|
Palpek posted:If you want to feel really old: They're not young, they're just idiots.
|
#
?
May 14, 2016 11:50
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 20:49 |
|
|
TBH their reactions are more positive when playing than I expected (if they're not scripted that is).
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2016 11:51
|
|
|
Palpek posted:Fallout 3's biggest merit is translating the Fallout universe into an FPS. I think people really underrate this feat. What Bethesda did from the perspective of estabilishing core gameplay mechanics, the way the interactions work, the systems present in the game was an enormous amount of work. Obsidian really showed what you can do with of all of that but their game wouldn't be half as good without hundreds of good decisions that Bethesda made in the first place. In that sense it's important to acknowledge FO3. It doesn't exist in a void anymore though as New Vegas showed what the premise is capable of and it's a shame that in turn FO4 scrapped Obsidian's work in developing the concept for the game. That video CBA posted touched on this to some extent. They built this game engine and set of game mechanics that actually worked quite well and even had nay-sayers go back and say "Ok I guess Fallout can be an FPS and still be Fallout." Fallout 3 is a neat Fallout theme-park and if you treat it that way, you'll have a lot of fun. If you want anything deeper though, you'll be very disappointed. I liked the point about how your choices in almost every scenario boil down to being either "good" (a normal person) or a total psychopath with nothing in-between. The choice with Megaton is perfectly emblematic. You can either sorta help some people out in a town or blow them all up. It makes you think about that scenario designer. A normal person looks at the world and their community and the problems they face and thinks "it's hard to know what the right thing to do is." A Fallout 3 designer looks at the world, then looks down and sees a turtle struggling to climb a rock to catch sun and thinks "I can help this turtle onto the rock or shoot it with this gun. What a moral conundrum!"
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2016 12:26
|
|
|
I don't see why the lack of complexity is a mark against it. Like with Dark Souls, I prefer to blame the marketing (Todd Howard himself especially) for talking up the morality system when it's actually fairly simple- but there's nothing wrong with the simplicity itself. Yes, your only choices are "be a very good person" or "be a very bad person", but that only presents a problem if you want nuance out of it. I think the way they slipped up is by implying there would be nuance in the first place instead of being forthright about how you can either be the savior or the villain and that's your lot. Of course, if they'd done that then the game wouldn't have been called as revolutionary as it initially was before people started dismantling it, but imo honesty would've preserved their reputation in the long run a bit better. edit: The game also would have benefited from the writing being a bit better to justify why you can only be v good or v bad but there isn't a well-written Bethesda game that exists so that's not really unexpected. CJacobs fucked around with this message at 12:43 on May 14, 2016 |
|
#
?
May 14, 2016 12:37
|
|
|
I don't agree, lack of complexity is a flaw in that gameworld considering that it's grounded in semi-realistic contexts and includes various interests, factions and politics. There's a place and time for simplicty and the Fallout setting isn't a good fit and New Vegas captured that right by having different paths to achieving even the same extremely good or bad outcomes (and then adding non/extreme outcomes as well). Imo Mass Effect is a good fit for simplictic bad/good choices but the Fallout setting is nuanced enough and often focused on realistic personal dramas of dozens of NPCs that it's grating when your choices are too simple. It's not about wrong marketing but being disappointed by what kind of vision the game itself presents to you and then what you're allowed to do in it.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2016 12:55
|
|
|
It's silly to be shot at by everyone in your line of sight because you stole a fork, even if your game doesn't have much complexity to it in the quest related choices you make, I'm not denying that. I just think the game would have met with peoples' expectations better if they had really pushed the hero vs villain angle. edit: And really I think the game itself would have been better off if it did as well in terms of its design philosophy- instead of emphasizing "you can do anything" when you really can't, instead the emphasis could have been on "you can do these things and be able to really see the effects of it". Obviously the game as it is today can't be that way, it would've had to have been done from the ground up with that in mind, but it would've been interesting to see. CJacobs fucked around with this message at 13:06 on May 14, 2016 |
|
#
?
May 14, 2016 13:02
|
|
|
Mass Effect does it better than Fallout 3, but it's still got problems. The Paragon options are pretty consistent, but Renegade options are a mix of pragmatism, racism, general dickishness and outright evil. It's pretty easy to imagine a character that is one (or some) of them but not all, but it's not always clear what the options and interrupts do.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2016 13:05
|
|
|
CJacobs posted:Please don't play an fps game with a controller even if you're good at using a controller I use GZDoom so I can play old school Doom with a controller, hail Satan  and furthermoreSakurazuka posted:I'm going to do whatever the gently caress I like bitch
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2016 13:22
|
|
|
CJacobs posted:It's silly to be shot at by everyone in your line of sight because you stole a fork, even if your game doesn't have much complexity to it in the quest related choices you make, I'm not denying that. I just think the game would have met with peoples' expectations better if they had really pushed the hero vs villain angle. What bothers me is when there are big plot points and the only choices that you're given are extreme while the way the gameworld is presented as a more nuanced one. So you hear all these stories from various different NPCs that shed different light on the matter and show you different factors to consider and then in the end bam you're either their Jesus Christ who forgives all sins or you kill them all in some amazingly cruel way. Another factor is the 'how' though where your personal choices in developing the protagonist influence the way you achieve your goals (whatever they may be) and you're given different tools and options depending on your abilities (engineer, scientist, fighter etc.). But I don't need to imagine how this could be resolved as a game like this already exists and is called New Vegas.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2016 13:24
|
|
|
Well yeah, it's a poorly written game. That's part of my point. Fallout New Vegas' main plot line has always bothered me because it's got so many insane coincidences all rolling together at the same time to make up the story; because of that, I didn't find it as enjoyable as I would if it were a Mad Max type situation and you were just a dude who got caught in the wrong place and is now wrapped up in the events. NV plays out like you were predestined to be the decider of every important event in the Mojave and I wasn't a real big fan of how hard the DLC pushes that on you. They give you more say in how your character acts, but I think the cost of that is that the entire game world revolves around you the moment you leave Goodsprings which is a different issue and a problem FO3 also had. CJacobs fucked around with this message at 13:33 on May 14, 2016 |
|
#
?
May 14, 2016 13:28
|
|
|
I'd forgotten how good the music in Valkyria Chronicles was.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2016 13:28
|
|
|
Sakurazuka posted:I'd forgotten how good the music in Valkyria Chronicles was. A great game about the horrors of war and the importance of vegetables. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBv3q29O2VU
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2016 13:35
|
|
|
People in this very forum talked about how Doom was really fast and they were having a hard time getting used to it at first, the revelation that a person isn't amazing at a game in their first 30 minutes of playing it is by far the stupidest volley in this pissing match against games journalists yet.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2016 13:37
|
|
|
LawfulWaffle posted:A great game about the horrors of war and the importance of vegetables. Is that fred tatasciore telling me about how eating my veggies will make me grow strong
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2016 13:38
|
|
|
Guy Mann posted:People in this very forum talked about how Doom was really fast and they were having a hard time getting used to it at first, the revelation that a person isn't amazing at a game in their first 30 minutes of playing it is by far the stupidest volley in this pissing match against games journalists yet. My dude have you watched the video? The person playing it isn't bad at Doom. The person playing it is bad at controlling a game in first person. It takes significant effort for them to hit a stationary target. I don't really care if someone is bad at videogames but that's not the person you want showing off the hottest new veegees. CJacobs posted:Is that fred tatasciore telling me about how eating my veggies will make me grow strong Yes. Please play Valkyria Chronicles.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2016 13:56
|
|
|
Guy Mann posted:People in this very forum talked about how Doom was really fast and they were having a hard time getting used to it at first, the revelation that a person isn't amazing at a game in their first 30 minutes of playing it is by far the stupidest volley in this pissing match against games journalists yet.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2016 14:01
|
|
|
that polygon video is probably a pretty good look at how i would do playing doom
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2016 14:08
|
|
|
corn in the bible posted:that polygon video is probably a pretty good look at how i would do playing doom
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2016 14:11
|
|
|
and Necrovision
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2016 14:12
|
|
|
LawfulWaffle posted:Brevity is the soul of wit. A feature length film on why a game isn't good is something else entirely Yeah. You can play Fallout 3 and know in 10 minutes why it sucks donkey turds.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2016 14:15
|
|
|
How long is Doom anyway?
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2016 14:22
|
|
|
Palpek posted:How long is Doom anyway? 4 letters. edit: I haven't watched that video about fallout 3 yet, but most of the criticism in this thread have been on point. It's just that those are all things I associate with modern videogames. Any game that advertises a morality system or that you can "do anything" is bound to have a garbage system. Fable games are like that, where good and evil is literally a choice: "be good, or be evil". Evil is never the result of using means to an end, it is an end unto itself. I really liked all the cool setting poo poo in fallout 3, like the vault full of ghosts, or the pleasantville-style simulation you could get trapped in. Malcolm McDowell on the radio was honestly my favorite thing about the game, and that's not a dig. More games should have that. As far as stuff like "you stole a fork, now the entire world is hostile to you" well yeah that's lovely, but that's also 99% of games that have a system like that. The only game I know of that doesn't have the sorts of flaws that FA3 does is The Witcher 3, which makes all other RPGs look like garbage, but it only game out last year. Snak fucked around with this message at 14:31 on May 14, 2016 |
|
#
?
May 14, 2016 14:26
|
|
|
Snak posted:4 letters. Rack 'em.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2016 14:28
|
|
|
i was gonna say check http://howlongtobeat.com/game.php?id=2708 but this is weird, they're listing 8 completed playtimes with no reported estimation. My theory is that Bethesda is paying them not to report it for the first weekend.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2016 14:29
|
|
|
Palpek posted:Sometimes a gently caress-up is a gently caress-up. ya, like people who give a poo poo about this in the slightest, or watched the polygon video review of doom 4 to begin with
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2016 14:30
|
|
|
Palpek posted:How long is Doom anyway? you have not seen the last of Doom
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2016 14:31
|
|
|
In Training posted:i was gonna say check http://howlongtobeat.com/game.php?id=2708 but this is weird, they're listing 8 completed playtimes with no reported estimation. My theory is that Bethesda is paying them not to report it for the first weekend.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2016 14:32
|
|
|
I clicked this video and had a British accent start to speak, so I thought "okay, good start" and then I randomly clicked the video timeline and jumped about five minutes in where a British person is very excitedly saying how much he liked finding a bunch of plastic knives underneath the floor of I guess an Enclave base and then he said "if Fallout 3 was made entirely out of moments like these, it would be the greatest game ever made!" I'm not all that excited by plastic cutlery, so I turned the video off.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2016 14:44
|
|
|
I'm 8-bit-scholar-sympathetic. Which means I feel sympathy that we allow mentally ill people to post on these forums to sustain an unhealthy delusion.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2016 14:50
|
|
|
Snak posted:The only game I know of that doesn't have the sorts of flaws that FA3 does is The Witcher 3, which makes all other RPGs look like garbage, but it only game out last year.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2016 14:51
|
|
|
Doom loving rules. I just have to get used to the movement speed in this game so I don't get motion sickness 
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2016 15:01
|
|
|
Skeezy posted:Doom loving rules. I just have to get used to the movement speed in this game so I don't get motion sickness Does it feel as much like ice skating as the original Doom games? I replayed one recently and I was struck by how the concept of friction seemed nonexistent in this universe.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2016 15:02
|
|
|
8-Bit Scholar posted:I clicked this video and had a British accent start to speak, so I thought "okay, good start" and then I randomly clicked the video timeline and jumped about five minutes in where a British person is very excitedly saying how much he liked finding a bunch of plastic knives underneath the floor of I guess an Enclave base and then he said "if Fallout 3 was made entirely out of moments like these, it would be the greatest game ever made!" wtf is it with British people and their need to preface every lovely game impressions video with a 30-minute C.V. of their gaming credentials and life histories, good lord.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2016 15:02
|
|
|
Palpek posted:TW3 goes with the point that the protagonist can't really influence the big changes that much - he can make a difference here and there and mainly to those who are close to him but the wheel of history will roll over everybody in the end and that's a different perspective than that of the Fallout's chosen one. is it really, though? I guess In TW3 moreso than TW2, that's the case. But I also feel like outside of nuke or don't nuke Megaton, there aren't very many "big" changes that really happen in Fallout 3? Like, the wasteland is the wasteland is the wasteland... Like when one faction wins over another in FA3, or you become emperor in Skyrim, what does that actually do? the impact to gameplay and story is essentially a few lines of dialogue. Which, to me, puts it back on the same footing as The Witcher, except that the Witcher is written a lot better so those changes actually feel more meaningful from a narrative control point of view, even if the are technically "on a smaller scale".
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2016 15:13
|
|
|
I think the moment I realized FO3 was a step forward in games technology was when I went to Rivet City for a totally unrelated sidequest in Megaton and stumbled upon the scientist lady, who recognized me when I talked to her and jumped the plot quests ahead several hours. I didn't have to do the detour to Galaxy News Radio or do Three Dog's quest or go do the Washington Monument or any of that stuff, and I was able to pick up the radio dish repair thing as a sidequest later instead. I thought it was very cool that the game allowed that to happen instead of just not spawning her until the time for her to show up in the main quest chain came up.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2016 15:18
|
|
|
8-Bit Scholar posted:Does it feel as much like ice skating as the original Doom games? I replayed one recently and I was struck by how the concept of friction seemed nonexistent in this universe. I had to mess around with some settings but the defaults are like you're ice skating around yeah.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2016 15:49
|
|
|
Skeezy posted:I had to mess around with some settings but the defaults are like you're ice skating around yeah. Went to check some gameplay footage to see what you meant and yeah, it definitely looks like classic Doom movement style. The verticality looks amazing, just going fast and climbing up things and attacking from above and below, this game looks a lot better than I'd really expected it to be.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2016 16:24
|
|
|
8-Bit Scholar posted:Went to check some gameplay footage to see what you meant and yeah, it definitely looks like classic Doom movement style. The verticality looks amazing, just going fast and climbing up things and attacking from above and below, this game looks a lot better than I'd really expected it to be. They really mucked it up by showing off the multiplayer more and never any of the campaign.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2016 16:36
|
|
|
Zaphod42 posted:This is Polygon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwg6RTjCH7g  His voice sounds like he's on the verge of crying from PTSD over a video game.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2016 16:52
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 20:49 |
|
|
Zaphod42 posted:This is Polygon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwg6RTjCH7g I made it 46 seconds before I started laughing uncontrollably. He just starts sounding like Droopy Hound.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2016 17:04
|
|