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abigserve posted:The fact that you couldn't get enough guys to login to defend your home turf is a fate worse than losing the sov. On paper your alliances combined were way bigger than your enemies although probably not on super cap terms? Yes this is the most disapointing fact. It was clear even before that that the CFC/Imperium had a lot of dead weight but due to the huge member base it should have been able to field more ships. Since Imperium average member's skill is pretty low (both in SP and player skill), there was little hope of winning when out-blobed. And that is subcap only. The CFC then Imperium has been building a crapton of supercaps and those were -also- nowere to be found when the need arose. The CFC was rotting from the inside due to inaction. At this point, I don't think that the average member that's still here even wants to go back to the statu quo of boring pre-war Imperium.
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May 15, 2016 12:01
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Krogort posted:Yes this is the most disapointing fact. The imperium was fun for those who love to shoot npc's. The death of the imperium is good for those who wants to shoot actual players. The imperium is dead. Long live the imperium.
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May 15, 2016 12:03
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Glory of Arioch posted:okay, now add ncdot, moa, drone walkers, oss, oos, blood covenant, darkness, slyce, tard, and a gaggle of other shitbirds that mysteriously show up for every timer Yo I aint on either side of all this politics stuff I'm just an outsider peeking through the window from the bushes. What about Lawn, bastion, co2 and FCON?
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May 15, 2016 12:07
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Krogort posted:And that is subcap only. The CFC then Imperium has been building a crapton of supercaps and those were -also- nowere to be found when the need arose. Krogort posted:The CFC was rotting from the inside due to inaction. All of this has happened before, all of it will happen again.
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May 15, 2016 12:13
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abigserve posted:Yo I aint on either side of all this politics stuff I'm just an outsider peeking through the window from the bushes. What about Lawn, bastion, co2 and FCON? co2 traitored real quick, fcon put up numbers and so did lawn and bastion afaik, sma did really well, if anything it's goonfleet that got fat and lazy, along with perennial lazybones razor
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May 15, 2016 12:16
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Glory of Arioch posted:uh, sma lost hardly anything against tishu and horde back in the start of this year, and what they did lose they took back You didn't lose sov, you lost fleet numbers. Guess which one matters most in the end.
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May 15, 2016 12:18
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Glory of Arioch posted:okay, now add ncdot, moa, drone walkers, oss, oos, blood covenant, darkness, slyce, tard, and a gaggle of other shitbirds that mysteriously show up for every timer
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May 15, 2016 12:20
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dragonstalking posted:You didn't lose sov, you lost fleet numbers. Are you really going to come back here every few days just to smug: AHAH LOST YOUR SOV!!  Its just getting retarded at this point.
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May 15, 2016 12:21
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The main problem is that the combat pilots who did the original fighting that allowed the Imperium to form. Are the same kind of people who can't just sit in sov space for years of inaction. They need the next fight and so they gradually slipped off one after another. And the people who were perfectly fine with just sitting in the north for years without proper fighting. Were not the people you could depend on to hold the line.
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May 15, 2016 12:27
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Glory of Arioch posted:okay, now add ncdot, moa, drone walkers, oss, oos, blood covenant, darkness, slyce, tard, and a gaggle of other shitbirds that mysteriously show up for every timer Nah see PL would never ally with those idiots, it's totally coincidence 
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May 15, 2016 12:38
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Dalael posted:Are you really going to come back here every few days just to smug: AHAH LOST YOUR SOV!! You're not a good poster and should consider this when telling other people not to post. He is absolutely right: losing sov shouldn't matter (edit: as much). An alliance should not be tied to its its sov. But if you have a large number of people on paper but are struggling to get them to join fleets then you are not persuading people that there are good enough reasons for them to fight for you or for their own alliances. To paraphrase the fabulous furry freak brothers, motivated people will get you through times of no sov better than sov will get you through times of no motivated people. For the imperium, numbers peaked at 39% of nullsec coalition members on Chuggi's site, a few weeks before the current war kicked off - http://rischwa.net/coalitions/ Obviously, that ignores lowsec people (not huge numbers, but now shown to be pretty bloody good at eve), as well as the fact that corps like goonwaffe haven't purged since mid-2014 or so. Perhaps most corrosive has been the use of Goonwaffe, the most important corp in the most important alliance in the whole bloc, as a dumping-ground for members from failed corps and the like (when Bat, for instance, left, everyone who was tied to deklein by ratting or moons, everyone who didn't like pvp, and everyone who was subscribed-but-inactive got to parachute into waffe). That was a generous settlement for them but it doesn't serve to make people identify strongly with waffe if that's the use it is put to, and that hurts when things get tough.
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May 15, 2016 12:44
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Endie posted:Perhaps most corrosive has been the use of Goonwaffe, the most important corp in the most important alliance in the whole bloc, as a dumping-ground for members from failed corps and the like (when Bat, for instance, left, everyone who was tied to deklein by ratting or moons, everyone who didn't like pvp, and everyone who was subscribed-but-inactive got to parachute into waffe). That was a generous settlement for them but it doesn't serve to make people identify strongly with waffe if that's the use it is put to, and that hurts when things get tough. Someone smarter than me should probably look into if karmafleet ended up doing the same to GSF as a whole. Before karmafleet, GSF was a downright mysterious entity to many outside players. People weren't sure where the members came from or how people "got in" Then with karmafleet, literally anyone could be a fully fledged member from day one.
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May 15, 2016 12:59
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dragonstalking posted:You didn't lose sov, you lost fleet numbers. lmao we didn't lose fleet numbers because of the aborted attempt on SMA earlier this year
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May 15, 2016 13:05
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LemonDrizzle posted:This is kind of a dumb argument since it's obvious that the MBC was capable of putting more guys on grid in useful ships, but FCON/SMA/BASTN/TNT represented something like 15k characters combined on the imperium side at the start of the festivities. It's not immediately obvious that either side had a clear advantage in nominal combined alliance size. except for the part where the people against us vastly outnumbered us both in terms of alliance member count as well like this is not a difficult concept to understand
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May 15, 2016 13:06
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Zephyrine posted:Someone smarter than me should probably look into if karmafleet ended up doing the same to GSF as a whole. I wouldn't be surprised if karmafleet had better participation than goonwaffe though. People new to the game or at least nullsec are usually willing to give defense fleets a try. Goonwaffe was full of inactives, hard core ratters and people who considered mainfleet something for the pubbies.
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May 15, 2016 13:10
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like here, i stole this from a post on goonfleet dot com by Dreamer Targaryenquote:Involved parties
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May 15, 2016 13:13
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abigserve posted:Yo I aint on either side of all this politics stuff I'm just an outsider peeking through the window from the bushes. What about Lawn, bastion, co2 and FCON? If you add everyone up from both sides it was about 40k chararcters from the CFC and around 60k characters (excluding stuff like Spectre Fleet) from the MBC at the beginning of this campaign. Now we have lost a lot of allies so now it is 20k vs the MBC. All of this is of course a stupid comparison, because character count of an alliance does not equal player count.
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May 15, 2016 13:18
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Glory of Arioch posted:lmao we didn't lose fleet numbers because of the aborted attempt on SMA earlier this year It shows how blind you are that you haven't seen the corrosive effect from the campaigns you waged before WWB-proper.
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May 15, 2016 13:32
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is corrosive the new toxic
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May 15, 2016 13:37
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dragonstalking posted:It shows how blind you are that you haven't seen the corrosive effect from the campaigns you waged before WWB-proper. so wait how far are we moving the goalposts back here, that's a pretty vague statement i got field goals to kick during the penalty shot at the line of scrimmage yo
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May 15, 2016 13:38
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DisgracelandUSA posted:lol JFs are fair and balanced because people don't even have to use every tool for survival at their disposal in order to not get ganked. I don't believe JFs are fair and balanced, but I think they are a minor imbalance for the vast majority of the game. I say this as someone who only flies my JF 1 jump into HS, having used my freighter to deliver the goods there from Jita.
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May 15, 2016 13:42
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Endie posted:the best of all possible words. You rang?
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May 15, 2016 13:43
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Glory of Arioch posted:so wait how far are we moving the goalposts back here
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May 15, 2016 13:48
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as someone said earlier if we moved we would just get followed so I don't really see the point of pulling an FCON and going south unless we just crashed on the russians couch.
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May 15, 2016 13:55
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saying that tishu and horde didn't do much in fade is hardly moving the goalposts see also: disproving that we were somehow not hideously outnumbered
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May 15, 2016 13:56
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ranbo das posted:RVCMF has claimed it's first killmail I am exceptionally glad that you gave him money and advice. If we absolutely must get into fights (and I truly hope we don't) this kind of thing is the chillest thing to do.  I might even be able to get online later today if I am lucky! I have missed the game. I always do when I am about doing other things. This threads last 11 pages (I just got caught up) have been up and down crazy. It wasn't quite the definition of simmer down I had hoped would be followed. There is obviously some new things going on, and some people are happy while others are trying to not show they are unhappy. Lets all take a brief step back and realise here is one of the very few places all other Empires can interact without fear of losing resources.
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May 15, 2016 13:56
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Venom Snake posted:as someone said earlier if we moved we would just get followed so I don't really see the point of pulling an FCON and going south unless we just crashed on the russians couch. The point is that if they follow you, then they aren't hanging out in our old home anymore. And their desire to move around the map gets tested to see if it's the equal of ours. If they don't follow us, then we have fun taking apart someone else's world for a bit while the enthusiasm wanes and AT comes around and focus falters and we are able to properly regroup against a much smaller coalition, possibly with equal or closer super counts, and we have a chance. Frankly, if PL is willing to hell camp our supers forever, there's not a ton of point in retaking a bunch of space within jumping range of that super concentration. JMO.
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May 15, 2016 14:06
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Glory of Arioch posted:like here, i stole this from a post on goonfleet dot com by Dreamer Targaryen
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May 15, 2016 14:08
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Glory of Arioch posted:saying that tishu and horde didn't do much in fade is hardly moving the goalposts Yeah it's more batshit wrong than moving goalposts. The point is your lovely diplomacy and inactive members led you to being outnumbered eventually, you 100% could have avoided it with some active leadership.
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May 15, 2016 14:08
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dragonstalking posted:Yeah it's more batshit wrong than moving goalposts. Leadership is active. The decision tree is what is questioned.
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May 15, 2016 14:09
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LemonDrizzle posted:Those are current alliance sizes and not at all reflective of the situation at the start of the war. Yes, you're heavily outnumbered now that some imperium members have left and others have been killed off, but around the time of the battle of M-O, Test and Horde "only" had 4-5k characters each, SMA and FCON were both active members of the imperium with ~4k characters each, CO2 hadn't pulled their little stunt, and so on. At the start, the two sides were comparatively close to numerical parity, at least in nominal terms; since then, the imperium has bled and the MBC has grown larger. except for the fact that goonswarm federation absorbed roughly half of the FCON/SMA drop since M-O so yeah, the numbers aren't the same then, but it's not a delta of 15k dudes (the number required for it to be at parity at M-O) we were still hideously outnumbered in terms of raw alliance count for M-O, and the gulf has widened since
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May 15, 2016 14:10
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 Can flanders or someone talk me out of buying this mistake of a Guardian if we ever undock not-interceptors again.
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May 15, 2016 14:24
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Jbz posted:
MWD guardians what are you nulli? It doesn't even have cap transfers 
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May 15, 2016 14:26
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May 15, 2016 14:27
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Jbz posted:
What in the gently caress is this abomination? A half a billion isk guardian that will cap itself out in less than 3 minutes? Haha holy poo poo dude.
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May 15, 2016 14:44
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A member of the corp left today and it has really bummed me out. 
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May 15, 2016 15:00
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VideoGames posted:A member of the corp left today and it has really bummed me out. Name and shame
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May 15, 2016 15:02
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VideoGames posted:A member of the corp left today and it has really bummed me out. Don't be sad, VG. I just needed to move that alt into something else right now. I enjoyed being your orca guy and helping you find a place to mine. There's a whole legion of goons out there that are rooting for you and will help you if you ever need it.
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May 15, 2016 15:09
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 They're locked in here with me.
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May 15, 2016 15:20
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Is it true that GSF has recruited stunt flores
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May 15, 2016 15:30
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