|
Mocking Bird posted:I mean secondhand children (a phrase that pained me to write) really are a thrifty alternative since they can come to you already school aged with no daycare needs, and the state provides a stipend for their care and adoption assistance if you adopt. Yeah but making my own kids is free and a fun weekend activity! Okay I'll stop now
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 03:04
|
|
My 16 year old just destroyed her hand me down iPhone 5C and I'm always stunned to see her classmates with brand new iPhones gouged and bashed to bits.
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 04:39 |
|
|
SixNineSoFine posted:Re: Tesla and tax fraud chat Eh, the IRS rules concerning timeliness of withholding for W2 income are quite generous. Basically as long as you get sqaure by Dec 31 and don't owe under-withholding penalties for the year they don't care how uneven the actual withholding was. I used to do something similar back when bank accounts paid real interest and deferring most of my withholding until Nov/Dec netted me a few hundred dollars a year.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 03:07
|
|
|
Devian666 posted:I didn't have a whole lot when I was a kid as we didn't have a lot of money. Most of the money went on living. It's not so much that parents are necessarily spending more on their kids as a lot of things are cheaper in real terms. Although mobile gadgets didn't exist on the scale or cost that exists today, and it was a lot more difficult to get loans. BEHOLD: MY CAPE posted:On the other hand, the original Macintosh base model cost $2,495 in 1984 dollars or about $5,700 in 2016 dollars. A modest size color television and an original Atari 2600 console cost about $1200 in 1977 or $4700 in 2016 plus games. Technology has gotten so much less expensive and more accessible since you were a child that a family spending $1000 or whatever to give their three children their own retinal display wireless space gizmos to play with is just a slightly obnoxious luxury to you. melon cat fucked around with this message at 15:08 on May 16, 2016 |
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 14:56
|
|
|
I just can't fathom the fact that many parents now think it's normal to give each kid who's like 8 or so a tablet and each kid who's 12 or so a loving smartphone with a data plan. There's a great coup for marketing that surpasses diamond engagement rings.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 15:03
|
|
|
melon cat posted:Buying three iPads for your kids isn't exactly what I'd call cheap. Sure, this type of technology is cheaper than the '80s, but $600 per device is nothing to scoff at, and since you're given it to kids they will break it at least once. It's also the new gameboy, which every kid my age owned every version of, and it has educational apps on it so it's the new MathBlaster, and it's how they watch stuff so it's the new "tiny VCR/TV combo thing" kids my age had in their room, and it's how they communicate with their friends, and... Like yeah I love ragin' about spoiled kids too but what a tablet does is what like 8 different things I owned when I was a kid did and then some, and if your kids don't have at least a lovely android they're going to grow up weird and totally out of touch with the rest of their generation  Specifically iPads for each kid is still stupid as hell though, but "a tablet" per kid is perfectly reasonable imo.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 15:09
|
|
|
Parallel Paraplegic posted:Psh why would I want to get a used one though Have to change the branding from "used" to "reconditioned." That'll get more traction.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 15:12
|
|
|
quote:It's also the new gameboy, which every kid my age owned every version of, and it has educational apps on it so it's the new MathBlaster, and it's how they watch stuff so it's the new "tiny VCR/TV combo thing" kids my age had in their room, and it's how they communicate with their friends, and... What the hell is mathblaster? I've never heard of that and I grew up in the 80s. If it's just educational games, those can still be played on the PC that the family already owns for other practical reasons. Kids didn't each have their own TV VCR combo unless they were rich. And Gameboys retailed for the equivalent of $175 in 2016 dollars. iPads are a lot more expensive, especially if they have a data plan. However you slice it, people spend a lot more on stupid poo poo for their kids nowadays. Especially because they usually have a smartphone in addition to a tablet. Like I get it's useful, but one for every kid is a bit much, and especially buying them a smartphone too is straight up stupid. They're just going to break it. Adults break and lose their phones and tablets all the time, and kids are even dumber and less thoughtful.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 15:17
|
|
|
Nail Rat posted:What the hell is mathblaster? I've never heard of that and I grew up in the 80s. If it's just educational games, those can still be played on the PC that the family already owns for other practical reasons. Yeah it's educational games, and I'm sure someone still makes them for PC, but all the ones i've seen in the last few years were for tablet because, well, every kid has a tablet. Nail Rat posted:Kids didn't each have their own TV VCR combo unless they were rich. I don't know, I was upper middle class and didn't have one, but my significantly less well-off friends all did. I know that's purely anecdotal but they really never seemed like a "rich kids only" kind of thing, at least in the 90's Nail Rat posted:And Gameboys retailed for the equivalent of $175 in 2016 dollars. iPads are a lot more expensive, especially if they have a data plan. However you slice it, people spend a lot more on stupid poo poo for their kids nowadays. Especially because they usually have a smartphone in addition to a tablet. Like I said, iPads are a dumb purchase, but "a tablet" is not, you can easily get a good android tablet for way less than $600.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 15:21
|
|
|
Hell, around christmas you could get a 7 inch fire tablet for $35. A large number of kids i know got those, pretty good bang for your buck,
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 15:23
|
|
|
Yeah, there's nothing wrong with that. But the number of people who live paycheck to paycheck and still have 2-4 kids with both an iPad and iPhone is ridiculous.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 15:25
|
|
|
I hear poor people have televisions and dishwashers!
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 15:26
|
|
|
cowofwar posted:I hear poor people have televisions and dishwashers! I'm not talking about poor people, just people who spend everything they have. The amount of money spent on devices by people in general nowadays is stupid, but clearly you disagree so fine. Example: my brother in law buys his kids iPads and iPhones with dataplans, it seems every year at Christmas. Not the only gifts they get. Still hitting up everyone in the family to "invest" (i.e. loan) in his business purchasing a new facility. He makes hundreds of thousands a year. Spends it all. Nail Rat fucked around with this message at 15:36 on May 16, 2016 |
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 15:33
|
|
|
Some kids grew up with horses, too. Nowadays they're everywhere though. I mean, all of you have to know at least one household where every kid has their own horse. Ridiculous, I say!
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 15:35
|
|
|
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2016/05/16/the-cheap-ticket-into-the-elite-class/ Money Mustache goes into that article posted a few weeks agoish: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/05/my-secret-shame/476415/ And goes into "how expensive are kids" which is being talked about right now.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 15:36
|
|
|
mustache guy is so tiresome
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 15:41
|
|
|
Jesus christ is he serious? My eyes just bled.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 15:49
|
|
|
KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:mustache guy is so tiresome And move to one of a few specific rural-ish areas that are cheap and let you bike everywhere and that also has jobs in your field. Surely everyone can do that, right? Right? (Remember, nature is better than cities because MMM says so, even though cities tend to be a shitload more conductive to not owning a car.) Haifisch fucked around with this message at 16:01 on May 16, 2016 |
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 15:55
|
|
|
Knyteguy posted:http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2016/05/16/the-cheap-ticket-into-the-elite-class/ Oh dear sweet jesus on a caramel apple. This guy is such a horse's rear end.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 15:58
|
|
|
KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:mustache guy is so tiresome Yeah he really is. I get that he's just trying to keep his website alive and brand going but just because the guy figured out how to retire early doesn't mean he's this immediate expert on basically everything else. I also think it's totally fine to buy kids iPads or tablets. Put it in one of those gigantic cases and kids can basically drop it off a building and it will be just fine. The amount of entertainment and education that can be wrangled out of those things is basically limitless. Sure, they can have a tendency to be digital babysitters, but that's not any fault of the device itself. Yeah, getting new ones every year and buying fancy per-device data plans is probably dumb but as a one time expense for a few years of use? Constant access to computers and similar technology is a gigantic component of what got me to where I am today and I'm sure it's the same with a vast majority of people working in high(ish) tech.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 16:03
|
|
|
Haifisch posted:You too can retire early if you manage to start a big blog that provides income after you 'retire'. I don't think he needs that money unless he lies about his spending. However, to do it as young as he did it, you have to not only be making six figures before age 30, but you need to have a spouse who's doing that too. It's lucky for him that his wife a) happened to be a very successful tech nerd as well and b) was completely onboard with the whole frugality thing. He had some good things to say, but they're done and it's been a long time since he said anything interesting. At least the living a fi guy (who was more entertaining and more reasonable about stuff) admitted he's pretty much done.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 16:08
|
|
|
Yeah I'm glad my mom didn't take y'all's advice and got me that commodore 64 as a child. Good investment.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 16:09
|
|
|
slap me silly posted:Oh dear sweet jesus on a caramel apple. This guy is such a horse's rear end.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 16:10
|
|
|
Barry posted:Constant access to computers and similar technology is a gigantic component of what got me to where I am today and I'm sure it's the same with a vast majority of people working in high(ish) tech. Yuuup. Had I not been all over BASIC on the Apple IIe back in my childhood, I would not be the man I am today
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 16:14
|
|
|
"It's not hard, just make sure your kids are unusually good with computers!"
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 16:18
|
|
|
gently caress tablets, hoverboards are the best waste of money for kids. I think I've mentioned them already, but we have some friends who moved to a fancier school district and are now stuck in that loop where their kids are competing with richer children for the most inane poo poo. For Christmas they bought 4 hoverboards. By the second week of January all but one was busted. 2 died typical hoverboard-related battery deaths. The 3rd snapped in half when two kids rode on it at the same time. At least with tablets and phones, enough people have perfectly usable older ones that you can hand them down instead of buying new ones. The kid at the bottom ends up with a treasure trove of half-obsolete tech. My youngest has a iPhone 5c, iPad 2, and Amazon Fire tablet on her nightstand.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 16:23
|
|
|
On the plus side, if you don't like your kid, the "hoverboard" might burst into flames and teach them a lesson.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 16:25
|
|
|
All the hoverboards I have seen in use have broken
Switchback fucked around with this message at 16:29 on May 16, 2016 |
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 16:27
|
|
|
I learned about computers because I heard there was a way to play video games for free. That introduced me to modems and BBSes, playing around with cracks and cheats introduced me to hex editors and scripting... worked for me!
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 16:29
|
|
|
I was at an art gallery open house a few days ago which had a few booths selling things - one of them was for a company called "pyramids theme" which sells a kit that teaches you to draw. This kit includes stencils you can use at first to trace out other people's drawings (along with their stencilled signatures) which you can sell to friends and family. Once you improve, you can begin creating your own stencils which other artists can draw to then sell to their friends and family. Also, he recommended drawing in a public place like starbucks so people will ask about your stencilling and you can sell them a packet. The stencil they showcased showed pyramids. Given the gallery had lots of performance art, and the company's name, was this BWM? Or an insightful and lacerating invective into the human conditions of BWM through the medium of gallery booth?
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 16:45
|
|
|
Bhodi posted:I learned about computers because I heard there was a way to play video games for free. That introduced me to modems and BBSes, playing around with cracks and cheats introduced me to hex editors and scripting... worked for me! I did this back in like.. 1998 trying to crack no$gmb so i could play pokemon on the computer. I was like 10 or 11 at the time and never seriously used computers before. You can imagine how that kind of kick started the whole science and engineering thing for me. You ain't gonna learn poo poo from a tablet though. My kids are getting computers.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 16:45
|
|
|
Star War Sex Parrot posted:But Knyteguy loves him so much Kind of? He's had very good stuff to say, and he opened my eyes to things I never thought possible. That said he gets kind of hippy sometimes. However I don't necessarily disagree that adding some nature into our lives is a bad thing, and there are theories and studies that exposure to nature (how much?) could affect our abilities of self control, concentration, and increase our impedance to impulsive actions (generally): http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/280/1773/20132295.full His writing, to me, also helps "beat" the status quo where people go broke and lose their house sending their kids to private school (my grandparents with their 6 kids) because they think that's the only way to offer their kids a successful start. Despite all his words in all of his articles, the message to me (intended or not) is: get out of debt, save as much money as you can for your situation, and maybe you can live the life you want to eventually. I wasn't advocating the article's message at all though, and I'm still not. I posted that because of its relation to current and recent discussion, and I saw it posted in Facebook. I feel like I've gotten what I can out of his writing personally.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 16:55
|
|
|
MMM for me is like Dave Ramsey. Good suggestions and a general financially conservative mindset, with a lot of stuff to just ignore. It opens the door for improving your finances, which is great, but once you get into their particular way of doing things, it gets to be too preachy.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 17:15
|
|
|
I definitely like the message to try to drive cars less and walk/bike/use public transit more, for example, but I'm never hitching a trailer up to a bike instead of using a car to move big things. Sorry, dude. Have fun in crazytown.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 17:30
|
|
|
I've found MMM useful to keep a certain mindset fresh in my mind. It's so easy to let your lifestyle swell as you earn more - and it feels like you deserve it, since you're working harder/getting promotions/overtime etc. There's a lot of societal expectations that are less feasible now than they've been in the past - at what age are you "supposed" to have your own place? Buy a home? Have children? Where I live in the Bay Area it's not uncommon to see two couples in their late twenties-early thirties splitting a two bedroom apartment. And how much space does a family really need? How much car? And the current topic of conversation, how many devices? He's a total tool about some of these things but at least it makes me self reflective (and I mostly read old articles). I think without this thread and reading about FI I would still be digging a hole instead of building up. It's hilarious to me how I thought I'd have more money to spend on dumb poo poo as a 27 year old with a "real job" when in reality I have less than ever because of my newfound long term goals. I do miss getting expensive tattoos.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 17:37
|
|
|
Bhodi posted:"It's not hard, just make sure your kids are unusually good with computers!" More like make your kids unusually good at whatever high-demand low-supply specialized remunerative career path will exist when they leave college.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 19:14
|
|
|
Nail Rat posted:It's lucky for him that his wife a) happened to be a very successful tech nerd as well and b) was completely onboard with the whole frugality thing. How is this luck? In most cases you can choose who you marry. I also married a very successful tech nerd who is completely onboard with the whole frugality thing. It was not luck, or an accident. It's even easier if you wait until your late 20s or 30s to get married. And while a lot of MMM's recent posts have been cringeworthy or outright shilling for a sponsor, "help your kid become knowledgable about computers" is good advice, and teaching them to find their own answers on the internet is even better advice. When you solve a problem you're having yourself you internalize the material better. He's also completely right that there is a big difference between basic knowledge and "advanced" or "in-depth" knowledge, and that knowing even a little more more than average will set you up for success. Ignoring coding entirely, stuff like mastering Excel/Google Sheets formulas is simple enough to teach a kid through examples relevant to their lives, and is a powerful tool that a lot of adults these days simply don't have in their arsenal. The digital world is critically important to our everyday lives. You can passively consume it, or you can become a literal wizard bending electrons to your will.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 19:57
|
|
|
Inverse Icarus posted:How is this luck? In most cases you can choose who you marry. The number of women who make six figures in technology jobs is very small. The number of people who make six figures and are onboard with frugality is even smaller than that. Even if you know all the available women like that, marrying one isn't necessarily easy. They met very young and before they'd really settled into the frugality thing according to his early posts, so yes, it's luck that she came around to it. If you actually literally married her after she was making six figures and had a talk about frugality beforehand, it's very different than his situation. Also, nice bootstraps. Yes, there's some luck involved in everyone's success. You and I stacked things in our favor by picking the right major, but there's still some luck involved. Nail Rat fucked around with this message at 20:14 on May 16, 2016 |
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 20:11
|
|
|
Finding people into frugality isn't hard compared to those that are consistent about it. Wife will shop at TJ Maxx and Marshall's but have trouble figuring out how to save $500 / mo by eating out 12 meals less or by not buying another pair of shoes to add to the 50+ shoe collection or another pair of panties to the never-ending underwear collection. Trying to do budgeting with her is like trying to give a kid an allowance so they can learn to budget and save for goals. The problems tend start for people with some means these days when you don't have any financial goals like "we need $200k cash for a down payment on a house" or "we need to save $n for our kid's college expenses" when you've given up on home ownership or decided against children. When people really are addicted to their stuff (or the action of buying something), it's not easy for them to give up these things in favor of saving for retirement because they're just not giving a drat about the consequences of the habit. You can't reason with addictions normally - it is an irrational thing to begin with. It's why getting people in financial shape is not that different than getting lifelong slobs to exercise and eat healthy - for every success story, there's going to be 20+ failures / false starts, and maybe 4 will just die because it was too late. The good news is that financial wellness is a lot easier to maintain than extreme weight loss though, sadly. I've always said I'd rather be a rich and miserable person than a poor and miserable person since I've been like 10 though
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 22:11
|
|
|
You're not off the mark but you do realize that underwear wears out, right? And you have to dress the part for work, unfortunately more so for women. Not wearing the same shoes every day actually makes them last way longer.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 22:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 04:39 |
|
|
Men wear out underwear far slower than women do, but there's a difference between buying maybe 10 pairs of panties and keeping 2-3 entire dresser drawers completely packed and are getting worn out from snagging on rails just for panties. If you're on maybe $23k / yr income and you're not exactly in a customer / public facing job (nor could it lead to such a job) I can't think of a legitimate reason for women (or men) to wear "professional" clothes other than "my employer / job loving sucks." I can understand reasonable expenses under maybe a grand for most jobs even down to tools for handy men and so forth, but $600 / yr on underwear when you make near minimum wage is BWM no matter how many or how nice or not the pairs of underwear are.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 23:08
|
|