) but that doesn't make her not connected to The Hulk any more than Nightwing isn't connected to Batman. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 02:41 on May 10, 2016 |
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May 10, 2016 02:34
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She-Hulk was in every one of the first four issues of the new Hulk title. And that Hulk isn't even her cousin.
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May 10, 2016 02:39
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Nobody's saying she's not related to the Hulk, arguing that she's defined by or subservient to the Hulk despite basically every single one of her stories that have been published in this millennium being about how she's not the hulk (and not "not the hulk", literally not the hulk), frequently not even mentioning the hulk in any context (including the entirety of her most recent run) means you're being disingenuous at best and aggressively arguing a strawman at worst. I mean you tried to defend Goyer's frankly horrific comments about the character so you know whatever.
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May 10, 2016 02:47
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ImpAtom posted:So the constant appearances in Hulk comics are for no reason at all then? Like I said, I'm not really a Hulk reader I was talking about She-Hulk in her own title. Frankly, both sides of the "argument" have strong cases; she might well have started out derivative but has become her own character in a very meaningful way. Also, no one is saying she's unconnected to Hulk, that's ludicrous and why no one has made that claim. Connection and derivation are distinct concepts, especially when discussing comics.
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May 10, 2016 02:48
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She-Hulk would work perfectly well as a workplace comedy or as a legal drama even without her ties to the Hulk being mentioned, although those ties certainly exist. (I kind of like the idea of a fairly serious MCU legal drama series starring Jennifer Walters that mostly only hints at the idea that she's She-Hulk and constantly teases the audience with the idea that maybe this time she's actually going to Hulk out and punch opposing counsel.) Also, since Deadpool proved the MCU can go R-rated, I don't see why they couldn't go the other way around and have a G-rated Squirrel Girl movie aimed at kids.
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May 10, 2016 02:52
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Derivative doesn't mean she's defined by or subservient to Hulk. It means she's a character based on the Hulk template. Or to put it as bluntly as possible not an original character. And that she is not.Rand Brittain posted:Also, since Deadpool proved the MCU can go R-rated, I don't see why they couldn't go the other way around and have a G-rated Squirrel Girl movie aimed at kids. Deadpool did not prove that because Deadpool is not in the MCU.
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May 10, 2016 02:52
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Also you can't compare Marvel Character of the 00s, Deadpool to Character Most People, Even Those Into Comics, Would Have No Idea Who She Is Squirrel Girl
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May 10, 2016 02:56
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Endless Mike posted:Spinning hurricanranas rule. Also that sick leg headlock takedown/DDT combo. Just saw Civil War, and I one of the many things I loved was the fighting styles shown (although some of it had a bit too much shaky-cam).
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May 10, 2016 02:56
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Cythereal posted:Paltrow herself has said she's iffy about playing Pepper again - she doesn't want Pepper to be relegated to just a supporting love interest and wants a more active, action-oriented role for her if Paltrow is to come back. In the absence of an Iron Man 4 movie, I can't see that happening. At the end of IM3 did Tony completely removed the extremis virus from Pepper making her a normal human again? Or did Tony stabilize it so the Pepper did not have to worry about "regulating" but still have all of the extremis super powers? I think allowing Pepper to keep her extremis powers would be a good way to have her show up in a future movie as an actual hero and not just a love interest.
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May 10, 2016 02:58
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PunkBoy posted:Also that sick leg headlock takedown/DDT combo. Just saw Civil War, and I one of the many things I loved was the fighting styles shown (although some of it had a bit too much shaky-cam). Bucky didn't power bomb her through the table when he had the chance = bad movie.
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May 10, 2016 03:00
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rantmo posted:Also, no one is saying she's unconnected to Hulk, that's ludicrous and why no one has made that claim. Er, no, actually, that's exactly what's been claimed. Again, what derivative means here is the dictionary definition: Derived from. The concept of She-Hulk was derived from the Hulk, with the high concept of BUT A GIRL THIS TIME. (And read those old Stan Lee She-Hulk issues, it couldn't be more blatant). Now John Byrne and later creators moved her beyond that and found a niche that is excellent and grew the character beyond that initial template, but just because a spin-off evolves doesn't make it not a spin-off. Frasier was derived from Cheers. That doesn't make Frasier less successful or enjoyable a sitcom, it's just a fact that the former doesn't happen without the latter. MacheteZombie posted:Bucky didn't power bomb her through the table when he had the chance = bad movie. Bucky's a pro, you save the big spots for the finish.
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May 10, 2016 03:00
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I mean She-Hulk might be the best consistently and independently portrayed female character Marvel has. She's been around with a solo book forever. I personally would love to see a Netflix series that's half or even mostly a law procedural with her. The logistics of that from a rights and special effects perspective makes it seem impossible at the moment but still it could be a great series. That doesn't mean she's not a derivative character though and they're gun shy about the actual Hulk right now nevermind what most people would consider just a female version no matter how wrong that descriptor is.
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May 10, 2016 03:01
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