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I saw the movies first then read the manga and honestly I didn't miss much. The manga is a little more heavy handed on the Griffen foreshadowing I guess. Edit: I guess you miss guts childhood but that doesn't add that much.
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May 14, 2016 03:35
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CharlestheHammer posted:Edit: I guess you miss guts childhood but that doesn't add that much. Aside from forming a character arc and shaping his personality, sure, not missing much. Same with Bonfire of Dreams, it's just spelling out what he feels like he's missing and his motivation for leaving, nothing important. Really all of the Golden Age arc is just building up to the twist, so save yourself some time and skip to that part, you're not missing much of anything really. I do honestly like the movies, but there's no denying that they're the cliffnotes version of events.
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May 14, 2016 07:36
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Honestly his childhood doesn't inform his character that much. Besides the touching thing which I don't give a poo poo about. It does show why he is a merc but honestly that isn't info that is needed. Though a lot of the stuff you all claim is vital really isn't.
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May 14, 2016 07:41
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CharlestheHammer posted:The manga is a little more heavy handed on the Griffen foreshadowing I guess. Well, because it's not intended to be a surprise in the manga. You're basically explicitly told what the deal is immediately before the Golden Age flashback starts. quote:Edit: I guess you miss guts childhood but that doesn't add that much. It's not a HUGE deal, I suppose, but it's pretty vital to understanding what makes Guts tick. The deep characterization is what puts Berserk above the rest of the breadth of Howard-clone fantasy.
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May 14, 2016 08:11
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I mean the original anime also skipped a ton of stuff from the Golden Age arc, like Wyald or Silat and his crew. And the Skull Knight!
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May 14, 2016 09:03
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CharlestheHammer posted:Honestly his childhood doesn't inform his character that much. Besides the touching thing which I don't give a poo poo about. his childhood is a huge and extremely important part of forming guts' character as well as being an important plot beat that informs many of the larger themes of the story. not really sure how you could read through the whole story and come away feeling like guts' childhood isn't that important
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May 14, 2016 12:06
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I don't read Berserk for the "story" really... It's about the atmosphere mostly, and none of the animated versions come close to capturing the feeling of the manga.
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May 14, 2016 12:10
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I guess it's a difference between if you read a story just to see what happens next or for the setting, atmosphere, etc. or if you read it for characterization and a thematic base. thats not a shot against either one, but if you were reading it to see what happens next and because you like the setting then yeah his childhood could easily be cut and it wouldn't affect your enjoyment. if you're reading it for the latter then you miss out on the internal motivations for many of guts' actions plus the intended parallel between how guts' childhood and relationship with his father figure mirrors the relationship that guts has with his own child
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May 14, 2016 12:34
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apropos to nothing posted:his childhood is a huge and extremely important part of forming guts' character as well as being an important plot beat that informs many of the larger themes of the story. not really sure how you could read through the whole story and come away feeling like guts' childhood isn't that important You all keep saying that but saying a thing doesn't make it true. Also the movies fixed that terrible fortress capture segment which was nice.
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May 14, 2016 16:05
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CharlestheHammer posted:You all keep saying that but saying a thing doesn't make it true. no but the fact that guts has constant nightmares about his childhood does. that miura clearly means to make guts' current situation with his family mirror exactly the situation of guts' father figure gambino does. that casca and guts' relationship is built in large part on their shared history of being victims of sexual violence does. the fact that guts' entire motivation for leaving the hawks comes in large part from seeing parts of his childhood self in a person he kills (adonis). like yes you can have the story without showing his childhood but it definitely hurts his characterization and I feel like if that's not apparent to you then you're reading books wrong
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May 14, 2016 17:58
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apropos to nothing posted:the fact that guts' entire motivation for leaving the hawks comes in large part from seeing parts of his childhood self in a person he kills (adonis). Are you sure about this? It has been a while but I remember always thinking that the reason that Guts left was hearing the bonfire of dreams -speech. Knowing that he could never be Griffiths equal if he had no reason of his own for living.
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May 14, 2016 18:50
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the two events happen in tandem. guts kills adonis without realizing who it is. this comes right after he sees him training with his dad and it reminds guts of his childhood. shortly after he passes out in the sewer and has a dream in which he, as zodd, kills his childhood self and his father. he then goes on to hear griffiths speech about friends and dreams. he's basically turned himself into a monster to help his friend griffith only to realize that griffith doesnt even consider him a friend. similar to how he turns himself into a ruthless mercenary all for gambinos approval and love, only for gambino to betray him.
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May 14, 2016 19:23
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*checks thread*Everyone posted:REALLY strong opinions on things I do not care about. Whelp. I guess Miura is still playing idol games. I'm going back to bed. Someone wake me when there's a new chapter. Rip Van Winkle me.
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May 14, 2016 19:37
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That makes sense. I never noticed the parallel.
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May 14, 2016 19:53
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The Berserk manga is unquestionably great, but it's just so dense in terms of both story, characterization and theme that almost any adaptation will have to introduce cuts, omissions and changes or otherwise merely reach a full stop at some point. TV series and OVAs dedicated to specific arcs are probably the safest alternatives, but adapting the whole work is going to take many years. Which means the manga will always remain the richest version of the story, no doubt, but you can still enjoy the simplified versions on a comparatively more superficial yet still valid level.
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May 14, 2016 20:34
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dogsicle posted:the answer is always to re-read the manga while playing the anime ost as background music. We should do this and then reconvene.
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May 14, 2016 21:17
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apropos to nothing posted:I guess it's a difference between if you read a story just to see what happens next or for the setting, atmosphere, etc. or if you read it for characterization and a thematic base. thats not a shot against either one, but if you were reading it to see what happens next and because you like the setting then yeah his childhood could easily be cut and it wouldn't affect your enjoyment. if you're reading it for the latter then you miss out on the internal motivations for many of guts' actions plus the intended parallel between how guts' childhood and relationship with his father figure mirrors the relationship that guts has with his own child well, i read stories for the stories, which is why i dont skip the beginnings of the stories
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May 14, 2016 22:15
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I read the story for character and story and I am glad the movie cut all the unnecessary poo poo. Honestly there is more it could have cut if we are being real. They kept a lot of the clunky dialog, as an example.
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May 15, 2016 01:33
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CharlestheHammer posted:I read the story for character and story and I am glad the movie cut all the unnecessary poo poo. wow you are the worst loving poster ever anyway Berserk is really good and the movies are really not good precisely because they make rob the source material of what separates it from the chaff. Berserk isn't elevated by cool sword fights and amazing art (though those obviously do not hurt a bit) because you can find that kind of stuff in all sorts of poo poo that doesn't get the same recognition for greatness that Berserk does. Berserk is elevated by a master class in oppressive atmosphere and compelling characters, and, surprise, when you cut that "unnecessary" content the story suffers if what you're saying is "I don't like it when there's nobody on-screen literally dying/expositing" then that's fine, but don't pretend like this is anything other than the worst opinion in the world
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May 15, 2016 06:31
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I do like the atmosphere, I wish Guts himself was more interesting. I like Casca and was sad she went the way she did. I am only like 19 volumes in but Gutz can not carry the book by himself.
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May 15, 2016 06:39
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CharlestheHammer posted:I do like the atmosphere, I wish Guts himself was more interesting. I like Casca and was sad she went the way she did. I am only like 19 volumes in but Gutz can not carry the book by himself. Holy poo poo how is Guts not an interesting character? Like, I have such a terrible memory that I've forgotten 2/3 of the poo poo that's happened to him / he's done and I STILL remember that he's an interesting and compelling character. On that note, maybe I should re-read Berserk. And not ask questions of a moron.
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May 15, 2016 06:44
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Rodenthar Drothman posted:Holy poo poo how is Guts not an interesting character? Like, I have such a terrible memory that I've forgotten 2/3 of the poo poo that's happened to him / he's done and I STILL remember that he's an interesting and compelling character. He's rear end deep in the Black Swordsman arc and Guts is still refusing to interact with anyone he can't stab.
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May 15, 2016 06:47
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dis astranagant posted:He's rear end deep in the Black Swordsman arc and Guts is still refusing to interact with anyone he can't stab. Yeah I know why they are having him do that but man it makes reading it tedious. Though I know he begins to pick up a party soon so maybe it will be better when he has people to bounce off of. Also I laugh that everyone loves him despite him having no redeeming qualities at this point.
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May 15, 2016 06:51
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dis astranagant posted:He's rear end deep in the Black Swordsman arc and Guts is still refusing to interact with anyone he can't stab. I haven't read in a while and forget most of it too but IIRC the Black Swordsman arc is the "Guts is an rear end in a top hat" arc which is there to set up his journey of becoming less of an rear end in a top hat in the subsequent arcs.
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May 15, 2016 06:59
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dis astranagant posted:He's rear end deep in the Black Swordsman arc and Guts is still refusing to interact with anyone he can't stab. Ah, okay, I can see that.
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May 15, 2016 07:00
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Liquid Dinosaur posted:I haven't read in a while and forget most of it too but IIRC the Black Swordsman arc is the "Guts is an rear end in a top hat" arc which is there to set up his journey of becoming less of an rear end in a top hat in the subsequent arcs. It is, but it goes on for 10 books and I can see it wearing on someone.
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May 15, 2016 07:01
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The TV show cut a few things like Wylad and the 4 assassins after Griffith was rescued. I think the 4 assassins were fluff and only showcased Pippen so it wasn't necessary. Wylad would have given away the Eclipse, so his removal worked for the better. Silat was cut but at that point in the story, he was irrelevant. That scene was cool only because Silat came back like a million chapters later to play a role but he was forgotten all the way up until Ganishka.
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May 15, 2016 11:49
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Wyald was a mistake and his removal was an improvement.
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May 15, 2016 11:59
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The stuff the TV anime cut was to make it more a self contained coherent story, albeit one with a very open ending The stuff the movie cut was... I dunno, budget restrictions? It's not runtime, because the first one wasn't even 90 minutes long. Maybe they felt scenes of CG soldiers clashing together unconvincingly was more important?
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May 15, 2016 12:26
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The worst movie change was no Zodd throwing the sword, because it's an awesome moment that isn't just removed but is actually changed for the worse.
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May 15, 2016 13:04
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I kind of prefer the cartoon version of that arc since it doesn't have like a dozen detailed rape scenes that don't add anything except saying the bad guys are bad. It does keep most of the dark stuff that matter.
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May 15, 2016 13:10
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wyald was awesome because he seems huge amd unbeatable and then zodd shows up
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May 15, 2016 16:12
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dogsicle posted:the answer is always to re-read the manga while playing the anime ost as background music.
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May 15, 2016 19:40
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Crunchyroll just posted on Facebook that the anime starts in 6 weeks. Also my prediction is it'll start with volume 14, through maybe the first episode will be him meeting Puck. And then in 26 episodes it'll go through the Lost Children and Tower of Conviction Arc, ending with Griffith's rebirth at the end. That would be a nice reflection to the first series which also ended with a Griffith transformation and totally changed the status quo. Ccs fucked around with this message at 01:29 on May 17, 2016 |
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May 16, 2016 04:09
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I've always been split on Wyald. On the one hand, he's always kinda struck me as a kind of tryhard grimdark villain, in a way a lot of the other darker elements of the series haven't (with a few other notable exceptions like the trolls). The world of Berserk's always been pretty grim, but its darkness usually has a sort of weight to it. Then you've got Wyald who rapes, murders, and pillages like he's got some daily quota to fulfill, all the while showboating like a rock star. He feels like the kind of chaotic evil character an edgy teenager would write into their story to establish how "Mature" the setting is. On the other hand, the pursuit and ensuing battle were tense and for the most part a well-realized climax to Griffith's escape, and Wyald's thoroughly hateable and monstrous nature goes a ways towards establishing him as a threat beyond a lot of the other threats our heroes have faced. His transformation serves as a sign that the tone of the story is about to change, his defeat is oh so sweet, and his true form being a used-up old man has always felt oddly poignant to me despite what a piece of garbage he was.
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May 17, 2016 11:04
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Wyald was cool. It was a weird place in the story and he was one of the one dimensional demons. It is a relief that he wasn't dragged out for maximize edge lord effect "I'm evil but I'm sad". That's what hurts a lot of stories with emotional focuses because they give everything emotions. Maybe the bad guy just likes being bad because its fun, not because he didn't get enough hugs or dad was hit by a truck on Christmas.
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May 17, 2016 14:45
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Wyald's character being totally and irredeemably evil was necessary for the story at that point in time, both to foreshadow the insanity of the eclipse and to draw a line between his character and the "bad" humans we had seen so much of up to that point. The comparison was supposed to show that humans have reasons for doing evil, demons just are evil and are incapable of doing anything that isn't directly harming humans. His character was essential to showing that the cruel world was about to get a lot worse as a lead up to the eclipse. I'm still reading this series for the first time though, and yea trolls seem to be overkill in making the world as dark as possible. Wyald worked as a dark contrast to the grey morals of everyone else, but by now I'm just getting brutality fatigue.
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May 17, 2016 16:12
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Wild is bad rear end.
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May 17, 2016 16:54
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The trolls are pretty hosed up but it's still one of my favourite arcs because of the stuff with the witch and Silke/Schierke/whatever. Then there's the armour and the skull knight being cool. The stuff with ganishka is more hosed up than wyald and the trolls though.
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May 17, 2016 18:10
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all of berserk is extremely hosed up and extremely good
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May 18, 2016 01:56
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