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https://vine.co/v/eYTxxmxDT9l Peekaboo
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May 18, 2016 22:31
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I'm trying to train Kiwi that screaming does not equal attention or affection, and wow, you really have to wait out some long tantrums. I should have done this way earlier, I think she thinks vigorously ringing her bell and screaming summons me. Nandays are so loud
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May 18, 2016 23:47
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I know you're not supposed to use deprivation as a form of punishment but after trying a bunch of stuff with my conure the only success I had was by just leaving the room when he would bite/scream and not returning until he stopped. Of course I lived in a 1br efficeincy sort of apartment, so leaving the room meant going into the bathroom with a book and sitting on the john reading until he stopped.
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May 19, 2016 01:04
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Agent355 posted:I know you're not supposed to use deprivation as a form of punishment but after trying a bunch of stuff with my conure the only success I had was by just leaving the room when he would bite/scream and not returning until he stopped. I thought you could do a combination? Like not reward screams while positively rewarding good behavior? I've been making a show of taking one bird out that is being quiet and not taking the one that is (Sammy being quiet, Kiwi being noisy) and won't pick Kiwi up until she's been quiet for a little while. Then when I pick her up I spend a while praising her and giving her scritches. edit: Kiwi is also a giant affection hog so I feel like just praise and cuddles is enough reinforcement, but maybe I should try treats too. Shirec fucked around with this message at 01:24 on May 19, 2016 |
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May 19, 2016 01:09
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I only know what I've read across a number of books and 'don't force your bird to be alone as a form of punishment' is one alot of them seem to agree on. Though whether that means 'ever, at all' or 'to excess' who knows. It does seem specific to depriving them social contact more than depriving treats or active attention or anything. So like when I left the room when the bird was acting out (or I suppose if I caged the bird in an empty room same diference).
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May 19, 2016 01:35
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Agent355 posted:I only know what I've read across a number of books and 'don't force your bird to be alone as a form of punishment' is one alot of them seem to agree on. Ah, then I think I might be alright. She can still see me, I'm just not reacting to her and won't get up or move towards her until she quiets down. Which I assume is the active attention?
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May 19, 2016 01:38
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Yeah I don't believe thats what the books were referring too. Maybe another birb haver knows more, thats just my own second hand recollection.
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May 19, 2016 01:50
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So here's a sad/funny story for you all. When I was a kid in the early 90's we raised a lovebird from an egg. He was amazing and had more personality than I've ever seen in any bird. He had a particular squawk that he used to get our attention. A few years later, we got our African Grey. The lovebird eventually died, but the Grey learned that squawk. Of course he's much bigger than the lovebird, so that noise became louder and annoying. He knows this, so even to this day, that's his HEY HEY HEY ME ME ME GIMME squawk. Fast forward to today. This evening, my 3 year old conure did the squawk PERFECTLY. He even did it when the grey made the body movements that accompany it. It's crazy that a noise from a bird 20+ years ago is still in use in later generations of birds.
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May 19, 2016 03:18
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The problem with attempting to make a bird stop screaming for attention is that it's one of their hardwired behaviors. It's not something you can condition out of them, because their brain has set neural pathways from birth that are, "if alone, scream until flock arrives or calls back." Making bird be alone in response to biting or other undesirable behaviors is definitely a great way to cause extinction of undesriable response, but you're never gonna make a bird not scream for attention. What you can do is encourage the bird to play with toys by giving treats while they do so or giving treats while they're quiet and floofed up or whatever. Basically you want to shape their behavior in the cage towards contentment with either playing with toys or being a floofy bird by offering rewards. This will cause them to perform those behaviors more often than they scream for attention, aka flock call. You can also try to extinguish the summoning behavior. The classic example is that Pavlov's dog would no longer drool when the bell rang if the bell rang a lot without producing food. So you want to basically greet the bird often and remind him/her that you're around a lot without responding to the bell/screaming directly. Idk, birds are hard to deal with. We're down to Teeka having a hissy fit once or twice a day for 15 minutes or so at a time and we're happy with it. He's a creature that super wants to be around his flock but we can't always be there. As best as we can, we teach him to destroy poo poo in his cage or be happy being a floofed up bird, and also constantly say hi and make contact with him so that the chances of him having a fit in an attempt to summon the flock are low. But we can also see when it's on his mind to be lovely and it's rough when someone is working nearby. It's all about playing the percentages since bird brains are just wired differently from ours.
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May 19, 2016 06:06
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Redirecting to "acceptable" noise has also worked for me. If Judah starts screaming and won't stop, I can often get him to stop by redirecting him to another kind of noise, one that doesn't make me want to die. If I start whistling, he will start whistling, and that derails his potato brain long enough that he'll often forget he was screaming and just whistle till he's done and then go back to doing quieter bird things. That may not work with larger, more complex parrots, granted
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May 19, 2016 13:32
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No, definitely works for Teeka as well
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May 19, 2016 14:06
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Pip pip pip posted:I don't think I've ever posted/asked about this before. It's another "is my conure EXTRA weird or do they all do this" question. Toast does a similar thing when he eats anything with a "shell" or skin. Cooked peas, corn, or beans, he'll eat the soft insides very quickly and then leave the outside. He'll also chew on squishy fruit bits (pears, nectarines, etc) until I guess he does the same thing as Ozzy and decides he's got all the tasty juice out, and leaves the boring fibre behind. I guess pet birds, as they have plentiful food whenever they want it, are able to be more picky with what they eat (especially if they know someone is going to pick up after them and maybe give them more fruit to chew on).
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May 19, 2016 14:21
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isak terrible posted:If you're really concerned about bird poop, buy Poop Off for the dried-in stuff and keep paper towels handy for the fresh stuff. Bird poop is honestly not very messy at all and it only starts to stink if you're a huge goon and let it pile up. Otherwise, it's p. innocent. Posting from the past (good god you guys post a lot). As others have said bird poop is very easy to clean up, if you are fast you can remove it imminently with just a paper towel (from cloths and furniture). If not, it comes of cloths in the wash with out any special care (just throw them in), and off anything else with very little work (carpet kind of sucks but carpet kind of sucks to clean anyway). Poop Off is a good product and works well but is expensive. I have found that just cheap white vinegar works just as well, both are safe around birds (although the vinegar should be diluted).
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May 19, 2016 15:21
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Dried small parrot poop comes off completely with a damp dishcloth unless you are wearing white, then it can be a little harder/throw it in the wash
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May 19, 2016 15:24
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Eejit posted:The problem with attempting to make a bird stop screaming for attention is that it's one of their hardwired behaviors. It's not something you can condition out of them, because their brain has set neural pathways from birth that are, "if alone, scream until flock arrives or calls back." Making bird be alone in response to biting or other undesirable behaviors is definitely a great way to cause extinction of undesriable response, but you're never gonna make a bird not scream for attention. Well shoot  I hope I'm not messing up. Kiwi is super starved for affection all the time, so if I'm home, she wants to be with me. Even if she can see me, she screams for a long time (summoning behavior, like you said) and if I approach her to give treats during quiet time, she'll immediately start begging to get picked up/get upset again. Maybe I'm making my bird co-dependent
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May 19, 2016 16:29
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If you want a pet bird that isn't codependent, I think you need, like, a falcon.
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May 19, 2016 16:54
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My conures do tend to eat food as opposed to squishing the moisture out, though Ohtori does that with orange at least Regarding calling, mine are all pretty well behaved and don't yell too much-I ignore them when they scream if I'm not around, and tell them No/Be Nice/Quiet if I am in the room and they know now what those each mean in the noise context. Be Nice to Inko will make him kiss instead for example, Quiet makes them stop screaming and instead either just call/try talking or shut up entirely. Only Steve doesn't really understand what Quiet means, or maybe he's most persistent  I never, ever come if anyone is yelling and at this point it does seem like when they do it, it's out of frustration and checking rather than actually expecting it to work since we've been consistent about it all since day one for each of them.
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May 19, 2016 16:58
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Battle Pigeon posted:My conures do tend to eat food as opposed to squishing the moisture out, though Ohtori does that with orange at least Would you mind detailing how you trained on those three commands? I'm very new to the training aspect, since Sammy is generally well-behaved and Kiwi was just a struggle to get her out her cage for months.
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May 19, 2016 17:03
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Quiet - When they're yelling, in a moment when they're less loud or taking a breath, tell them firmly Quiet and if they make any reduction in noise instantly praise the hell out of them, instantly stop and go silent if they get worse. Eventually they get quieter and sort of grasp the idea you mean to make another sound (which happens to be quieter). Be Nice - Inko knows "kiss", and we used to go WOW VERY NICE!!! whenever he did it to encourage him to make that noise more than others, so he associated the word Nice with kissing of his own accord. So Be Nice = kiss to him. Be Kiss is the same thing, but Ohtori seems to get the idea of Be Nice (as we'd know it) himself from observation apparently so you can tell that to him too when he's getting lovely. For both of them it's more something they learnt themselves rather than a deliberate thing we set out to teach them. It would be similar for any bird-associate "nice" with something they were praised for, do that thing when they hear Nice or are told Be Nice, have it reinforced by the human No - Just the general concept, so say it when they're yelling or whatever, praise instantly if they stop With all of them, you really need to be careful about 1) timing, so that you don't accidentally encourage the thing you're trying to prevent-like accidentally rewarding the bird with attention (talking to them) when they're yelling, and 2) consistency because they WILL constantly test the boundaries you make, forever, it's just their thing. Not just consistency in your behaviour etc, but also reward! I'll frequently come into the room and give them all a little bit of nut while telling them they're Very Good Quiet Birds, praise Inko for kisses and words during the day, ignore any undesirable sounds, tell Inko No if he yells while I'm there and then praise the next good sound he makes. I'll also sometimes reward the other birds if one yells and the others are quiet- they seem to pick up on a few things when watching interactions with other birds, and jealousy is a powerful motivator  I did leave the room in the past if they were screaming and just wouldn't stop-they're calling for attention, yeah, but you have to retain your own sanity and patience too. I'd leave either in silence or just with a No, and not come back until there was silence for a few moments at least. Back when it was just Ohtori that did mean waiting for hours just for a gap of a few minutes to enter, but that small moment gives you something to build on, and it seems like it's provided a great foundation for the rest of his life.
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May 19, 2016 17:29
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My little booges know "inside voice". If I tell them "inside voice" they switch from screeching ot budgie burbles, and then I make a kissy noise at them. Right now they're both super poofy and burbling. I love my little birds so much.
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May 19, 2016 17:39
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Sociopastry posted:My little booges know "inside voice". If I tell them "inside voice" they switch from screeching ot budgie burbles, and then I make a kissy noise at them. I've never seen pictures of your budgie flock. How many do you have?
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May 19, 2016 17:44
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Sociopastry posted:My little booges know "inside voice". If I tell them "inside voice" they switch from screeching ot budgie burbles, and then I make a kissy noise at them.  How loud is budgie screaming anyway?(Ohtori is eating, Steve is puffed and napping, and Inko is... biting/"gagging" on the bars of his cage in rapid fire mode while going "nomnomnom")
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May 19, 2016 17:46
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Potato Salad posted:I've never seen pictures of your budgie flock. How many do you have?    The yellow one is Fuji, my little baby boy. He's the second budgie I got- he used to be the companion of my first bird, Tokyo who unfortunately passed away. the little blue one is Echo, who I think is female? but she's very young and so it's hard to tell. Also budgie screaming isn't too loud as far as birds go, but it's still annoying when I'm trying to nap or watch a movie. Edit: sorry about the lovely picture of Echo. She's still very unused to me and my phone scared her, so I didn't want to get too close. FluxFaun fucked around with this message at 18:05 on May 19, 2016 |
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May 19, 2016 18:02
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Sometimes instead of attacking his jingle balls like a rabid beast Ama likes to just hold them and shake them and chew on them a little. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrNN9lwsRMc e: I was hoping to get more of him shaking it since it's really funny watching him balance on one leg and shake a toy around awkwardly that's bigger than his head, but the biting is cute too e2: he started playing with it again so I took a better clip 
LITERALLY A BIRD fucked around with this message at 20:55 on May 19, 2016 |
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May 19, 2016 20:29
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The video is set as private
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May 19, 2016 21:12
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Why do conures do that, anyway? Ozy loves attacking those things. She'll ignore pretty much anything else to attack any jingly ball she sees, by which I mean grab it in her beak, headbang, then drop it. I can't leave them in her cage; they seem to make her temperamental. Like they're nesting materials, or eggs. But she doesn't destroy her eggs.
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May 19, 2016 21:17
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blackflare posted:The video is set as private I fixed it 
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May 19, 2016 21:23
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Pion sometimes has fits of rage where he grabs a jingly ball with his beak and flings it up, then runs over to where it landed, and repeats. He only does it in one of the cages, and almost never when I'm right next by it, so I've also never had an opportunity to film it.
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May 19, 2016 21:23
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I was always afraid to give my conure jingly balls. He just seemed so legitimately angry to get a hold of them. Does he actually just hate them and I only think he's playing 
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May 19, 2016 21:40
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Agent355 posted:I was always afraid to give my conure jingly balls. He just seemed so legitimately angry to get a hold of them. Does he actually just hate them and I only think he's playing Am I a bad person that I thought it was funny? I'd throw them over Sammy and watch him run all around the cage to savage the impudent round intruder.
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May 19, 2016 21:48
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Agent355 posted:I was always afraid to give my conure jingly balls. He just seemed so legitimately angry to get a hold of them. Does he actually just hate them and I only think he's playing I used to worry that Ama hated them too, but while the majority of jingle ball play is FAST AND ANGRY he also does stuff like in that video, and occasionally he rubs his cheek on them after particularly vicious play and purrs 
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May 19, 2016 21:52
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"WARRR-IORS.... Come out to pla-AY*SCREECH*"
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May 19, 2016 22:29
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Judah bit the poo poo out of me today  He's in full spring hormones mode still which means he's a cage territorial poo poo for a couple weeks, and as I was taking his empty seed dish out to refill he pinched my finger so hard it's still indented. Fucker. This is why you are getting your wings trimmed tomorrow.Oh man Look at his pleased little face.What a good bird UNLIKE SOME SCREAMING ASSHOLES I COULD NAME
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May 19, 2016 22:33
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Boop does the whole jingly thing, but isn't so adept at handling it, so it goes up and down awkwardly. She also attacks them furiously and eventually completely destroys them.
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May 19, 2016 22:34
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Judah doesn't really play with toys much, honestly. I've spent a small fortune in various kinds (someday I need to get a video of him trying to work out a foraging toy, it's kind of sad), but 90% of the time he just kind of chills. He's always been like that, I asked a vet about it and she just said he was healthy and obviously happy by his behavior, some birds just don't get into them. Now and then he'll gnaw on a shreddable toy, and he likes to play with a carabiner attached to one bar of his cage, just whacking it back and forth like some kind of noisy fuckerbird abacus. I don't have the heart to take it away despite the irritation, he loves it too much when he plays with it Almost all the time he ignores the bell toy off in the back of his cage near his sleep perch, but every couple nights (always at night), he just gets mad at it. Facebook relationship status: It's complicated.
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May 19, 2016 22:38
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Tendai posted:Judah bit the poo poo out of me today Biting sucks  One of the reasons I'm trying to train Kiwi more vigorously is cause she needs it a lot more, being a bigger bird. My phone went off a few nights ago and she went ape-poo poo, biting my upper arm three or four times super hard (I've got giant bruises and small scrapes there now) and this isn't the first time. I think she'll be more confident and less prone to panic if I can get a few set of ground rules instilled in her. Or maybe I'm a hopeless dreamer! Still love the bitey little jerk
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May 19, 2016 22:59
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Shirec posted:Well shoot I mean, you're not making her codependent if the species is just codependent. I solve this problem by just applying more affection more frequently to my GCC so that she's less likely to scream when I do have to put her down. Here's an idea. With zoo animals, you consider how much time a species spends doing different activities in the wild. So for instance, an elephant might spend 15% of their time socializing, 40% of their time foraging, 40% of their time sleeping, and 5% of their time doing other random stuff like bathing or whatever. Then you look at their behavior in captivity, and it contextualizes how much time they spend doing unpleasant or unhealthy behaviors (such as pacing or mutilating) versus doing what they'd normally be doing if they had grown up wild. For elephants in particular, they tend to not forage enough because their food is given to them in easy to eat formats like hay bales, and they fill up all the extra time by pacing and rocking. To me, if the bird is screaming at me a lot, it's because there's a gap in her schedule that normally would be spent socializing with the flock or foraging or something. Of course, from her point of view, it's not like she's like "oh this 4.3% of my time is empty, better scream". She's just bored with her toys and eating and bathing, and with watching me do my thing from a distance. She's feeling needy because there's not enough socialization happening in her day, which means she's sick of her toys and wants to hang out. So, I'm not going to necessarily go to her when she's screaming for me, because then she's gonna scream at me whenever she wants any little thing, but I'm going to increase the total amount of active attention time she gets in the day on average so that she isn't needing to scream for me.
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May 19, 2016 22:59
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nielsm posted:Pion sometimes has fits of rage where he grabs a jingly ball with his beak and flings it up, then runs over to where it landed, and repeats. He only does it in one of the cages, and almost never when I'm right next by it, so I've also never had an opportunity to film it. Steve does that too! He has a few different balls and sometimes just gets into a furious mood and flings them all everywhere He likes his foraging ball (with millet inside), one specific bell, one specific chewing toy, and a 5p metal ring attached to the bars I rarely ever see Ohtori play with anything in his cage, Inko does a bit though. Mostly they just eat and chill out in different spots
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May 19, 2016 23:04
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Shirec posted:Biting sucks Battle Pigeon posted:He likes his foraging ball (with millet inside), one specific bell, one specific chewing toy, and a 5p metal ring attached to the bars Steve sounds a lot more like Judah.Except that my potato Does Not Get foraging
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May 19, 2016 23:08
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Ama has a dozen different kinds of toys in his cage, both the hanging kind and foot toys. He plays with the jingle balls and with his spinny mirror thing. That's all. I think the only reason he even plays with that one is it's the same kind I got him when I brought him home. (this one)  There's one other toy he interacts with but he just uses it as a dinner bell :|
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May 19, 2016 23:12
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