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WampaLord posted:other jobs Other...jobs?
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May 18, 2016 17:23
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:hourly employees are already OT eligible, so cutting their wages wouldn't do anything. WampaLord posted:I'd imagine the first company to try that would lose a lot of talent. Employees at that level have enough skills to seek other jobs if they find out their wages are being hosed with.
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May 18, 2016 17:25
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:also yes, a lot of the WORST FEARING over poo poo like this is taken care of by actual market forces Aren't we finally starting to see wages increase on the aggregate? Which is already fueling market fears of "oh poo poo dividends might go down because the plebs are expecting more money!" i suppose.
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May 18, 2016 17:25
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386-SX 25Mhz VGA posted:Yeah but wouldn't cutting everybody's wages by the amount necessary to bring their compensation to 40*newlowwage + 1.5*OT*newlowwage = (40+OT)*oldhighwage be something that lovely reprehensible employers would all attempt? So like if oldhighwage is $11/hr and OT=20, then newlowwage=$9.42/hr to keep the same overall compensation the people effected by this rule are salary employees who, by nature, don't have an hourly wage. doing what you propose would be a billion times more complicated than just giving them a raise to be over the threshold.
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May 18, 2016 17:28
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386-SX 25Mhz VGA posted:Yeah but wouldn't cutting everybody's wages by the amount necessary to bring their compensation to 40*newlowwage + 1.5*OT*newlowwage = (40+OT)*oldhighwage be something that lovely reprehensible employers would all attempt? So like if oldhighwage is $11/hr and OT=20, then newlowwage=$9.42/hr to keep the same overall compensation lovely companies are always going to find ways to be lovely, but hopefully this will take away some of their tools and force them to be more blatant about their shittiness.
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May 18, 2016 17:28
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:the people effected by this rule are salary employees who, by nature, don't have an hourly wage. doing what you propose would be a billion times more complicated than just giving them a raise to be over the threshold. Hope you're all right or more protections get added to prevent this fuckery
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May 18, 2016 17:30
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theflyingorc posted:Cop death rate stuff quote:Minnesota state troopers conducted more than 1 million traffic stops in the past three years, an average of about 360,000 annually, according to State Trooper Lt. Eric Roeske quote:According to FBI Law Enforcement Officers Killed and Assaulted reports, 62 officers were killed during traffic stops from 2003 to 2012. Note that the first number is just Minnesota, and the second is nationally. 6 officers a year (out of millions!) are killed during traffic stops, and they perform millions upon millions of them a year. This is like surfers worrying about shark attacks.
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May 18, 2016 17:30
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386-SX 25Mhz VGA posted:Honestly I don't agree with this, what I'm describing is a simple middle-school algebra problem that is much cheaper than raising everybody's wages converting non-hourly employees to hourly employees is way more complicated than just giving them a small raise
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May 18, 2016 17:31
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:converting non-hourly employees to hourly employees is way more complicated than just giving them a small raise
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May 18, 2016 17:32
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386-SX 25Mhz VGA posted:.... because? Because telling someone you're going to pay their base pay as less than they're being paid now is a good way to lose a lot of employees?
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May 18, 2016 17:36
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:Because telling someone you're going to pay their base pay as less than they're being paid now is a good way to lose a lot of employees?
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May 18, 2016 17:37
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386-SX 25Mhz VGA posted:.... because? It's more difficult from a planning perspective on the employer's part, and also makes PTO, sick-time, and the like more complicated (although, honestly, I have to wonder if these places are already gaming the overtime rules, how likely are they to offer PTO and sick time?).
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May 18, 2016 17:37
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386-SX 25Mhz VGA posted:I'm not against the new rules, but what would stop some lovely employer from reclassifying low-grade managers as hourly "leads," cutting their wages and keeping the same amount of overtime, with overall compensation about the same?  If you're getting paid under the new annual amount, you can't be exempt unless you fall under very specific job descriptions that the states and feds have had for a long time. Such as train operators, theater workers, film workers, and others. For example, most of the exempt jobs in Texas are farm and ranching related. It doesn't matter if you fall under the "executive" exemption, as long as you're under the new annual salary you can't be exempt. Read that ppt I linked to earlier. The one thing DOL needs to change is the number of subordinates required to classify someone as "management." It's currently two. Obama had discussed upping that to five, or something, a few years ago and I'm not sure if that's going to happen. It really should, but the raise in the salary threshold is far more important to handle and will tide people over until more can be changed. Lemming posted:lovely companies are always going to find ways to be lovely, but hopefully this will take away some of their tools and force them to be more blatant about their shittiness. Yeah this is why this is such a big deal. Very few companies will be able to get around this change and that's a great thing for much of the country. Sir Tonk fucked around with this message at 17:42 on May 18, 2016 |
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May 18, 2016 17:39
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386-SX 25Mhz VGA posted:OK I don't want to take over the thread so I'll shut up, but this sounds super naive There are a number of rules about exempt employees vs non-exempt employees that switching to hourly involves, versus just giving them a raise and still getting tons of free OT off them (also because most of them are going to be working a bunch of overtime, like to the tune of 15-20 hrs a week on that front) which means to make your model work, you're going to be drastically reducing their base pay.
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May 18, 2016 17:41
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Currently on CNN: DONALD TRUMP'S WIFE: "HE'S NOT HITLER" well guys I'm convinced.
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May 18, 2016 17:41
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SSNeoman posted:Currently on CNN: Not inaccurate, I've thought for a while that his closest analogue was actually Mussolini. edit: vvvvvv My man! vvvvvv
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May 18, 2016 17:44
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SSNeoman posted:Currently on CNN: Well, he's not. He's Mussolini with hair. 
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May 18, 2016 17:44
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Also the idea that they will just find some other way of screwing over their employees isn't a reason to not change this stupid loophole allowing them to screw over their employees.
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May 18, 2016 17:45
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Party Plane Jones posted:Well, he's not. as if trump could make trains run on time, dude failed at running an airline
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May 18, 2016 17:45
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:There are a number of rules about exempt employees vs non-exempt employees that switching to hourly involves, versus just giving them a raise and still getting tons of free OT off them (also because most of them are going to be working a bunch of overtime, like to the tune of 15-20 hrs a week on that front) which means to make your model work, you're going to be drastically reducing their base pay. Of course, that's exactly what I would expect the Hitler wife to say.
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May 18, 2016 17:46
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Is there a word for the arzying that happens when something unabashedly good happens and people are like "well I'm sure they'll find a way to gently caress us over even harder!" Like pessimism, but more thread specific I suppose
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May 18, 2016 17:46
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WampaLord posted:I'd imagine the first company to try that would lose a lot of talent. Employees at that level have enough skills to seek other jobs if they find out their wages are being hosed with. Yeah like how when silicon valley's massive wage-fixing racket was uncovered it caused a lot of people to leave the companies that had been loving them for years... ...oh wait.
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May 18, 2016 17:46
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Zelder posted:Is there a word for the arzying that happens when something unabashedly good happens and people are like "well I'm sure they'll find a way to gently caress us over even harder!" liberal fatalism
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May 18, 2016 17:47
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zoux posted:Of course, that's exactly what I would expect the Hitler wife to say. i think you quoted the wrong post
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May 18, 2016 17:47
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Zelder posted:Is there a word for the arzying that happens when something unabashedly good happens and people are like "well I'm sure they'll find a way to gently caress us over even harder!"
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May 18, 2016 17:47
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Evil Fluffy posted:Yeah like how when silicon valley's massive wage-fixing racket was uncovered it caused a lot of people to leave the companies that had been loving them for years... Wasn't the issue that the companies were working together to gently caress over everyone's salaries? Meaning you couldn't really go to a new job because most of the major players were also in on the racket?
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May 18, 2016 17:48
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386-SX 25Mhz VGA posted:OK I don't want to take over the thread so I'll shut up, but this sounds super naive We're really going to have to wait and see how companies try to game the system with the new rule. We've got a reasonable example with the ACA, though. You had companies like O'Reilly's (Papa John's, etc) not allowing any of their hourly workers to have more than like twenty-eight hours a week and in response all of their experienced staff took off to get jobs at places that weren't terrified of the ACA. Now all their locations are staffed by people that know little or nothing about cars. I haven't seen any studies on whether or not that had a noticeable impact on customer satisfaction, but I've been going to the same two locations for over ten years and the experience has been getting steadily worse since the ACA went into effect. Anecdotal, sure, but the same thing happened when Circuit City, trying to avoid bankruptcy, fired all of it's highest paid floor salespeople nationwide and customers left in droves (leading to CC going under). Turns out when you get rid of your most skilled employees, your most loyal customers notice. gently caress You And Diebold posted:Also the idea that they will just find some other way of screwing over their employees isn't a reason to not change this stupid loophole allowing them to screw over their employees. I'm sorry, sir, but the only solution is the very best solution possible and anything less is a waste of time 
Sir Tonk fucked around with this message at 17:53 on May 18, 2016 |
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May 18, 2016 17:50
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Zelder posted:Wasn't the issue that the companies were working together to gently caress over everyone's salaries? Meaning you couldn't really go to a new job because most of the major players were also in on the racket?
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May 18, 2016 17:52
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theflyingorc posted:lol, cops need to quit being terrified of traffic stops. (I read some new stuff) Pretty sure that at this rate a cop is gonna be more likely to die in a car accident by a fair amount.
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May 18, 2016 17:53
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Zelder posted:Wasn't the issue that the companies were working together to gently caress over everyone's salaries? Meaning you couldn't really go to a new job because most of the major players were also in on the racket? I think so, and also it's a little bit hard to feel too bad, since they were getting paid insane amounts of money instead of deliriously insane amounts of money (not to say the behavior was in any way excusable, it's just a little bit hard to get too worked up on the behalf of people who were only able to afford buying a small island instead of their own country).
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May 18, 2016 17:54
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Man, can you imagine what the world would look like if all the tech industry of the 90's had unionized instead of sucking on Ayn Rand's contract pay for life dick?
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May 18, 2016 17:54
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Sir Tonk posted:Man, can you imagine what the world would look like if all the tech industry of the 90's had unionized instead of sucking on Ayn Rand's contract pay for life dick? A nightmare hellscape in which the only way to get from one place to the other is to call a taxi? I don't think so.
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May 18, 2016 17:55
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Zelder posted:Is there a word for the arzying that happens when something unabashedly good happens and people are like "well I'm sure they'll find a way to gently caress us over even harder!" 386-SX 25Mhz VGA posted:Experience This right here. I'm not going to argue it isn't a good thing. I just see businesses trying their damnedest to get around the guidelines and screw the employees. I've seen this happen before. poo poo this USA today article outlines a couple of ways being discussed to do so. http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2016/05/17/overtime-pay-eligible-employees-workers/84504890/ This Forbes article explains how to do some of it: http://www.forbes.com/sites/groupthink/2016/05/04/overtime-rule-changes-are-coming-is-your-business-ready/#175b75325f56
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May 18, 2016 17:56
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A woman in Connecticut got screamed at for being "disgusting" in a bathroom. She has a pixie cut because she donated her hair to a child cancer charity and got mistaken for a trans woman.
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May 18, 2016 17:58
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386-SX 25Mhz VGA posted:.... because? Because implementation of a timecard system (or rolling those formerly salaried employees into the existing timecard system) is not free. There's all manner of additional costs in tracking and reporting hours worked that aren't massive on an individual basis but when you consider needing to do it organization-wide it adds up. If you've got 40 people sitting at $45k and you need to either give them a raise to $48k ($120k total) or hire 3 new back-office staff (let's say at the same $45k each, and for simplicity assume the hiring process is free - $155k) to handle the additional reporting and tracking needs going forward, plus pay $???? in license fees for your timecard system because you're adding users (again assuming it's free to do the admin work of adding the additional profiles) and you can start to see how those costs start looking like a bad deal compared to the $120k in raises for your 40 salaried people. Seriously most companies are just going to just give raises to bump their exempt employees over the threshold. They might send out a pithy letter if they're that timeshare guy but for the most part they demand enough OT work out of those employees that a modest raise isn't going to be larger than paying OT.
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May 18, 2016 18:04
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Luigi Thirty posted:A woman in Connecticut got screamed at for being "disgusting" in a bathroom. She has a pixie cut because she donated her hair to a child cancer charity and got mistaken for a trans woman. See this wouldn't be happening if Obama didn't poke the hornets nest and force people to be monsters.
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May 18, 2016 18:06
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FAUXTON posted:Because implementation of a timecard system (or rolling those formerly salaried employees into the existing timecard system) is not free. There's all manner of additional costs in tracking and reporting hours worked that aren't massive on an individual basis but when you consider needing to do it organization-wide it adds up. If you've got 40 people sitting at $45k and you need to either give them a raise to $48k ($120k total) or hire 3 new back-office staff (let's say at the same $45k each, and for simplicity assume the hiring process is free - $155k) to handle the additional reporting and tracking needs going forward, plus pay $???? in license fees for your timecard system because you're adding users (again assuming it's free to do the admin work of adding the additional profiles) and you can start to see how those costs start looking like a bad deal compared to the $120k in raises for your 40 salaried people. Yeah this will happen and the next bump is scheduled for 2020 to 50k. Giving companies time to design a in house time clock system if they would like.
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May 18, 2016 18:09
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I was seriously hoping that wesearch was going to be Quora but with paid bounties just so I could give people money for posting evidence for "Did noted Twitter troll Charles C Johnson defecate on a dormitory floor?" on shitter's own site.Party Plane Jones posted:Well, he's not. "with"
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May 18, 2016 18:12
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 Oh, good, this is still happening.
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May 18, 2016 18:20
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:as if trump could make trains run on time, dude failed at running an airline He didn't really make the trains run on time. But people believed he did because he marketed himself as the best train manager!
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May 18, 2016 18:24
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