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Plan Z posted:Gristlenacht.
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May 17, 2016 10:05
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PST posted:Some new schadenfreude from the Bundy's facebook page This isnt fun, its painful. "Dint du nuffin, also blacks are worse wtf OBUMMER?" gently caress people, whats wrong with society.
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May 17, 2016 10:18
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Bombadilillo posted:This isnt fun, its painful. Racism is one of the founding pillars of the SovCit movement. As in, it was founded in part just to allow followers to be white supremacists during the Civil Rights era. Combine that with the usual horrible Internet comments and you get that page.
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May 17, 2016 10:56
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PST posted:Some new schadenfreude from the Bundy's facebook page nice rejoinder
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May 17, 2016 12:49
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Mr. Pumroy posted:nice rejoinder I avow all joinder with you, this is not an admiralty forum. Reading through a few hundred facebook comments on their page was kind of depressing in terms of being baffled at how so many people can be so stupid and have no idea about how the law, the constitution or reality in general works. I'm a Brit and have a better grasp on US law than they do.
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May 17, 2016 13:17
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PST posted:
If you can't tell the difference between "your" and "you're", you deserve to be in prison quote:None of these men or their families deserves to be in prison. They are not terrorists, they have not been proven guilty of any crime yet they are being harshly punished by our oppressive federal government and OUR elected officials Surprise, a sovcit doesn't understand how the legal system works And oh those poor Bundys, getting three square and bitching about mundane poo poo as being torture...Jesus these fucks really are entitled assholes. quote:I don't understand I prayed for hours and I prayed for Santill to be released too....I even prayed they wouldnt get arrested...and none of my prayers came to pass the exact opposite happened...Why is God not listening Why it's almost like he isn't there or something. quote:They're not real judges. These are administrators of tyrants contract laws which is a unconstitutional fraud and treason. Hang the bastards for high crimes! Oh please, please get arrested so you can fight this "injustice" at your trial and get put away quote:I volunteer at the Trump campaign and I got a call today from them. It was about the rally in Washington when the patriots were removed. Trump wanted to relay that he is VERY sorry about what happened. He had no idea what they had said. He was told by secret service that they were protesters. He wants all of you to know he is well aware of what's going on since his campaign manager was arrested not long ago as well for being at the Bundy ranch 2 years ago. He's tried to intervene but the Federal Government will not allow him to post bail or anything. He wanted you all to know he has specific people to get them released as soon as he wins. Aww, boo hoo someone got arrested for doing illegal poo poo, how sad. And surprise, another moron that doesn't understand the legal system Always a piece of work, these guys are failures of the highest caliber
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May 17, 2016 13:49
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Geostomp posted:Racism is one of the founding pillars of the SovCit movement. As in, it was founded in part just to allow followers to be white supremacists during the Civil Rights era. Combine that with the usual horrible Internet comments and you get that page. White Christian supremacy was a major cornerstone until the early 2000s when sovcit ideology had spread in prisons enough to jump the color barrier. But the people that founded this bullshit were heavy into American Chrustian Identity which believes that white Europeans were the lost tribe of Israel and the ones that settled in the US were specifically god's chosen people. This sprung up in response to the civil rights movement and people like William Gale preached this poo poo nightly all over the western states on country music radio starting in the late 60s
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May 17, 2016 14:15
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Mr. Nice! posted:
So Christian Identity is like Nation of Islam, but for white people?
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May 17, 2016 14:37
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Liquid Dinosaur posted:So Christian Identity is like Nation of Islam, but for white people? In a way, yes. However the NOI was founded in large part because black people in America were (and still are in many places) treated like less than second class citizens. About the only thing really in common is the belief that one group is god's chosen people. One group was the majority lashing out because they couldn't legally poo poo on black people anymore. The other was founded in response to centuries of poo poo dumped on people's heads because they're dark skinned.
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May 17, 2016 14:50
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Krinkle posted:Also, lol at that trump poo poo. That's so loving pandering it has to be from a direct campaign staffer for trump. Yeah, because I swore I recall Trump saying he wouldn't wait to put the boot to the neck of the occupiers if he was President.
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May 17, 2016 14:51
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Uh, God, I held up my end of the bargain so you have to give me my wish now.
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May 17, 2016 14:52
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Mr. Nice! posted:White Christian supremacy was a major cornerstone until the early 2000s when sovcit ideology had spread in prisons enough to jump the color barrier. Yeah, there was an article a couple of years ago about how the sovcit stuff was making waves in the Baltimore area (majority black) prison system. From what I recall it was mostly because two guys got it to work by accident where they delayed things enough they were able to get off on a technicality.
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May 17, 2016 15:08
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I think what this crisis has taught us is that anyone who inserts random spaces before punctuation on salty facebook posts is a safe bet for taking away their drivers license
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May 17, 2016 15:12
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Why it's almost like he isn't there or something. [/quote] I prefer to think the prosecutors prayed too, and god found them more persuasive.
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May 17, 2016 15:16
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muscles like this? posted:Yeah, there was an article a couple of years ago about how the sovcit stuff was making waves in the Baltimore area (majority black) prison system. From what I recall it was mostly because two guys got it to work by accident where they delayed things enough they were able to get off on a technicality. Luckily for them, the one thing that SovCit nonsense does is grind the legal process to a near halt, because while most of what they're doing isn't technically ILLEGAL, it really, really messes up the ability of the court to function. Things that are simple "yes/no, now let's move on" questions can take days to work through before you can get a SovCit to either answer you or demonstrate fully that they're not going to answer. For death penalty cases, this is multiplied even further, because the standards are (usually) higher, and it's effectively the government trying to dot every I and cross every T while an idiot keeps trying to take their pen. Because their stupidity was costing Baltimore a ton of money/time, higher ups eventually said "just take the death penalty off the table". They went to prison, but dodged the death penalty that they were basically guaranteed to get if it hadn't been randomly thrown out of the equation. Their "success" didn't really motivate the SovCit movement all that much, I don't think. edit: found a version of the article - http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2008/0805.carey.html I'm reading through it, the only strict inaccuracy from what I said is that it was a Federal case. theflyingorc has issued a correction as of 15:21 on May 17, 2016 |
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May 17, 2016 15:18
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cumshitter posted:Uh, God, I held up my end of the bargain so you have to give me my wish now. SovCit theology is almost as fun as their legal theory.
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May 17, 2016 15:25
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Ah, found part of it deep in the article:quote:Then, in a stroke of bad luck for the public defender’s office, the U.S. Attorney’s office decided to drop the charges against Burpee—perhaps reasoning that he wasn’t worth the hassle considering that he had already been sentenced to twenty-seven years. For Burpee’s peers, the decision imbued the flesh-and-blood defense with legitimacy and the hope of freedom.
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May 17, 2016 15:38
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Geostomp posted:Racism is one of the founding pillars of America. ftfy
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May 17, 2016 15:47
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theflyingorc posted:Luckily for them, the one thing that SovCit nonsense does is grind the legal process to a near halt, because while most of what they're doing isn't technically ILLEGAL, it really, really messes up the ability of the court to function. Things that are simple "yes/no, now let's move on" questions can take days to work through before you can get a SovCit to either answer you or demonstrate fully that they're not going to answer. Boggles my mind that a SovCit would think that stewing in a cell for contempt of court, especially when dealing with federal court. Thanks to Chadwick v. Janecka, it's entirely constitutional that they can hold you indefinitely for contempt of court. H. Beatty Chadwick spent 14 years in prison because he refused to pay his ex-wife $2.5 million dollars he held in offshore accounts to hid from the divorce (he claimed he lost that money in a bad business deal, but I'm guessing they had evidence to the contrary). They only let him out because his rendition "lost it's coercive effect".
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May 17, 2016 16:51
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Plan Z posted:Gristlenacht. I think that's the only one that's really worked.
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May 17, 2016 17:02
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Young Freud posted:Boggles my mind that a SovCit would think that stewing in a cell for contempt of court, especially when dealing with federal court. Thanks to Chadwick v. Janecka, it's entirely constitutional that they can hold you indefinitely for contempt of court. H. Beatty Chadwick spent 14 years in prison because he refused to pay his ex-wife $2.5 million dollars he held in offshore accounts to hid from the divorce (he claimed he lost that money in a bad business deal, but I'm guessing they had evidence to the contrary). They only let him out because his rendition "lost it's coercive effect". Well, the SovCits: 1. Believe that they're going to be exonerated in full at some point, once they say the right magic words 2. Believe that they are fighting an important, just fight against evil by revealing the secrets of "common law" 3. Often believe that the US Government owes them millions of dollars and they'll get it once they win their court case
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May 17, 2016 17:13
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theflyingorc posted:Ah, found part of it deep in the article: Burpee was patient zero to Baltimore. It was Florida's jails where he first picked up the sovcit bullshit since Florida is a particular hotbed for these nutjobs thanks, in part, to the high prevalence of actual maritime trials in Florida courts. Burpee shared his beliefs with Willie Mitchell and it actually caused Willie to be put in prison for longer. He and his co-conspirators had all used exact same statements and filings in court even though they weren't supposed to be communicating. Prosecution successfully argued that all of these motions and statements were proof positive that Mitchell was in charge of the gang. They used RICO to get him slammed for an additional murder that happened while he himself was already in custody. The judge at his trial actually said "I'm watching a man commit suicide in front of my eyes" because he feared the sovcit antics were a express lane for the death penalty. Had Mitchell never met burpee, he probably would have been acquitted on about half of his charges.
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May 17, 2016 17:25
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theflyingorc posted:Well, the SovCits: Beyond the superstitious use of magic words, their arguments are religious beliefs disguised as legal arguments, too. When they say the feds owning land is Unconstitutional, they don't mean it goes against what is written in the Constitution. They don't care that Article 4, Section 3, Clause 2 allows the federal government to "dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States," nor do they care about decisions by the judicial branch, or legal argument. None of these will change their minds because when they say the feds owning land is Unconstitutional, they mean it is immoral, in their eyes. Even if they claim not to be religious, themselves, they still tend to hold to religious thinking that the federal government owning land is morally wrong, whether it's backed by the Constitution or not, and that the good guys' victory cannot be stopped but only delayed, usually alluded to as some Rapture-like event called "The Revolution." Knight has issued a correction as of 18:26 on May 17, 2016 |
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May 17, 2016 18:01
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This is what happens when you buy in to everything highschool american history class had to say and never question or progress past it. Stay in school, kids 
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May 17, 2016 18:06
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Schnorkles posted:unfortunately you're going to be doing missionary work for all of eternity, sorry. Bet God had a sweet 10-speed
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May 17, 2016 18:31
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Sovcit beliefs aren't categorically religious- the movement is to heterodox to support that sort of interpretation without applying a meaninglessly broad form of "religious". vvv Yes, I get it, you're an atheist. That doesn't make the equation apposite. Discendo Vox has issued a correction as of 20:36 on May 17, 2016 |
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May 17, 2016 19:26
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Discendo Vox posted:Sovcit beliefs aren't categorically religious- the movement is to heterodox to support that sort of interpretation without applying a meaninglessly broad form of "religious". Nah, SovCit beliefs are easily both legalistic and fantasistic enough to qualify as religious.
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May 17, 2016 19:57
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Discendo Vox posted:Sovcit beliefs aren't categorically religious- the movement is to heterodox to support that sort of interpretation without applying a meaninglessly broad form of "religious". The entire basis of their philosophy, that rights are inherent and that the government is illegitimate, is absolutely religious. They believe that the rights that they have are intrinsic to them and ultimately come from God, not granted to them by the government.
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May 17, 2016 20:44
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Oil of Paris posted:The entire basis of their philosophy, that rights are inherent and that the government is illegitimate, is absolutely religious. no, that is not a required part of sovcit beliefs the only real linking factor in sovcit beliefs are that there are magic words you can utter that give you free money and/or let you get away with things the words and the rationale are completely fungible
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May 17, 2016 21:50
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Oil of Paris posted:The entire basis of their philosophy, that rights are inherent and that the government is illegitimate, is absolutely religious. A subset of sovcits believe that divine law is number 1, but that isn't the case with all groups. The belief that the government is illegitimate mostly stems from actual laws and such that have been passed. The constitution is (typically) legitimate and it's only the past 150 years or so, once again depending on which group you're talking to, that the government lost it's legitimacy. More than anything, sovcit beliefs are nothing but a massive conspiracy theory that magic legal words can dispel and free them from it's tyrannical yoke.
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May 17, 2016 22:06
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Oil of Paris posted:The entire basis of their philosophy, that rights are inherent and that the government is illegitimate, is absolutely religious. You're not describing sovereign citizen movements at all, but you've accidentally described a large portion of Liberal political philosophy.
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May 17, 2016 22:17
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Oil of Paris posted:They believe that the rights that they have are intrinsic to them and ultimately come from God, not granted to them by the government. Yo dawg, check out the Declaration of Independence.
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May 17, 2016 23:19
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Try as you might to show all sovcits are white religious racists, the black Moorish temple guys with their little fezzes are also a very sizable sovcit movement.
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May 18, 2016 00:55
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What SovCivs are is cultish, in the classical sense of possessing supposed mystic insight into a higher power. Our normal point of reference for that sort of behavior is religious, but it crops up in all sorts of contexts. My favorite example is the singularly dorks who've convinced themselves that they're techno-apostles bringing around the post-human rapture, or whatever.
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May 18, 2016 01:17
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mastershakeman posted:Try as you might to show all sovcits are white religious racists, the black Moorish temple guys with their little fezzes are also a very sizable sovcit movement. Lol look at this joindering fool who accepts the corporate decree known as the 15th amendment as real. Black SovCits don't count.
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May 18, 2016 01:49
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SocketWrench posted:
Are you There, God? It's me, Cliven.
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May 18, 2016 09:12
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cumshitter posted:Lol look at this joindering fool who accepts the corporate decree known as the 15th amendment as real.
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May 18, 2016 15:43
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Casimir Radon posted:There's a site called Mormon Girlz that does hardcore porn in temple garments. I think there's an associated site called Mormon Boyz that does gay stuff. I can't check at work, but their slogan better be "Where every position is the missionary position"
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May 18, 2016 18:05
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Haystack posted:What SovCivs are is cultish, in the classical sense of possessing supposed mystic insight into a higher power. Our normal point of reference for that sort of behavior is religious, but it crops up in all sorts of contexts. SovCivs are like those click bait ads on websites. "8 neat tricks the government doesn't want you to know" "How to triple your money, follow these five steps" And when you actually click on them to see it's a bunch of conspiracy gibberish with no real concrete explanation
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May 18, 2016 20:19
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trickybiscuits posted:They count for 3/5 of white people, that's something. I'd rather be 3/5ths of a citizen of the California Republic than joinder with my federal slave identity any day, friend. What kind of fool gives up his state citizenship so he can be a thrall to the corporate entity known as the fed? I can't believe those 1800's retards let that slip past them. People really were dumber in the past.
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May 19, 2016 04:33
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