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Also I don't understand Shen's minigame at all as someone who hasn't played him yet, which I'm pretty sure is a readability failing on Riot's part There's sometimes an uninteractable sword on the ground, and occasionally it instantly flies to him and he gets a shield? Or something? I'm not sure what "counterplay" exists for it, nor do I care because he's either too tanky to be a first priority, or real easy to burst down.
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May 22, 2016 18:47
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Neurolimal posted:Poppy's kit wasn't broken, it just made tradeoffs for the privilege of being a terrifying lategame assassin that could be tanky and immune to 4/5 enemies for a while Neurolimal posted:Also I don't understand Shen's minigame at all as someone who hasn't played him yet, which I'm pretty sure is a readability failing on Riot's part Now his trading feels so clunky and it's just not much fun in general because you've got to position yourself constantly in a way that dragging his dumb spooky blade around does damage. RealFoxy fucked around with this message at 18:50 on May 22, 2016 |
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May 22, 2016 18:47
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full disclosure: i once won 15 games in a row as shen top in plat so i am very biased about how cool and good old shen was my biggest problem with new shen was that it felt like in long drawn out fights you were forced to use your first taunt as a flash taunt because if you missed it you would run out of energy since his energy is tied heavily to hitting taunt and/or attacking people with q on. shen feels like cassiopia to me in that the rework just made him feel worse to play and he already had a very solid position in both public and competitive play without being a top pick or ban. like i think the reason i find it so frustrating is mostly because there are champs in the game that could have used some developers time much more efficiently. i think old shen could be kind of boring to lane against since he pretty much would just spam q and be unkillable no matter what but new shen is just worse against ranged champs and vs melee he puts down the field and you can't fight him, its not really some kind of super interactive lane.
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May 22, 2016 18:48
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Old shen was pretty cool because he actually felt similar to his art/voice; an aloof ninja that waits for the right moment to show up out of the jungle to save allies and pull Wacky Ninja Antics, or he laned and threw swords at people from the bushes. Does new shen still have AP ratios? Giving a focused carry a 1500 damage shield was always hilarious As for being a problem: last time I played he was in a balanced place, he had a niche he was really good at but could be countered and needed to be built around, similar to old Veigar or old Twisted Fate. He wasn't really a Kassadini situation outside of Season 1.
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May 22, 2016 18:54
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Really, I think Riot's obsession with removing targetted abilities has caused more problems on reworked heroes than solutions. Sometimes an ability needs to be targetted because it has punishingly low range or is required to set up the rest of their skills, and giving it a longer range skillshot results in a schizophrenic "long range god" or "beaten by standing next to creeps" situation. He's been overshadowed by the nuts Malzahar and Zyra reworks, but all the compensation to make up for gutting Veigar's Q and E have resulted in a hero who often gets 100+ AP on top of item AP by the end of the laning phase, a large section of which generated from fat air on top of farming. Neurolimal fucked around with this message at 19:01 on May 22, 2016 |
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May 22, 2016 18:57
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what's the point in having a sword if you can't slice people up with it it's like if cloud in ff7 could only cast fruity spells
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May 22, 2016 19:02
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http://plays.tv/video/5741b992b5701efeb5/hehe-xd
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May 22, 2016 19:03
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Rengo Paaaaaunch
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May 22, 2016 19:05
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veigar support is good if you have teammates that arent bad
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May 22, 2016 19:16
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Tired Moritz posted:veigar support is good if you have teammates that arent bad Who said otherwise?
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May 22, 2016 19:31
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Veigar support is the most fun I've had in this game
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May 22, 2016 19:50
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frajaq posted:Veigar support is the most fun I've had in this game I was surprised by the new buffs because they have shown nothing but scorn towards Veigar as a support, and then they give him a new passive that lets him farm off harass and synergizes with frost queen. I still dont like the ult change though; more reliable? Sure. But a lot of its interesting elements came from being a unique ability that scaled with the enemy mages, allowing either a dramatic midlane comeback, or a terrifying underfed support laner. Now it's just a typical 0.8 nuke, that turns into garen's ult. Neurolimal fucked around with this message at 20:13 on May 22, 2016 |
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May 22, 2016 19:54
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e:stupid awful app
gvibes fucked around with this message at 15:52 on May 23, 2016 |
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May 22, 2016 20:21
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Mystery Prize posted:Down 15 kills, 6 towers, an inhib, a fire dragon, two water dragons, every laner down by ~30-60 cs, and we can't leave our base or the 14 kill leblanc one shots one of us due to no vision: if people recognize that you're being an rear end in a top hat and playing flippantly to try to lose more quickly they will absolutely vote no on surrender votes and draw the game out as much as they can to egg you on
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May 22, 2016 20:29
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I'm surprised at how rarely I see the Support Statik Shiv; 50% crit chance for 8 seconds seems like a pretty great bonus if you can coordinate itemization for your carry. And both the crit chance and 20% AP could work well for a duo queue top + jungle strat.
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May 22, 2016 20:30
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DolphinCop posted:if people recognize that you're being an rear end in a top hat and playing flippantly to try to lose more quickly they will absolutely vote no on surrender votes and draw the game out as much as they can to egg you on I genuinely vote No on surrenders if the person calling them is an rear end in a top hat, precisely so that noone else has to deal with them (at least for a few extra minutes).
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May 22, 2016 20:31
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RealFoxy posted:The mini game makes sense, it's just not fun. You drag around his sword with your abilities and when it goes through a unit it causes damage. The issue with the Shen rework is they just ended up adding a gimmick to all of his abilities and he's been played a lot less since the rework because it was just needlessly complicated. I used to main Shen support and it was effective because he was melee but had ranged poke, he could sustain and tank damage in all-ins, and he was very effective at snowballing other lanes. Shen's sword pull actually never does damage. If they're hit by the flying sword they're slowed IF they're moving away from Shen, and the enhanced autos are extra enhanced. They turned him from kind of a ninja into some sort of weird dude dragging a sword around like a dog leashed to a heavy object.
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May 22, 2016 20:34
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BigLeafyTree posted:Shen's sword pull actually never does damage. If they're hit by the flying sword they're slowed IF they're moving away from Shen, and the enhanced autos are extra enhanced. They turned him from kind of a ninja into some sort of weird dude dragging a sword around like a dog leashed to a heavy object. Yeah, I was confused by that post too. So what you're saying is that they gave him a hilariously situational and weaker version of Trynd's slow, and its counterintuitive with his taunt? No wonder I wasn't able to figure out what the hell that thing is about.
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May 22, 2016 20:36
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like i cant imagine someone at riot played new shen and was like "yeah this is really fun and interesting!" its like some designer cranked it out in 5 minutes because SHEN = ANTI-FUN had been written on a whiteboard somewhere since 2010 and that guy hadn't actually done any work in 5 years and he heard they were gonna start doing peer reviews.
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May 22, 2016 20:57
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the whole shen thing is actually kinda infuriating because they literally said 'yeah, new shen sucks and isn't fun,' and when someone asked if they were going to fix it they were like 'no, we'll just take it as a lesson for the future' meanwhile ryze is on his seventh rework
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May 22, 2016 21:08
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Endorph posted:the whole shen thing is actually kinda infuriating because they literally said 'yeah, new shen sucks and isn't fun,' and when someone asked if they were going to fix it they were like 'no, we'll just take it as a lesson for the future' Because the pro scene loving loves Ryze
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May 22, 2016 21:10
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Radiantweasel posted:Because the pro scene loving loves Ryze Same reason Lee and Ahri get kid gloves. Meanwhile other heroes get kneejerk nerfs because they did well in an unconventional strategy in one match of one tourney. I'm surprised they didn't nerf Kennen after he showed up as a safe bot lane carry in the finals of one tourney.
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May 22, 2016 21:17
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Endorph posted:the whole shen thing is actually kinda infuriating because they literally said 'yeah, new shen sucks and isn't fun,' and when someone asked if they were going to fix it they were like 'no, we'll just take it as a lesson for the future' when did they comment on new shen?
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May 22, 2016 21:17
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i read the post about shen in question but i forget exactly where it was. ryze probably need to not have point and click cc if hes also going to be a late game scaling mage. i dont think both of those things can co-exist in harmony.
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May 22, 2016 21:32
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a couple of months ago, when they were discussing the season so farquote:Shen’s our most recent update and so far seems to be both fairly balanced and has improved game health compared to his previous kit. Overall, however, we don’t think he’s completely hit the mark thematically, with the floating sword feeling a bit disconnected from his fantasy. It’s not something we have plans to change - there are other champions that would benefit significantly more from having update time spent on them - but a lesson for when we take on future projects.
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May 22, 2016 21:32
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'improved game health' means 'nobody picks him anymore'
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May 22, 2016 21:33
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my beautiful disconnected end game fantasy
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May 22, 2016 21:41
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May 22, 2016 21:46
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countdown until Malzahar needs to walk to a vorpal blade before he can use his ult, also zyra needs to throw seeds at a tree that looks suspiciously like a retextured sword to make them sprout Huh, I guess that delay on ult activation really was Swain's winrate issue. Also lol at Taliyah. Her entire kit feels like a worse version of Ziggs, that they tacked on after getting the idea for a hero that travels on a wall
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May 22, 2016 21:47
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why Karthus?
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May 22, 2016 21:48
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a loving 51% play rate hahaha
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May 22, 2016 21:50
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I want to hear the designer's justification for making her poke do less damage when utilizing its gimmick. "what if the hero....zoned herself???"
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May 22, 2016 21:52
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Tired Moritz posted:why Karthus? when played correctly he is super safe and he doesn't need to roam to be effective
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May 22, 2016 21:53
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if you don't ban lucian you're part of the problem
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May 22, 2016 21:54
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Neurolimal posted:I want to hear the designer's justification for making her poke do less damage when utilizing its gimmick.
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May 22, 2016 21:54
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Neurolimal posted:I want to hear the designer's justification for making her poke do less damage when utilizing its gimmick. she zoned herself right out of play because I haven't seen her since release day.
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May 22, 2016 21:56
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Sperglord Firecock posted:when played correctly he is super safe and he doesn't need to roam to be effective Yeah, and he has Singed's laning gimmick where melee enemies chasing him away take damage without him needing to turn around and hit them. And after they stop chasing he can drop his wall and put out even more harass. At least, that's been my experience on TT in the past. Half the fun is seeing your team have a heart attack at the idea of Weakmage vs. Top Bruisers.
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May 22, 2016 21:56
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also the designer for taliyah keeps making tweets like https://twitter.com/danielzklein/status/733832971518513154 https://twitter.com/danielzklein/status/733069241008553984
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May 22, 2016 22:00
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Endorph posted:also the designer for taliyah keeps making tweets like has he ever been in one of those "watch riot employees get crushed by professional tweaked-out players!" pre-tourney games, because that would make this funnier
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May 22, 2016 22:11
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no but back when tank ekko was becoming a thing he made a ton of tweets about how 'pros aren't always right' and 'ap ekko is way stronger' which is basically the same thing
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May 22, 2016 22:13
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