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avatarinwin posted:yeah people wait for fatigue anyway so a 30 second spool up during fatigue is a net zero amount of time, but i realize what you're saying about dumb time sinks, imo 30 seconds isn't thaat bad it's not terrible but the entire gameplay experience of a jump freighter is sitting waiting for poo poo to happen while hoping to not die, so each extra bit of waiting watching paint dry adds up
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May 13, 2016 21:44
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avatarinwin posted:Look at all these JF kills of pilots who didn't do the effort required to probably not die. JF kills fall into 3 categories. The dumb, the lazy, and the unlucky. Not being dumb and not being lazy requires effort.
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May 13, 2016 21:50
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yeah ive been doing jf stuff (albeit not as long as dedicated logistics people) a very long time, and have never felt unsafe, and have never been in unsafe situations. I've dced once on gate and since no one actively tried to hunt jfs in lowsec until recently there was no one there to capitalize on the only time i was killable, which was 100% out of my hands
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May 13, 2016 22:09
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Unfunny Poster posted:You claimed specifically that CZ gave him the info and have yet to prove that. Your argument is simply you using assumptions and speculation about what CZ did without, you know, actually proving they did it with evidence. Again, it'd be no different than anyone claiming TMC was handing over IPs & email addresses to you so you can dredge up people's personal info. There's no proof of this, mind you, but the evidence is as tangible as your evidence about CZ giving DJ the guys IP. Can we go back to the relatively chill Tallardar from before The Current War? Weasel's said a few times before this post words to the effect of, "Yeah, good point about the IP thing. That was just my assumption, and my bad if I was wrong." If you irrefutable proof of wrong-doing for Things Done on the Internet you're probably going to be mad for a long time about lots of things. Can't we all agree that DJ hasn't changed and still acts unhinged on the Internet and makes funny drama in EVE? evilweasel posted:it's not terrible but the entire gameplay experience of a jump freighter is sitting waiting for poo poo to happen while hoping to not die, so each extra bit of waiting watching paint dry adds up Would adding a jump spool-up be easier to take if JF cargo were increased by 3-5%?
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May 13, 2016 22:33
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Ynglaur posted:Can't we all agree that DJ hasn't changed and still acts unhinged on the Internet and makes funny drama in EVE? Did you even play with DJ or is this comment based on something someone else told you?
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May 13, 2016 22:35
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Ynglaur posted:
Don't forget bleating everywhere that he's totally a different guy
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May 13, 2016 22:36
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OWLS! posted:I run target painters on my Phoenix when I go poco bashing. Since Pyfa is garbage and EFT abandoned. Is a target painter and precision script enough?
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May 13, 2016 22:47
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Target painters don't script, and I believe TPs 1+2 are better than an MGC even scripted for precision from what I've heard
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May 13, 2016 22:52
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gwrtheyrn posted:Target painters don't script, and I believe TPs 1+2 are better than an MGC even scripted for precision from what I've heard No I meant a target painter plus a missile Guidance computer with a precision script.
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May 13, 2016 22:53
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RVCMF has claimed it's first killmail   He was like less than a month old and when I checked his killboard I saw he had been fitting sisters probe launchers on his herons and losing them with alarming frequency, so instead of just warping back out I popped him, convo'd him and had a chat. He now knows what skills to train, what ship he should be aiming for for exploration, not to fit faction modules on untanked t1 frigates and he's 100m isk richer so I think that was a happy ending 
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May 13, 2016 22:58
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Zephyrine posted:No I meant a target painter plus a missile Guidance computer with a precision script. Looks like 2 TP and 1 TP+1 MGC both get you full damage vs a poco Edit: wait just kidding looks like the TP + MGC is 100 dps less or something because i'm bad at reading graphs
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May 13, 2016 23:00
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gwrtheyrn posted:Looks like 2 TP and 1 TP+1 MGC both get you full damage vs a poco Odd but alright!
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May 13, 2016 23:08
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Ynglaur posted:Weasel's said a few times before this post words to the effect of, "Yeah, good point about the IP thing. That was just my assumption, and my bad if I was wrong." If you irrefutable proof of wrong-doing for Things Done on the Internet you're probably going to be mad for a long time about lots of things. no you see goons said it therefore the burden of proof is much larger than it would be in a reverse scenario
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May 13, 2016 23:10
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ranbo das posted:RVCMF has claimed it's first killmail More like ROCK VENTURE UNCHILL BLOOD-HUNGRY MURDER corp. 
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May 13, 2016 23:15
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Siets posted:More like ROCK VENTURE UNCHILL BLOOD-HUNGRY MURDER corp. The seal is broken it has begun.
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May 13, 2016 23:20
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http://i.imgur.com/jhcN1Ke.webm
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May 13, 2016 23:24
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FruitNYogurtParfait posted:Don't forget bleating everywhere that he's totally a different guy I'm going to need a final decision on this, is there or is there not a statute of limitations on being a dickhead?
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May 13, 2016 23:41
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Rhymenoserous posted:I'm going to need a final decision on this, is there or is there not a statute of limitations on being a dickhead? the statute is paraphrased as such: if you're no longer a douchebag, and you apologize or are otherwise forgiven for being a douchebag previously but also know that if you ever douchebag again everyone knows you're also a fatass lying piece of poo poo to go with the rest of your douchebaggery
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May 13, 2016 23:48
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If fozzie changed the three minute auto warp timer to 5 or 7 minutes, I would be content. the real crimes is the hundreds of jfs that cyno off the jita undock daily. No jumps out of highsec would be a good start.
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May 13, 2016 23:52
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DisgracelandUSA posted:No jumps out of highsec would be a good start. A good start to making jump freighters almost useless
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May 13, 2016 23:54
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gwrtheyrn posted:A good start to making jump freighters almost useless Honestly it's effectively the same thing as the 30 second spool timer for jumping out of hisec that was proposed earlier. Either way it means that people will only use JFs to make the last jump from high-low, and will probably just use red frog or whatever to get their stuff there.
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May 14, 2016 00:01
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DisgracelandUSA posted:If fozzie changed the three minute auto warp timer to 5 or 7 minutes, I would be content. the real crimes is the hundreds of jfs that cyno off the jita undock daily. No jumps out of highsec would be a good start. I've been in Miniluv and I understand the frustration of having JFs almost invulnerable to ganking. However, demanding all ships be gankable in high-sec starts to sound a bit over the top. Apparently JFs can be gotten when they're in lowsec, thus they are not ungankable. Maybe if you want to get more JFs, you should consider going to their lowsec entry point? Whenever I would do JF runs to high-sec I would get really paranoid of people scouting my low-sec cyno and blowing it up just as they started harassing my JF pilot. If you scout low-sec systems you'll be able to build a list matching cyno and JF pilots. With some preparation you could make it really difficult for a pilot just undocked from Jita to get his cyno ready.
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May 14, 2016 00:10
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This is starting to sound a while lot like the "They should remove local so I can kill all these juicy ratting carriers that just jump out when they see me" argument. If Jump freighters could not jump out of high sec. Then they wouldn't be travelling through high sec in the first place. Instead people would use over tanked T1 freighters since they insure at 100% while doing the same job (since neither would now be able to jump). The Jump freighter would be in the very last system. warping from the undock to the out gate and you wouldn't be ganking them at either position.
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May 14, 2016 00:29
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rgocs posted:However, demanding all ships be gankable in high-sec starts to sound a bit over the top Who are you because you're dumb
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May 14, 2016 00:33
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A simple fix would be to prevent cyno from being used within 5-10km of a station. In addition I'd probably say it would be also worthwhile to have a spool up effect for jumping out. The station brawling Pheonix is exceptionally stupid since the second Siege dropped they would jump out before a point could be applied. They can just recycle the MJD effect that Command Destroyers use for all I care. This adds in an element of risk to all capitals without utterly breaking them. SC already are forced to abide by cynoing beyond 150km above a pos before they warp down into it which is a good compromise that allows them to get caught and killed.
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May 14, 2016 00:42
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yeah, I'd love for cynoing out to not be instant.
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May 14, 2016 00:45
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i too wish for living anywhere but highsec to be not worth it
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May 14, 2016 01:50
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i too enjoy the status quo
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May 14, 2016 01:51
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Being a jump freighter pilot is just too much fun.
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May 14, 2016 01:55
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Zephyrine posted:This is starting to sound a while lot like the "They should remove local so I can kill all these juicy ratting carriers that just jump out when they see me" argument. Playing with no local makes EVE way better, so yes, they should get rid of local.
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May 14, 2016 02:22
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i'm in favor of making local delayed by default in nullsec but letting you claw back the intel advantage with observatories
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May 14, 2016 02:25
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evilweasel posted:I haven't done any of the stuff you accused me of, but you're the one running interference for dj right now on it. I can back up the stuff i'm saying and have, you on the other hand jumped in to run intoerference for your spacebuddy and were wrong, threw a snit in response and decided to accuse me personally of vile poo poo. So get hosed. Uba whatever / unfunny poster has been disingenuous about this poo poo since he first showed up on SA trying to nail himself to a cross about his own purported doxxing. I asked him about that by PM back then, and not in a hostile way either. But he tried to turn even a PM convo into a umad / concern troll on me. So that's the kind of balls-less forum warrior you're dealing with, and honestly you shouldn't even waste your time. Really, what kind of person spends months yelling digi doxxed me! to every eve-related site that he can type a post on, then turns around and does a goalpost moving defense like that? Holy poo poo.
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May 14, 2016 02:56
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it's almost like the whole to-do about doxxing is a bunch of concern troll bullshit trying to milk outrage out of an isolated mistake years ago
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May 14, 2016 03:03
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We've scouted and popped cynos before, but that's just another layer to the added personnel complexity of the gank, and is an N+1 scenario (that ultimately we cannot know until after the fact). Preventing jumps out of highsec would just make the freighter travel to lowsec to jump. You can jump while still invuln, so not a ridiculously big change. This whole issue comes down to whether or not you believe JFs should be in danger in highsec and in lowsec. The former will never be possible as long as people can cyno off the jita undock, and the latter could use some potential. People already do what Angelique is suggesting with supertanked freighters. We see it all the time in highsec / lowsec points, so I don't see the problem? I understand that this would significantly impact the game and make remote areas of space more of a pain to live in. Frankly, having logistics be safe, reliable and not overly difficult is probably good for the game. It makes it easier and less frustrating for everyone to play. And I think CCP sees it that way with the continuous nerfs to ganking. But it also flies in the face of their statement "No where should be safe" and makes for some truly boring gameplay.
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May 14, 2016 03:06
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Glory of Arioch posted:it's almost like the whole to-do about doxxing is a bunch of concern troll bullshit trying to milk outrage out of an isolated mistake years ago
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May 14, 2016 03:07
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YouTuber posted:The station brawling Pheonix is exceptionally stupid since the second Siege dropped they would jump out before a point could be applied.
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May 14, 2016 03:27
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Marauders are now in a really lovely spot. They can't refit with weapon timers, so there goes refitting during bastion. They can't move when bastioned, and they can't rep/tank worth a drat when not bastioned. And now, they're no longer e-war immune during bastion. Any thoughts on how to make them suck less without breaking them?
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May 14, 2016 03:29
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Fix Lag posted:Any thoughts on how to make them suck less without breaking them? I'm not really familiar with Marauders since generally I don't touch anything bigger than a Battlecruiser. From what I understand, these were originally envisioned as a PvE battlewagon that operates away from home base for extended periods, right?
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May 14, 2016 03:49
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you're right, jump freighters should be used in lowsec. the real problem is you being unable to interact with the majority of valuable traffic moving in and out of jita because it's moved in completely safe (the only real risk is literally dcing) way. if people moved it in regular freighters to a dropoff point and jumped out from there to lowsec you'd have a shot at killing it en route to it's location. You have a chance at interacting with that cargo. Currently it is impossible to be 'out played' running a JF. You literally cannot die if you play it right, and playing it right is trivial.
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May 14, 2016 03:55
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DisgracelandUSA posted:We've scouted and popped cynos before, but that's just another layer to the added personnel complexity of the gank, and is an N+1 scenario (that ultimately we cannot know until after the fact). Preventing jumps out of highsec would just make the freighter travel to lowsec to jump. You can jump while still invuln, so not a ridiculously big change. Thanks for giving a more thought-of answer instead of Deadtear's default, and I should say expected, "hur, hur, you're dumb" response. I don't think JFs should be safe in hisec. I can see I expressed myself wrong. I wanted to say that it seemed to me you wanted to be able to use the same techniques and effort levels to kill JFs as you do for freighters. And that, I don't agree with. The idea of scouting and popping cynos was trying to convey this. Sure, it needs more effort to set up, but still puts JFs in hisec in danger. I see what you mean about it being an N+1 problem. But it is still doable. And you are trying to kill a 7.5b ship whose only gimmick is that it can jump. From what you write, you seem to want JFs to behave just like freighters if they go into hisec. I guess they do have faster align, but that wouldn't help them get away. As you and Anguelique say, that would lead to JFs never going into hisec, because at 5-times the price tag, who in their right mind would do that. I tried doing JF stuff for a bit and burned out quite quickly. I can't imagine what having to slowboat back out of hisec would be like. Then again, as long as there are people willing to get paid to do it, it's fine by me.
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May 14, 2016 03:56
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