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MrL_JaKiri posted:The game became infinitely more "casual" when they listened to raiders more, because for most raiders levelling is a chore to be gotten out of the way. 1-60 in WoW was horrible for a long time, and changing it so that it takes a tenth of the time was a huge plus.
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Apr 30, 2016 04:02
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Groovelord Neato posted:while that second part is true the first part definitely isn't considering wow has nothing close to bard or enchanter. No. A Bard twisting four songs in combat, which is by far the highest actions per minute activity/class in EQ, still doesn't come close to the attention required in post-Vanilla WoW by any DPS class in a raid setting, to say nothing of how much complex and manic healing and tanking are in WoW. Enchanters were never particularly mechanically complex, they just had ridiculously powerful abilities given how NPCs scaled in the game. WoW fight mechanics also involve a ton of positioning, movement, and positional awareness skill that EQ never did. I was a nerdlinger who raided in both EQ and WoW at their respective peaks, and EQ was never at any point as mechanically difficult as WoW. What EQ was, and is if you want to go check out an old school emulator server, is loving harsh. Losing experience on death, being able to lose entire levels through the penalty, NPC threat mechanics meaning you couldn't just run away a short distance to break threat and that if someone else ran aggressive NPCs past you you'd end up dead if you didn't zone with them, the game world being wide open with no breadcrumbs leading you to where you should go, etc. EQ was unforgiving, it punished failure like an abusive stepdad, but the mechanics of the combat were never particularly hard. WoW is casual in that it doesn't actively punish you for failure and in that it curates the entirety of the game's content for you, meaning you never really have to figure out where to go or what to do. In terms of gameplay, WoW remains probably the highest skill required MMO out there if you want to do the really high end poo poo, hard mode or whatever they call the highest raiding difficulty these days. Movie chat: This film looks loving atrocious and I can't wait to watch it while drinking.
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Apr 30, 2016 05:15
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I think the internet becoming far easier to use and navigate is the reason for the mystery going away.
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Apr 30, 2016 07:47
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Also when you play a game for so long that your time ingame is most easily measured in hundreds of days.
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Apr 30, 2016 08:03
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nah Freakazoid_ posted:Beaten to the punch, but I'm posting this anyway because MMOs are my favorite genre and I can't shut up about them: they were only interesting when they first came about how are they your favorite genre???
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Apr 30, 2016 13:02
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Freakazoid_ posted:Beaten to the punch, but I'm posting this anyway because MMOs are my favorite genre and I can't shut up about them: My favorite eq story (never played it) is about thieves removing the stones from boats so they'd go at rocket speed instead of being weighted down. 
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Apr 30, 2016 14:54
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WotLK era WoW was the first MMO I ever played, and I'm completely ignorant of stuff that came before it - is there a good resource I can read up on to understand in more detail about what you guys are saying about how WoW changed MMO design, how it was different from EQ, etc.?
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Apr 30, 2016 15:30
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I think the best way would be to play a ultima online server to get a taste of how wild things were. I never managed to sink that much time in it, ending up most times as the victim of food poisoning from some rear end in a top hat player.
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Apr 30, 2016 16:29
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I sunk a ton of hours into Ultimate Online. That game is the very definition of the kind of gameplay and world that nerds want from a modern MMO. Had player housing, crazy skills, Punishing World PvP, and tame huge rear end dragons to fight for you. That game had crazy highs and lows.
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Apr 30, 2016 16:46
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Jenny Angel posted:WotLK era WoW was the first MMO I ever played, and I'm completely ignorant of stuff that came before it - is there a good resource I can read up on to understand in more detail about what you guys are saying about how WoW changed MMO design, how it was different from EQ, etc.? it just mostly streamlined a lot of stuff - quests were fairly hidden in eq (you'd talk to an npc and they'd have something in [bracketed text] and you'd have to ask them a question with the [bracketed text] to continue), dungeons weren't instanced so stuff you wanted would be "camped" by other players, quests were pretty much only a way to get cool items and not xp in eq. wow was also a lot less punishing - like the other guy said you lost xp when you die in eq and could even lose levels and due to some math errors some levels took twice as much xp as they should have and caused you to lose twice as much, enemies never stopped chasing you until you reached a zone boundary. uo was much more about player interaction and was an open world. it's kinda of a shame eq's model was the one everyone followed.
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Apr 30, 2016 17:00
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Invalid Validation posted:player housing
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Apr 30, 2016 17:03
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:1-60 in WoW was horrible for a long time, and changing it so that it takes a tenth of the time was a huge plus. Vanilla wow levelling? Pretty horrible. Levelling now? If you start a zone at the bottom end of its recommended levels, the quests will be grey by the time you leave. That's also pretty horrible.
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Apr 30, 2016 18:29
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Vanilla wow levelling? Pretty horrible. Levelling now? If you start a zone at the bottom end of its recommended levels, the quests will be grey by the time you leave. That's also pretty horrible. Yeah but it still takes loving forever by the standards of a normal game.
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Apr 30, 2016 19:04
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Steve2911 posted:Yeah but it still takes loving forever by the standards of a normal game. I feel like a lot of modern games play like single player MMOs.
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Apr 30, 2016 19:20
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yeah they do and for some reason people think it's cool? destiny is just a lovely mmo without the massively part and should've been a bomb.
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Apr 30, 2016 19:22
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I blame UbiSoft.
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Apr 30, 2016 19:23
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It's because they realized the Skinner box model can produce massive investment despite limited development resources.
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Apr 30, 2016 19:28
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putting most of the content behind timesinks is a staple of the modern gaming industry Even shooters do it. I never saw all the guns in Battlefield 3 because I had to fuckin unlock them and it took forever
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Apr 30, 2016 19:39
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Groovelord Neato posted:yeah they do and for some reason people think it's cool? destiny is just a lovely mmo without the massively part and should've been a bomb. Destiny's levelling is done entirely through its story missions, without grinding. The endgame grind exists, but that doesn't mean the first 10-15 hours are suddenly not worth buying the game for. People bitch about the lack of content in that game but it's still a drat sight more than most campaign based FPS games.
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Apr 30, 2016 20:12
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Making simplistic gameplay use up lots of time is a proud gaming tradition. Try playing a 90s adventure game and you'll soon be frustrated how much of it is trial and error until you find the right person to lick your cupcake.
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Apr 30, 2016 21:37
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Come to think of it, I never did finish King's Quest VI as a child. The Lucasarts adventure games have aged a lot better than the Sierra ones, which is too bad as the Sierra games were often prettier with more interesting worlds.
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Apr 30, 2016 21:41
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dark seed was the most monstrous in terms of trial and error. i doubt anyone beat it without some form of walkthrough.
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Apr 30, 2016 22:18
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K82bvaAMemA If this theme isn't featured in the movie it's loving dead to me.
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May 1, 2016 00:15
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Groovelord Neato posted:they were only interesting when they first came about how are they your favorite genre??? I'm in constant denial that one day I will play another MMO that captures the magic of early Ultima Online.
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May 1, 2016 00:17
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Steve2911 posted:Yeah but it still takes loving forever by the standards of a normal game. Thanks to the level 90 boost in WoD (and the level 100 boost in Legion) that isn't really the case any more. Also Doctor Spaceman posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCfLn-OgR4g
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May 1, 2016 06:53
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I think that the "game begins at endgame" phenomena is also more of a consequence of MMO lifespan than any pressure in that direction from players. Each expansion has a certain amount of leveling content which players are anticipated to enjoy, then move on to the new crop of endgame content, which is usually expanded by patches. This is because any player not at endgame is, by definition, still occupied with the existing early game content. (Although new early game content was also added in Cataclysm, as well as heirloom weapons designed to promote revisiting early game content on alts). Earlier MMOs, to my knowledge, expanded on a similar pattern. The one time I player DAoC, there was already a free boost to 40 or so, whete there was a popular PvP zone. As I understand it, the last and least popular patch added artifact weapons that had to be empowered by a grind equivalent to levelling to the top level; this was hated and servers without it became popular. I know that the Korean Lineage games, on the other hand, have a system in which only a handful of successful PvP players ever reach top level, with leveling beyond a certain point requiring exponentially more time investment. As I understand it, level doesn't play the same role in combat math as in WoW, though. Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 10:47 on May 1, 2016 |
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May 1, 2016 10:40
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Hodgepodge posted:(Although new early game content was also added in Cataclysm, as well as heirloom weapons designed to promote With the completion loot bags giving stuff way beyond what you would find outside of dungeons, and dungeon quests being transferred INTO the dungeons themselves, there was no reason to ever leave the Looking For Group queue once you hit level 15.
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May 1, 2016 15:14
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Steve2911 posted:Yeah but it still takes loving forever by the standards of a normal game. Define "the standards of a normal game"; a massive scale traditional RPG can definitely take multiple full days worth of play to finish. THE BAR posted:With the completion loot bags giving stuff way beyond what you would find outside of dungeons, and dungeon quests being transferred INTO the dungeons themselves, there was no reason to ever leave the Looking For Group queue once you hit level 15. If your main aim is to level as quickly as possible, yes.
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May 1, 2016 15:22
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MrL_JaKiri posted:If your main aim is to level as quickly as possible, yes. From what I've seen, people tend to take the easiest route. Which was the entire point behind heirloom gear.
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May 1, 2016 15:28
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Define "the standards of a normal game"; a massive scale traditional RPG can definitely take multiple full days worth of play to finish. i've played through new vegas like five times at this point and have the equivalent of 4 days or so of playtime. people play more than that in a month of an mmo.
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May 1, 2016 16:18
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Character videos: Durotan https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VjRo3gnVJU Lothar https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wG1-gz1WQ7A
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May 3, 2016 05:42
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I like the guy from Vikings. That's a great show. You could see a little bit of his Ragnar swagger when he's stabbing the orcs.
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May 3, 2016 06:44
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THE BAR posted:With the completion loot bags giving stuff way beyond what you would find outside of dungeons, and dungeon quests being transferred INTO the dungeons themselves, there was no reason to ever leave the Looking For Group queue once you hit level 15. This right here is what ruined WoW for me.
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May 3, 2016 14:32
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Drifter posted:I like the guy from Vikings. That's a great show. You can also hear Ragnar every time he talks.
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May 3, 2016 14:37
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Holyshoot posted:You can also hear Ragnar every time he talks. That's pretty great.
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May 4, 2016 05:02
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A Russian Dota 2 Tournament had a ~30 minute interview with Duncan Jones and some (new?) footage https://www.twitch.tv/epicenter_en1/v/66548667?t=57m26s
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May 16, 2016 00:41
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This is a little clip and it actually looks.... decent. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1KAZcf2cNA Humour and action mixed up.
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May 17, 2016 19:38
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Vintersorg posted:This is a little clip and it actually looks.... decent. 
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May 17, 2016 21:21
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Looks like someone CG'd over a bunch of dudes LARPing in the woods.
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May 17, 2016 22:01
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Hat Thoughts posted:Looks like someone CG'd over a bunch of dudes LARPing in the woods. that's how you make a movie actually
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May 17, 2016 22:25
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