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Endman posted:Poland missing its time in the sun is one of the biggest tragedies of Europe.
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May 11, 2016 06:23
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Nebakenezzer posted:Yeah, Nazi ideology actually forbade it. Germany might be the only country that didn't extensively use (German) women in the workforce in World War 2. That's a slight oversimplification because there were plenty of women working in the agricultural sector. But that was somehow OK because Germans were all genetically-destined to be smallholding farmers because of what Tacitus wrote about ancient Germans or somesuch bullshit according to Nazi mythologizing. HEY GAL posted:poland was legit as hell during the early modern period, the gently caress are you talking about Winged hussars bitches.
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May 11, 2016 06:42
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:Winged hussars bitches. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Trzciana
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May 11, 2016 06:53
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HEY GAL posted:the parts of the 30yw that weren't in Germany do not get enough love, read this:  Those Hussars must have kicked arse to beat over four times their number.
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May 11, 2016 08:08
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Alekanderu posted:The invasion of Norway was itself a pretty big gamble on the part of the Germans and one that quite possibly could have ended in disaster for them if they had been less lucky. It didn't end up particularly well for them even as-is. Having one of your shiny new cruisers knocked off by 50 year old guns that your own country made and land-based torpedoes of all things, and as a result letting the legitimate government escape capture is a bit embarrassing, really.
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May 11, 2016 10:35
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feedmegin posted:It didn't end up particularly well for them even as-is. Having one of your shiny new cruisers knocked off by 50 year old guns that your own country made and land-based torpedoes of all things, and as a result letting the legitimate government escape capture is a bit embarrassing, really. This makes me wonder... How many times have land based torpedoes been successful? There can't have been a huge number of times that they had a chance to be used and were successful.
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May 11, 2016 10:49
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razak posted:This makes me wonder... How many times have land based torpedoes been successful? There can't have been a huge number of times that they had a chance to be used and were successful. AFAIK this is the one time in history. Also the largest ship ever sunk by shore-based defences at all.
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May 11, 2016 11:33
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Nebakenezzer posted:Really? drat, I have to read that book. Yeah, it's really great. Luckily my GF is doing a PhD so I can use her to get expensive military history books through the university library, I think it's quite pricey otherwise, but debunks a lot of nonsense about the origins of WWII from an economic standpoint. Also, while there are myths about the impact of Nazi ideology on the German war economy (like 'no women in the factory'), ideology definitely did play into the decisions made. Perhaps the biggest one that struck me while reading the book (particularly as I am more interested in WWI than WWII) is that the Nazis were absolutely determined to not have Germany go through the starvation inflicted by the British blockade in the First World War. Whether this was because of promises made to the German people or because they wanted to avoid a repeat of the socialist revolts in 1918 i'm not sure, but it was definitely there. There was also the issue that food was preferentially sent to civilian populations over labourers, in particular indentured foreign labour. This was bad enough in things like factories, where Eastern European labourers would pass out at their machines, not the best thing for productivity. It was much worse in mining, where there is a direct correlation between calories consumed by workers and materials mined. German mining bosses were desperate for labor and got it through labourers, but the Nazi party refused to give them anything like a reasonable ration for the hard physical labour they were doing. Everytime the mining managers pointed out that the poor yields were due to lovely rations the response was "They are Slavs, just work them harder!" That went about as well as you could expect. Solaris 2.0 posted:Actually I have a question. Most of us i this thread know in pretty good detail about the Nazi plan for Eastern Europe due to General Plan Ost. What was the German Empire's plan for Eastern Europe after WWI? Like, let's say the managed to win or enter into a peace treaty with the allies after the Brent-Litovsk treaty. What then? A bunch of states ruled by German princes? What of Russia? I can't imagine the German Empire would allow the Communists to rule for very long. This lecture by the same Adam Tooze is a good overview of the German plans for Eastern Europe following the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk, if they had managed to pull off a win. There are a couple of follow up lectures on the interwar economy which are also great if you are into that sort of thing. Basically I could listen to Adam Tooze forever  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDlRKl3XGoM
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May 11, 2016 11:54
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razak posted:This makes me wonder... How many times have land based torpedoes been successful? There can't have been a huge number of times that they had a chance to be used and were successful. Depends on your definition of "land based" and "torpedo" 
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May 11, 2016 11:55
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feedmegin posted:It didn't end up particularly well for them even as-is. Having one of your shiny new cruisers knocked off by 50 year old guns that your own country made and land-based torpedoes of all things, and as a result letting the legitimate government escape capture is a bit embarrassing, really. In addition to the significant naval losses - besides Blücher, a large number of destroyers were also lost to the RN - the occupation of Norway tied up something like 200000 German soldiers, IIRC, and its usefulness as a basing area for U-boats was soon overshadowed by the French ports on the Atlantic. Although to be fair to the Germans, they didn't know at the time of Weserübung that they'd roll the French in six weeks. But had things gone even more wrong, such as the Norwegians mobilizing earlier or the Allied help being more effective, the whole operation would probably have failed. Alekanderu fucked around with this message at 17:34 on May 11, 2016 |
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May 11, 2016 17:30
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Endman posted:
This is even funnier: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kircholm
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May 11, 2016 18:04
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from the point of view of cavalry, sweden just gets its rear end handed to it repeatedly and without mercy from 1600 to 1648 everyone, everywhere has better cav than sweden
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May 11, 2016 18:11
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HEY GAL posted:the parts of the 30yw that weren't in Germany do not get enough love, read this: I can make a guess but how does one pronounce this
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May 11, 2016 18:16
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Elyv posted:I can make a guess but how does one pronounce this
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May 11, 2016 18:21
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HEY GAL posted:Honigfelde That's cheating
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May 11, 2016 18:24
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HEY GAL posted:from the point of view of cavalry, sweden just gets its rear end handed to it repeatedly and without mercy from 1600 to 1648 Counterpoint: the English.
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May 11, 2016 18:34
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perhaps to be truly good at cav, one must simply not be lutheran (or anglican i guess) imperialists polish/lithuanians ottomans croats transylvanians theory checks out
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May 11, 2016 18:38
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HEY GAL posted:perhaps to be truly good at cav, one must simply not be lutheran (or anglican i guess) Were Russians good at cavalry in your time period?
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May 11, 2016 18:41
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Elyv posted:Were Russians good at cavalry in your time period? Cossacks are good at cavalry in any time period.
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May 11, 2016 18:51
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How was Spain's cavalry by the way?
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May 11, 2016 18:54
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Kemper Boyd posted:How was Spain's cavalry by the way? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jinete i think they held events where they train dudes to do that, but i might also be pulling that directly out my butt
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May 11, 2016 18:59
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Kemper Boyd posted:Counterpoint: the English. Hey now, we still had better cavalry than the Covenanters.
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May 11, 2016 19:02
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feedmegin posted:Hey now, we still had better cavalry than the Covenanters. who all used to work for swedes, q e d
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May 11, 2016 19:02
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The Romans make a desert and call it peace. The Scottish have a lady sit on top of a haggis and call it cavalry.
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May 11, 2016 19:19
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quote:This lecture by the same Adam Tooze is a good overview of the German plans for Eastern Europe following the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk, if they had managed to pull off a win. There are a couple of follow up lectures on the interwar economy which are also great if you are into that sort of thing. Basically I could listen to Adam Tooze forever I think it was an essay in What If: Gay Black Hitler the Book that very, very optimistically made the case that if Germany had won in WWI it would've led to a proto-EU being established. Also nthing that Wages of Destruction is a fantastic book. I bought my copy from the Dacau gift shop and felt odd whenever I'd read it in public in Germany.
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May 11, 2016 19:19
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I even felt fremdschämen while reading it on my iPad, in a German airport, all by myself. Don't mention the war and all that.
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May 11, 2016 19:33
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Pontius Pilate posted:the Dacau gift shop
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May 11, 2016 20:16
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Arquinsiel posted:The idea of this even existing makes me feel odd. Typing it made me feel odd and I was thinking of alternate phrasing like Dacau memorial shop. If I remember correctly it didn't have kitschy items like most museum gift shops but more educational things. And hey I guess they've got bills to pay. e: this reminds me of that very tasteful touristy photo of Newt Gingrich and his wife at Auschwitz.
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May 11, 2016 20:27
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After reading Dreadnought by Robert K Massie I can't help to be terrified at what an utter buffoon Wilhelm II and that he actually had power. Also Jackie Fisher is so amazing that you realize that truth really is stranger than fiction, I mean inventing the armoured train on a whim, reforming the royal navy that was in really dire straits, desigining a class of warships that changes everything and taking "Fear God and dread nought" as a motto on his coat of arms .
Pump it up! Do it! fucked around with this message at 20:36 on May 11, 2016 |
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May 11, 2016 20:33
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Lord Tywin posted:After reading Dreadnought by Robert K Massie I can't help to be terrified at what an utter buffoon Wilhelm II and that he actually had power. Also Jackie Fisher is so amazing that you realize that truth really is stranger than fiction, I mean inventing the armoured train on a whim, reforming the royal navy that was in really dire straits, desigining a class of warships that changes everything and taking "Fear God and dread nought" as a motto on his coat of arms
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May 11, 2016 20:38
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Pontius Pilate posted:Typing it made me feel odd and I was thinking of alternate phrasing like Dacau memorial shop. If I remember correctly it didn't have kitschy items like most museum gift shops but more educational things. And hey I guess they've got bills to pay. Yeah, I got Maus at the Berlin Holocaust memorial, and it gave me the same kind of odd feeling to buy something from the giftshop for such a place. But it goes to support an extremely worthwhile educational resource.
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May 11, 2016 20:57
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I loved dreadnought and the other one, I have no idea what was wrong with them
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May 11, 2016 21:28
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Pontius Pilate posted:Typing it made me feel odd and I was thinking of alternate phrasing like Dacau memorial shop. If I remember correctly it didn't have kitschy items like most museum gift shops but more educational things. And hey I guess they've got bills to pay. This reminds me of something wonderful that happened in the Cold War thread recently. Someone was talking about an air museum, and... 0toShifty posted:There's a lot to see - plan a day! Cyrano4747 posted:Nothing wrong with wanting a pic with one of the founding fathers of your democracy
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May 11, 2016 21:40
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Pontius Pilate posted:Typing it made me feel odd and I was thinking of alternate phrasing like Dacau memorial shop. If I remember correctly it didn't have kitschy items like most museum gift shops but more educational things. And hey I guess they've got bills to pay. Says the man who bought the Osprey Irish Defence Forces Since 1922 book in Collins Barracks' gift shop on Easter Monday this year...
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May 11, 2016 21:41
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Arquinsiel posted:The idea of this even existing makes me feel odd. I sent a "wish you were here" postcard from in front of the gift shop at Auschwitz, and it got all the way to its recipient in the US. I'm guessing the Polish postal service doesn't speak much English.
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May 11, 2016 21:47
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Arquinsiel posted:The idea of this even existing makes me feel odd. From what I remember, it was really a bookshop selling a variety of books related to the Holocaust and the NS period in general. There certainly were no kitschy trinkets or little model barracks that I could see. Next to it, however, was a cafeteria offering coffee and sweet pastries and such. Seemed somehow distasteful to munch on that kind of stuff in such a place.
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May 11, 2016 22:16
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Kopijeger posted:Next to it, however, was a cafeteria offering coffee and sweet pastries and such. Seemed somehow distasteful to munch on that kind of stuff in such a place. "So, where do you work?" "Oh, behind the counter at a snack bar." "Cool, where?" "...at a... camp site."
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May 11, 2016 23:00
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Kopijeger posted:From what I remember, it was really a bookshop selling a variety of books related to the Holocaust and the NS period in general. There certainly were no kitschy trinkets or little model barracks that I could see. Next to it, however, was a cafeteria offering coffee and sweet pastries and such. Seemed somehow distasteful to munch on that kind of stuff in such a place. It's almost disappointing that they didn't do like the Mutter Museum and have ironically morbid kitsch gifts.
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May 11, 2016 23:08
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chitoryu12 posted:It's almost disappointing that they didn't do like the Mutter Museum and have ironically morbid kitsch gifts. 
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May 11, 2016 23:24
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I get how Switzerland could maintain independence, but how did dorky little San Marino not get attacked during the height of fascist Italy's expansion? You'd think they'd want to clean up that little speck in the middle of their supposedly ethnically united peninsula before engaging in some foolhardy overseas venture.
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May 11, 2016 23:36
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