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All crane operators, much like truck drivers, suffer from one or more mental illnesses.
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May 11, 2016 13:42
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Hot Karl Marx posted:lol shut the gently caress up. When poo poo goes wrong, who dies? The operator, so yeah, i think its in our best interests to know what is going on. If you were smart you would know the people pushing operators to cut costs and use short cuts are the management cause we get paid by the hour and don't care how long things take. Stop acting like your 10x as smart as the the people operatering the equipment cause you guys don't have to to maintenance or repairs either and that poo poo is designed by a retard most of the time. lol you are the person these laws were made to protect the rest of us from.
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May 11, 2016 13:45
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TTerrible posted:lol you are the person these laws were made to protect the rest of us from.
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May 11, 2016 13:46
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I didn’t know Bud Holland was a crane operator.
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May 11, 2016 13:48
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Hot Karl Marx posted:lol shut the gently caress up. When poo poo goes wrong, who dies? The operator, so yeah, i think its in our best interests to know what is going on. If you were smart you would know the people pushing operators to cut costs and use short cuts are the management cause we get paid by the hour and don't care how long things take. Stop acting like your 10x as smart as the the people operatering the equipment cause you guys don't have to to maintenance or repairs either and that poo poo is designed by a retard most of the time. In what situation would knowing how far above the maximum load rating the ideal failure point was be useful?
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May 11, 2016 14:08
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Hubis posted:In what situation would knowing how far above the maximum load rating the ideal failure point was be useful? Investigating the collapse of Hot Karl Marx’s crane.
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May 11, 2016 14:10
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FIRST TIME posted:Also, how the gently caress is that just as safe as being on the floor? The distance to the ground is farther and the step ladder is sitting on a conveyor belt. Glass Joe posted:Hey now, we don't know the belt wasn't locked out/tagged out and the individual is properly harnessed, just in a way the photo doesn't show! You get enough slack in LOTO to hang yourself with, so in this case a completely applicable (but still asking for trouble) tag out is the guy can say he can watch any knucklehead try to turn it on. Also not familiar with supermarket belts, is it the sort of thing you can just unplug from a mains receptacle? Unplugging and having line of sight to the plug is an unarguably sufficient tag out even if its missing a dozen administrative steps that a mature industrial LOTO program would have.
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May 11, 2016 14:58
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Hot Karl Marx posted:lol shut the gently caress up. When poo poo goes wrong, who dies? The operator, so yeah, i think its in our best interests to know what is going on. If you were smart you would know the people pushing operators to cut costs and use short cuts are the management cause we get paid by the hour and don't care how long things take. Stop acting like your 10x as smart as the the people operatering the equipment cause you guys don't have to to maintenance or repairs either and that poo poo is designed by a retard most of the time. osha.txt Hubis posted:In what situation would knowing how far above the maximum load rating the ideal failure point was be useful? When operatering the equipment.
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May 11, 2016 15:26
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When I worked retail, the employees were trained in lock out/tag out procedures. Most of them never had to deal with it unless they worked in the back room but they still had to pass a test about it every 6 months or so. Each register tends to be a mess of wires and cords underneath the belt and register. You weren't allowed to just go rooting around, unplugging things unless you were maintenance or something. That genius in the picture probably wouldn't even unplug the right thing, I bet.
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May 11, 2016 15:26
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zedprime posted:He's probably above the widely practiced in construction >5ft height requirement for fall protection, but construction can also justify buying yoyos and using cheap rip stitch arresters below 8-10ft is just safety theater. OSHA requirements are for >6ft which he seems to be under. Poking around led me to this: https://www.osha.gov/newsrelease/reg2-20150910.html quote:In the case of the amputation, OSHA found that Wegmans failed to turn off and lock out the conveyor's power source, train employees in how to do this, and ensure the conveyor's moving parts were protected against contact. It doesn't say what type of conveyor it was though, so I'm guessing it was whatever is used on the loading dock/stockroom. My guess is the ones by the cash register have as much lockout capacity as your average toaster.
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May 11, 2016 15:28
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Glass Joe posted:It doesn't say what type of conveyor it was though, so I'm guessing it was whatever is used on the loading dock/stockroom. Unloading conveyors are actually usually just composed of wheel bearings running across metal pegs on a frame that can unfold/turn. They're purely mechanical, so there's nothing to turn off - my bet is that it actually was a register conveyor
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May 11, 2016 15:33
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Glass Joe posted:Poking around led me to this: https://www.osha.gov/newsrelease/reg2-20150910.html I was asking if it had the lockout capacity of the average toaster. Because you LOTO a toaster by unplugging it and keeping LOS with the plug  But given the stories I hear out of retail I will concede there was probably something not going by best practices in that picture, but its hard to tell without being there to pick the sitaution apart.
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May 11, 2016 15:35
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Platystemon posted:Investigating the collapse of Hot Karl Marx’s
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May 11, 2016 15:39
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zedprime posted:He's probably above the widely practiced in construction >5ft height requirement for fall protection, but construction can also justify buying yoyos and using cheap rip stitch arresters below 8-10ft is just safety theater. OSHA requirements are for >6ft which he seems to be under. are OSHA requirements really that low? in Canada we only have to care about fall arrest and railings above 8 feet. you're right about the safety theatre though, it's pathetic. in my experience the only time anyone cares about real safety is when the ministry is coming by. then even the foremen are slowing down work telling guys to tie off and build railings. I guess when there's real consequences instead of warnings and piddly fines from the company's hollow safety officer is when people care. never mind that falls above 8 feet are the number one cause of death for construction workers for forever years running.
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May 11, 2016 15:45
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This is from my workplace. The building is 100 years old, the kitchen sink installation is from the early 90s. The fusebox and stuff was already there when someone decided it was a good idea to cram in stuff for making coffee and heating lunches in the closet/electric room.
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May 11, 2016 15:58
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I wonder if someone losing their tether during a space walk and consequently fatally drifting off would be listed under the stats as a fatality from a fall of over 8 feet
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May 11, 2016 16:47
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Hot Karl Marx posted:lol shut the gently caress up. When poo poo goes wrong, who dies? The operator, so yeah, i think its in our best interests to know what is going on. If you were smart you would know the people pushing operators to cut costs and use short cuts are the management cause we get paid by the hour and don't care how long things take. Stop acting like your 10x as smart as the the people operatering the equipment cause you guys don't have to to maintenance or repairs either and that poo poo is designed by a retard most of the time. yes it's the engineer who designed the equipment who is retarded, not the operator who decides to exceed the safe limit
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May 11, 2016 17:01
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nozh posted:are OSHA requirements really that low? in Canada we only have to care about fall arrest and railings above 8 feet. you're right about the safety theatre though, it's pathetic. in my experience the only time anyone cares about real safety is when the ministry is coming by. then even the foremen are slowing down work telling guys to tie off and build railings. I guess when there's real consequences instead of warnings and piddly fines from the company's hollow safety officer is when people care. never mind that falls above 8 feet are the number one cause of death for construction workers for forever years running. MSHA is even stricter. Last time I checked, we're required to tie off any time there is a risk of falling. I've seen people tie off when they're only going to be 2 feet off the ground in a manlift.
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May 11, 2016 17:05
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Sammus posted:MSHA is even stricter. Last time I checked, we're required to tie off any time there is a risk of falling. I've seen people tie off when they're only going to be 2 feet off the ground in a manlift. MSHA training week always told us the story of The Man Who Fell Off The Bottom Step of A Ladder and Died of His Injuries (also, he wasn't wearing a hard hat). I've never seen an actual report though. Also, after repeated (unrelated) violations, MSHA came down on the site's rear end and we weren't even allowed to climb up the ladders on the rail cars we filled and tie off up there, so we had to ride a goddamn Genie lift to get on top. On the plus side, I got certified on the Genie lift.  Also, gently caress manlifts in general. Got stuck between floors for 90 minutes one time until the electrical shop "got around to" resetting the thing. And double gently caress all the coworkers who come by and comment "lol you're stuck on the manlift.  " Though it did beat taking nine flights of stairs.
Glass Joe fucked around with this message at 17:22 on May 11, 2016 |
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May 11, 2016 17:20
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Glass Joe posted:It doesn't say what type of conveyor it was though, so I'm guessing it was whatever is used on the loading dock/stockroom. My guess is the ones by the cash register have as much lockout capacity as your average toaster. The cash register conveyors can pull about 10 12-packs of soda across them. I could see them being powerful enough to nip off a finger tip, since that's a light snack for commercial machinery. Metal or hard plastics give no fucks about your soft fleshy bits.
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May 11, 2016 17:43
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FIRST TIME posted:When I worked retail, the employees were trained in lock out/tag out procedures. Most of them never had to deal with it unless they worked in the back room but they still had to pass a test about it every 6 months or so. Yeah, when I worked at Home Depot, I'd regularly have to tag and lock out the lifts, baler, compacter, etc. But there were only about 7 of us in the store that really knew how.
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May 11, 2016 17:44
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axolotl farmer posted:This is from my workplace. The building is 100 years old, the kitchen sink installation is from the early 90s. The fusebox and stuff was already there when someone decided it was a good idea to cram in stuff for making coffee and heating lunches in the closet/electric room. I could be wrong, but from what I can see in that picture, that's all telecom gear, not a fusebox/electrical.
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May 11, 2016 19:20
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zedprime posted:OSHA requirements are for >6ft which he seems to be under. nozh posted:are OSHA requirements really that low? in Canada we only have to care about fall arrest and railings above 8 feet.  Sammus posted:I've seen people tie off when they're only going to be 2 feet off the ground in a manlift. mom and dad fight a lot fucked around with this message at 19:53 on May 11, 2016 |
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May 11, 2016 19:30
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VendaGoat posted:Toothpaste has a warning on it. Jerry Cotton posted:Actually the problem isn't the asshat who ate an entire tube of paste, it's the legal system that is designed to enable predatory litigation. 
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May 11, 2016 19:41
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Sentient Data posted:But the whole point of the margin of error/safety is that it's impossible for operators to always know everything that's going on. You don't know every single detail of the maintenance that was actually done (even if there's a perfect paper trail), you don't know if there were manufacturing defects in any of the parts, you don't objectively know exactly how strained parts of the equipment have been, you might not even know if your scales are accurate in the first place if they haven't been calibrated recently. The whole point of a maximum is "if you go past this, it's not safe", not "if you go past this everything will break immediately" One major threat is shock loads. If a load free-falls or gets stuck on the ground and "pops" up (like trying to remove something that froze itself to the surroundings, or a cast concrete item stuck in the mold), it can pull down with as much as twice the static weight of the load. Shock loading should obviously always be avoided, but operating at or near the true maximum capacity of the crane (the "go past this point and you'll tip over" point) greatly increases the risk from things like shock loading. If the load chart says not to exceed 10,000 lbs at your radius but is actually capable of handling up to 12,000 lbs before risking tipping or breaking from the stress, would you rather a shock load reach 11,500 lbs or 13,000 lbs in effective force pulling down on the boom? As you said, the whole point of the margin is that operators can't know every single factor coming into play. Shock loading is one of them, but there's also risks like a sling that's rated for 500% the list capacity being worn until it's only capable of 300% the list capacity before breaking. The sling probably looks fine and stands up to a simple test, but do you really want to try and intentionally exceed the listed capacity because "These things are rated to be stronger than they really say"? The best comparison is redlining an engine. Most of the time, your engine is operating at speeds that won't cause unnecessary stress or damage to its own components. You have rev limiters that keep the car from reaching unsafe levels of power. You can operate the engine at its maximum capability, but there's a good drat reason your car generally doesn't do that. Overclocking your computer is basically the same principle. Crane capacity is the same way. You can lift loads all the way to the maximum the manufacturer designed it for, but you're flirting with disaster if you try because you're now operating on the cusp of an accident instead of far away from one. Just like you shouldn't run your engine in the red or overclock your computer non-stop, you shouldn't be operating at or near the actual maximum capability of your crane.
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May 11, 2016 19:45
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chitoryu12 posted:Crane capacity is the same way. You can lift loads all the way to the maximum the manufacturer designed it for, but you're flirting with disaster if you try because you're now operating on the cusp of an accident instead of far away from one. Just like you shouldn't run your engine in the red or overclock your computer non-stop, you shouldn't be operating at or near the actual maximum capability of your crane. I think you are totally forgetting that we're not taking about operating a crane. We're talking about people who know 1000% more than you and are properly operatering the crane. Those people are clearly able to exceed your so called "maximum capability" because they know their crane inside and out and have been operatering it for a long time.
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May 11, 2016 19:57
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nozh posted:falls above 8 feet are the number one cause of death for construction workers for forever years running. I am confused by this statement. Surely there are more deaths from falls above 7 feet?
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May 11, 2016 20:05
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Can we please stop trying to pile more owns on the dude who was sufficiently owned at least half a page ago? It's getting boring. Let's instead appreciate the fact that it is funny that ladders this tiny are being made:
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May 11, 2016 20:08
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Hot Karl Marx is actually a perfect demonstration of the kind of operator you want to keep from knowing the "true" maximum capacity of a crane. The kind who thinks that they know better than the engineers developing their load charts because "I had 1000 hours this year and I've been operating on my dad's site getting paid under the table since I was 16!"
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May 11, 2016 20:09
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Glass Joe posted:MSHA training week always told us the story of The Man Who Fell Off The Bottom Step of A Ladder and Died of His Injuries (also, he wasn't wearing a hard hat). I've never seen an actual report though. Also, after repeated (unrelated) violations, MSHA came down on the site's rear end and we weren't even allowed to climb up the ladders on the rail cars we filled and tie off up there, so we had to ride a goddamn Genie lift to get on top. On the plus side, I got certified on the Genie lift. What kind of Genie lift? When I got certified, "don't loving use a boom lift as an elevator" was pretty much the main thing I took home from the experience besides all the videos of people driving them in to power lines/over bumps/etc. Particularly the guy who drove over a septic tank and got flung in to the ground when the tank collapsed. Given the choice, I think I'd risk the ladder. Mithaldu posted:Can we please stop trying to pile more owns on the dude who was sufficiently owned at least half a page ago? It's getting boring. A little step ladder like that would be dead useful for me right now. We're up to the penthouse suites and still using the same three foot tie-off straps even though the ceilings are way higher, putting them completely out of reach unless you feel like lugging an A-frame around or playing Jenga with scrap wood.
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May 11, 2016 20:25
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Glass Joe posted:MSHA training week always told us the story of The Man Who Fell Off The Bottom Step of A Ladder and Died of His Injuries (also, he wasn't wearing a hard hat). I've never seen an actual report though. Also, after repeated (unrelated) violations, MSHA came down on the site's rear end and we weren't even allowed to climb up the ladders on the rail cars we filled and tie off up there, so we had to ride a goddamn Genie lift to get on top. On the plus side, I got certified on the Genie lift. Ahahaha wow what the gently caress? Did everyone on your site gently caress up 3 points of contact repeatedly or something?
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May 11, 2016 20:28
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Reminds me of a german army thing. We weren't even allowed to use simple ladders without first having gone through training on how to use a ladder. Not complicated ones either, just the simple fold+chain ones.
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May 11, 2016 20:43
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For a more content-related post, I've been working on mast climbers a lot lately. Googling "mast climber accident" was probably a bad idea. Apparently five people were on that thing when it went, and three of them hit the ground. Too much weight on that cantilevered section at the end, I guess. Apparently it had been drooping for four weeks at that point and the president of the company directed his workers to just keep nailing more and more wood to it to "level it off" every time, without consulting the load chart because it didn't exist.  The part that's really blowing my mind is that their fall protection apparently consisted of "don't fall off." Pretty sure harnesses and lifelines existed back in 1995.
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May 11, 2016 20:52
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Nerses IV posted:What kind of Genie lift? When I got certified, "don't loving use a boom lift as an elevator" was pretty much the main thing I took home from the experience besides all the videos of people driving them in to power lines/over bumps/etc. Particularly the guy who drove over a septic tank and got flung in to the ground when the tank collapsed. Given the choice, I think I'd risk the ladder. Something like one of these  to get up on top of one of these  which was already next to the loading dock that gave easy access to the ladders. The tie off point was some thick cables running above the midline of the cars. In all honesty, it was less safe using the lift, but we had to because MSHA said someone could possibly fall off a ladder. That section did a rather important, lucrative job so we pretty much permanently commandeered the lift and only drove it up and down the dock. Fortunately, nobody drove it off the dock while I was working there. Sammus posted:Ahahaha wow what the gently caress? Did everyone on your site gently caress up 3 points of contact repeatedly or something? MSHA dude got mad at repeated violations in other areas and wrote us up for any possible violation he could think of, basically to be a dick. edit: now that I think about it, this may have simply been Management's attempt to mollify MSHA without having to shell out for a more advanced fall protection system. Glass Joe fucked around with this message at 20:58 on May 11, 2016 |
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May 11, 2016 20:55
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The West Texas fertilizer plant explosion has been determined to be a criminal act by the BATF and the Texas State Fire Marshall's office... they basically said it was a deliberate act that cause the fire and eventual explosion. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36271136
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May 11, 2016 21:02
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Glass Joe posted:Something like one of these That's loving insane. Even those 60 footers weigh something like 20,000 pounds. I've seen a guy very nearly get flyswatted driving one beneath a building because he was halfway through when it decided to sink a wheel in to the mud. loving around with heavy equipment completely unnecessarily just to prove a point or whatever is super hosed up.
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May 11, 2016 21:13
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`Nemesis posted:The West Texas fertilizer plant explosion has been determined to be a criminal act by the BATF and the Texas State Fire Marshall's office... they basically said it was a deliberate act that cause the fire and eventual explosion. 
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May 11, 2016 21:46
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Clearly someone needs to invent crane-frame parachutes
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May 11, 2016 21:53
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Glass Joe posted:
I'm just guessing, but MSHA probably said your guys had to tie off as they went up and down the ladder (which can be a huge loving hassle). That move probably led to a lot of bitching from the guys who had to do it, and so your boss just said 'gently caress it get a lift and tie off as you go up then again when you get up top!' MSHA can be a loving nightmare when they're out to get you, they WILL find something. I suppose it's for the best, something something something safety, but it chaps my rear end that those guys are funded entirely by the fines we pay.
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May 11, 2016 21:54
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| # ? May 14, 2024 12:23 |
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gonadic io posted:I am confused by this statement. Surely there are more deaths from falls above 7 feet? Construction was a clear specification for that number, which excludes household falls and accidents where >7 feet falls have significantly higher numbers, hth Sammus posted:I'm just guessing, but MSHA probably said your guys had to tie off as they went up and down the ladder (which can be a huge loving hassle). That move probably led to a lot of bitching from the guys who had to do it, and so your boss just said 'gently caress it get a lift and tie off as you go up then again when you get up top!' As much as it chaps your rear end, they make enough to operate on safety violations, and only nickel-and-dime a site when it's an annoying repeat offender/as a punitive measure, not because of income quotas. Basically, there's so much drat corner-cutting and dangerous shortcuts as industry SOP that it pays(them) to have dedicated safety police. Sucks that they do it, but it sucks that they're needed as well 
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May 12, 2016 00:00
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