p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

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CRIP EATIN BREAD: Jun 24, 2002; Hey stop worrying bout my acting bitch, and worry about your WACK ass music. In the mean time... Eat a hot bowl of Dicks! Ice T; Soiled Meat

so whats up with rust, is it good?

seems like it's good, but i may be wrong.

needs more tooling support but jetbrains idea and youcompleteme already support it so thats all i really need.

# ? May 18, 2016 15:13

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# ? Jun 11, 2024 15:04

fart simpson: Jul 2, 2005; DEATH TO AMERICA

i like rust. i dont know if its worth using yet but the language itself is solid & has good stuff. it's the libraries and tooling and stuff like that that was lacking last time i used it

# ? May 18, 2016 15:27

CRIP EATIN BREAD: Jun 24, 2002; Hey stop worrying bout my acting bitch, and worry about your WACK ass music. In the mean time... Eat a hot bowl of Dicks! Ice T; Soiled Meat

yeah from what ive banged out with it, it seems nice.

i like the explicit lifetime declarations when needed.

also trait based generics is cool and good

# ? May 18, 2016 15:33

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

Soricidus posted:

or international, which doubtless you consider to be the same thing

foreigners just had to use their own whacked out numbering plans instead of the NANP.

# ? May 18, 2016 15:38

Cybernetic Vermin: Apr 18, 2005

akadajet posted:

Cybernetic Vermin posted:
don't be a computer toucher

# ? May 18, 2016 16:24

fart simpson: Jul 2, 2005; DEATH TO AMERICA

CRIP EATIN BREAD posted:

yeah from what ive banged out with it, it seems nice.

i like the explicit lifetime declarations when needed.

also trait based generics is cool and good

option types instead of nulls & immutable by default with explicit mutability are the two best features imho

# ? May 18, 2016 19:23

CRIP EATIN BREAD: Jun 24, 2002; Hey stop worrying bout my acting bitch, and worry about your WACK ass music. In the mean time... Eat a hot bowl of Dicks! Ice T; Soiled Meat

fart simpson posted:

option types instead of nulls & immutable by default with explicit mutability are the two best features imho

yeah plus being able to pattern match on things like

code:

    match self.read_u32() {
      Ok(_n) => {
        let result = self.do_read(_n);
        return Some(Ok(result));
      }
      Err(ref e) if e.kind() == io::ErrorKind::UnexpectedEof => None,
      Err(e) => Some(Err(e))
    }

is really cool

# ? May 18, 2016 20:05

JimboMaloi: Oct 10, 2007

is this new? for some reason facebook built a layer on top of ocaml to give it a more javascripty syntax

# ? May 18, 2016 20:49

triple sulk: Sep 17, 2014

JimboMaloi posted:

is this new? for some reason facebook built a layer on top of ocaml to give it a more javascripty syntax

yes, it was put out yesterday

# ? May 18, 2016 20:51

Sapozhnik: Jan 2, 2005; Nap Ghost

Facebook and Twitter etc have way too many employees for what they do

meanwhile I'm over here being an army of one at my job :suicide:

# ? May 18, 2016 21:04

DONT THREAD ON ME: Oct 1, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo; Floss Finder

https://facebook.github.io/reason/#syntax-basics-primitives
that float operator is totally disgusting

# ? May 18, 2016 21:17

JawnV6: Jul 4, 2004; So hot ...

how do you parse 23.0 +.01
23.0 (float add) .01
or
23.0 (float add) 01

# ? May 18, 2016 21:42

JimboMaloi: Oct 10, 2007

thats brought over from ocaml, but its a weird thing to keep given the stuff that they changed. i think its because theres no operator overloading in ocaml?

# ? May 18, 2016 21:44

Suspicious Dish: Sep 24, 2011; 2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro; Fun Shoe

It's because types are inferred based on the operator.

# ? May 18, 2016 22:12

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

implicit casts are the the work of the devil

# ? May 19, 2016 00:41

JewKiller 3000: Nov 28, 2006; by Lowtax

tef posted:

implicit casts are the the work of the devil

truer words have never been spoken

# ? May 19, 2016 01:08

Kuvo: Oct 27, 2008; Blame it on the misfortune of your bark!; Fun Shoe

tef posted:

implicit casts are the the work of the devil

# ? May 19, 2016 02:09

fart simpson: Jul 2, 2005; DEATH TO AMERICA

CRIP EATIN BREAD posted:

yeah plus being able to pattern match on things like

code:

    match self.read_u32() {
      Ok(_n) => {
        let result = self.do_read(_n);
        return Some(Ok(result));
      }
      Err(ref e) if e.kind() == io::ErrorKind::UnexpectedEof => None,
      Err(e) => Some(Err(e))
    }

is really cool

pattern matching owns

# ? May 19, 2016 02:13

JimboMaloi: Oct 10, 2007

agreed that implicit casting is terrible, but its not a casting issue i dont think? like in f# or sml,

code:

1 + 1 //ok
1.0 + 1.0 //ok
1 + 1.0 //not ok

the problem is that

code:

let butt = fun (x,y) -> x + y

isnt actually decidable with overloaded operators, but sml and f# cheat by defaulting to int in the absence of additional context

# ? May 19, 2016 04:29

fart simpson: Jul 2, 2005; DEATH TO AMERICA

doesnt f# have typeclasses or something like that?

# ? May 19, 2016 05:17

rjmccall: Sep 7, 2007; no worries friend; Fun Shoe

any language with overloading / type classes will have a defaulting rule of some sort just so you don't get embarrassing problems like 1+1 not type-checking

# ? May 19, 2016 05:24

raminasi: Jan 25, 2005; a last drink with no ice

fart simpson posted:

doesnt f# have typeclasses or something like that?

it does not

# ? May 19, 2016 06:40

Wheany: Mar 17, 2006; Spinya^{ha^{ha^haha}ha}ha_{ha_{ha_haha}ha}ha!; Doctor Rope

Mr Dog posted:

or uhm return boolean from the accessor instead of Boolean

who even does that, loving hell

turns out the other end also didn't expect the Boolean field to ever be null, lol

the field has now been changed to primitive boolean.

# ? May 19, 2016 08:21

pokeyman: Nov 26, 2006; That elephant ate my entire platoon.

returning Boolean sounds like returning a Maybe Boolean which is an entirely useful concept, but obviously Java is not set up to make that work right

# ? May 19, 2016 13:13

CRIP EATIN BREAD: Jun 24, 2002; Hey stop worrying bout my acting bitch, and worry about your WACK ass music. In the mean time... Eat a hot bowl of Dicks! Ice T; Soiled Meat

there's always Optional<T> and it hahahahahaha

# ? May 19, 2016 14:24

CRIP EATIN BREAD: Jun 24, 2002; Hey stop worrying bout my acting bitch, and worry about your WACK ass music. In the mean time... Eat a hot bowl of Dicks! Ice T; Soiled Meat

java 8 is cool but after working with some languages that dont allow null values or at least force you to check i just hate that entire aspect

# ? May 19, 2016 14:26

fart simpson: Jul 2, 2005; DEATH TO AMERICA

CRIP EATIN BREAD posted:

java 8 is cool but after working with some languages that dont allow null values or at least force you to check i just hate that entire aspect

# ? May 19, 2016 14:44

DONT THREAD ON ME: Oct 1, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo; Floss Finder

you don't get to complain about null until you've used ruby for something non trivial

# ? May 19, 2016 14:55

Symbolic Butt: Mar 22, 2009; (_!_); Buglord

MALE SHOEGAZE posted:

you don't get to complain about null until you've used ruby for something non trivial

ruby itself is not that bad imo but holy poo poo rails

rails loves returning nils everywhere

# ? May 19, 2016 14:58

DONT THREAD ON ME: Oct 1, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo; Floss Finder

god gently caress rails

# ? May 19, 2016 15:04

Wheany: Mar 17, 2006; Spinya^{ha^{ha^haha}ha}ha_{ha_{ha_haha}ha}ha!; Doctor Rope

Wheany posted:

turns out the other end also didn't expect the Boolean field to ever be null, lol

the field has now been changed to primitive boolean.

we had kind of the same situation with a Long productId:

Java code:

if(productId == null) {
	throw new Whatever("Product id is required");
}
if(getProduct(productId) == null) {
	throw new Whatever("Product not found");
}

# ? May 19, 2016 15:08

Sapozhnik: Jan 2, 2005; Nap Ghost

Optional<T> is the best retrofit you can hope for. As a band aid you can add Checker Framework to your build and it will throw an error if a null could slip in. Prior to Java 8 you'd use a boxed type if you wanted a nullable primitive. It's not a great situation but I'm not going to switch to some fad lang with zero library and tool support ecosystem purely to satisfy somebody's type system sperging. Besides, the fact that "byte" is signed is at least as bad.

Somebody declaring a data member Boolean where it should never be null is somebody failing to understand their tool and then blaming the tool. As usual.

# ? May 19, 2016 15:26

Bloody: Mar 3, 2013

Mr Dog posted:

Optional<T> is the best retrofit you can hope for. As a band aid you can add Checker Framework to your build and it will throw an error if a null could slip in. Prior to Java 8 you'd use a boxed type if you wanted a nullable primitive. It's not a great situation but I'm not going to switch to some fad lang with zero library and tool support ecosystem purely to satisfy somebody's type system sperging. Besides, the fact that "byte" is signed is at least as bad.

Somebody declaring a data member Boolean where it should never be null is somebody failing to understand their tool and then blaming the tool. As usual.

i always forget java's byte is signed and it's loving hilarious

# ? May 19, 2016 15:31

gonadic io: Feb 16, 2011; >>=

Wait what? So is it 9 bits total or only carries 7 bits of information?

I like to think that it's the java designers ensuring the fail-fast approach wrt bit-janitors evaluating the language

# ? May 19, 2016 15:49

triple sulk: Sep 17, 2014

MALE SHOEGAZE posted:

god gently caress rails

it's bad

# ? May 19, 2016 15:50

CPColin: Sep 9, 2003; Big ol' smile.

gonadic io posted:

Wait what? So is it 9 bits total or only carries 7 bits of information?

I like to think that it's the java designers ensuring the fail-fast approach wrt bit-janitors evaluating the language

It's 8 bits, so -128 to 127. I'm guessing they went, "Well all our other primitives are signed, so it'd be weird if byte were unsigned." The only difference would have been that widening conversions wouldn't do sign extension, right? I think we would have all gotten over it. Maybe if they'd added a special operator that does the "& 0xff" for you, it wouldn't have been such a big deal.

# ? May 19, 2016 15:55

Sapozhnik: Jan 2, 2005; Nap Ghost

CPColin posted:

"Well all our other primitives are signed, so it'd be weird if byte were unsigned."

it's even stupider than that because char is unsigned

and 16-bit

:suicide:

# ? May 19, 2016 15:56

FamDav: Mar 29, 2008

I'm going to call out into the void for a tef/monococqc paper dump

what's the good stuff in terms of formal verification/specification languages?

# ? May 19, 2016 16:01

MononcQc: May 29, 2007

FamDav posted:

I'm going to call out into the void for a tef/monococqc paper dump

what's the good stuff in terms of formal verification/specification languages?

Not too knowledgeable there. The people I know who've been the closest to that have been using either Coq or Idris or Agda to write specific proofs or verified library. One of them used an extraction target from Coq so he could get verified data structures in another language, but otherwise I don't really know.

Model validation and verification is also a thing, but I've never used them myself or read any papers about it that didn't have to do with specific implementations.

# ? May 19, 2016 16:23

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# ? Jun 11, 2024 15:04

CRIP EATIN BREAD: Jun 24, 2002; Hey stop worrying bout my acting bitch, and worry about your WACK ass music. In the mean time... Eat a hot bowl of Dicks! Ice T; Soiled Meat

Mr Dog posted:

it's even stupider than that because char is unsigned

and 16-bit

utf-16 is a blight

# ? May 19, 2016 18:19

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

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