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V for Vegas
Sep 1, 2004

THUNDERDOME LOSER
Didn't see this posted from Vic re: DC:B metrics. I really need to play more of this game but stupid Stellaris/Warhammer/HOI4 is getting in the way.

http://www.vrdesigns.net/?p=1539 (click for some ridiculous charts of some people's VP gains)

quote:

It has been a while since we shared some Barbarossa metrics. With a big influx of new players through the Steam release of Decisive Campaigns: Babarossa we now have a really good picture on the latest v1.03 (scenario version 22) balance. And I am happy to say it looks very good.

Metrics are small data points that can be shared by players (see the in-game prefs tab) with the developers. They help us to check if the balance is as it should be, how the AI is doing and more. But always in the interest of improving the game and sharing with the players how others are playing it.

These metrics show the advance of the German player (in victory points) on the vertical axis and the round number on the horizontal axis. The average player is up to a stiff challenge and even when all is going well it seldom becomes a push-over. If the German player even wins he’ll on average will need to fight in to the winter months. In the graph above the latest version is in purple.

I have been playing for quite some time with the idea to add a variant for a Soviet Master AI. This AI would combine all the best strategies. I have been monitoring quite a few and lots of them had no statistical impact on the AIs performance. Like keeping an army in Odessa or Riga. However i’d like to share 3 strategem metrics that did seem to have had some impact.

The first graph (see below) shows the different levels of confidence the AI has in its forces. It shows that with a bit less confidence (80%-green) the German player can be delayed just that bit more. Which is ironic since that setting causes the AI to give terrain and retreat more often.

The second graph shows the AI willingness to keep regular units on cities to defend them better. It shows that if it only does so when it is not retreating (blue) it has a positive impact especially in the later stages of the game; I guess in the initial stages retreating will also lead to the unit being encircled and destroyed.

The third and last graph shows the AI agressivenes expressed in a modifier of perceived German defensive strength. We can see that it seems to perform better if its less aggressive (1.0-blue).

Maybe one by one these differences in German VP attained versus different Soviet strategems seem really minimal, but I think if you add them up they might make a noticeable difference of maybe upto 10VP, which would be quite a lot. I am thus plotting to add a variant that will allow you to play the AI on ‘Master Variant’ setting that will combine all those succesfull strategems together.

But what is your personal experience?

What do you think the Soviet AI could do better in order to become even stronger?

Best wishes,
Vic

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Nenonen
Oct 22, 2009

Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

IIRC Rust got through unintercepted because there was an air force exercise going on and Soviet air controllers thought the blip on the radar was part of that.

Cabbage Disrespect
Apr 24, 2009

ROBUST COMBAT
Leonard Riflepiss
Soiled Meat

gazza posted:

It is true that Soviet AA > NATO AA all day every day though

(if you don't count botes)

Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

Semper Shitpost Ubique

Does anyone know what's going on with The Operational Art of War? Three years ago I heard Matrix was working on a patch, now I hear it's a sequel.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

Frosted Flake posted:

Does anyone know what's going on with The Operational Art of War? Three years ago I heard Matrix was working on a patch, now I hear it's a sequel.

They did actually release that big patch within the last three years, but you're also correct that it does seem like the other other, larger patch was eventually spun off into its own next game.

cool new Metroid game
Oct 7, 2009

hail satan

Dark_Swordmaster posted:

That picture-of-an-AA-panel sim has been around forever. I tried it once but I don't think I could get it to turn on.

The last time I tried it a year ago or so I actually managed to eventually shoot down a target drone that was flying a straight and level course. That took a lot of manual studying but it felt pretty satisfying when I did it.

skooma512
Feb 8, 2012

You couldn't grok my race car, but you dug the roadside blur.

Nenonen posted:

IIRC Rust got through unintercepted because there was an air force exercise going on and Soviet air controllers thought the blip on the radar was part of that.

Man, how lucky can a guy be?

Nenonen
Oct 22, 2009

Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa
Incidentally, it was also a lucky break for Gorby because it gave him an excuse to get rid of some hawks opposing him.

Wikipedia posted:

William E. Odom, former director of the U.S. National Security Agency and author of The Collapse of the Soviet Military, says that Rust's flight irreparably damaged the reputation of the Soviet military. This enabled Gorbachev to remove many of the strongest opponents to his reforms. Minister of Defense Sergei Sokolov and the head of the Soviet Air Defence Forces Alexander Koldunov were dismissed along with hundreds of other officers. This was the biggest turnover in the Soviet military since Stalin's purges 50 years earlier.[1][7]

oh and now I wish Spectrum Holobyte's Crisis in Kremlin was available somewhere.

PleasingFungus
Oct 10, 2012
idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off
I've been playing Pike and Shot, and I absolutely cannot get anywhere in the first Italian Wars mission. If I focus on arquebusiers and rodeleros, I can get a slight edge over the Swiss pike, but by then I've lost the cavalry battle and am getting rolled up from my right. If I focus on gendarmes and jinetes, I can fight the French at roughly even terms, but then my infantry collapses. Should i give up on the stream and go back to the hill behind me starting on turn 1? What sort of advantage does the stream give me, anyway? I can't get the UI to give me any info on it.

AceRimmer
Mar 18, 2009

Nenonen posted:

oh and now I wish Spectrum Holobyte's Crisis in Kremlin was available somewhere.
Yeah, that's a fun game. Had one hardliner run where I managed to last long enough to intervene and prevent Desert Storm. :ussr:

Baloogan
Dec 5, 2004
Fun Shoe

Private Speech posted:

I've been playing (and modding) supreme ruler lately, which is actually kindof fine with the latest patch and ETW mod, and looking through the bg forums for the older games (since they've basically been selling the same game for more than a decade. I mean the games have continuous version numbers FFS! I think we're up to version 9.0.53) I saw posts by Baloogan. So uhh was that you? What are you thoughts on the games? I don't know anyone else who played them much.

Admittedly they're really janky and basically a cross between Victoria 1 and HOI2 with a ton of ahistorical stuff on top, but so far it's been quite fun.

Yup thats me! I was in the SR2010 closed beta and I've been disappointed in the direction of the series. Most fun I ever had was playing multiplayer beta SR2010 vs the developers and exploiting bugs to infuriate them haha

corn in the bible
Jun 5, 2004

Oh no oh god it's all true!
Supreme Ruler keeps adding more diplomatic options to their games but the decisions you can make literally do not do anything.

PleasingFungus
Oct 10, 2012
idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off
why do you keep playing them?

AceRimmer
Mar 18, 2009
Did they ever fix the military system to actually incorporate organizing your military into actual formations instead of dumb RTS style bullshit?

corn in the bible
Jun 5, 2004

Oh no oh god it's all true!

PleasingFungus posted:

why do you keep playing them?

I have cold war, which has the fundamrntal problem that the sphere system literally doesn't work. and then someone gave me 1936 which also doesn't work.

Alikchi
Aug 18, 2010

Thumbs up I agree

Anyone wanna play the soviets in a DC: Barbarossa pbem with me? I'm gonna do an audience-participation LP of the german side.

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

Alikchi posted:

Anyone wanna play the soviets in a DC: Barbarossa pbem with me? I'm gonna do an audience-participation LP of the german side.

Uh, I still haven't played past turn 2 of my first German game because of stuff and life and realising I really do need to read the manual this time but I could.

Riso
Oct 11, 2008

by merry exmarx

Alikchi posted:

Anyone wanna play the soviets in a DC: Barbarossa pbem with me? I'm gonna do an audience-participation LP of the german side.

I would but I only played Soviets once before and it lead to quite a disaster. Although not as bad as losing the entire Heeresgruppe Mitte as Germany. :v:

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
I would if I understood anything at all about how the Soviet side is supposed to work.

Riso
Oct 11, 2008

by merry exmarx
I think Soviet side is all about replacing lovely generals, delaying the Germans and only trying to lose conscript armies.

Note: Saving up political points to play the card for more points never works. Stalin always paranoias the very turn before.

uPen
Jan 25, 2010

Zu Rodina!

Alikchi posted:

Anyone wanna play the soviets in a DC: Barbarossa pbem with me? I'm gonna do an audience-participation LP of the german side.

I'm in.

Foo Diddley
Oct 29, 2011

cat

AceRimmer posted:

Did they ever fix the military system to actually incorporate organizing your military into actual formations instead of dumb RTS style bullshit?

You mean, have they actually incorporated the one feature that all their players have been begging them for since SR2010?

Lol no

Baloogan
Dec 5, 2004
Fun Shoe
if supreme ruler had an in depth OOB management system it would be so cool. OOBs are cool.

Private Speech
Mar 30, 2011

I HAVE EVEN MORE WORTHLESS BEANIE BABIES IN MY COLLECTION THAN I HAVE WORTHLESS POSTS IN THE BEANIE BABY THREAD YET I STILL HAVE THE TEMERITY TO CRITICIZE OTHERS' COLLECTIONS

IF YOU SEE ME TALKING ABOUT BEANIE BABIES, PLEASE TELL ME TO

EAT. SHIT.


Baloogan posted:

if supreme ruler had an in depth OOB management system it would be so cool. OOBs are cool.

It's not really that type of game though. The units are more panzer general style, even down to soft/hard attack, strength etc.

Anyway if someone wants to try the latest one I'll have a decent fix-up mod finished soon. Don't expect miracles, but I tried to fix stuff up a bit and add missing things where I could. I've also got a summary of game mechanics written down, because like half of it isn't explained anywhere (and a few things are still unimplemented: pollution, research reputation. almost everything else is though, so at least there's that)

E: you probably don't want to try unless you own the game already and don't mind janky games that take forever to play

Private Speech fucked around with this message at 05:34 on May 29, 2016

Baloogan
Dec 5, 2004
Fun Shoe
how many units do you generally get in a panzer general scenaro vs how many units cover every drat inch of your drat computer monitor while playing SR2010!!!! Sure the units are the same sort, but you get a loving TRILLION of them. Thus OOB organizational tools would be hella useful.

----------------
This thread brought to you by a tremendous dickhead!

GhostDog
Jul 30, 2003

Always see everything.
I like turn-based and small(ish) scale tactics so I tried the demo for the latest combat mission game and really enjoyed it. While the pricing is ridiculous I think I'll have to buy one anyway. Is there one that is considered the best and do all of them get upgraded along the same path and are essentially on the same engine?

INinja132
Aug 7, 2015

Fortress Italy is I think quite highly regarded. There's no wrong choice though really, just pick one that you like the period of. In terms of the same engine, Italy requires you to buy the $10 3.0 upgrade, whereas Normandy, Red Thunder, Black Sea and Final Blitzkrieg are all already on 3.0.

dtkozl
Dec 17, 2001

ultima ratio regum
I'd go with what theater you like.

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

Good lord this DC:B is a step up from the previous games in terms of difficulty. There's never enough fuel :negative:

Riso
Oct 11, 2008

by merry exmarx

Alchenar posted:

Good lord this DC:B is a step up from the previous games in terms of difficulty. There's never enough fuel :negative:

You also have none changing the FSB! Enjoy!

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

Riso posted:

You also have none changing the FSB! Enjoy!

Vic really has solved the 'one side kicks the poo poo out of the other until the turn limit is up' problem that all the previous DC games have. The Soviets really get their chance to turn and give the Germans a bloody nose.

Chump Farts
May 9, 2009

There is no Coordinator but Narduzzi, and Shilique is his Prophet.

Alchenar posted:

Vic really has solved the 'one side kicks the poo poo out of the other until the turn limit is up' problem that all the previous DC games have. The Soviets really get their chance to turn and give the Germans a bloody nose.

Do they ever.

V for Vegas
Sep 1, 2004

THUNDERDOME LOSER

GhostDog posted:

I like turn-based and small(ish) scale tactics so I tried the demo for the latest combat mission game and really enjoyed it. While the pricing is ridiculous I think I'll have to buy one anyway. Is there one that is considered the best and do all of them get upgraded along the same path and are essentially on the same engine?

If you're agnostic about theatre (which is kind of impossible, but assume it isn't) then Battle for Normandy has been out the longest and has the most stuff (Commonwealth Forces, Market Garden, Special Vehicles, Special Maps) although they all cost extra.

algebra testes
Mar 5, 2011


Lipstick Apathy

INinja132 posted:

Fortress Italy is I think quite highly regarded. There's no wrong choice though really, just pick one that you like the period of. In terms of the same engine, Italy requires you to buy the $10 3.0 upgrade, whereas Normandy, Red Thunder, Black Sea and Final Blitzkrieg are all already on 3.0.

Fortress Italy: Lots of variation of terrain and weather types, comedy option italians, a lot of focus on smaller stuff. Base game gets you US, Germans and Italians. Expansion add a tonne of different countries. Downside is it misses some of the later war toys and 10 dollar patch.

Final Blitzkrieg: New, buggy? Has a lot of late war toys. Only has US and then 3 different German types.

Red Thunder: Only two sides, a lot of bigger maps, Soviet Tanks :swoon:

Normandy: The Most stuff, making it a ridiculous buy in. But on the other hand, the most stuff. The campaigns in this game I feel are some of the better ones, but that's personal taste.

At the end of the day,

dtkozl posted:

I'd go with what theater you like.

edit: I don't like black sea because I'm can't be a literal nazi don't like the pace of combat because everyone is a walking death machine with an automatic rifle and scope that can hit a flea's asshair at 2 kilometers. But that's personal preference. :)

algebra testes fucked around with this message at 10:00 on May 30, 2016

GhostDog
Jul 30, 2003

Always see everything.
Thanks everybody. Went with Blitzkrieg because Normandy is just so played out, and the 10 dollars to get Italy to 3.0 annoyed me too much. Although now that I read it has a lot of variation and small scale engagements... oh well, maybe once I'm done with Blitzkrieg.

Drone
Aug 22, 2003

Incredible machine
:smug:



So I upgraded my PC to Windows 10 and I assume now that my two Battlefront installations (Black Sea and Fortress Italy) will no longer work because of their ridiculous DRM (haven't checked yet). What's the procedure for getting that sorted out?

Nenonen
Oct 22, 2009

Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

Drone posted:

So I upgraded my PC to Windows 10 and I assume now that my two Battlefront installations (Black Sea and Fortress Italy) will no longer work because of their ridiculous DRM (haven't checked yet). What's the procedure for getting that sorted out?

So you are asking for help before seeing if you need help?

Drone
Aug 22, 2003

Incredible machine
:smug:



Nenonen posted:

So you are asking for help before seeing if you need help?

Knowing Battlefront I think it's 99% likely to be broken, so yes.

Nenonen
Oct 22, 2009

Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

Drone posted:

Knowing Battlefront I think it's 99% likely to be broken, so yes.

And therefore you are proposing that others should install Windows 10 just to help you avoid the extraordinary bother of launching your game and possibly having an issue with it? Good luck with that.

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Forums Terrorist
Dec 8, 2011

Hey grog thread, I'm looking for a nuclear war DOS game that got posted in the Cold War thread in TFR ages ago. You could play as either the US or USSR and the aim was to force the other side to concede with the lowest amount of warheads used; you only had a limited amount to work with that slowly increased depending on your actions and the enemy response, it modelled communication and early warning breakdown, etc. Anyone know what I'm talking about?

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