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bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


The problem is that everyone is told this is a solved issue and apparently it is not.

Second phase of E911 explicitly has location data as part of what's transmitted to the call center.

If the data isn't being transmitted, that's the carrier's fault and they should be fined for every omission.

If the data is incorrect that's transmitted to the call center, that's a carrier issue. They should be able to pass on GPS info from phones made in the last 10 years. If the handset does not have a GPS lock, then they should be able to do some form of tower assisted location. If the accuracy of such info is not consistent with what the technology is capable of, then they need to be fined.

And, in fact, carriers had a deadline of 95% accuracy by 2006 and a number were fined for not hitting it. There's no reason why we can't ratchet up the percentage again and fine again.

If the call center cannot receive or interpret location data, then it's an equipment issue and funds need to be allocated to resolve it.

We have a standard though, it's E911. Improving the accuracy of location data needs to be thrust upon the carriers. All the call centers need to do is be able to consume it.

In the end, the solution is to give the carriers a swift kick in the rear end and point at their record profits when they claim updating their networks to supply accurate location data is too expensive. Stop granting them waivers on compliance. Force them to get it done.

bull3964 fucked around with this message at 18:44 on May 17, 2016

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Sivart13
May 18, 2003
I have neglected to come up with a clever title

bull3964 posted:

Second phase of E911 explicitly has location data as part of what's transmitted to the call center.
Out of curiosity, is this something you work with professionally? It would've been nice to see the show go into a little more detail about what data gets sent over the wire from where.

It would be neat if this was something that the device manufacturers could have a hand in fixing as well, like the way Apple supposedly pushed on carriers during the introduction of Visual Voicemail.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


Sivart13 posted:

Out of curiosity, is this something you work with professionally?

No, it's pretty public knowledge at this point. It was a big stink in 2005 when carriers would refuse to activate older phones on their network if they weren't E911 compatible.

At the end of the day, the carriers are reaping massive profits by explicitly not having to maintain the last mile copper infrastructure. Verizon, in particular, is borderline sabotaging it in places to force people to switch to wireless or digital voice.

I can't even have a traditional land line at my house because Verizon removed the copper going to it when they installed FiOS. It's digital voice or wireless. No more POTS.

Basically, they broke it and they are profiting from it. It should be their financial burden to fix it.

FetusSlapper
Jan 6, 2005

by exmarx

bull3964 posted:

No, it's pretty public knowledge at this point. It was a big stink in 2005 when carriers would refuse to activate older phones on their network if they weren't E911 compatible.

At the end of the day, the carriers are reaping massive profits by explicitly not having to maintain the last mile copper infrastructure. Verizon, in particular, is borderline sabotaging it in places to force people to switch to wireless or digital voice.

I can't even have a traditional land line at my house because Verizon removed the copper going to it when they installed FiOS. It's digital voice or wireless. No more POTS.

Basically, they broke it and they are profiting from it. It should be their financial burden to fix it.

I'd still be using my StarTac flip phone to this day if Verizon would let me activate it.

M_Gargantua
Oct 16, 2006

STOMP'N ON INTO THE POWERLINES

Exciting Lemon
I think one of the biggest hurdles is the limitation of voice call transmission. Even the most modern mobile codecs still have garbage quality encoding. (Most carriers intentionally use the worst sound quality they can get away with because its cheaper for them) Because of that there is a huge technical difficulty with encoding live GPS data as sound data to pass over the line. So your choice there is essentially to make a 911 call on mobile hardware have a very low bit rate dialup connection overlayed, which requires hardware to do that on both ends.

The simplest stop gap would be to incorporate SMS. Its an established standard across all the carriers. Its uniform enough that a standard piece of hardware could be made for every 911 center. All phones can simply have a software update to implement a simple rule: When you place a 911 call send a SMS with your GPS coordinates and let the carrier route it to the same call center.

Wouldn't be perfect but the infrastructure and encoding standards exist to make it fairly straightforward.

Kevyn
Mar 5, 2003

I just want to smile. Just once. I'd like to just, one time, go to Disney World and smile like the other boys and girls.
Is there a list of states that allow you to call 911 from a landline regardless of whether or not you actually have service? I don't want to call 911 just to test it, but it would be nice to know before I find myself in an emergency situation.

Mortanis
Dec 28, 2005

It's your father's lightsaber. This is the weapon of a Jedi Knight.
College Slice

M_Gargantua posted:

I think one of the biggest hurdles is the limitation of voice call transmission. Even the most modern mobile codecs still have garbage quality encoding. (Most carriers intentionally use the worst sound quality they can get away with because its cheaper for them) Because of that there is a huge technical difficulty with encoding live GPS data as sound data to pass over the line. So your choice there is essentially to make a 911 call on mobile hardware have a very low bit rate dialup connection overlayed, which requires hardware to do that on both ends.

The simplest stop gap would be to incorporate SMS. Its an established standard across all the carriers. Its uniform enough that a standard piece of hardware could be made for every 911 center. All phones can simply have a software update to implement a simple rule: When you place a 911 call send a SMS with your GPS coordinates and let the carrier route it to the same call center.

Wouldn't be perfect but the infrastructure and encoding standards exist to make it fairly straightforward.

Yeah. It's 2016 and I STILL have to use NATO phonetic spelling to give customers passwords over the phone because even on "top notch" VOIP call quality is just that bad. Including data (somehow) on that to a 911 center is going to need a pretty big rewire of everything, which it sounds like it needs anyway.

Piggybacking SMS seems like it should work as a short term, though it'd require another generation of phones to do it. Arguably worth it until a full, nation-wide system could be rolled out (unlikely).

Are other countries experiencing the same level of crap or have others figured out a good way to implement emergency services?

coyo7e
Aug 23, 2007

by zen death robot

swickles posted:

Now is a good time for my PSA about 911 and phones. No matter where you live, but especially if you live in an apartment building, spend the ten bucks to by a landline phone. Even if you don't have service, almost all states require 911 access to be free for any phone plugged into a jack. Also, they are easily identifiable for locations. If you live alone and start choking on food or can't talk, just pick up the phone, dial 911 and start breaking dishes. That is the code for I can't talk and need help now. The point is for 10 bucks, you can avoid a lot of the pitfalls you saw on that segment.
As an aside but a key detail: make sure it's a corded phone, not a cordless one. The cordless ones plug into a base which requires juice or you can't get the receiver to pick up a dialtone. So just go to goodwill or something and buy some cheapass plastic banana phone, which will work during an outage of the energy infrastructure.

Riot Bimbo
Dec 28, 2006


This is not useful if you live in a city but if you need immediate help, in rural Texas, dispatch may handle multiple cities so calling 911 goes through like two different chains and it takes that much longer to get the ambulance, which may be half a mile down the road, to your house. At that point it may literally be faster to run there and get help for someone but I know I can call my city dispatch directly and get an ambulance much faster than 911, and I've had to punch those numbers many times more than most people will in their lives.

Under stress/duress and immediate danger, 911 will get you someone notified of your problem critical seconds faster, and you should always do that, but if you have a working phone in an area with reception and can get to a contact in as much time, sometimes it's better to call city dispatch

Zero One
Dec 30, 2004

HAIL TO THE VICTORS!
100% Canadian

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:

Grimey Drawer
This is the most Canadian thing to ever happen.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:

Grimey Drawer
Wait a minute the McLaughlin Group is still around? John McLaughlin is still ALIVE?

Zero One
Dec 30, 2004

HAIL TO THE VICTORS!
:ohdear: Stay safe, puppy.

Gonz
Dec 22, 2009

"Jesus, did I say that? Or just think it? Was I talking? Did they hear me?"
I have not seen Kadyrov's cat.

Veskit
Mar 2, 2005

I love capitalism!! DM me for the best investing advice!
Those comments are so full of :salt: from Bernie supporters over facts like these are the vote counts it's loving great.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.

Maxwell Lord posted:

Wait a minute the McLaughlin Group is still around? John McLaughlin is still ALIVE?

I saw an episode randomly a couple of weeks ago. It was like sitting in the recroom of a retirement home listing to a bunch of people ramble angrily. McLaughlin spent most of the episode completely unengaged and at one point clearly lost all track of what was happened because he had this exchange (paraphrased from memory) with Pat Buchanan.

McLaughlin: Do you know how many transgendered people there are in America?
Buchanan: About X thousand.
McLaughlin: There are X thousand transgendered in America. Are you surprised?
Buchana: No. That's what I said.
McLaughlin: You didn't know that, did you?

Then they all stared at him for a few seconds before he gave his next rehearsed transition.

Also I don't remember seeing him move once and I started to wonder if he was paraplegic or just very tired.

The whole thing was really just kind of depressing.

STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 19:07 on May 23, 2016

Echo Chamber
Oct 16, 2008

best username/post combo
Well at least John Oliver isn't popularizing any myths regarding the superdelegates like "of course they'll vote for the winner of the most pledged delegates even in a close race, and they're only there in case of a Trump or Edwards-like scenario."

Bernie flip flopping on superdelegates is just another sign that supers are a farce.

I remembered someone here earlier described LWT as a whole as an expose on how much power we arbitrarily give to the states when it comes to some things. The same is true for the national parties. I'm not for a single national primary day; but I'm talking about how the parties have like 56 different rules on how delegates are allocated to candidates.

Echo Chamber fucked around with this message at 19:16 on May 23, 2016

Azhais
Feb 5, 2007
Switchblade Switcharoo

Echo Chamber posted:

I'm not for a single national primary day; but I'm talking how the parties have like 56 different rules on how delegates are allocated to candidates.

Single primary day wouldn't be going far enough. To hell with the primaries! Put anyone that wants to be there on the presidential ballot. Don't put party affiliation on the ballot. Axe the EC too while we're at it.

Taylor Swift 2028

qbert
Oct 23, 2003

It's both thrilling and terrifying.
I think one of the things people tend to forget is that, at least in theory, the Democratic party and the Republican party are meant to just be two out of a theoretical limitless number of parties vying for their candidates' election to office. Parties don't actually have any legislative requirements as to how they nominate their candidates, so in essence the American people in general don't really have any legal say in the primary process beyond whatever arbitrary system each party decides to implement.

Primary votes sort-of matter, but not really, because the Republican and Democratic parties aren't technically government bodies or institutions.

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.
Popular vote for primaries, popular vote for the general.

Veskit posted:

Those comments are so full of :salt: from Bernie supporters over facts like these are the vote counts it's loving great.

Most Bernie supporters are youth. Most Youtube commenters are youth. Bernie is losing the election. Do the math.

qbert posted:

I think one of the things people tend to forget is that, at least in theory, the Democratic party and the Republican party are meant to just be two out of a theoretical limitless number of parties vying for their candidates' election to office. Parties don't actually have any legislative requirements as to how they nominate their candidates, so in essence the American people in general don't really have any legal say in the primary process beyond whatever arbitrary system each party decides to implement.

Primary votes sort-of matter, but not really, because the Republican and Democratic parties aren't technically government bodies or institutions.
Exactly.

Echo Chamber
Oct 16, 2008

best username/post combo
Well John did say it's up to convincing the party chairs to look into it, not any lawmaker or presidential candidate, etc.

M_Gargantua
Oct 16, 2006

STOMP'N ON INTO THE POWERLINES

Exciting Lemon

qbert posted:

I think one of the things people tend to forget is that, at least in theory, the Democratic party and the Republican party are meant to just be two out of a theoretical limitless number of parties vying for their candidates' election to office. Parties don't actually have any legislative requirements as to how they nominate their candidates, so in essence the American people in general don't really have any legal say in the primary process beyond whatever arbitrary system each party decides to implement.

Primary votes sort-of matter, but not really, because the Republican and Democratic parties aren't technically government bodies or institutions.

The core issue is not the parties, but that the US voting system mathamatically encourages only two canidates, and hence two parties.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo explains it well. You can't beat the math in the currently established system.

Woebin
Feb 6, 2006



Also:

Woebin fucked around with this message at 20:54 on May 23, 2016

tarlibone
Aug 1, 2014

Am I a... bad person?
Am I???
Fun Shoe
Well, he may be a monster, but he does have a point: here in America, unevenly breathe to younger friends. Not just his friends, either, but to all friends. America unevenly breathe to younger friends.

Josh Lyman
May 24, 2009


Normally, I might say that trolling a country's president can be irresponsible, but it seems Kadyrov doesn't spend much time governing so it's kosher.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

I can see asking your constituency to look out for your cat for you as a bit of a goofy move to humanize yourself to voters. The whole sucking up to Putin is perfectly understandable for an autonomous federal subject of Russia close to the border and smaller than New Jersey. I'm sure if Obama had a reputation for brutally crushing his enemies and potentially assassinating his critics, more Republican governors would be snuggling up to him.

As for the primaries, honestly, they are a messy, broken system, but introducing more oversight to try to be fair would mean making them bigger and more drawn out and more campaigning and more news coverage and having the names of people who will literally never matter to you ever again repeated ad infinitum, and I couldn't take that.

If the primaries are unfairly rigged, then Hillary is in the better position to benefit from them being rigged, but if anything, this whole cycle is an argument in favor of more restrictive primaries so no idiot not-a-politician reality TV show judge can waltz right in and take everything.

M_Gargantua
Oct 16, 2006

STOMP'N ON INTO THE POWERLINES

Exciting Lemon

SlothfulCobra posted:

If the primaries are unfairly rigged, then Hillary is in the better position to benefit from them being rigged, but if anything, this whole cycle is an argument in favor of more restrictive primaries so no idiot not-a-politician reality TV show judge can waltz right in and take everything.

So you're saying that you want the political class to be more elitist and unrepresentative of the constituency than they already are?

Beefed Owl
Sep 13, 2007

Come at me scrub-lord I'm ripped!
The stuff people have been putting in the hashtag has been glorious. A worthy waste of time.

Snowglobe of Doom
Mar 30, 2012

sucks to be right
Web exclusive content

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcA_j23HuDU

SCheeseman
Apr 23, 2003

Uh, did they directly lift the bread pants joke from China, IL?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcrDZs2n1C8

cant cook creole bream
Aug 15, 2011
I think Fahrenheit is better for weather
Nobody watched this?

Man, buying debt at 1/200 of the price seems like quite a bargain.
And I'm happy for those 9000 people.

cant cook creole bream fucked around with this message at 07:10 on Jun 6, 2016

claw game handjob
Mar 27, 2007

pinch pinch scrape pinch
ow ow fuck it's caught
i'm bleeding
JESUS TURN IT OFF
WHY ARE YOU STILL SMILING

Air is lava! posted:

Nobody watched this?

East coast feed hosed up for me, so we've gotta catch it in an hour.

Jonas Albrecht
Jun 7, 2012


Holy loving poo poo. John Oliver is an amazing, beautiful rat-faced man.

Nostalgia4Butts
Jun 1, 2006

WHERE MY HOSE DRINKERS AT

END ME SCOOB posted:

East coast feed hosed up for me, so we've gotta catch it in an hour.

yeah my DVR recording died halfway through

Jonas Albrecht
Jun 7, 2012


Air is lava! posted:

And I'm happy for those 9000 people.

9,000 people holding 14 million in debt seems staggeringly odd to me.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


Jonas Albrecht posted:

9,000 people holding 14 million in debt seems staggeringly odd to me.

Why? That's only like $1550 a person.

Ultraklystron
May 19, 2010

Unsafe At Every Speed
Yeah that's a little over 1500 in medical debt a head? That's an ER visit for a sprained ankle in the US.

e;fb.

Jonas Albrecht
Jun 7, 2012


bull3964 posted:

Why? That's only like $1550 a person.

Haha, I guess the reason is because I hosed up on some basic division.

cant cook creole bream
Aug 15, 2011
I think Fahrenheit is better for weather

Jonas Albrecht posted:

9,000 people holding 14 million in debt seems staggeringly odd to me.
The thing with debt is, once you have it it just keeps piling on. An average of 15000 dollar debt doesn't sound unreasonable to me. And that is most likely debt from really poor people. If the debt business expected them to be able to pay it off in their lifetime, they wouldn't sell that stuff for that price.

Huh, I made the same mistake initially.

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zzMisc
Jun 26, 2002

If John Oliver can forgive $14+ million debt by buying it up for under $60k, imagine what a wealthy philanthropist could do for half a million!

...forgive $120+ million debt. That's what they could do.


Instead, they're investing in things like bitcoin technologies.



...gently caress this world

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