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SlyFrog posted:It's also some clever thing on Something Awful in particular where people try to be all meta on Dunning-Krueger and passive-aggressively show how loving amazing they are by knowing how terrible they are. You know, through some retarded misinterpretation of Dunning-Krueger that says by saying you're absolutely terrible, it must mean you're really good, because really good people underestimate or disclaim how good they are. Dude, you get too angry at this game. I actually think you have a valid point, but why be so apprehensive about it? To rephrase your point. The last post I made I said I think once you make D2 you're can't call yourself a bad anymore, and then someone said well compared to how good you could be theoretically yes you can. Here's the problem. I've never heard somebody mention something that could theoretically happen, and then heard of that theoretical possibility actually being the outcome. You could put on a VOD of pretty much any top pro team this season, and there will be a moment where you're like "what the gently caress are these guys doing?" poo poo happens every game, but the discussion here doesn't seem to acknowledge this.
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May 18, 2016 22:29
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my point wasn't 'oh yeah you should be the theoretical best league player and if you aren't you're poo poo,' my point was that even diamond players have a lot of room to improve and should bea s critical of their own mistakes as they were in bronze/silver
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May 18, 2016 22:45
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Hermetic posted:"Learning" as in, he downloaded the game while we were at lunch, and Amumu looked the coolest to him out of all the free characters this week. Yeah, I would actually make a smurf account and do the required bot games with him, then go 2 man top in pvp or something. Jungling is way too complicated and not fun for learning the game. And it can only be done somewhat competently by nunu or Warwick before you have runes and a mastery page.
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May 18, 2016 22:45
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I thought about it a while ago and I think I'm pretty good at league, but there are people who beat me every game at a higher rank, and people who beat them and people who beat them and people who beat them and then at the top of OCE are our "pros" who can't beat any pros from any Western region, and those pros can't beat any Koreans and those Koreans can't beat SKT. And I think I'm good
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May 18, 2016 23:11
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SlyFrog posted:It's also some clever thing on Something Awful in particular where people try to be all meta on Dunning-Krueger and passive-aggressively show how loving amazing they are by knowing how terrible they are. You know, through some retarded misinterpretation of Dunning-Krueger that says by saying you're absolutely terrible, it must mean you're really good, because really good people underestimate or disclaim how good they are. I'll take it over your rants of "I am poo poo and there is LITERALLY NOTHING I CAN EVER DO TO IMPROVE SO STOP TELLING ME HOW TO IMPROVE"
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May 18, 2016 23:14
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Libertine posted:hybrid pen runes and ap runes aren't competing for rune slots. I will admit that I don't have AP runes. I really should buy a whole drat page of them while fiddlesticks is good, though.
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May 18, 2016 23:17
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Hermetic posted:I mostly said "runes and masteries" out of habit. Sunfire, Abyssal, his favourite color of boots, and some mix of RoA, Rylais, and more tank. Maybe RoA rush so he can ignore mana costs for the rest of the game. You'll melt people just by standing near them and be a tanky piece of poo poo. Athene's chat it's really good on spammy shield/heal champs that do enough damage to fill it up (which isn't THAT hard). On Janna it's nice but her damage is lowish (or I'm bad). Taric made it incredibly stupid because you can just get in there with a dive buddy and grind your face on them like a moron but it works out. It's probably kind of middling on Ali or Soraka. Karma uses it nicely too. It's a cool item because it enhances shields and heals but is kind of bad on the hardcore defensive supports since they struggle to do the damage to fill it up. BigLeafyTree fucked around with this message at 23:28 on May 18, 2016 |
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May 18, 2016 23:17
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Forgot that those don't count until, like 20 or so.
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SlyFrog posted:It's also some clever thing on Something Awful in particular where people try to be all meta on Dunning-Krueger and passive-aggressively show how loving amazing they are by knowing how terrible they are. You know, through some retarded misinterpretation of Dunning-Krueger that says by saying you're absolutely terrible, it must mean you're really good, because really good people underestimate or disclaim how good they are. a cool side effect of getting better at this game is the increased confidence as you rank up, and then having that confidence systematically smashed by the next tier of players. i figured people in diamond have probably gone through this process more times. really, they're just preparing you by making sure you're never confident or happy by reminding you of the terrible truth: everyone is bad also, the community in this game is saturated with terrible players with an inflated perception of their ability. i think the self-flagellation is refreshing Dr. Mantis Toboggan posted:It always strikes me as weird that a lot of people unironically call pretty much any player that is below the level of the best pros bad. Like say you're in Diamond 5 or something, that puts you in the top 3% or so of League players, but so many people call that level of skill bad. It's something that seems to be unique to video games, like if you're in the top 3% of literally any other skill in the world nobody would say you are bad, you would be considered outstanding at that skill. sure, but those skills usually have more time investment. i was d1 (0.1%ish) in s3 and that was 3 or so years of investment, 4-5 hours a day, in a skill. a comparable hockey player (top 2,000) is an AHL or NHL player and they put in like, 8-15 years of investment and it's their job. league mastery feels really shallow, and thus feels harder (to me, anyways) to say "yeah im really good at this thing" Verviticus fucked around with this message at 00:49 on May 19, 2016 |
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May 19, 2016 00:41
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SlyFrog posted:It's also some clever thing on Something Awful in particular where people try to be all meta on Dunning-Krueger and passive-aggressively show how loving amazing they are by knowing how terrible they are. You know, through some retarded misinterpretation of Dunning-Krueger that says by saying you're absolutely terrible, it must mean you're really good, because really good people underestimate or disclaim how good they are. It's not a "clever thing", and it's not on SA in particular. Literally every single good player I've personally met but one keeps that mindset, even those who make money off their image and need to show confident on cam/stream. There are dozens and dozens of exceptions but it seems like a really solid rule. You can be perfectly well aware that you're in a portion of the population that would be considered fantastic statistically and still recognize that you're relatively bad in the game when it comes down to the amount of things you need to master. As you expand your area of knowledge the edge of that area becomes bigger too, there are more things outside your skill range that you're aware. If you're Bronze or Silver then yes, it might seem ludicrous that someone who is Diamond thinks that he's bad and is only doing it as a humble brag. And that's exactly why you're not in Diamond. Also if you feel comfortable/happy where you are in regards to your skill that's all that matters, and that's also something that every high ranked poster in this thread parrots constantly. Some people can't feel comfortable unless they feel they're good. I have a lot of fun playing Rocket League even though I'm in the bottom 15% of it, and I don't care about it. You don't have to feel bad because you can recognize you suck at a video game. Elentor fucked around with this message at 00:54 on May 19, 2016 |
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May 19, 2016 00:50
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whoa when did the shop change
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May 19, 2016 00:52
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Elentor posted:I have a lot of fun playing Rocket League even though I'm in the bottom 15% of it, and I don't care about it. You don't have to feel bad because you can recognize you suck at a video game. I watch videos of good rocket league players and I am like "oh that all seems really easy, I just need to do that" and then I play again and I can barely loving track a ball in the air to hit it let alone do some of the crazy poo poo some good rocket league players do. Like this guy is super loving good and makes it look so easy, but it is not that easy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdVmqssa5v4
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May 19, 2016 00:56
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go watch imaqtpie stomp plat/low diamond players if you want to see why those high-tier players believe they're bad; it's because they are. every player has room for improvement (hell even qt dies and if he's not trolling will say "i should have ______") personally i'm hoping i can git gud enough to claw my way up to gold this season but it's taken me well over 200 games to go from bronze 2 to silver 4 so it's probably not very likely unless i really buckle down and practice some basic mechanics (i've been noticing a lot recently, for instance, that despite knowing the philosophy of "wait for important CDs and CC to be blown before going into a fight as a carry," i will just ignore that and E towards a fed garen on ezreal and then i either die or scramble to keep him off of me until my E is back up)
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May 19, 2016 00:58
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I think I'm good until I get put into the ground by some korean elo booster taking someone to challenger.
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May 19, 2016 00:58
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Methanar posted:I think I'm good until I get put into the ground by some korean elo booster taking someone to challenger. ya gently caress this poo poo, goddamnit. smurfs in general i think im good and then i duoed with bond and lost 15 lanes in a row and got mad Verviticus fucked around with this message at 01:15 on May 19, 2016 |
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May 19, 2016 01:12
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important PSA for people getting mad at league https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzpndHtdl9A
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May 19, 2016 01:17
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bryzgalov is a goalie aka a crazy person dont model yourself after him
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May 19, 2016 01:20
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Wow sure is easy to gently caress up that taliyah ult. I do not look forward to seeing more of her.
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May 19, 2016 01:21
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getting mad at league is cool
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May 19, 2016 01:23
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its my favorite thing to do
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May 19, 2016 01:26
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Verviticus posted:getting cool at league is mad
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May 19, 2016 01:26
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Woah, wait a minute, that's not what he originally said. That's crazy!!
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May 19, 2016 01:28
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henkman posted:Woah, wait a minute, that's not what he originally said. That's crazy!! Yeah I thought it might be a little edgy for the league thread but I did it anyway!!!! Also don't jungle taliyah
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May 19, 2016 01:48
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Verviticus posted:a cool side effect of getting better at this game is the increased confidence as you rank up, and then having that confidence systematically smashed by the next tier of players. i figured people in diamond have probably gone through this process more times. really, they're just preparing you by making sure you're never confident or happy by reminding you of the terrible truth: everyone is bad Other than you, I, Methanar and others talking about the "reality check" you get from being smashed by better players, I do feel this thread lacks a less abstract example, something other than just talking about mindsets. So let me give an example: Positioning. Here's the thing that people start to realize very well at around Plat: Almost every Bronze player is constantly making a positioning mistake, every single frame of the game. Like 99-100% uptime. It doesn't matter in Bronze games because your enemies can't see it or punish it accordingly. The biggest difference in laning capabilities tend to be how aggressive you can be against your opponent and that usually requires a deeper understanding of positioning. Namely where you should be at any given moment, and why you should be there at that moment. That's why a player with no understanding of positioning is almost always stepping somewhere wrong. Even if you were stepping at the same place a pro player would be, he could be predicting a skillshot or baiting an aggression. Bronze players are almost always positioned in such a way that allows them to be punished very hard. Now the first thing that players learn is not to make glaringly obvious positioning mistakes - not to take free hits from towers when you don't need to, etc. Players are still gonna do that by mistake even at pro level but it's something you learn relatively quickly not to do it all the time like a level 5 player. Afterwards you get better at noticing positioning mistakes and therein lies the first realization that you're not that great. Because as you're more capable of seeing those mistakes you also go "holy poo poo look at how bad I'm positioning myself" every time you watch yourself playing. And a Bronze player will notice it less often so he won't see how bad he is when he watches himself, only at the key points where he's being ganked or overextending and dying. But a Plat player should be able to see how egregious his positioning is. Why? Because it's not that much different from a Silver/Gold player at all. Like if a gold player is positioning wrong 95% of the time and a plat player is doing it 90% of the time, that's still a ridiculous number if you're aware that you've only done 10% right, 90% to go. You're doing twice as many "not wrong" moves than the gold player, and that is still very low. And that is just talking about not making obvious mistakes that would get you punished. Once you realize the importance of positioning (and how bad everyone is at it) you begin to understand why Faker is so obscenely good and why he does his name justice. Faker is superbly good at faking his positioning with bluffs - he consistently likes to bait the enemy into a comfortable position where he thinks he is safe, turning his back for half a second to make the enemy drop his guard thinking Faker's moving back and then his enemy is dead at the maximum range possible from his Flash + whatever dash he had, and no one saw it coming. Keep in mind that his opponent is probably very good too - the guy he's fighting has a far lower % of positioning mistakes than you and I can ever hope to accomplish. Also do keep in mind like I said that as you become more skilled you can >see< more mistakes at a faster pace than you can correct them, so what that means is that your 90% of mistakes at Plat might have seemed like 70% at the time, but now that you're Diamond your 85% looks like a 75%. So you're constantly and consistently having a broader vision than before of why you're not exactly fantastic. At some point you get to something very close to your skill cap - mechanically, strategically, everything. Now imagine that your skill cap is Diamond 2. Pretty good, right? Yes, it is. You're 1 in a 1000, that's quite a fantastic achievement. And your amassed knowledge now allows you to see that you're still positioning wrong over 50% of the time and you can punish your enemies say 10% of the time. And that's why these players see themselves as really bad. They can see that for all their top 0.1% rank they're not even halfway across the way to the level of mastery they can see. And there's still everything else they can't see. And that's just positioning, one of the many aspects of the game. There are games where you can master 80% of it even if you're in the bottom 10%. In LoL the better you play, the more you realize how far away you are from mastering 50% of it. And that's why all these high ranked players point out that they're all bad. I helped a friend get out of being stuck in Bronze V for months by explaining this to her and helping her understand that literally everything her opponent is doing is wrong, so that she should be looking for openings 100% of the time. Once she "got it" that if she didn't see any opening it's because she wasn't looking properly, she started playing more aggressively and thinking harder about the enemy's positioning in the replays, and got fairly quickly to Silver IV. Before, she was afraid of doing anything because she just assumed that her opponent wasn't making that many mistakes if any at all. Elentor fucked around with this message at 01:56 on May 19, 2016 |
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May 19, 2016 01:54
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Kashuno posted:Yeah I thought it might be a little edgy for the league thread but I did it anyway!!!! I came here to post this haha. Her mana costs are loving huge, if you're playing her in lane I guess you will need to rush a Morello's or something first. EDIT: Actually you probably want RoA. Forgot Morello's doesn't have the regen on it anymore. anti-magic fucked around with this message at 02:10 on May 19, 2016 |
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May 19, 2016 02:07
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a bit verbose but yeah thats a good way to look at ithenkman posted:Woah, wait a minute, that's not what he originally said. That's crazy!! i am misrepresented
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May 19, 2016 02:07
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Verviticus posted:all junglers should be purged like in the movie the purge i mean, i wouldn't have said it myself but i won't disagree with it, either.
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May 19, 2016 02:12
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im pretty sure thats actually a direct quote of me
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May 19, 2016 02:18
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Junglers will be the first against the wall when the revolution comes
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May 19, 2016 02:21
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rabidsquid posted:I watch videos of good rocket league players and I am like "oh that all seems really easy, I just need to do that" and then I play again and I can barely loving track a ball in the air to hit it let alone do some of the crazy poo poo some good rocket league players do. I can barely hit the ball while it's on the ground at all.
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May 19, 2016 02:23
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Methanar posted:Junglers will be the first against the wall when the revolution comes
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May 19, 2016 02:34
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flyingkiwi posted:I thought about it a while ago and I think I'm pretty good at league, but there are people who beat me every game at a higher rank, and people who beat them and people who beat them and people who beat them and then at the top of OCE are our "pros" who can't beat any pros from any Western region, and those pros can't beat any Koreans and those Koreans can't beat SKT. And I think I'm good You are a plat player right? There are orders of magnitude more players who are worse than you than players who are better. If you are a top 10% runner worldwide, you are fast and good at running even though Usain Bolt is quicker jogging.
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May 19, 2016 02:44
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holy loving jesus christ i am bad at league of legends
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May 19, 2016 02:48
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I make a billion mistakes a game and I see half of them and each one is agony because I can instantly see what I should have done better but they're taking the nexus
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May 19, 2016 02:49
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 'Yeah! Diamond 1. wait no gently caress
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May 19, 2016 02:56
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A Saucy Bratwurst posted:You are a plat player right? There are orders of magnitude more players who are worse than you than players who are better. I think that as you get good at almost anything, you understand more HOW you can be good at it. Your ability to see to see things it's even possible to be good at increases. The newest players will see being good as 'can kill mans' and maaaybe 'can last hit'. Then you get better and see more things to be good at that never even enter the mind of a new player like trading, wave management, vision control, leveraging a lead, etc. If you see all those things it's possible to be good at you can see when you have a lot of room to improve so you have plat, diamond, and challenger players saying they're bad with maybe only a bit of hyperbole from their point of view. Also being way better than the average when the average sucks dick feels less impressive than being in the top 20% of the population would make it sound. I'm probably in the top 20% of runners in North America or something just for being very vaguely in shape and having been active years ago.
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May 19, 2016 03:20
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i played a game with a tailyah on the enemy team, we had a tf mid. he kinda got crushed by her but everyone else on our team was gettin mega fed so she couldn't carry. she went protobelt first item, seemed good to me.
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May 19, 2016 03:34
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i only played one game against a taliyah and the only meaningful thing she did was zoom into a team fight and get instantly stunned against her wall by vayne and 3 shot
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May 19, 2016 03:48
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I wonder if you could run taliyah bot with like a jhin mid or something. Her early game numbers seem really good Also how long until we get the weirdos that come out of the woodwork when a new champ is released and ends up being good who go 'riot only makes op champs so that people pay real money to get them!' I bet within the next 3 pages we get one
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May 19, 2016 04:05
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http://plays.tv/video/573d2d1b9015e6c755/new-anivia-is-still-bad-though Ladder Rank 3,884 (0.2596% of top) Still got a long ways to go boys.
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May 19, 2016 04:08
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BigLeafyTree posted:I think that as you get good at almost anything, you understand more HOW you can be good at it. Your ability to see to see things it's even possible to be good at increases. The newest players will see being good as 'can kill mans' and maaaybe 'can last hit'. Then you get better and see more things to be good at that never even enter the mind of a new player like trading, wave management, vision control, leveraging a lead, etc. If you see all those things it's possible to be good at you can see when you have a lot of room to improve so you have plat, diamond, and challenger players saying they're bad with maybe only a bit of hyperbole from their point of view. If you take the population of active runners in America and you are in the top 10% of that then you are an objectively good runner. People who do not run are not runners.
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May 19, 2016 04:08
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