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Giulia, when you bring journos in on an all expenses paid media junket to Italy and they all write about your shoddy build quality you might have a problem...
smooth jazz fucked around with this message at 11:10 on May 25, 2016 |
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May 25, 2016 09:47
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It wouldn't be an Alfa without basic fundamental flaws!
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May 25, 2016 11:49
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So in this day and age where cars run (and usually drive) like toasters, is Italian unreliability still a thing or is it just an internet joke? Curious because picking up a new (used) Alfa would be a thing I'd want to do.
travisray2004 fucked around with this message at 20:27 on May 25, 2016 |
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May 25, 2016 20:18
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travisray2004 posted:So in this day and age where cars run (and usually drive) like toasters, is Italian unreliability still a thing or is it just an internet joke? Curious because picking up a new (used) Alfa would be a thing I'd want to do. I drove a Fiat Panda for 4 years with absolutely no issues. A couple of months after I sold it to my ex-GF, it blew the turbo  Back when I bought it originally (2008), when it came to Fiats, you wanted the Polish-built models, not the Turkish-built ones. I don't know if that still holds true, or what it's like with Alfas.
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May 25, 2016 20:31
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travisray2004 posted:So in this day and age where cars run (and usually drive) like toasters, is Italian unreliability still a thing or is it just an internet joke? Curious because picking up a new (used) Alfa would be a thing I'd want to do. You ever use an Italian toaster?
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May 25, 2016 20:44
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Linedance posted:You ever use an Italian toaster? If you have, you might be a smeg head
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May 25, 2016 21:06
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Linedance posted:You ever use an Italian toaster? My Whirpool dryer that I inherited when I bought this condo broke down a few days ago and I was dismayed to learn that it was made in Italy and thus impossible to get parts for(what the repair people told me. It's not actually true and I bought a new thermostat online and repaired it easily).
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May 25, 2016 21:13
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travisray2004 posted:So in this day and age where cars run (and usually drive) like toasters, is Italian unreliability still a thing or is it just an internet joke? Curious because picking up a new (used) Alfa would be a thing I'd want to do. My take on the history of Alfa reliability issues: 50's-60's: Solid cars, mechanically complicated compared to contemporaries. 70's-80's, early nineties: - Engines, suspension etc. are solid, propshaft a bit of pain in transaxle cars. Weak gearbox synchros for the large rotating mass in the transaxle cars. - Everything that is plastic trim, interior etc is crap. - Horrible electricals. The reputation for electrical issues is well deserved - Rust is a major issue 97--2007 (156, 147, GT): - Electronics are all the same Bosch components you will find in other European cars (BMW etc.). Wiring uses proper connectors is generally well made. I don't think they are any worse than other contemporaries. - Multi link suspension front and rear means a lot of bushings compared to most other cars in the same price range. These need to be replaced with quality items quite often. Perhaps comparable to a 5-series BMW. - Timing belts have to replaced often (every 40k miles and 3-4 years) and to do it properly requires some effort. - Oil consumption can be an issue in 4 cylinder cars - The direct injection JTS engines are sensitive to oil quality: cam wear and inlet clogging up with residue are quite common issues. - V6 cars may wear a hole in the gearbox casing. The fit between the gearbox and inner fender is a bit tight. - Rust becomes major issue when they are more than 10 years old in Scandinavian climate - The semiautomatic "Selespeed" transmission has its issues. It is the same Magneti-Marelli robot that is BMW SMG, Ferrari F1, Aston Martin etc. from the era. 2006 ->2011 (159, Brera, Spider) - These are the fruit of the ill-fated FIAT-GM co-operation. Heavy cars that do not quite have the "Alfa-like" handling of the previous generation. Much more refined, though. -All the mechanical issues have been inherited from GM and apply also to other GM cars (Opel, Saab in Europe) that used components of the same lineage: The M32 gearbox, stretching timing chains and leaky steering racks that require replacement. A Diesel version (or the later FIAT based 1.7 turbo petrol) with automatic transmission, or the 2.4 diesel with manual F45 transmission should be ok. - Paint is poor quality and chips easily - Height adjustment in the front light tends to break and reguires replacement of the whole assembly. 2010-> (Mito, Giulietta) - I don't really know TLDR: The electrical issues reputation was well earned in 70's to 90's, but it hasn't really been an issue since ~2000. The reputation is still there though. The New Giulia doesn't really share much with the new Maseratis. It is a completely different platform, all the engines are different etc. DoLittle fucked around with this message at 22:11 on May 25, 2016 |
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May 25, 2016 22:04
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CR thinks the fiat 500 and its various siblings have been very unreliable.
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May 25, 2016 23:34
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:CR thinks the fiat 500 and its various siblings have been very unreliable. There's a thread on the car lounge portion of vwvortex where a guy is gonna hit his 30 day at the dealer lemon law time this week. FCA has been completely incompetent in dealing with him.
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May 26, 2016 02:28
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fknlo posted:FCA has been completely incompetent I'm shocked!
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May 26, 2016 02:31
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Powershift posted:I'm shocked! They keep "escalating" him to new case managers or whatever they are that do absolutely nothing while his car sits at a dealership where no one can get in contact with the service manager  Here's the thread if anyone has some time to kill
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May 26, 2016 02:34
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You can't trick me into going to vwvortex but nice try!
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May 26, 2016 02:52
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We have a 500 abarth cabrio and a 500 pop hatchback. No issues with the cabrio after 30k miles of being driven like an rear end in a top hat other than some wear on the spoiler clear coat (FCA replaced the spoiler). The Pop has gone thru 2 window regulators and a hubcap that flew off on the freeway over its 25k miles. All replaced by FCA. A+++ would buy a FIAT again. Also, the Abarth is my favorite car ever.
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May 26, 2016 05:43
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DoLittle sums it up very well. I'll just add: Many times it's not incompetence from an engineering standpoint, but quality control. For instance, the 156's were galvanized, but can still suffer from rust because they just plain forgot to undercoat some cars. On 159's the subframe could begin to rust after a couple of years due to lovely quality control, others show no rust after double that time. The Selespeed is a pretty good system, and actually not that unreliable in itself. But the problem is that no one knew how to take care of it. It need to calibrated once a year to not wear and fail. It also need correct oil and correct levels. Not even the Alfa stealership technicians knew how to do this, which means that it fails and then they insist on replacing the whole drat unit. The ones that were taken care of properly run fine and are pretty bulletproof. Then there is the whole customer service bit, FCA and Alfa are probably the absolute worst at this. If they'd just sort out the customer service, and the quality control they'd be ahead of many other companies. That being said, I'm going to look at a facelifted 156 tomorrow. 11 years in Swedish winter conditions... It's been very well cared for though, and professionally rust protected (where they inspect it all 'n protect 'n poo poo) by the current owner when he bought it five years ago. Girlfriend loves the Fiat 500 (and when she sat in one I've never seen someone fit in a car so well), so we'll probably buy one of those in the future. Personally I'm a bit bored of them. They went the Mini route and made a billion different versions, which kinda spoils it a bit for me. MrOnBicycle fucked around with this message at 16:16 on May 26, 2016 |
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May 26, 2016 08:56
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DoLittle posted:My take on the history of Alfa reliability issues: Excellent summary. Thanks for that. Guess I'll be following the 4c market a little bit closer in a few years.
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May 26, 2016 13:49
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Comparison images from Auto Motor und Sport:  
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May 26, 2016 19:14
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I actually think the base looks a bit better than the QV from the front. Not as overstyled.
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May 26, 2016 19:33
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I actually think the base looks a bit better than the QV from the front. Not as overstyled. I agree. I think the base model looks better in general than the QV. It also makes the A4 look a bit boxy and dated in my opinion. According to Qouttroroute, Giulia 2.2 JTD 8 speed automatic in Super (TI in US) trim is 1640 kg (3615 lbs) with a 75 kg (165 lbs) driver and a full fuel tank. A 2.0t review: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/alfa-romeo/giulia/95680/new-alfa-romeo-giulia-20-petrol-review This should be the same engine base US Giulia will have, but the US version will have 280 hp instead of 200 hp version in the above review. Bigger turbo and intercooler for the US version I guess. Goodwood QV review. https://www.goodwood.com/grrc/road/news/2016/5/review-alfa-romeo-giulia-quadrifoglio/ DoLittle fucked around with this message at 20:04 on May 26, 2016 |
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May 26, 2016 19:49
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Most VAG vehicles have gotten so loving bland that none of them do anything for me. I honestly do not know why someone would choose an A4 over the competition. The interior isn't as amazing as everyone says it is either. Same goes for BMW and the new 3/4/gt/gran coupe/insertotherbullshitvarient. The Giulia on the other hand tends to remind me of the E39 5 series. Clean, tasteful lines.
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May 26, 2016 20:12
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Everything except the QV will be auto-only in the US, won't it.
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May 26, 2016 21:12
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I wish there was a middle spec with a 300-something HP NA V6.
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May 27, 2016 03:53
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:RWD/awd, manual, practical enough to use as my only car. Thus, not counting the 4c and 8c. The Giulia counts. That's about as far away as you can get from a 'proper Alfa'
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May 27, 2016 07:37
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dissss posted:That's about as far away as you can get from a 'proper Alfa' RWD and manual is 100% 'proper Alfa'. Practicality is debatable.
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May 27, 2016 08:35
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KozmoNaut posted:RWD and manual is 100% 'proper Alfa'. Guess I'm not old enough to remember those ones.
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May 27, 2016 09:51
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dissss posted:That's about as far away as you can get from a 'proper Alfa' who on earth thinks of alfa and is like oh yes the 147 1.9 JTD rather than the 105/115 KozmoNaut posted:RWD and manual is 100% 'proper Alfa'. By practical, I mean "more practical than a 4C" not "doesn't break down when you look at it funny leaving occupants stranded." I'm a realist, you see.
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May 27, 2016 13:34
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The new Mini Clubman S All4 looks pretty cool, at least on paper. 4-door wagon form factor, 6-speed manual, 189hp/207ft-lb turbo 4, all wheel drive, and the interior actually looks pretty well appointed, if a bit Mini-kitsch. A little bit heavy at 3400 pounds, but seems like it'd be a good do-everything car that is still decently fun. But Mini's reliability reports keep me at a distance, even as a Euro car apologist.
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May 27, 2016 20:45
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My GTI was putting out 180hp in 2002, I can't get excited about a 3400lb car that doesn't even break 200hp.
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May 27, 2016 21:07
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More power would of course be great, but it's a drat unicorn being a manual transmission all-wheel drive wagon that at least has some sporting pretense. Not available in brown, though. The sad thing is that for the money you're within spitting distance of the Golf R, and bizarrely I'd trust a Golf R to be more reliable than a Mini. Not as spacious, but a hell of a lot faster.
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May 27, 2016 21:15
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Linedance posted:Somewhere in Munich, a BMW marketing executive's Cialis just kicked in. SouthLAnd posted:This might actually be my favorite car in their lineup. M cars included. 4-doors, frameless windows, and a hatch just gets me. There ya go
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May 27, 2016 21:44
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I just want a European car with Japanese engineering and build quality, and American financial incentives. Is that so hard?
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May 28, 2016 05:48
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Wheeee posted:I just want a European car with Japanese engineering and build quality, and American financial incentives.  
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May 28, 2016 15:31
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 Phy posted:If you have, you might be a smeg head Does anyone else have difficulty divorcing the name of that company (which makes beautiful psuedo period looking refrigerators btw) and smegma? MrOnBicycle posted:Many times it's not incompetence from an engineering standpoint, but quality control. This is very reminiscent of what I feel like I've read about some of the American failings lately. It'd be interesting to see if anyone (Consumer Reports maybe) tracks issue root causes as QC v engineering v catastrophic failure and compares them.
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May 28, 2016 17:39
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Mat_Drinks posted:Does anyone else have difficulty divorcing the name of that company (which makes beautiful psuedo period looking refrigerators btw) and smegma? Yes
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May 28, 2016 18:09
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Mat_Drinks posted:Does anyone else have difficulty divorcing the name of that company (which makes beautiful psuedo period looking refrigerators btw) and smegma? Never actually made that connection. For me it was always a Red Dwarf reference, which is 99% of the reason I love them, the other 1% being that they're beautiful appliances.
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May 28, 2016 22:20
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Linedance posted:Never actually made that connection. For me it was always a Red Dwarf reference, which is 99% of the reason I love them, the other 1% being that they're beautiful appliances. What did you think Lister meant by "smeg head"? 
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May 28, 2016 23:53
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Wheeee posted:I just want a European car with Japanese engineering and build quality, and American financial incentives. There's a Rover/Honda/Sterling joke in here somewhere I just know it
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May 29, 2016 02:15
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drgitlin posted:What did you think Lister meant by "smeg head"? You can't say "poo poo" on the BBC before watershed?
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May 29, 2016 02:57
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Random Sunday rumouring?  CONFIRMED(?): Next-Generation Buick Regal Wagon Coming to U.S.  It's not the Buick, but it is the Buick's German cousin.
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May 30, 2016 03:01
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Eh. The Regal is like a slightly nicer domestic Accord. I guess was never really drawn to it.
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May 30, 2016 04:19
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