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TetsuoTW posted:I like that the problem is apparently a question of the circumstances of the case and whether they warrant a death sentence and not whether death should even be a sentence. I might not agree that it should, but I can accept the idea that if there's any case it could be applied in, it might be this one. But even then I can't see how you would set up the law to institutionalize "well this time we really really know he's guilty" and keep it abuse-proof.
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May 16, 2016 16:12
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Please stop quoting Pandemonium. I put him on ignore for a reason.
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May 16, 2016 16:12
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Chantilly Say posted:The next time I'm back home and somebody cuts me off in traffic? poo poo, they'd better get ready to meet my friend Mr. Smith & Wesson. Get bent! I know you're trying to be all cute and funny but gently caress off with your comparing stabbing and killing people to cutting people off in traffic. It makes you look dumb as gently caress.
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May 16, 2016 16:15
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Moon slayer is an idiot who thought he was hot poo poo copy editing at a newspaper in Taiwan until they unceremoniously fired his rear end for no reason. Please quote this someone!
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May 16, 2016 16:18
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Would you say that he can get bent?
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May 16, 2016 16:20
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Ignore list is some weakass poo poo especially when Panda's opinions and the controversy they cause are pretty much the lifeblood of this thread.
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May 16, 2016 16:30
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^ agreedPandemonium posted:Moon slayer is an idiot who thought he was hot poo poo copy editing at a newspaper in Taiwan until they unceremoniously fired his rear end for no reason. Please quote this someone! I'll quote this because you asked nicely. also because despite his being fired, you think you're hot poo poo for making ESL worksheets, and you are in denial about being in the ESL community for the entirety of your time in Taiwan Pandemonium posted:PS please stop applying your home country's standards to Taiwan. This isn't Canada, USA, England, or wherever you are from. It's super demeaning and racist for you to insist on your "correct" ideas over and against Taiwanese ideas. It's their country, after all, you cultural/ideological imperialist pigs. this is utterly hilarious coming from you
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May 16, 2016 16:39
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Chantilly Say posted:I might not agree that it should, but I can accept the idea that if there's any case it could be applied in, it might be this one. But even then I can't see how you would set up the law to institutionalize "well this time we really really know he's guilty" and keep it abuse-proof. There's something cool in the USA: "beyond a reasonable doubt". I think we should go by that, more or less. When the perpetrator is caught with the murder weapon, CCTV, and witnesses, I'd say that fits the criteria anyone would draw up regarding the former cool thing. It's specious to suggest that such a crime is at all comparable to a case where a guy gets put on death row based on flimsy evidence and single eyewitness a la making a murderer.
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May 16, 2016 16:40
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Pandemonium posted:There's something cool in the USA: "beyond a reasonable doubt". I think we should go by that, more or less. When the perpetrator is caught with the murder weapon, CCTV, and witnesses, I'd say that fits the criteria anyone would draw up regarding the former cool thing. It's specious to suggest that such a crime is at all comparable to a case where a guy gets put on death row based on flimsy evidence and single eyewitness a la making a murderer. You realize that that's the standard for guilt or innocence and by that standard every single person ever convicted of murder is eligible for death? Like never mind the people who were later exonerated by whatever evidence, they'd all just be dead. All because you piss your panties about "muh tax dollars" going to feed and shelter a murderer? It's especially rich because even MORE of your tax dollars would go toward killing one.
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May 16, 2016 16:41
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this is a stickup posted:^ agreed It's cute you still try to peddle this ESL worksheet poo poo when I work with national and international publishers. Whatever works for you and makes you feel better, I guess...
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May 16, 2016 16:42
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Pandemonium posted:It's cute you still try to peddle this ESL worksheet poo poo when I work with national and international publishers. Whatever works for you and makes you feel better, I guess... For gently caress's sake shut the gently caress up you self-aggrandizing poo poo.
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May 16, 2016 16:43
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Spanish Matlock posted:You realize that that's the standard for guilt or innocence and by that standard every single person ever convicted of murder is eligible for death? Like never mind the people who were later exonerated by whatever evidence, they'd all just be dead. All because you piss your panties about "muh tax dollars" going to feed and shelter a murderer? It's especially rich because even MORE of your tax dollars would go toward killing one. I'd say it's the standard for "guilty" or "not guilty" (not innocent) in jury-based trials. Those are the sticky situations I am referring to. Thanks for trying.
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May 16, 2016 16:43
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Spanish Matlock posted:For gently caress's sake shut the gently caress up you self-aggrandizing poo poo. This is a good post! My feeling is it was you who bought my avatar. I'll have to thank Lowtax for you!
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May 16, 2016 16:44
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Pandemonium posted:This is a good post! My feeling is it was you who bought my avatar. I'll have to thank Lowtax for you! That doesn't even make any sense.
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May 16, 2016 16:45
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TetsuoTW posted:I like that the problem is apparently a question of the circumstances of the case and whether they warrant a death sentence and not whether death should even be a sentence. This. The right to life is "universal", and those rights which are deemed universal are sacrosanct and not subject to national or cultural exceptions. I believe the UDHR is the most widely adopted 'treaty' with the singular exception of the Vienna treaty. Pandemonium, this dudes death is openly being discussed as being used to short term bolster the image of a decrepit charlatan of a politician. Justice was clearly short-circuited and surely as a clearly DSM-V spectrum inflicted type that must grate.
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May 16, 2016 16:48
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Pandemonium posted:I'd say it's the standard for "guilty" or "not guilty" (not innocent) in jury-based trials. Those are the sticky situations I am referring to. Thanks for trying. Taiwan doesn't have jury based trial you worksheet warrior retard.
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May 16, 2016 16:52
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Of course his lawyers should have been allowed to appeal the verdict and he shouldn't have been gatted so quickly. But I'm not losing any sleep over the fact that he was executed ahead of schedule. Again, I prefer a grey approach rather than the black-and-white one so many of you seem to espouse. There is a huuuuuuge difference between this particular criminal and people who are accused of crimes on the basis of a certain amount of evidence after the fact. This dude's hand was caught in the murder cookie jar, and I think that matters just as much as precious appeals to due process. Due process should have been met, but in this case, oh well.
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May 16, 2016 16:54
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My point is, where do you draw that line? How do you write that law that can judge flimsiness? If you're going to say "there's a difference between this one case where someone was convicted of murder and this other case where someone was convicted of murder"--well sure, there is, but that difference needs to be written into the law. How do you write the law so that it executes one of them and not the other? It's not as easy or simple as saying "well that's a different case and it's dumb to compare them."
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May 16, 2016 16:55
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url posted:Taiwan doesn't have jury based trial you worksheet warrior retard. I'm clearly working off a US-based justice system in that example. Sorry, bro, I don't know the ins and outs of Taiwan's other than they still shoot people and have no qualms executing open-and-shut case criminals--something I have no problem with.
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May 16, 2016 16:57
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlGuZKcctXM
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May 16, 2016 16:59
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Pandemonium posted:Of course his lawyers should have been allowed to appeal the verdict and he shouldn't have been gatted so quickly. But I'm not losing any sleep over the fact that he was executed ahead of schedule. Again, I prefer a grey approach rather than the black-and-white one so many of you seem to espouse. There is a huuuuuuge difference between this particular criminal and people who are accused of crimes on the basis of a certain amount of evidence after the fact. This dude's hand was caught in the murder cookie jar, and I think that matters just as much as precious appeals to due process. Due process should have been met, but in this case, oh well. "I'm in the grey here" -A literal barbarian.
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May 16, 2016 16:59
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Chantilly Say posted:My point is, where do you draw that line? How do you write that law that can judge flimsiness? If you're going to say "there's a difference between this one case where someone was convicted of murder and this other case where someone was convicted of murder"--well sure, there is, but that difference needs to be written into the law. How do you write the law so that it executes one of them and not the other? It's not as easy or simple as saying "well that's a different case and it's dumb to compare them." If you are caught at the scene of the crime with the murder weapon and victim DNA on you with CCTV and witnesses corroborating each other I'd say that goes down as an open-and-shut take him out back and put him down case. One of the few--if not the only--case that I think would fall into this category. I watched "Making a Murderer" like everyone else. I know how hosed justice systems are/can be. I'm not advocating for death row inmates to all be gatted. But when it is arrested-at-the-scene-of-the-crime-with-the-murder-weapon obvious, well, I'll make an exception.
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May 16, 2016 17:00
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Spanish Matlock posted:"I'm in the grey here" I'll relay this sentiment to the large number of Taiwanese who feel even stronger about this than I do. I'm sure you're holier-than-thouness will go over well with them.
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May 16, 2016 17:01
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Pandemonium posted:
Pandemonium posted:I'm clearly working off a US-based justice system in that example. Sorry, bro, I don't know the ins and outs of Taiwan's other than they still shoot people and have no qualms executing open-and-shut case criminals--something I have no problem with. And, likely I'm the oval office for "thread mining".
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May 16, 2016 17:03
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Pandemonium posted:If you are caught at the scene of the crime with the murder weapon and victim DNA on you with CCTV and witnesses corroborating each other I'd say that goes down as an open-and-shut take him out back and put him down case. One of the few--if not the only--case that I think would fall into this category. I watched "Making a Murderer" like everyone else. I know how hosed justice systems are/can be. I'm not advocating for death row inmates to all be gatted. But when it is arrested-at-the-scene-of-the-crime-with-the-murder-weapon obvious, well, I'll make an exception. So to be clear, you want a law that says "The accused shall be eligible for the death penalty if they are caught at the scene of the crime with the murder weapon and victim DNA on them with CCTV and witnesses corroborating each other."
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May 16, 2016 17:04
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Pandemonium posted:I'll relay this sentiment to the large number of Taiwanese who feel even stronger about this than I do. I'm sure you're holier-than-thouness will go over well with them. This is a weak appeal to authority, and further an attempt to discredit by assumed popularity (probably a subset of the same fallacy). I can easily make the exact opposite assertion from a wide range of Taiwanese professionals across several social strata. I'd also wager I deal with more locals in a day than you experience in a month.
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May 16, 2016 17:11
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Pandemonium posted:I'll relay this sentiment to the large number of Taiwanese who feel even stronger about this than I do. I'm sure you're holier-than-thouness will go over well with them. Nah it's cool, most of my friends are interesting and nuanced people, so it's pretty much just douches like you who need to get hosed.
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May 16, 2016 17:12
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url posted:And, likely I'm the oval office for "thread mining". Don't see the problem here. I'm OK with what Taiwan's government did in this case. The jury trial stuff was not meant as a criticism of Taiwan, unlike every other poster in this thread who is enjoying taking a dump on this fine country for one little overzealous execution.
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May 16, 2016 17:16
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Pandemonium posted:one little overzealous execution. One little overzealous simplification
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May 16, 2016 17:22
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url posted:This is a weak appeal to authority, and further an attempt to discredit by assumed popularity (probably a subset of the same fallacy). Nah, I'm not personally deriving the correctness based on popularity or "authority". I'm saying such a sentiment as the one that was posted to make fun of me is even more applicable to a whooooooole lot of locals. I don't want you to draw anything further. Also, it's cute that people in this thread would judge them as if they are Americans. And lol at your "I tutor a few engineers and they are so much more enlightened than the Taiwanese normies".
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May 16, 2016 17:25
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url posted:One little overzealous simplification Yep, all I'm seeing is a lot of implicit slippery slope arguments. "They killed this dude, so it wont be too long till the guy who robs a bank gets executed dead in two weeks and then the guy who won't pay his parking fines gets taken out immediately after his court date".
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May 16, 2016 17:28
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Pandemonium posted:Nah, I'm not personally deriving the correctness based on popularity or "authority". I'm saying such a sentiment as the one that was posted to make fun of me is even more applicable to a whooooooole lot of locals. I don't want you to draw anything further. Also, it's cute that people in this thread would judge them as if they are Americans. He was trying to make me scared that if I disagree with his ridiculous bullshit that none of my Taiwanese friends would want to play with me anymore. I also specifically said that pretty much every person I know is more enlightened than your dumb rear end. You've got that double threat going of lovely terrible opinions and absolute inability to convince anyone of them.
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May 16, 2016 17:28
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Can someone post the bingo card? I can't remember where I saved it.
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May 16, 2016 17:32
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Spanish Matlock posted:He was trying to make me scared that if I disagree with his ridiculous bullshit that none of my Taiwanese friends would want to play with me anymore. I also specifically said that pretty much every person I know is more enlightened than your dumb rear end. You've got that double threat going of lovely terrible opinions and absolute inability to convince anyone of them. Yes, your friends are the enlightened ones I wasn't referring to. I was referring to the Everyman and Everywoman, a lot of whom supported explicitly or implicitly this execution AFAIK. You clearly think they are barbarians or worse if you think I'm a barbarian for shoulder shrugging at this case. Also, Lol if you think I'm trying to convince you of anything. That is not what the internet is for, obviously.
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May 16, 2016 17:36
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Hey while I think of it, has the Brass Monkey or anywhere in Taipei been showing Super Rugby?
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May 16, 2016 17:52
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Pandemonium posted:Yep, all I'm seeing is a lot of implicit slippery slope arguments. "They killed this dude, so it wont be too long till the guy who robs a bank gets executed dead in two weeks and then the guy who won't pay his parking fines gets taken out immediately after his court date". No, you stupid poo poo heel! The argument is if loving Ma is allowed to circumvent the due process of this nation for what he hopes to be some personal political gain and a "bright mark" on his legacy, then some guy who isn't an outright monster can get caught up in the same situation later on down the road, leading to a great injustice. It's not about executing people (well, partly it is), it's about punishing people for political reasons. Your only reaction is "welp, couldn't have happened to a nicer guy!" This is suppose to be "Good China" not loving Iran. POCKET CHOMP posted:Ignore list is some weakass poo poo especially when Panda's opinions and the controversy they cause are pretty much the lifeblood of this thread. If it wasn't for Line this thread would be a thousand pages of motorcycles, Hearthstone, ARC chat, and url's favorite links of the day.
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May 16, 2016 18:01
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Chantilly Say posted:So to be clear, you want a law that says "The accused shall be eligible for the death penalty if they are caught at the scene of the crime with the murder weapon and victim DNA on them with CCTV and witnesses corroborating each other." So if they had taken a week to find him they should execute him later, got it.
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May 16, 2016 18:02
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Pandemonium posted:Nah, I'm not personally deriving the correctness based on popularity or "authority". I'm saying such a sentiment as the one that was posted to make fun of me is even more applicable to a whooooooole lot of locals. I don't want you to draw anything further. Also, it's cute that people in this thread would judge them as if they are Americans. You don't get to decide what people do and do not draw from what your posted words. If you struggle with the awesome responsibility of writing, then don't give up that day job, I guess photocopying and cut/pasting work sheets is the right job for you. Your inability to cope with peer review is kinda detrimental to the writing process imho. Just saying, bro. You made an appeal to authority based on the anecdote of "my friends" (the normies). Lol at demeaning engineers as being a lower class. And for a third, lol if you think I "tutor a bunch of engineers". For my money, you hang around with a few students with populist ill thought out opinions, some of whom are basically your acolytes and probably catamites. You haven't begun to address the universally agreed upon and widely declared inhumanity of the death sentence, something you're prepared to hand wave away with a disconcertingly trite "overzealousness". If anything, you exhibit the colonial mindset with your stance that "the natives will learn in due course with a little training". For all your 'this great country', I'd bet my bottom dollar you're the one preparing an exit - simply because thou doth protest too much.
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May 16, 2016 18:06
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YF19pilot posted:
See also, spy chat, international election chat, thailand updates, fathering, career advice and, why doesn't panda love us pining.
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May 16, 2016 18:19
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GoutPatrol posted:So if they had taken a week to find him they should execute him later, got it. Not sure what you're getting at, to be honest.
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May 16, 2016 18:26
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