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Twitch posted:Terraria straight up has two sets of armor slots for this reason, and Diablo 3 lets you change the cosmetic appearance of any equipment to anything else you've collected for trivial amounts of in-game money. Guild Wars 2 does this too, but it requires limited transmogrification items unless you want to spend real money. Also the ability to disable helmet slots. I spent all this time in character creator making the prettiest character but I wont get to enjoy it because they're wearing a burlap sack the entire game.
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May 11, 2016 04:55
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Helmets should offer a great armour bonus with the fact that you don't see your character's custom built face in cutscenes as a trade off imo.
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May 11, 2016 12:29
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Leal posted:Also the ability to disable helmet slots. I spent all this time in character creator making the prettiest character but I wont get to enjoy it because they're wearing a burlap sack the entire game. Destiny does this good, mostly. There's an option to turn helmets on or off and in certain cutscenes where your character talks, the helmet is automatically off.
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May 11, 2016 13:44
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Twitch posted:Diablo 3 lets you change the cosmetic appearance of any equipment to anything else you've collected for trivial amounts of in-game money. My favourite thing in Diablo 3 is playing a fully levelled barbarian kitted out in legendaries that look like starter gear and a baby's-first-two-hander weapon, like a logging axe. It feels so much more satisfying to go up against Diablo as some driven farmer caked in demon blood than as the Chosen One of Time And Destiny. Something else dragging down nearly every RPG- the "twist" that the player character isn't human, and that their abilities are because of special blood or special breeding. gently caress you, game, all that ever means is that I didn't earn poo poo. Goddamn it.
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May 11, 2016 14:03
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City of Heroes was sort of like that in that there was no armor. You always were looking at the character you designed, and as you went up in level you got more costume slots so you could hot-swap them rather than completely re-do what you're wearing.
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May 11, 2016 15:53
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FFX's Chocobo Training minigames are the worst poo poo. Control terribly, ruled by the RNG, and you basically spend nine out of ten runs through the final race staring at it waiting to be over because you got hosed in the first seven seconds. And hooray! You need to do this basically flawlessly to make one of the ultimate weapons not totally useless! 
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May 11, 2016 17:13
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Dewgy posted:FFX's Chocobo Training minigames are the worst poo poo. Control terribly, ruled by the RNG, and you basically spend nine out of ten runs through the final race staring at it waiting to be over because you got hosed in the first seven seconds. That minigame is still better than Thunder Plains
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May 11, 2016 17:44
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Dewgy posted:FFX's Chocobo Training minigames are the worst poo poo. Control terribly, ruled by the RNG, and you basically spend nine out of ten runs through the final race staring at it waiting to be over because you got hosed in the first seven seconds. The PC port is coming out tomorrow, they'd better have achievements for these just for maximum 
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May 11, 2016 17:46
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I may be a long-term PC gamer, but I was too dense to realise that Ys: Oath in Felghana's graphics menu is outside the game in a separate exe, so I spent 95% of the game thinking it's supposed to look this crappy.
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May 11, 2016 19:56
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DrBouvenstein posted:City of Heroes was sort of like that in that there was no armor. You always were looking at the character you designed, and as you went up in level you got more costume slots so you could hot-swap them rather than completely re-do what you're wearing. Secret World is the same way. There's no armor except for some of the clothing options are armor. Personally I always wore what pubbies hated the most or something equally gaudy. My go to for the longest time was purple cowboy boots, a red speedo, no shirt, pixie wings, and some sort of animal head usually a unicorn that had a spark horn. I crashed a rp wedding dressed like that and it was wonderful.
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May 11, 2016 20:00
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Guy Mann posted:The PC port is coming out tomorrow, they'd better have achievements for these just for maximum There is. And now I never have to do it again. 
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May 11, 2016 20:57
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Len posted:Secret World is the same way. There's no armor except for some of the clothing options are armor. Personally I always wore what pubbies hated the most or something equally gaudy. My go to for the longest time was purple cowboy boots, a red speedo, no shirt, pixie wings, and some sort of animal head usually a unicorn that had a spark horn. I did that in GTA San Andreas. I hated the whiny rapper who worked at the burger place, OG Loc, so when his party was thrown I deliberately wore the ugliest outfit available - Skintight shirt and leggings that were like an awful full body vomit rainbow, and a rainbow clown wig. That whole cutscene I was just like "HEY OG LOC! I'M RUINING YOUR PARTY! LOOK AT ME!"
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May 11, 2016 21:02
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Somfin posted:My favourite thing in Diablo 3 is playing a fully levelled barbarian kitted out in legendaries that look like starter gear and a baby's-first-two-hander weapon, like a logging axe. It feels so much more satisfying to go up against Diablo as some driven farmer caked in demon blood than as the Chosen One of Time And Destiny. Hey no. You earned it, you just had an easier time of it compared to everyone else. It's not like you tried to cast magic for the first time and summoned a meteor. You had some elf DNA in you so you had a leg up on that compared to most other people.
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May 11, 2016 21:40
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BioEnchanted posted:I did that in GTA San Andreas. I hated the whiny rapper who worked at the burger place, OG Loc, so when his party was thrown I deliberately wore the ugliest outfit available - Skintight shirt and leggings that were like an awful full body vomit rainbow, and a rainbow clown wig. That whole cutscene I was just like "HEY OG LOC! I'M RUINING YOUR PARTY! LOOK AT ME!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7NSulBOMNk
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May 11, 2016 21:52
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Somfin posted:My favourite thing in Diablo 3 is playing a fully levelled barbarian kitted out in legendaries that look like starter gear and a baby's-first-two-hander weapon, like a logging axe. It feels so much more satisfying to go up against Diablo as some driven farmer caked in demon blood than as the Chosen One of Time And Destiny. I so something similar with my Crusader: I transmog my stuff into the standard black/white armor set (can't remember the name) that the Standard Crusader look has. Somfin posted:Something else dragging down nearly every RPG- the "twist" that the player character isn't human, and that their abilities are because of special blood or special breeding. gently caress you, game, all that ever means is that I didn't earn poo poo. Goddamn it. You earned it on the back of your superhuman/special privilege. Check it. (  )
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May 11, 2016 21:58
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Inspector Gesicht posted:I may be a long-term PC gamer, but I was too dense to realise that Ys: Oath in Felghana's graphics menu is outside the game in a separate exe, so I spent 95% of the game thinking it's supposed to look this crappy. gently caress, really? I was getting pretty annoyed that this relatively new game looked like total dogshit.
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May 11, 2016 22:19
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Whomever decided that troop transports in Stellaris should not only be literal paper ships but also completely impossible to protect without absurd levels of micromanaging is a loving sadomasochist. Oh you won the offensive war in 2 seconds flat because your fleet is 3 times the size? Sorry, your troop transports decideded to hike (my god this game controls on the galaxy screen) and died 2 seconds into the battle. Have fun spending the next 5 years building new assault troops, slowly merging them from all across the map and having them sniped by the AI because they had no escort. Oh wait, no they get sniped even if you have an escort because they enter the battle right along with the other ships. Why is this even a thing??
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May 11, 2016 22:37
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Xoidanor posted:Whomever decided that troop transports in Stellaris should not only be literal paper ships but also completely impossible to protect without absurd levels of micromanaging is a loving sadomasochist. Oh you won the offensive war in 2 seconds flat because your fleet is 3 times the size? Sorry, your troop transports decideded to hike (my god this game controls on the galaxy screen) and died 2 seconds into the battle. Have fun spending the next 5 years building new assault troops, slowly merging them from all across the map and having them sniped by the AI because they had no escort. Oh wait, no they get sniped even if you have an escort because they enter the battle right along with the other ships. Weak troops transports in general. OK so get this, we have this thing right where we move people who need very much alive to achieve our goal right? So lets put the least amount of protection possible on this object, also strip any form of weaponry. What, why not put our foot soldiers in a more sturdy vehicle like our big rear end capital ships? I don't follow It'd be like taking the M113, removing the machine gun and replacing the aluminum alloy armor with wrought iron. Or pillows.
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May 11, 2016 23:00
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RareAcumen posted:Hey no. You earned it, you just had an easier time of it compared to everyone else. It's not like you tried to cast magic for the first time and summoned a meteor. You had some elf DNA in you so you had a leg up on that compared to most other people. In D3 you're a direct descendant of angel-demon hybrids, and an NPC explicitly states that's the only reason why you can win fights against strong monsters. gently caress genetic superiority bullshit in power fantasy games, I don't want to be strong because of my more interesting parents. It lowers the stakes because suddenly you were always just mathematically better than most of your enemies and allies.
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May 11, 2016 23:06
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I'm guessing if you look at the numbers that's mechanically true, that you're better at everything than almost anything you fight. Maybe someone thought they needed to explain that, but i think you're right, most players would actually not like to have that brought to their attention.
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May 11, 2016 23:27
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Somfin posted:In D3 you're a direct descendant of angel-demon hybrids, and an NPC explicitly states that's the only reason why you can win fights against strong monsters. gently caress genetic superiority bullshit in power fantasy games, I don't want to be strong because of my more interesting parents. It lowers the stakes because suddenly you were always just mathematically better than most of your enemies and allies. swamp waste posted:I'm guessing if you look at the numbers that's mechanically true, that you're better at everything than almost anything you fight. Maybe someone thought they needed to explain that, but i think you're right, most players would actually not like to have that brought to their attention. Oh, I gotcha now. You just wanna be better than everyone else by virtue of being the protagonist and not because someone played the most hardcore game of fantasy eugenics to breed the perfect
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May 11, 2016 23:31
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Xoidanor posted:Whomever decided that troop transports in Stellaris should not only be literal paper ships but also completely impossible to protect without absurd levels of micromanaging is a loving sadomasochist. Oh you won the offensive war in 2 seconds flat because your fleet is 3 times the size? Sorry, your troop transports decideded to hike (my god this game controls on the galaxy screen) and died 2 seconds into the battle. Have fun spending the next 5 years building new assault troops, slowly merging them from all across the map and having them sniped by the AI because they had no escort. Oh wait, no they get sniped even if you have an escort because they enter the battle right along with the other ships. If you lose a battle does your fleet have to retreat a ridiculously far distance away? I always hated that in Crusader Kings 2. You lose a skirmish in Somerset and find your army has hosed off all the way over to Poland sometimes. Also why is it so hard to get Satan to bang your wife in CK2? I've done all I can but nothing seems to tempt him.
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May 11, 2016 23:44
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RareAcumen posted:Oh, I gotcha now. You just wanna be better than everyone else by virtue of being the protagonist and not because someone played the most hardcore game of fantasy eugenics to breed the perfect Yeah. I'll agree on hating "you were born special" done in that fashion. Game is a lot less fun when the developer says "you were destined to win from the start." Of course I was going to win, but make it because I was awesome, not because I'm super-human. The protagonist of D1 didn't need to be special to jam a gem in his head.
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May 11, 2016 23:45
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Avenging_Mikon posted:Yeah. I'll agree on hating "you were born special" done in that fashion. Game is a lot less fun when the developer says "you were destined to win from the start." Of course I was going to win, but make it because I was awesome, not because I'm super-human. The protagonist of D1 didn't need to be special to jam a gem in his head. Exactly. There doesn't need to be an in-universe explanation of your power. Spec Ops: The Line went one better: there's no explanation for why you are as good as you are, and enemy radio chatter makes it clear that, because there is no explanation, you are terrifying. Acknowledging the player's power and explaining it are different things. Reaction is always more satisfying than explanation.
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May 12, 2016 00:05
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Avenging_Mikon posted:Yeah. I'll agree on hating "you were born special" done in that fashion. Game is a lot less fun when the developer says "you were destined to win from the start." Of course I was going to win, but make it because I was awesome, not because I'm super-human. The protagonist of D1 didn't need to be special to jam a gem in his head. Counterpoint: Baldur's Gate through Throne of Baal (with the development patch, not vanilla).
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May 12, 2016 01:59
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It's chill when chosen one stuff is inserted into settings where it makes no sense at all, like the psychic woman in Fallout 4 who tells you you have a special destiny
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May 12, 2016 02:06
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2house2fly posted:It's chill when chosen one stuff is inserted into settings where it makes no sense at all, like the psychic woman in Fallout 4 who tells you you have a special destiny Being fallout 4 drags fallout 4 down a whole deal.
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May 12, 2016 02:14
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I always liked when Dark Souls set you up as the prophecized hero of legend, only for you to find out within literal seconds that the prophecy is factually incorrect and pointlessly vague. Every enemy you fight in the Undead Burg believed they were the one, too. Of course, you wind up actually fulfilling it, but not because you're special. You're just more persistent than everyone else.
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May 12, 2016 02:17
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Tomb Raider reboot was good about the whole reaction thing too. And I'm sure there's a lot more relatively recent games like that too hopefully you guys post about those now
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May 12, 2016 02:35
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Cleretic posted:I always liked when Dark Souls set you up as the prophecized hero of legend, only for you to find out within literal seconds that the prophecy is factually incorrect and pointlessly vague. Every enemy you fight in the Undead Burg believed they were the one, too. And then the basic premise in 3 is you gathering the lords of cinder, who are actually all people who did the Dark Souls 1 Link the Flames ending. So not only was every undead the Chosen Undead in DS1, even if you win, you aren't the only one. Some dude with no legs did it, what makes you so special?
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May 12, 2016 03:01
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thecluckmeme posted:And then the basic premise in 3 is you gathering the lords of cinder, who are actually all people who did the Dark Souls 1 Link the Flames ending. So not only was every undead the Chosen Undead in DS1, even if you win, you aren't the only one. Some dude with no legs did it, what makes you so special? that dude owns. "i may be small, but i will die a colossus" or however he says it. 2house2fly posted:It's chill when chosen one stuff is inserted into settings where it makes no sense at all, like the psychic woman in Fallout 4 who tells you you have a special destiny gimme this chosen prophecy stuff in an animal crossing-ish life sim.
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May 12, 2016 03:06
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You do have superpowers in FEAR, but enemies totally lose their poo poo once you take out enough of their squads, and that's really the important part.
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May 12, 2016 03:07
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2house2fly posted:It's chill when chosen one stuff is inserted into settings where it makes no sense at all, like the psychic woman in Fallout 4 who tells you you have a special destiny Fallout 2 you were literally the chosen one so it's not a new idea.
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May 12, 2016 03:20
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There's a level in one of the higher numbered Ace Combat games where your radar is basically completely covered in enemy signatures, but when they find out it's your squad half of them turn and join you.
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May 12, 2016 03:39
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Xoidanor posted:Whomever decided that troop transports in Stellaris should not only be literal paper ships but also completely impossible to protect without absurd levels of micromanaging is a loving sadomasochist. Oh you won the offensive war in 2 seconds flat because your fleet is 3 times the size? Sorry, your troop transports decideded to hike (my god this game controls on the galaxy screen) and died 2 seconds into the battle. Have fun spending the next 5 years building new assault troops, slowly merging them from all across the map and having them sniped by the AI because they had no escort. Oh wait, no they get sniped even if you have an escort because they enter the battle right along with the other ships. Land them on a planet near the frontlines, only bring them in after the battle's done and you're bombarding fools. I've only played with wormholes so I don't know how reliable that is with other drive types though. At one point an invading ai fleet decided to split itself into its constituent ships. It looked really messy, but more importantly I'd get 'hostile ships detected''hostile ships detected''hostile ships detected' 20 times whenever they jumped. You also get the same message when harmless enemy construction/science ships enter your space, and if you click the notification to look the game zooms to system level instead of staying on whichever you're on. I got a notification a planet was going to be hit by an asteroid, so I had to send my fleet to blow it up. Except I clicked through the notification too fast to read the system name properly, then when I zoomed back to galaxy map to see where it actually was it defocussed. Had to wait 6 months until it impacted and reload an austosave to actually blow the thing up.
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May 12, 2016 04:18
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So I've been playing Payday 2 again with a friend of mine and I can't help but notice how Overkill punished people for playing the game in a particular way back during the beta. The grind initially in PD2 was pretty ridiculous as was getting gun attachments so people mostly did 2 heists over and over so they had them down to a science, the first one was Ukraine job which involves stealing a tiara, done fast enough you could finish that heist in like 2 minutes and get a card which had a random chance of giving you attachments or masks, so naturally peopled farmed it a lot to unlock stuff, the heist was Framing Frames, a 3 day heist where you stole a bunch of paintings, sold them then used the cameras hidden in the paintings to rob some senator as well as frame him, it had the highest exp and money pay-out at the time. Now Ukraine job will always have a titan safe(cannot be picked or blown open) and Framing Frames is an absolute chore to do, beyond doing it for the clear heists in X difficulty masks, there's little reason to bother with it anymore, it got me thinking on how some developers alter content in a way to make it so people don't bother with it anymore and it makes no sense to me. Guild Wars 2 removed the once a day gold reward for doing various dungeon paths, they outright said they wanted people not to do dungeons anymore largely so they would do the raid instead, this didn't work as the raid is much harder than any content GW2 has ever had, they where eventually forced to offer a compromise with a repeatable achievement that offers similar rewards as before, but it still means nobody is going to bother with the ultra hard paths. Destiny did similar things with its nightfall, when the taken king update come out they altered the rewards given and removed the 2xp buff, reason given and I wish I was joking, is that people felt they needed to do the nightfall, like as soon as the reset hit, first thing their entire playerbase if they where able was to do the nightfall then do other stuff, which made sense if you where an avid Destiny player you'd want that 2xp buff all week, either way it led people doing them less and less to the point where Bungie actually said hey don't bother with the nightfalls till we unfuck the rewards, they did but the rewards are still kind of poo poo, hell I personally did the nightfall every single time during year 1, during year 2 I've done it maybe 4 times. I mean I'm not a developer but I don't understand why if people like and enjoy a piece of content in your game, you decide to gently caress with it and do everything in your power short of removing it, or outright punishing players for figuring how to do something quickly.
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May 12, 2016 06:24
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Alteisen posted:I mean I'm not a developer but I don't understand why if people like and enjoy a piece of content in your game, you decide to gently caress with it and do everything in your power short of removing it, or outright punishing players for figuring how to do something quickly. Starbound_development.txt [For those not familiar, it's 'Terraria in Space'] Literally every fun thing in the game has been either removed or put behind obnoxious gates (quests/gear checks). Farming used to be alright, now you have to manually water the plants multiple times for them to grow. Skills and equipment are nerfed so that they can be upgraded later (the 'upgrade' patch never comes, so your Techs are junked). You used to be able to teleport from your ship to a planet surface instantly, they added a 10-second mega-man-beaming-down interstitial screen. It takes a full minute to warp between planets intentionally (planet loading is ~seconds, tops) to make the game 'seem larger'. But the biggest offender is probably the first: Sand Mining. Starbound has a neat sand physics, so if you set it off right you get a cool cave-in with sand flowing everwhere and opening new caves to explore/mine. As a bonus, all the ore in the sand pops out for easy grabs, which is great because mining is a slowass slog, so there's like a triple bonus here. Patched right out, sand-ores just vanish so you're punished for triggering the sandslides.
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May 12, 2016 06:39
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Alteisen posted:Destiny did similar things with its nightfall, when the taken king update come out they altered the rewards given and removed the 2xp buff, reason given and I wish I was joking, is that people felt they needed to do the nightfall, like as soon as the reset hit, first thing their entire playerbase if they where able was to do the nightfall then do other stuff, which made sense if you where an avid Destiny player you'd want that 2xp buff all week, either way it led people doing them less and less to the point where Bungie actually said hey don't bother with the nightfalls till we unfuck the rewards, they did but the rewards are still kind of poo poo, hell I personally did the nightfall every single time during year 1, during year 2 I've done it maybe 4 times. Alteisen posted:Guild Wars 2 removed the once a day gold reward for doing various dungeon paths, they outright said they wanted people not to do dungeons anymore largely so they would do the raid instead, this didn't work as the raid is much harder than any content GW2 has ever had, they where eventually forced to offer a compromise with a repeatable achievement that offers similar rewards as before, but it still means nobody is going to bother with the ultra hard paths
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May 12, 2016 06:43
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Alteisen posted:I mean I'm not a developer but I don't understand why if people like and enjoy a piece of content in your game, you decide to gently caress with it and do everything in your power short of removing it, or outright punishing players for figuring how to do something quickly. It sounds to me like it's not 'punishing certain playstyles', and more 'rebalancing inordinate rewards'. Sure, it seems nice to get a good reward for five minutes of work, but what that means is that people will focus on being able to do that really well, at the expense of more engaging but perhaps less rewarding content. And that is to people's detriment in online games, because then you're at a disadvantage if you don't want to do that. The Secret World had a really painful version of that for a while early on. The only ways to get the highest-powered gear was either PvP, or Nightmare-level dungeons. PvP was a crapshoot if you weren't in a dominant faction, and even then wasn't really well-implemented, so the most viable option for most everyone was the dungeons... Except only a few were ever run with any frequency. So people got REALLY GOOD at those dungeons... at the detriment of their actual game skills. These dungeons demanded certain weapons... only they didn't really, people tunning them just refused to take people who weren't nuilt to their exact standard, even though many of them didn't know why those builds were standard for those dungeons. Didn't matter that a pistol-user would be better for dealing with this boss' debuff, because shotgun-users were preferred for meaningless reasons. And if you didn't want to be part of all that... well too bad, you were never gonna get good purple gear. Mercifully, TSW changed that later by having all the endgame activities give the same currency, so whatver you were doing would be rewarding. Those shotgunning cargo-culters started disappearing now that they were no longer kings of the only way to gear up.
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May 12, 2016 06:47
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See I get the re-balancing portion, I'm cool with that, I am just confused when a company doesn't do it and leaves the content as is. The Framing Frames update was like the very first major patch done to Payday 2 which took it out of its beta phase but the heist was never re-visited and the game's been constantly updated, stealth was altered making it better and more viable, many more heists where introduced as well and frames never got a re-touch, like even if you could do it still quietly and get everything, the pay-off wouldn't be worth the risk for a multi day heist that has so many mechanics places that just utterly gently caress you. Meanwhile I can stealth a bank on deathwish and get good exp and a massive money for 20 minutes of work, it just feels weird, I feel a multi day heist should have higher rewards to give people more incentive to do them, hell Overkill outright introduced a farmable heist in Hoxton breakout, even on normal it is the highest paying and highest exp mission in the entire game so if you just wanna level or get money there's little reason to do anything else which again, confuses me, you punish people and outright make a heist pointless but introduce another that's even better with less risk.
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May 12, 2016 07:22
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