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Chuck Boone posted:There's a video making the rounds on social media tonight showing a bunch of people ripping open garbage bags on the street and eating whatever scraps they find inside. The video looks like it was filmed in Caracas. Tbh dumpster diving is a goon honored tradition...
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May 20, 2016 03:32
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Chuck Boone posted:There's a video making the rounds on social media tonight showing a bunch of people ripping open garbage bags on the street and eating whatever scraps they find inside. The video looks like it was filmed in Caracas. I do believe I mentioned a little bit ago the entrepreneurial potential in selling mud, correct? I'd recommend reading my post historu in this thread and taking my advice. Certainly, better to eat mud than starve to death.
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May 20, 2016 03:43
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Not that I'm proud but when I was a poor punk kid I found some pretty sweet dumpster we sometimes dove into, if it's still a thing there's pizzeria in Altamira that has great poo poo check it out. The bitcoin thing is, again, likely to be a way for the richer folk living abroad to convert their Bolivares into an usable currency.
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May 20, 2016 07:07
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Sorry, if this sounds dim. But what's to stop a Venezuelan expat from mailing a book with some dollars or euros stuffed inside? Seems a lot easier than loving around with bitcoins.
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May 20, 2016 07:56
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BeigeJacket posted:Sorry, if this sounds dim. But what's to stop a Venezuelan expat from mailing a book with some dollars or euros stuffed inside? Seems a lot easier than loving around with bitcoins. If government employees only works 2 days I can't imagine it does much for the postal service.
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May 20, 2016 07:58
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someone i know sent a packaged cake Christmas 2014 with the correct address and was returned Christmas 2015 all smashed, somehow no one ate it. it had stamped wrong address. so i would not really send a book with money on it, unlikely to ever arrive.
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May 20, 2016 12:23
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For sending/receiving internationally in Venezuela, I use DHL.
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May 20, 2016 13:15
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Yeah DHL works great, they used to have a service where you could get something shipped here from any country in the world and you'd pay it in Bolivares once you got the package but there was a breaking point a couple years ago and they stopped offering that service. They are still the most reliable company to get stuff delivered here.
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May 20, 2016 13:21
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In failed states you get the double whammy of widespread crime and widespread vigilantism in response. The Venezuelan government has been unwilling and unable to do anything about basic safety and order for some time. They are to blame for this. http://bigstory.ap.org/article/49be3c89fe3d4ef990a944c323dffaab/mob-burns-venezuelan-man-alive-over-5-rule-law-fails
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May 20, 2016 13:53
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Since it looks like a dictatorship at this point, is the opposition doing anything to set up parallel institutions to try and resolve some of the supply/crime/vigilante issues?
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May 20, 2016 15:54
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GlyphGryph posted:Since it looks like a dictatorship at this point, is the opposition doing anything to set up parallel institutions to try and resolve some of the supply/crime/vigilante issues? The government has all the guns, all the money, and control any and all importations and exportations. The opposition has tried to get donated medicines from other countries to the people considering the government is willing to let people die of disease before striking a deal with them, but it is literally illegal to bring in medicines through unofficial channels.
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May 20, 2016 17:07
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fnox posted:The government has all the guns, all the money, and control any and all importations and exportations. The opposition has tried to get donated medicines from other countries to the people considering the government is willing to let people die of disease before striking a deal with them, but it is literally illegal to bring in medicines through unofficial channels. So set up some extra-territorial medical aid camps in Colombia, organize a militia, take and hold territory, and make Venezula functional again. It is up to the Venezuelan expatriate community to arm and organize themselves, so loving do it if you want to see suffering end in your country. Or don't, and watch your friends and family starve to death as the dumpsters run out of scraps. Your choice. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 20, 2016 17:13
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My Imaginary GF posted:So set up some extra-territorial medical aid camps in Colombia, organize a militia, take and hold territory, and make Venezula functional again. It is up to the Venezuelan expatriate community to arm and organize themselves, so loving do it if you want to see suffering end in your country. You're assuming that the people who might want to do this are a) able to travel to Columbia and b) that Columbia wants an armed group operating in their territory.
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May 20, 2016 17:56
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My Imaginary GF posted:So set up some extra-territorial medical aid camps in Colombia, organize a militia, take and hold territory, and make Venezula functional again. It is up to the Venezuelan expatriate community to arm and organize themselves, so loving do it if you want to see suffering end in your country. Jesus Christ your gimmick is stale.
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May 20, 2016 18:06
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-Troika- posted:You're assuming that the people who might want to do this are a) able to travel to Columbia and b) that Columbia wants an armed group operating in their territory. PSUV already operates in greater Columbia, tho. gently caress that bullshit. You needn't physically travel somewhere to organize any more. Technology and improvements in open-source methodology allow for some very innovative remote projecy management possibilities.
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May 20, 2016 18:30
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fnox posted:it is literally illegal to bring in medicines through unofficial channels. I know things are hosed up, but what is even the surface justification for something like this fnox posted:The government has all the guns, all the money
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May 20, 2016 18:35
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GlyphGryph posted:I know things are hosed up, but what is even the surface justification for something like this Government line: It's entirely unnecessary, we already have the second best healthcare system in the world after Cuba.
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May 20, 2016 18:41
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Maduro also signed a huge deal with an Indian pharmaceutical company who are banned in the US for violation of plenty of safety regulations, they also import medicines from Cuba and when they get here they are always about to expire... What they are doing is criminal and if there is a god they will have to pay for their constant human rights violations.
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May 20, 2016 19:05
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My Imaginary GF posted:PSUV already operates in greater Columbia, tho. gently caress that bullshit. "open source methodology" oh yeah I have my extranational insurgency distro somewhere here and I think they slipstreamed the drone protection patch into this version
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May 20, 2016 19:09
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GlyphGryph posted:I know things are hosed up, but what is even the surface justification for something like this To avoid black markets. Venezuela has a phenomenon caused by it's obsessive regulation of everything, that causes black markets to exist even for things as fundamental for life as food and medicines. The way they enforce this is through draconian laws and arresting people for having too many packs of rice. GlyphGryph posted:Aren't there armed alternate institutions (gangs) in control of various places, though? Is the government unable to deal with, or do they just let them be so long as they don't represent a political threat? Yeah, most of them are the Borneo Jimmy's favorites, the colectivos, which are armed by the government and are there to keep the "peace" in the largest cities of the country, operating from shantytowns. Naturally, they're entirely indistinguishable from regular thugs. Maduro attempted a novel new approach to tackling crime that was the official policy until recently. He created what he denominated "peace zones". Neighborhoods marked as peace zones would be out of bounds for the police, and the whole idea behind them is that by building basketball courts, baseball fields, and elementary schools in those areas (as well as by giving a small bounty to the delinquents), the criminals would give their guns voluntarily to the authorities. Of course, the "peace zones" ended up becoming hotbeds for crime, which would creep out onto the rest of the country. It's the same deal with the prisons, the prisons are deliberately left untouched by the police, thus, criminals operate from within them to coordinate their activities outside of them. This by Maduro's orders, mind you. My Imaginary GF posted:So set up some extra-territorial medical aid camps in Colombia, organize a militia, take and hold territory, and make Venezula functional again. It is up to the Venezuelan expatriate community to arm and organize themselves, so loving do it if you want to see suffering end in your country. You have the worst loving ideas possible on how to solve this crisis.
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May 20, 2016 19:16
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El Hefe posted:Maduro also signed a huge deal with an Indian pharmaceutical company who are banned in the US for violation of plenty of safety regulations, they also import medicines from Cuba and when they get here they are always about to expire... Most drugs are actually fine after expiration per various studies, some that are like mold based like penicillin may get bad or weak, but other than that. Now the Indian ones i would be terrified of.
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May 20, 2016 19:33
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Here is one way the crisis could be solved: the CIA starts an actual real plot (as opposed to the one that exists in Borneo Jimmy's head) to overthrow the Venezuelan government, suceeds in their plot, and installs a US-controlled puppet government. The new government then recieves more than enough clandestine funds from it's new masters to unfuck everything, even aside from being more competent and less evil than the current one.
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May 20, 2016 19:39
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-Troika- posted:Here is one way the crisis could be solved: the CIA starts an actual real plot (as opposed to the one that exists in Borneo Jimmy's head) to overthrow the Venezuelan government, suceeds in their plot, and installs a US-controlled puppet government. The new government then recieves more than enough clandestine funds from it's new masters to unfuck everything, even aside from being more competent and less evil than the current one. As loving terrible as this is on an ethical level, it would probably be the best for Venezuela, short-term. But I doubt it's going to happen, and since you guys are determined to elect a racist Muppet for president it seems like if the US wants to step in, it would be by less subtle means.
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May 20, 2016 20:32
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My Imaginary GF posted:So set up some extra-territorial medical aid camps in Colombia, organize a militia, take and hold territory, and make Venezula functional again. It is up to the Venezuelan expatriate community to arm and organize themselves, so loving do it if you want to see suffering end in your country. Now I get it. Your gimmick is that you're doing the retarded right wing schtick to counteract Borneo Jimmy's retarded left wing schtick.
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May 20, 2016 20:32
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Saladman posted:Now I get it. Your gimmick is that you're doing the retarded right wing schtick to counteract Borneo Jimmy's retarded left wing schtick. No, his gimmick is lovely conservative "political realism" in USPOL, too.
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May 20, 2016 20:38
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ComradeCosmobot posted:No, his gimmick is lovely conservative "political realism" in USPOL, too. That's his gimmick everywhere.
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May 20, 2016 20:42
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If there's a nega-Jimmy it's M. Discordia. MIGF is his own unique miracle of the universe.
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May 20, 2016 21:08
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-Troika- posted:Here is one way the crisis could be solved: the CIA starts an actual real plot (as opposed to the one that exists in Borneo Jimmy's head) to overthrow the Venezuelan government, suceeds in their plot, and installs a US-controlled puppet government. The new government then recieves more than enough clandestine funds from it's new masters to unfuck everything, even aside from being more competent and less evil than the current one. Venezuela has turned into a country that can't be ran by it's own people. To be fair I see no resolution to our conflicts without outside intervention.
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May 20, 2016 21:39
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fnox posted:
More like power fantasies than ideas, really.
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May 20, 2016 21:47
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fnox posted:Venezuela has turned into a country that can't be ran by it's own people. To be fair I see no resolution to our conflicts without outside intervention. That it's currently being run by a group of the wrong people does not mean the right people don't exist. Outside groups would lack legitimacy and run afoul of decades of propaganda anyways. But as has been mentioned, the guys in charge have all the guns, a lot of organized thugs, and enough useful idiots to make any transition a nightmare.
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May 20, 2016 22:13
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Warbadger posted:That it's currently being run by a group of the wrong people does not mean the right people don't exist. Outside groups would lack legitimacy and run afoul of decades of propaganda anyways. The thing is, the opposition isn't any better, and everyone in between is as horrible as the opposition, Maria Corina, Henri Falcon, or those bullshit conservative religious parties like NUVIPA or whatever.
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May 20, 2016 22:34
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-Troika- posted:Here is one way the crisis could be solved: the CIA starts an actual real plot (as opposed to the one that exists in Borneo Jimmy's head) to overthrow the Venezuelan government, suceeds in their plot, and installs a US-controlled puppet government. The new government then recieves more than enough clandestine funds from it's new masters to unfuck everything, even aside from being more competent and less evil than the current one. CIA doesn't initiate plots, it expands the capacity of local actors with logistical support and unlimited money. Have to be organized, operational local actors before you get American institutional support.
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May 20, 2016 22:45
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fnox posted:The thing is, the opposition isn't any better, and everyone in between is as horrible as the opposition, Maria Corina, Henri Falcon, or those bullshit conservative religious parties like NUVIPA or whatever. I understand this argument, but to me it sounds a whole lot like having cancer and choosing to not undergo chemotherapy because there's a chance it might kill you. Sure, chemotherapy is a horrible ordeal and there's a chance it could kill you, but if you don't undergo the treatment the cancer you've got is definitely going to kill you. Plus, you have to consider the fact that there are crappy people everywhere. There's no guarantee that whoever decides to step in will be good (and in fact, if we know anything from history it's that more often than not, outside intervention isn't conducted with the best intentions). -Troika- posted:Here is one way the crisis could be solved: the CIA starts an actual real plot (as opposed to the one that exists in Borneo Jimmy's head) to overthrow the Venezuelan government, suceeds in their plot, and installs a US-controlled puppet government. The new government then recieves more than enough clandestine funds from it's new masters to unfuck everything, even aside from being more competent and less evil than the current one. One of the problems with this line of thinking is that it's essentially an appeal to messianic hopes. Venezuela got into this mess primarily because it looked to a messiah to wave a wand around and fix everything. The solution to the crisis must come from Venezuela. I find it impossible to believe that there isn't a group of Venezuelans willing and capable of turning things around. These Venezuelans might be just children today, or perhaps not even yet born. Rebuilding the country is going to be a generational project. It will take an immense amount of hard work, sacrifice and lots of bumps along the way, but I truly believe that if we're concerned about the well-being of the country not just in the next year, or five years, but in the next twenty five and fifty years, a made-in-Venezuela solution is the only feasible one.
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May 21, 2016 00:13
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-Troika- posted:the CIA ... installs a US-controlled puppet government. ... more competent and less evil .... I don't think you understand how this works.
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May 21, 2016 00:16
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A few pages back now, but thanks for the answers. This one in particular--Chuck Boone posted:
--is, well, terrifying. Those videos of people scavenging from the garbage are just the start, aren't they...
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May 21, 2016 00:54
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Tree Bucket posted:Those videos of people scavenging from the garbage are just the start, aren't they... 
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May 21, 2016 01:14
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[quote="Chuck Boone" post="460117790" One of the problems with this line of thinking is that it's essentially an appeal to messianic hopes. Venezuela got into this mess primarily because it looked to a messiah to wave a wand around and fix everything. [/quote] Absolutely true -- and the consequences will be felt for years. We've seen countries like Russia where the bottom continued to fall out of the communist system through the 90s, and this became a pretext to stop the dismantling process and keep the old state apparatus largely intact while welcoming in a right-wing strongman. Venezuela of course must Kill All Communists to emerge from its current situation, but that is a first step, not a final one. Building/rebuilding democratic institutions and the rule of law will be hard work with stops and starts and setbacks, and it can be hard to sell that to a population already so abused as opposed to the fantasy of the man on the white horse.
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May 21, 2016 01:38
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True communists and socialists are few and far between, what we have a lot here are opportunists.
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May 21, 2016 02:05
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Coke Has Suspended All Production in Venezuela As the nation’s economy teeters on the brink Coca-Cola FEMSA has suspended all production in Venezuela because of a sugar shortage, the Mexican beverage multinational said in a statement. Last month, Polar Group, Venezuela’s largest food and beverage company and biggest private company overall, said it would suspend production of beer and other malt beverages because of a lack of barley. http://fortune.com/2016/05/20/coke-venezuela-suspends/ Things are only going to get worse.
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May 21, 2016 02:25
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You know poo poo is hosed in a country when they don't even have coca cola.
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May 21, 2016 02:30
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