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Ron Jeremy posted:I've got a bunch of FB friends on and around the SJPD and they're absolutely losing their poo poo. "The criminals have won" is the general refrain. Ugh the us vs them mentality with police just seems to keep getting worse and there's no end in sight. It's a positive reinforcement loop too, and I don't see how the cycle ends. I was in the mission district a few weeks ago and saw the hunger strikers out in front of the police station. It was impressive, and I heard a few really impactful stories of police brutality from the protesters there. I don't know how you can look at them and go "WOW WHAT CRIMINAL LOVING LAZY PEOPLE I BET THEY DON'T EVEN HAVE JOBS OR PAY TAXES"
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May 22, 2016 17:24
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IllIllIll posted:"WOW WHAT CRIMINAL LOVING LAZY PEOPLE I BET THEY DON'T EVEN HAVE JOBS OR PAY TAXES" This is a major cultural issue in the US. Private for-profit prisons and a voting population that favors punishment/revenge over rehabilitation. People automatically think that anybody that gets caught up with police or the justice system is some criminal scumbag that deserves nothing but the worst treatment. Americans look at places like Norway and laugh that their prisons are college dorms. We want our inmates to be dehumanized, and that ripples through society and our police forces reflect that desire.
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May 22, 2016 19:43
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Tuxedo Gin posted:This is a major cultural issue in the US. Private for-profit prisons and a voting population that favors punishment/revenge over rehabilitation. It all circles back to the NIMBY poo poo that is one of this culture's current biggest problems. Criminals are the other that no one has in their family's backyard. Until they do. But no one cares about your plight once you're a criminal or have on in your family because OBVIOUSLY YOU ARE GUILTY.
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May 22, 2016 20:49
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Bizarro Watt posted:HSR would be such a boon to California and the country in general that it frustrates me to no end that I keep seeing this. Though it seems a lot of the delays and costs are from the legal battles that came out of it. It took years to finalize and build a water desalination plant in San Diego because fish might get hurt and sick by its intake tubes and concentrated reject, so it doesn't surprise me there's a bunch of legal property, right of way, noise, and environmental hurdles to building a rail line.
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May 22, 2016 20:49
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jeeves posted:It all circles back to the NIMBY poo poo that is one of this culture's current biggest problems. Criminals are the other that no one has in their family's backyard. Until they do. But no one cares about your plight once you're a criminal or have on in your family because OBVIOUSLY YOU ARE GUILTY. A big part of this stems from the myth, taught from the very earliest years and through out our elementary school system, that we have a fair judicial system. Because of the jury trials, you see, you get a trial by your peers, and you have a right to remain silent and a right to an attorney, etc. etc. And our long-standing love of police procedurals on TV teaches us that the cops are the good guys, they're fair, every investigation involves a dozen people in a crime lab being super-thorough about everything, and the good guys who weren't guilty always get identified and freed by those super smart and hard working and fair-minded crime scene investigators. It all feeds into the same myth, the idea that in America, if you're innocent you'll be treated fairly and freed and there will be no further repurcussions, and that most likely if you were even arrested you were probably guilty. We have to stop feeding this lie to everyone from birth if we want to actually change anything significantly.
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May 22, 2016 21:01
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I'm not sure if socializing the next generation to feel depressed, powerless, angry, or antisocial, to believe that laws and regulations are unjust dictations set by those on high to gently caress over those below, will spur unity within these United States.
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May 22, 2016 21:14
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Triglav posted:It took years to finalize and build a water desalination plant in San Diego because fish might get hurt and sick by its intake tubes and concentrated reject, so it doesn't surprise me there's a bunch of legal property, right of way, noise, and environmental hurdles to building a rail line. Pretty much. Every single project will get tied up in courts, appeals, more appeals, and a whole bunch of other poo poo that will just keep getting thrown at any project from every angle. Eminent domain is hugely contentious and costly with I'm sure legal fights out the wazoo for every drat piece, and of course anti-rail groups tossing as much "environmental" lawsuits to kill/delay it the best they can. It's a bit sad that environmental impact regulation is mostly just used to derail (  ) any sort of construction ever.e: Here was a good article http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/how-an-environmental-law-is-harming-the-environment/Content?oid=3487489 Xaris fucked around with this message at 22:24 on May 22, 2016 |
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May 22, 2016 21:17
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Leperflesh posted:It all feeds into the same myth, the idea that in America, if you're innocent you'll be treated fairly and freed and there will be no further repurcussions, and that most likely if you were even arrested you were probably guilty. We have to stop feeding this lie to everyone from birth if we want to actually change anything significantly. Yeah, this is a real loving joke. If I Google my legal name, I get news articles detailing my arrest for multiple felonies. Nevermind that I wasn't convicted of them - that poo poo will haunt me until I die. Even though employers are technically not allowed to consider arrests (only convictions), the arrests and accusations are public record. Certain licensing boards can also consider them. It's had career ending repercussions for me. I'm a well educated middle class white guy. I can't even loving imagine what people from far more disadvantaged populations have to go through when they encounter the justice system.
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May 22, 2016 21:29
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Triglav posted:I'm not sure if socializing the next generation to feel depressed, powerless, angry, or antisocial, to believe that laws and regulations are unjust dictations set by those on high to gently caress over those below, will spur unity within these United States. I'm not sure you can socialize the next generation to believe the laws are just and justly enforced if that conflicts with their everyday experience. Black people aren't "socialized" to think a cop is more likely to shoot them at a routine traffic stop.
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May 22, 2016 23:03
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Are you guys still having a drought?
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May 23, 2016 03:21
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boom boom boom posted:Are you guys still having a drought? Yes.
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May 23, 2016 03:25
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Tuxedo Gin posted:Yeah, this is a real loving joke. If I Google my legal name, I get news articles detailing my arrest for multiple felonies. Nevermind that I wasn't convicted of them - that poo poo will haunt me until I die. Even though employers are technically not allowed to consider arrests (only convictions), the arrests and accusations are public record. Certain licensing boards can also consider them. It's had career ending repercussions for me. I can't be a radiologist because of a diversion program. That poo poo would probably have been a good job prospect coming out of the military.
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May 23, 2016 04:39
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Sydin posted:Yes. No it rained a couple of times I think that means the drought is over forever and all these water restrictions need to go away
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May 23, 2016 04:43
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Bizarro Watt posted:HSR would be such a boon to California and the country in general that it frustrates me to no end that I keep seeing this. Though it seems a lot of the delays and costs are from the legal battles that came out of it. HSR still seems dumb as poo poo to me and I still don't see what the benefit would be except for Bay Area people to move further away because they won't build up. Why is semi-speeding from SF to LA so important?
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May 23, 2016 04:52
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FCKGW posted:HSR still seems dumb as poo poo to me and I still don't see what the benefit would be except for Bay Area people to move further away because they won't build up. SF - LA is the second busiest air corridor in the country with something like six million people flying it a year. The drive is a boring nightmare, especially if you're making it on a weekend or god forbid a holiday. It's pretty much the perfect range/distance for a successful rail line.
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May 23, 2016 05:02
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I mean I get that it would be a great way to replace air travel I just can't see what it's so important to spend tens of billions of taxpayer dollars to do it.
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May 23, 2016 05:36
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FCKGW posted:I mean I get that it would be a great way to replace air travel I just can't see what it's so important to spend tens of billions of taxpayer dollars to do it. Not like we spend billions of dollars of taxpayer money on other forms of transportation.
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May 23, 2016 05:38
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Because infrastructure will never get built without government funds and the state of our rail is shameful compared to most developing nations, let alone "first world" nations.
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May 23, 2016 05:39
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Tuxedo Gin posted:Because infrastructure will never get built without government funds and the state of our rail is shameful compared to most developing nations, let alone "first world" nations. *Passenger rail. The differentiation is important because no one really has good freight and passenger rail.
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May 23, 2016 06:43
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FCKGW posted:I mean I get that it would be a great way to replace air travel I just can't see what it's so important to spend tens of billions of taxpayer dollars to do it. It's more to cut down on driving than air travel, I would think.
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May 23, 2016 06:56
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Sydin posted:It's more to cut down on driving than air travel, I would think. Well it should probably be competitive to both especially with tsa lines and getting to/fro airports.
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May 23, 2016 07:02
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As someone who used to fly regularly and still flies more than most, I don't see how rail is competitive. Since it takes 2x as long, it kills the whole SD-SF and LA-SF one day trip which is the most common.
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May 23, 2016 07:16
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Shbobdb posted:As someone who used to fly regularly and still flies more than most, I don't see how rail is competitive. Since it takes 2x as long, it kills the whole SD-SF and LA-SF one day trip which is the most common. Which takes twice as long, air travel to HSR or Amtrak to airtravel?
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May 23, 2016 07:26
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Bip Roberts posted:Which takes twice as long, air travel to HSR or Amtrak to airtravel? I think he means HSR is still twice as long as air travel Though that's not actually true, if implemented correctly. No check in lines or security lines. No airport bullshit. No waiting for checked bags. Door to door I bet it'd be the same.
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May 23, 2016 08:10
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Bip Roberts posted:Not like we spend billions of dollars of taxpayer money on other forms of transportation. Tuxedo Gin posted:Because infrastructure will never get built without government funds and the state of our rail is shameful compared to most developing nations, let alone "first world" nations. That doesn't answer my question. Why are people excited over going from LA to SF faster than driving but slower than flying? I'm not trying to poo poo on HSR. I see lots of people excited about but I genuinely don't know what the benefits are. Someone said it would be a huge boon for CA, but are we talking economically, environmentally, what? Why is HSR in CA such a big deal?
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May 23, 2016 14:13
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It's baffling. I loving love me some trains, but a SF/LA HSR route won't be any cheaper or faster than flying, especially if the train is making stops in Bakersfield and Fresno along the way. 20 years and $200 billion from now, you'll have something that isn't quite as useful as grabbing the Southwest $69 one way 70-minute LAX/SFO shuttle. I think a LA/Vegas route would be good (Christ, is there anything worse than the Sunday drive back, hung over and in creeping traffic?) but good luck getting the state of California to plow billions of dollars in a system to make it as easy as possible for residents to spend money outside of the state (the Feds, on the other hand...)
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May 23, 2016 14:20
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The train makes more sense when you consider the transit needs of the cities in the Central Valley. They're some of the fastest growing cities in the state and they're severely under-served.
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May 23, 2016 15:14
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Tuxedo Gin posted:I think he means HSR is still twice as long as air travel Counterpoint: the target audience here doesn't check bags and has precheck. Door to door you'd bet it'd be the same, based on what? The flight is 1 hr 10 mins. That's 2 hours with security on a bad day (and the first flight of the day basically has no security wait time). The trainride is ~3hrs last I heard. That's substantially longer. People that don't travel for work assuming work travel works like personal travel will pretty much doom HSR.
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May 23, 2016 15:51
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Tuxedo Gin posted:I think he means HSR is still twice as long as air travel How sure are we that the HSR won't eventually get all the security of airports? I imagine one terrorist style attack and the TSA shows up before the trains start running again.
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May 23, 2016 15:56
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FMguru posted:I think a LA/Vegas route would be good (Christ, is there anything worse than the Sunday drive back, hung over and in creeping traffic?) but good luck getting the state of California to plow billions of dollars in a system to make it as easy as possible for residents to spend money outside of the state (the Feds, on the other hand...) That's actually being built/planned right now, though by a private consortium. I imagine if/when the Raiders move to Vegas there will be significant interest to get it done.
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May 23, 2016 17:18
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Tuxedo Gin posted:Because infrastructure will never get built without government funds and the state of our rail is shameful compared to most developing nations, let alone "first world" nations. Does it matter if people in Jakarta or Amsterdam have better passenger rail than us? Do we need to be the besterest at trains? There would be more investment in California's Amtrak, perhaps connecting LA and Bakersfield by rail instead of bus, if more Californians used Amtrak. FCKGW posted:That doesn't answer my question. Why are people excited over going from LA to SF faster than driving but slower than flying? It's just that. Some don't want to fly because of carbon or dehumanization or preference, but they don't want the trip to take eight hours either. They want the train to go really fast outside Bakersfield and normal speeds everywhere else. FMguru posted:It's baffling. I loving love me some trains, but a SF/LA HSR route won't be any cheaper or faster than flying, especially if the train is making stops in Bakersfield and Fresno along the way. 20 years and $200 billion from now, you'll have something that isn't quite as useful as grabbing the Southwest $69 one way 70-minute LAX/SFO shuttle. Or you could take the quick plane ride to and from Vegas.
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May 23, 2016 17:52
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computer parts posted:That's actually being built/planned right now, though by a private consortium. I imagine if/when the Raiders move to Vegas there will be significant interest to get it done. As for the HSR talk, some of us hate flying and would rather take a 3 hour train ride to gawk at the cows / walk around the snack cart than deal with LAX or the stress of flying? The drive up and down LA-SF is a existential horror of boredom and cow-farts.
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May 23, 2016 17:55
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Triglav posted:Or you could take the quick plane ride to and from Vegas. Some of us don't like to fly. 
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May 23, 2016 18:03
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FilthyImp posted:Was that the Anaheim-Vegas corridor that I heard floated around? Disney to Debauchery in under an hour! I think I'm thinking of XpressWest but yeah it's the same general idea.
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May 23, 2016 18:03
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Triglav posted:Or you could take the quick plane ride to and from Vegas. Imagine how much money a bar car could make if they sold drinks to and from Vegas on a train.
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May 23, 2016 19:02
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Trains are good and cool and we could use more of them in the states.
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May 23, 2016 19:32
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HSR is loving amazing. I've lived in two countries that had it and it was massively useful and I never once considered flying between two points that were connected by HSR. I bet we'll gently caress it up, though. Our routing is already poo poo. They probably will make it overly difficult to get on and off - added security or some poo poo. You SHOULD be able to just walk on from the subway/metro in the same station as if you were merely transfering lines. We suck at transit though so it'll be a joke compared to other systems. Also, to the person who asked why the US needs to have the best passenger rail - we don't. But, we shouldn't have the worst. It's like healthcare. I would love for us to have the best healthcare system in the world, but we don't need it. I'm just sick of having the worst among our peers. Rail transit is loving fantastic.
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May 23, 2016 19:40
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Rail transit is fantastic at certain distances. I'd argue NorCal and socal is beyond that distance. In Europe where trains are pretty good, I'll take the train from Paris to Madrid or Frankfurt but if I'm going from Madrid to Frankfurt for pleasure (much less business) I'd take a plane. The "I don't like to fly" bullshit doesn't make sense on a commercial scale.
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May 23, 2016 20:27
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A lot of people prefer taking Amtrak NYC-Washington to flying because a train can be more comfortable. For less than flying business class would cost you, you can have a comfortable seat, space to walk around in, a bar car, and in general arrive better rested and ready to go. Trains don't have to pare off weight nearly as hard as planes do.
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May 23, 2016 20:30
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Shbobdb posted:Rail transit is fantastic at certain distances. I'd argue NorCal and socal is beyond that distance. In Europe where trains are pretty good, I'll take the train from Paris to Madrid or Frankfurt but if I'm going from Madrid to Frankfurt for pleasure (much less business) I'd take a plane. Wouldn't the train from Paris to Madrid take significantly longer than a train from SF to LA?  Also, I've seen people's laptops shatter when the person in front of you slams their seat back into the screen on a plane. Yet to have that problem on a train and there can even be cell service. ymmv.
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May 23, 2016 20:38
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