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Takes No Damage posted:^^^ Has a Souls game ever had an underwater area? Can no one at FROM swim? It's kind of hard to swim in a suit of armor.
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May 25, 2016 07:53
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Proposition Joe posted:It's kind of hard to swim in a suit of armor. Victorian diving suit. Patches mans the air pump. EponymousMrYar posted:Counterpoint: Losing all your souls because while on your way back to pick them up you die in some stupid manner, such as missing an easy jump or dying to an enemy you have breezed past because it manages to nick you with a grab attack you never knew it had because you have always dodged it previously can be extremely frustrating. The platforming is frustrating, and one of the weakest points in Souls games. However, you should never underestimate enemies, no matter how many times you have gone past some area.
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May 25, 2016 08:56
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You're not losing progress if you're learning.
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May 25, 2016 09:13
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Dark Souls may not be for you, and that is okay. Souls games (even this one, which a lot of people seem to have a real hate boner for) are pretty unique in a lot of ways, and can be very rewarding, but the mechanics that make them unique and rewarding are also ones that are frustrating and whether or not they're good is very subjective. A lot of people say invasions and PvP are a huge and important part of them but, maybe because I'm a bit poo poo at it, they're basically just a random gently caress you guaranteed death from some stranger I'm entirely unprepared to beat. I'm willing to just put up with it because I like the other bits of the game a lot. Likewise, it's okay to not like how much Souls can kill your progress, especially if you don't feel like you're improving.
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May 25, 2016 10:03
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Proposition Joe posted:It's kind of hard to swim in a suit of armor. Just do what Shadow Tower Abyss did and have you just be able to breathe underwater and don't do swimming mechanics.
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May 25, 2016 11:14
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Golden Goat posted:Just do what Shadow Tower Abyss did and have you just be able to breathe underwater and don't do swimming mechanics.
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May 25, 2016 11:26
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Xanderkish posted:Although really after you get over the first difficulty hurdle in Dark Souls, it tends to get easier, not because the gameplay has gotten easier (and later in the game it does get more difficult) because you get used to the Dark Souls way of playing. You get familiar with the physicality of your character, know how to observe the movements and actions of enemies to learn how to deal with them, and you become familiar with how to evaluate the layout of a landscape and when to expect an ambush. You learn how to Dark Souls, rather than the particular levels. At risk of getting back on topic, I only really just consciously noticed this watching someone else play through the forest of fallen giants: how many fair, straight-up fights has Geop seen so far? I'd wager we can count that number on a single hand, assuming it's not actually zero. Everything has an extra enemy or two hiding just out of sight, bowmen or firebomb dudes firing on you from above, surprise exploding barrels, hollows playing dead, boulder traps, mysterious swoopy things, etc. I didn't realise this during my playthrough, but I now see that the game is more or less teaching you to expect various kinds of bastardry and how to look for telltale signs of poo poo about to go down, such as suspicious corners that you can't see round but with one dude/item clearly trying to lure you into rushing in. The sheer density and variety of traps and ambushes we've seen so far in a beginner's area has got to be the game trying to get you to learn how to 
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May 25, 2016 12:05
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SynthOrange posted:You're not losing progress if you're learning.
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May 25, 2016 12:57
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Archenteron posted:People who semi-glitch speedrun DS1 have found a way to run through New Londo without de-flooding it, so kinda? How? I'm back there in my game right now and it sounds fun. 
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May 25, 2016 13:53
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Laputanmachine posted:Victorian diving suit. Patches mans the air pump. This seems monumentally unwise.
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May 25, 2016 14:07
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Peanut3141 posted:Wouldn't it have been easier to just buy all the titanite you could afford?
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May 25, 2016 14:18
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Night10194 posted:This seems monumentally unwise. You make it worth his while by fighting a giant octopus and stealing gold it's grasping with its tentacles. Basically it's the old G&W Octopus but in Dark Souls.
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May 25, 2016 14:19
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Crazy Achmed posted:At risk of getting back on topic, I only really just consciously noticed this watching someone else play through the forest of fallen giants: how many fair, straight-up fights has Geop seen so far? I'd wager we can count that number on a single hand, assuming it's not actually zero. Everything has an extra enemy or two hiding just out of sight, bowmen or firebomb dudes firing on you from above, surprise exploding barrels, hollows playing dead, boulder traps, mysterious swoopy things, etc. Not counting the tutorial area? Heide's Tower (what Geop saw of it) was fairly straight-forward fights. The very first part of the Forest (by the stream) had the first couple of Hollow Infantry coming individually without any tricks. And the Soldier at the top of the ladder by the bonfire. But yeah, that's it. All the rest have had a trick. Which is good, honestly. A whole string of one-on-one fights with no special tricks gets dull fast, particularly if you do the same run a couple of times because you died.
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May 25, 2016 14:27
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Tempest_56 posted:A whole string of one-on-one fights with no special tricks gets dull fast, particularly if you do the same run a couple of times because you died. Especially when the enemy in question is just weak man with sword #60.
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May 25, 2016 14:34
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Crazy Achmed posted:At risk of getting back on topic, I only really just consciously noticed this watching someone else play through the forest of fallen giants: how many fair, straight-up fights has Geop seen so far? I'd wager we can count that number on a single hand, assuming it's not actually zero. Everything has an extra enemy or two hiding just out of sight, bowmen or firebomb dudes firing on you from above, surprise exploding barrels, hollows playing dead, boulder traps, mysterious swoopy things, etc. It is kind of strange that they seem to throw so many tricks and traps at you so quickly. I seem to recall the original Dark Souls teaching you those same things, but not so close together. It also doesn't help that the Forest feels a bit smaller than say, the Undead Burg. Though to be fair, even in the Undead Burg we only have maybe one or two straight up "fair fights" in the traditional sense.
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May 25, 2016 14:34
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Scribe13 posted:It is kind of strange that they seem to throw so many tricks and traps at you so quickly. I seem to recall the original Dark Souls teaching you those same things, but not so close together. It also doesn't help that the Forest feels a bit smaller than say, the Undead Burg. Though to be fair, even in the Undead Burg we only have maybe one or two straight up "fair fights" in the traditional sense. Yeah, Dark Souls has always had multiple enemies. The difference was that with mobs in the undead Burg, they were usually coordinated in their attacks and wielding different weapons, so there was natural breathing room in between their attacks. Guy 1 moves forward to fight with dagger, guy 2 chucks a bomb, guy 3 leaps in with axe, all at the same time. Roll away from all three, and now they're all exposed to be hit. In Forest, you get a lot more than 3, often, and they all use very similar attacks. You might have 3 guys all coming at you with daggers, and because daggers are short-range, one will attack first and the others have to walk around that guy before they start attacking, and then when that attack is done the first guy is done with his attack and ready to attack again. So the spaces for your own attacks are a lot narrower. That ends up making combat more "difficult", but only in the sense that it's more tedious and less interesting. You spend more time waiting for an opening than you do in the other games, and the similar enemies makes killing them repetitive. Think about how, in the Demon Ruins, you had those floating fat guys all try to mob you at once. And those guys at least had long wind-up times so you could easily avoid them. So a group of enemies in the latter half of Dark Souls 1 were easier to maneuver around than a group of enemies in the beginning area of Dark Souls 2.
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May 25, 2016 14:49
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Well here - let's play out the first encounter with each game. DS1? You go up the stairs by Firelink, where you've got a second stairway and a flat area beside it. Three guys spaced out on the flat area (two with swords and a heavier armored hollow); firebomb thrower up top; two more guys up there waiting to ambush (one sword, one axe). At any given point you're at minimum fighting one with firebombs coming down at you, and can easily end up fighting three at once. DS2? Long stretch alongside a stream. Three guys spaced out (one axe, one fist, one knife) along the path. Large optional monster off to the side. Little further up there's the small bridge - you've got an archer firing down, one sword hollow waiting there; a second with a knife playing dead in the water; two more with axes waiting to jump down. The first half are all easily fought one at a time, and the arrival of the second group means that while you could have up to five opponents, you've got enough time between when they enter the scene that you'll usually only have 1-2 plus the archer unless you're really passive. To me the DS2 encounter has more variety to it and is easier unless you rush in to trigger all the hollows at once and then go passive to not take them down.
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May 25, 2016 16:02
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Honestly, this first area isn't the best for comparisons between the two games regarding enemy density. This is more of a conversation to be had later because I'm playing Dark Souls 1 and 2 simultaneously right now, having never beaten either of them, and I'm noticing a lot of significant difference in how both games handle enemy encounters in the mid-to-late game. I know I can think of at least a few places off the top of my mind. Maybe once Geop gets to some of those areas there would be a more appropriate time for a discussion on how the games place enemies.
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May 25, 2016 16:11
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It's not so bad right now (surprise gank squad early on in that area Geop couldn't progress in nonwithstanding - that's a look at the poo poo you need to deal with as the game goes on) but the game does have some truly dickish encounters later on that I don't think Dark Souls 1 can match at all. There are two in particular that enrage me quite a lot but there are other smaller examples of facing two fast and/or large enemies minimum throughout the game. I'll leave you with this for now while we await these encounters in the LP itself; think back to Lost Izalith. MGlBlaze fucked around with this message at 16:17 on May 25, 2016 |
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May 25, 2016 16:12
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Tempest_56 posted:Well here - let's play out the first encounter with each game. I suppose that's true, although step up the ladder from the DS2 point and then you have a large array of sleeping dudes (like 10-15 of them?) and your options are either to kill them all one at a time in a tedious manner, or run back and risk waking up a bunch of them to harass you. In the DS1 point you run into that axe-dagger-firebomb trio I mentioned earlier. In the long run the DS2 one is not insurmountable, but the difficulty curve is gentler in Dark Souls 1, while in Dark Souls 2 it can leap up all over the place, and we'll see more examples of that as time goes on. FPzero posted:Honestly, this first area isn't the best for comparisons between the two games regarding enemy density. This is more of a conversation to be had later because I'm playing Dark Souls 1 and 2 simultaneously right now, having never beaten either of them, and I'm noticing a lot of significant difference in how both games handle enemy encounters in the mid-to-late game. I know I can think of at least a few places off the top of my mind. Maybe once Geop gets to some of those areas there would be a more appropriate time for a discussion on how the games place enemies. Yeah, I guess we should probably wait until we have more examples. I may be too eager to put on my game design criticism hat too early.
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May 25, 2016 16:13
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Xanderkish posted:I suppose that's true, although step up the ladder from the DS2 point and then you have a large array of sleeping dudes (like 10-15 of them?) and your options are either to kill them all one at a time in a tedious manner, or run back and risk waking up a bunch of them to harass you. In the DS1 point you run into that axe-dagger-firebomb trio I mentioned earlier. In the long run the DS2 one is not insurmountable, but the difficulty curve is gentler in Dark Souls 1, while in Dark Souls 2 it can leap up all over the place, and we'll see more examples of that as time goes on. Oh no, I agree on that encounter - that one's interesting in theory but it's tediously too long. It could be good if there were half as many dudes or if there was more variety. It's a bad fight. And yeah, later on there's some egregious poor choices, but that's for later talk. I just think the complaints about DS2 just throwing bodies at you is mostly overblown, and people don't remember DS1 so well.
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May 25, 2016 17:08
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Night10194 posted:This seems monumentally unwise. Sounds like something a cleric would say. You're not a cleric, are you?
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May 25, 2016 19:52
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RBA Starblade posted:How? I'm back there in my game right now and it sounds fun. It's part of some trick involving Fall Control combined with quitting+reloading to negate massive drop deaths. Since technically the NLR water doesnt kill you, just preventing any Non-Lethal-Drop access to the lower area, doing the trick allows you to run around Under Da Sea. Go to 53 minutes into this video to see it in action.
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May 26, 2016 01:45
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Need a mod for this game of Geop's reading replacing Cale's lines (including them talking over him entirely). Seriously though, if needing to hear out every last thing an NPC says to actually get items from them wasn't bad enough, there's a delay of like a full two seconds after each line before they say the next. It's really weird and annoying, especially when you're conditioned never to try skipping in case you miss some sort of neat detail.
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May 26, 2016 08:24
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If there's a dude who rambles and isn't cool (**SHAQ CAT**), I'm gonna probably do that to save time. Cale is even named after a boring food, so the boot fits so far! 
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May 26, 2016 16:33
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Sweet Shalquoir is the coolest NPC in any Dark Souls game and it isn't particularly close. Not saying others are bad, she's just miles ahead.
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May 26, 2016 22:01
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armoredgorilla posted:Sweet Shalquoir is the coolest NPC in any Dark Souls game and it isn't particularly close. Not saying others are bad, she's just miles ahead. Hmm... mmm... hmm
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May 26, 2016 22:06
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Laputanmachine posted:Hmm... mmm... hmm That overstayed its welcome after they put Seigblüd in Bloodborne
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May 26, 2016 22:38
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The only thing I hate about losing souls, specifically in DS2, haven't played DS3, is Soul Memory. Souls lost that way are effectively wasted. Which I hate.
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May 27, 2016 02:10
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Thank heavens that From didn't think to add a soul utilization efficiency % next to the soul memory count. It would've broken people.
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May 27, 2016 02:49
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Dont the expansions/scholar have something that locks soul mem?
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May 27, 2016 04:10
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*professional spoiler free government man voice* I can neither confirm or deny
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May 27, 2016 04:18
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Doesn't soul mem only matter for invading/bro-oping? Which i assume geop is going to do very little of at best. So would be barely a spoiler either way?
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May 27, 2016 15:49
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Soul Memory has two effects. One is multiplayer range (invasion, co-op, duels, everything), and the other would be a spoiler (though honestly that part is only really relevant for speedrunners).
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May 27, 2016 15:57
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Harrow posted:Soul Memory has two effects. One is multiplayer range (invasion, co-op, duels, everything), and the other would be a spoiler (though honestly that part is only really relevant for speedrunners).
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May 27, 2016 17:10
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Paracelsus posted:The second effect is separate from Soul Memory. I figured they'd used Soul Memory to calculate it, but apparently not then!
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May 27, 2016 17:53
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Harrow posted:I figured they'd used Soul Memory to calculate it, but apparently not then!
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May 27, 2016 18:08
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Raygereio posted:It probably is calculated internally using Soul Memory. The actual effect is determined by the total souls obtained in your current playthrough. So in NG+, the souls you collected in NG don't count. Ahh, okay, that makes sense.
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May 27, 2016 18:32
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I forgot how much I hate this game. From the walking animations to the way it looks and the colors they decided to use, I hate it all. It just looks like poo poo. Maybe it is just because it's different but I hate it. I didn't like how the enemies disappear if you kill them enough times. Back in my day when there were only two souls games out there you had to get better at beating the enemies. In this game the game just turns babby mode on if you suck enough. Also, it punishes you for adventuring and exploring the areas. Exploration in these games usually invovles going through an area multiple times and killing all the enemies along the way. In this game if you do that enough times the game just takes the gameplay part out of it. You end up exploring empty areas and it makes it feel more like a game and not a real environment. Not that these games are known for their realism but you know what I mean. Its the only souls game that I have never played after beating and the only one that I did not buy the DLC for it. I really really dislike this game and the more I watch this LP the more I'm reminded of how much hatred I have towards it. I'll still watch you guys since hatred is the only thing I can still feel.
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May 27, 2016 19:25
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quote:In this game if you do that enough times the game just takes the gameplay part out of it. You had to do that twelve times in one game per enemy for it to happen. It's not really that big a deal unless you're actively trying to do it.
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May 27, 2016 19:37
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