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i hope theres an idol in this game
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May 14, 2016 20:50
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Baal posted:I'm looking forward to P5 being the Undertale of Japanese video games. I've never played Undertale, but someone linked me to this video the other day, and my brain kept trying to parse the character's name as "Metatron."
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May 14, 2016 20:56
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Junpei Hyde posted:Sweet, I get to date Matador
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May 14, 2016 21:01
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Manatee Cannon posted:the real villain was you, the player, for controlling their every move and stealing their freedom i'd legit be happy with a game that ended with the protagonist breaking the chains of the player and telling them to gently caress off oh wait MGS2 already happened
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May 15, 2016 01:29
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mandatory lesbian posted:i'd legit be happy with a game that ended with the protagonist breaking the chains of the player and telling them to gently caress off That's the ending of Contact for the DS too.
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May 15, 2016 01:31
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I think the design for Arsene is really cool, thats why I'm sad I'll probably end up fusing him to get a persona thats a literal pile of poo poo with better stats about an hour into the game the same dilemma that I had in P4 with Izanagi not Orpheus tho, Orpheus looks dumb
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May 15, 2016 02:07
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i was gonna make a comment that arsene might not be fused but instead have other personas fused into him, but then I remember the alice scene from the trailer. it would be cool if you can have persona that's basically a different persona but maintain the same model
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May 15, 2016 07:01
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In one of the trailers where he's using Arsene he has a lot more health than in most of the other gameplay which probably means it's later in the game. There's probably a lot of reasons why that doesn't actually indicate anything but hey
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May 15, 2016 07:22
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If anything, there's probably going to be a special end-game version of Arsene you can fuse.
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May 15, 2016 07:27
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Maybe they'll go for the Persona 2 thing and let you have Arsene and then like Arsene Custom for mid-game and an end-game Arsene
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May 15, 2016 07:32
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Or maybe they'll let Arsene keep leveling and unlocking new/better skills so he can keep up with your party members' personas. You'd still need other personas to be effective if Arsene has a weakness, no immunities, and only one flavour of attacks. (Especially now that there are more than 4 elements).
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May 15, 2016 09:58
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Deltasquid posted:Or maybe they'll let Arsene keep leveling and unlocking new/better skills so he can keep up with your party members' personas. You'd still need other personas to be effective if Arsene has a weakness, no immunities, and only one flavour of attacks. (Especially now that there are more than 4 elements). and then he evolves at level 55 or something
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May 15, 2016 10:34
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alcharagia posted:and then he evolves at level 55 or something What? ARSENE is evolving! ARSENE became Lupin III!
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May 15, 2016 10:36
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I should hope that in the years between Persona 4 and 5 Atlus figured out a solution to the problem of the MC's thematic Persona becoming obsolete halfway through the first dungeon while still giving the MC plenty of incentive to collect, fuse and use other Personas. It can't be that hard, can it?
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May 15, 2016 10:39
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Remove Persona switching 
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May 15, 2016 10:40
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we here at atlus have heard your requests to allow characters other than the protagonist to switch personas, and well, we have decided to follow these suggestions. every character except the protagonist will be able to switch personas
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May 15, 2016 10:54
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Cape Cod Crab Chip posted:I should hope that in the years between Persona 4 and 5 Atlus figured out a solution to the problem of the MC's thematic Persona becoming obsolete halfway through the first dungeon while still giving the MC plenty of incentive to collect, fuse and use other Personas. It can't be that hard, can it? They could do something along the lines of PQ's sub-Persona mechanic, although probably not exactly the same since it kinda made the game way easy.
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May 15, 2016 11:55
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Thuryl posted:They could do something along the lines of PQ's sub-Persona mechanic, although probably not exactly the same since it kinda made the game way easy. How does that one work, exactly, and what was the thing about it that made the game easy?
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May 15, 2016 12:06
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they should never take anything from PQ
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May 15, 2016 12:26
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Really, the thing that made PQ easy was the status ailment improving passive ability that also buffed instant-kill attacks.
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May 15, 2016 12:36
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Cape Cod Crab Chip posted:How does that one work, exactly, and what was the thing about it that made the game easy? Basically each character had two personae: a main one (which stayed the same throughout the game but gained new skills as you levelled up) and a sub-Persona, which you could switch in and out like the main character can in P3 and P4. Half of their skill slots were linked to the main Persona and the other half were linked to the sub-Persona. Also, each sub-Persona gave your character an extra pool of HP and SP that replenished automatically after battle. So for example, if a particular Persona gave you +100 HP and +50 SP, then the first 100 HP and 50 SP you lost in a particular battle would come out of the sub-Persona's pool first, and you wouldn't start losing any of your "real" HP and SP which carried over between fights until you'd depleted those amounts. It was kind of an interesting system, but when you combined it with how effective ailments and instant death were in that game, it meant you could spam multi-target instant death skills in every fight once you got them and get the SP back afterwards.
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May 15, 2016 12:41
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Cape Cod Crab Chip posted:How does that one work, exactly, and what was the thing about it that made the game easy? It basically gave the ability to Persona Switch to every character in the game, but their "base" persona, stats and resists stayed the same. So you could fill up gaps in their abilities very easily, and everyone became super good at everything if you did it right. The point of it was that you wouldn't be forced into switching your favorite characters out because you need a certain type of damage or ability, and you could keep your favorites for the whole game. The main issue was that really early on you could make a Sub Persona for Naoto that would boost light and dark attacks to very high levels so that they almost always instant killed. And Naoto automatically learned the AOE versions of these skills. And she was really fast so she'd usually be able to use them right away. And sub personas had separate MP Pools that regenerated at the end of every battle, so she could do this forever.
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May 15, 2016 12:42
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Tired Moritz posted:they should never take anything from PQ it's not like pq was mechanically a terrible game. it was just balanced poorly and had really bad dungeons
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May 15, 2016 12:44
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Manatee Cannon posted:it's not like pq was mechanically a terrible game. it was just balanced poorly and had really bad dungeons ...so it's mechanically a bad game?
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May 15, 2016 13:04
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how to make PQ a good game: give it Etrian Odyssey's skill system binds
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May 15, 2016 13:05
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Tired Moritz posted:...so it's mechanically a bad game? no? the combat is fine, they just didn't balance status effects well
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May 15, 2016 13:10
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I don't see how that makes the combat fine if you can just make it completely pointless by giving naoto a persona skill, which isn't very hard.
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May 15, 2016 13:22
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You can have good mechanics that are overshadowed by poor balance.
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May 15, 2016 13:42
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I'm playing Persona 2 (EP first because I'm a weirdo). Is the demon negotiations/persona summoning system as tedious as it seems? I'm just now beginning to actually want to summon new personas, and I'm looking at the amount of cards required for them and it does not seem very accessibly priced. To summon like anything at all, the weakest thing I'm able, it looks like I'd have to find a good spot to encounter a single type of enemy, run around until I do, spam negotiations until they give me the poo poo, and repeat this about five-six times. Increase this number as appropriate for higher level guys which cost like 500 cards. And that's not even getting into the free tarot which require setting up the contracts first and then doing some more farming. I hear the game can actually be pretty much beaten with the starting personas, but I don't want to have to do that, that's boring. I'm just hoping this isn't even more boring because of farming. You know, I don't think I've liked demon negotiations in any SMT game. It's probably not going anywhere (it's in SMT4 Final, right?) because of tradition but I really wouldn't mind if it got straight up thrown into the garbage.
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May 15, 2016 14:19
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If I remember right I did nothing but free tarots, to the point where I eventually had 999 of them and couldn't get any more. By juggling getting free tarots and normal battles, you can more or less stay in a dungeon forever while both leveling up and getting cards because you get SP back as you run around.
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May 15, 2016 14:21
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what if pq did the thing apocalypse is doing with light and dark, and made them normally deal damage and only be instant kills when you're boosted?Tired Moritz posted:how to make PQ a good game: it had binds, it's just that panic was better in almost every situation.
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May 15, 2016 15:19
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it had binds? I can't remember this at all.
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May 15, 2016 15:21
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Manatee Cannon posted:no? the combat is fine, they just didn't balance status effects well It does have other serious balance issues even beyond that. Direct-damage magic is badly overpriced and underpowered compared to physical skills, and gets worse as the game goes on. The core of the system has some good ideas, but skill costs and effectiveness really needed to be rebalanced from scratch. Reworking enemy resistances and weaknesses would have helped too: part of the issue with status effects is that almost nothing is immune to any of them, and almost all non-boss enemies are susceptible to at least one kind of instant death.
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May 15, 2016 15:23
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Ah, yeah, I can see how that would be practically impossible to balance without letting something slip through. Still, just a bit of time in the idea lab and I'm sure someone could come up with a useable idea. I mean, with only the MC being able to Persona switch (presumably) it wouldn't be all that hard, say, to have Arsene's level be tied directly to the MC's like everyone else, with Persona xp going to the currently equipped Persona, or last equipped if Arsene's in use. While we're wishing upon a star, I do hope the presence of Gun, Nuclear and Gravity (I think? I never touched any pre-PS2 title) means it won't be too easy to make god Personas that resist everything. If you can still pass down any skill you choose, then at least there being more properties should make it at least a little harder to get them all on the same Persona, though if we're REALLY wishing for what will never happen then I would wish that Personas get two or three resistances, tops. As good as Persona switching makes the MC in Persona games, you could honestly go pretty far with just fusing good ol' Yoshitsune with his immunity to three elements including the omnipresent Physical and a resistance on top of that because why not.
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May 15, 2016 15:29
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I think the symbol was Nerve, not Gravity.
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May 15, 2016 15:47
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Thuryl posted:It does have other serious balance issues even beyond that. Direct-damage magic is badly overpriced and underpowered compared to physical skills, and gets worse as the game goes on. The core of the system has some good ideas, but skill costs and effectiveness really needed to be rebalanced from scratch. Reworking enemy resistances and weaknesses would have helped too: part of the issue with status effects is that almost nothing is immune to any of them, and almost all non-boss enemies are susceptible to at least one kind of instant death.  Persona Q always struck me as a game that could probably be patched or even romhacked to have pretty solid gameplay using only a shitload of numbers and weakness tweaks. I still think they had all the right ingredients but inexplicable bad design decisions kept it from coming together
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May 15, 2016 17:17
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No Mods No Masters posted:I still think they had all the right ingredients but inexplicable bad design decisions kept it from coming together It's totally explicable. They just put off the (hard, boring, time-consuming) rebalancing step of the design process and when there was a time crunch it went out the window.
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May 15, 2016 17:25
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no one playtest enough to realize that naoto broke the game apparently.
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May 15, 2016 17:27
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Ratoslov posted:It's totally explicable. They just put off the (hard, boring, time-consuming) rebalancing step of the design process and when there was a time crunch it went out the window. I assume the gameplay side was handled by the Etrian people? I'm only a dabbler in that series and I know those games have a lot of broken/useless poo poo at the margins, but I feel like by reputation nothing they did before or after is top to bottom busted like PQ is. Inexplicable is probably the wrong word though yeah, just a big time let down 
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May 15, 2016 17:40
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No Mods No Masters posted:
Funnily enough, from what I've seen by digging through its data, the game is essentially a ROM hack of EO4 in a sense. A lot of mechanics and stuff from it are in PQ. Though the guy who directed EO4 also directed PQ, so that's probably a big reason why.  No Mods No Masters posted:I assume the gameplay side was handled by the Etrian people? I'm only a dabbler in that series and I know those games have a lot of broken/useless poo poo at the margins, but I feel like by reputation nothing they did before or after is top to bottom busted like PQ is. Inexplicable is probably the wrong word though yeah, just a big time let down It was. Maybe they were told to make the game easier for the Persona audience. I mean for one thing, you're always reminded if you're missing them item that teleports you out of a dungeon instantly if you try to go into a dungeon without one of those. Where in the EO series, the lack of a reminder is considered to be a feature by the devs. Another example would be Impure Reach. What it does is as long as the enemy in question isn't immune to an ailment or some form of instant death, the skill that tries to inflict those will always have at least a 30% chance of landing. The same passive exists in the EO series, only it's half as powerful.
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May 15, 2016 19:22
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