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Kazinsal posted:Wait for someone to put out a non-blower, preferably without a hard power cap at 180W. EVGA or MSI are likely your best bets. Rest assured, when boards are announced, this thread will be all over them. Right on, thanks guys. Do we expect that announcement within weeks or is it gonna be months?
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May 25, 2016 19:07
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fletcher posted:So if I want to get a 1080, which one should I be waiting for? A big name brand that isn't the lamest cooler, which they usually release first anyway. I'm sure there will be a MSI 1080 8G Gaming (Twin Frozer cooler), EVGA 1080 SC, Gigabyte Windforce (probably want to avoid the G1 variant unless benchmarks say its actually better, but you definitely want the good cooler), ASUS 1080 Strix, to just guess at the big ones. Naming subject to change and all that what you really want is the good cooler, but not paying more for higher pre-overclocked version of the same card on top of that. There is no way to tell if they are all going to be solid right off the bat but thats the category I'd personally be interested in. In the past they typically retail for $20-$40 over MSRP. Of course I'd wait for actual benchmarks as well but they pretty much get released the same day, and if you can stand being patient enough the "important" benchmarks will be once they compare the different aftermarkets with each other. The big question is 1) did they gently caress it up, which is usually apparent quickly, such as power delivery or badly designed heatsinks (EVGA heatpipe mini fiasco and MSI stickergate come to mind last time around). The less important differences will be relative noise (temp, heatsink/fan design), size of the card, stuff like that, but overall they tend to be splitting hairs. There will be a mad rush to buy cards so its more like "which one of the good ones can I buy at this instant" and thats the one you get lol fletcher posted:Right on, thanks guys. Do we expect that announcement within weeks or is it gonna be months? As soon as two days (for announcement), but no more than weeks penus penus penus fucked around with this message at 19:18 on May 25, 2016 |
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May 25, 2016 19:15
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fletcher posted:So if I want to get a 1080, which one should I be waiting for?
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May 25, 2016 19:39
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never understood the love for EVGA. their designs are miles behind other AIBs. yeah, i concede their service is a lot better. but who cares when you can buy from a decent retailer like microcenter or amazon using a CC and never have to deal with RMA anyway.
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May 25, 2016 19:42
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calusari posted:never understood the love for EVGA. their designs are miles behind other AIBs. yeah, i concede their service is a lot better. but who cares when you can buy from a decent retailer like microcenter or amazon using a CC and never have to deal with RMA anyway.  I dont either. They appear adequate. I dislike their model scheme a lot. But its the only major brand I haven't owned so I don't feel like I can poo poo talk with confidence. But yeah, same price tends to get you the a reference board with an ok cooler vs a non reference board with a better cooler with other brands (and im not including the 970 fuckup, I just mean in general). B-stock is very popular but I mean that's kind of unrelated. I mean I'll buy one if the price is right and its got the features I want but that just was never the case anytime I was looking. I suppose if I cared about warranty, however I have never once had an issue with... a lot of cards and a lot of those from what are considered poo poo companies. My tune might change if I did experience a real RMA issue
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May 25, 2016 19:49
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calusari posted:never understood the love for EVGA. their designs are miles behind other AIBs. yeah, i concede their service is a lot better. but who cares when you can buy from a decent retailer like microcenter or amazon using a CC and never have to deal with RMA anyway. Because their cards, like any, can fail two months in, or a two and a half years in. If that happens, they'll take much better care of you than anyone else. Their cards have the best resale value for this reason as well. I've never used their step-up program but having three months to pay the difference in your invoice amount and get a better model of card is certainly nice, in case NVidia sneaks out a 1080ti. Lastly, let's not kid ourselves, heat sinks are becoming less and less important because the wattage on cards is dropping dramatically. EVGA's base twin-fan cooler on the 980ti was already passive on 2D and quiet for 3D, and the TDP is cut about a third lower now. They have straight hosed up some coolers like the first batch 970 heatsink contact, but MSI had a similar issue with stickergate. A mediocre twin fan cooler is going to be quieter at load than the pump noise on an AIO. Edit: also, Protip: buy the cheapest twin-fan model of whichever EVGA card you want, don't bother with the superclock stuff. The 980ti's all overclock within a percent or so of each other, so there's no need to spend an extra $30-100 for the factory OC stuff. Zero VGS fucked around with this message at 20:10 on May 25, 2016 |
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May 25, 2016 20:02
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I had a 660ti from evga and it died after a year. They cross shipped me a 4gb 760 in like 2 days and I didn't have to pay a dime.
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May 25, 2016 20:05
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calusari posted:never understood the love for EVGA. their designs are miles behind other AIBs. yeah, i concede their service is a lot better. but who cares when you can buy from a decent retailer like microcenter or amazon using a CC and never have to deal with RMA anyway. Most of it comes from people who like watercooling, since they are one of (if not the?) only manufacturers who explicitly state they will still honor their warranty if you remove the heatsink and watercool, provided you don't actually do physical damage to the card while doing so. Stack on the transferable warranty and it's pretty attractive to people like me, since I can watercool it for the year or so I'll actually own it, and then sell it on eBay or whatever at a solid price because the warranty is still intact. Their step-up program is also nice. But yeah, from a pure design standpoint they're not really any better than MSI or ASUS, and the last go-'round their initial ACX coolers were crap (2nd gen ones were fine, though). Zero VGS posted:A mediocre twin fan cooler is going to be quieter at load than the pump noise on an AIO. DrDork fucked around with this message at 20:10 on May 25, 2016 |
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May 25, 2016 20:06
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I'm still undecided what to do about building a very small form factor PC. The best cards are most likely gonna be open coolers so I'll be dumping a lot of hot air into a very small space. Why did NVIDIA decide to gently caress up with a reference cooler/power formula that has been working great for a few generations, and to add insult to injury charge consumers more for this inferior solution. DrDork posted:The cheapest EVGA so you can rip off the cooler and slap an AIO on there and run it like god intended (warranty intact), obviously. This won't solve the power delivery issue on the reference cards. The moment I saw it only had one PCI-E power input, I knew things were gonna be fishy. I hope third parties are gonna re-do the PCB not only for better cooling, but for extra voltage.
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May 25, 2016 20:12
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THE DOG HOUSE posted:I agree its reasonable to think but, at least they haven't done it so far and they certainly could have Smaller fabrication process should lead to cheaper cards, not more expensive ones, since more chips are created using the same size wafer
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May 25, 2016 20:13
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So I've been reading more about open-fan vs blower-fan vs liquid cooled and all that. It seems to me that blowers offer the advantage of a lower profile and consistent cooling, albeit not the best at cooling, whereas open-fan is the best cooling you can get but tends to be really bulky and hard to either SLI or fit in smaller form factor cases. Do I have that right?
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May 25, 2016 20:18
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Animal posted:This won't solve the power delivery issue on the reference cards. The moment I saw it only had one PCI-E power input, I knew things were gonna be fishy. I hope third parties are gonna re-do the PCB not only for better cooling, but for extra voltage. Siets posted:So I've been reading more about open-fan vs blower-fan vs liquid cooled and all that. It seems to me that blowers offer the advantage of a lower profile and consistent cooling, albeit not the best at cooling, whereas open-fan is the best cooling you can get but tends to be really bulky and hard to either SLI or fit in smaller form factor cases. Do I have that right? More or less. Blowers are great for multi-GPU setups where the motherboard doesn't have the PCIe slots far enough apart to allow for sufficient cooling otherwise, or for people with SFF cases that need to eject the hot air out of the case vice letting it hang around inside. Open air almost always results in better GPU cooling performance, assuming the rest of your setup supports it. Watercooling/AIOs will generally get you the lowest temps and the quietest performance, but are expensive and have their own special snowflake issues. DrDork fucked around with this message at 20:23 on May 25, 2016 |
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May 25, 2016 20:19
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Zero VGS posted:Their cards have the best resale value for this reason as well. I've never used their step-up program but having three months to pay the difference in your invoice amount and get a better model of card is certainly nice, in case NVidia sneaks out a 1080ti. This is probably just two of the reasons I'll buy a 1080 from EVGA in like September or October. You can pretty much assume the 1080 Ti or the new Titan will be out by December. This way I can still sell my 980 Ti for like $400, get the 1080 for +$180, then when the step up is available upgrade for +$150. Buying a 1080 right now is just a no go for me. I do want to upgrade to 2011-3 for a 6c behemoth with 64/128GB of ram. I would like to try something like unRaid and have like a gaming PC my friend or family members can use while I'm also using it. SlayVus fucked around with this message at 20:42 on May 25, 2016 |
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May 25, 2016 20:40
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Ninkobei posted:Smaller fabrication process should lead to cheaper cards, not more expensive ones, since more chips are created using the same size wafer
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May 25, 2016 20:59
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Ninkobei posted:Smaller fabrication process should lead to cheaper cards, not more expensive ones, since more chips are created using the same size wafer Material cost isn't a huge driving factor in the MSRP.
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May 25, 2016 21:04
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Ninkobei posted:Smaller fabrication process should lead to cheaper cards, not more expensive ones, since more chips are created using the same size wafer It doesn't always work out this way. Newer, smaller processes also typically have a much higher defect rate, which leads to more waste or a higher number of lower binned chips. It usually takes a while for manufacturing a chip on a new process to mature enough to the point where it can drastically cut costs down.
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May 25, 2016 21:31
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Can someone that has done the EVGA step up program please comment on the process? I am looking at just getting the GTX 970 and then upgrading to the 1070 in the next month or two when some non FE come out. Am I safe in assuming that picking up one of the Amazon.com 970s will enable me to do this, and I'll only be expected to pay the difference between the Amazon price and EVGAs website when the 1070s are posted?
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May 25, 2016 21:38
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You upload the invoice from Amazon to your EVGA account you use to register the product. When a step up is available, you can upgrade when EVGA allows you to for price of product minus video card subtotal on your invoice. You'll have to pay shipping & handling for the card to you, I don't know about S&H fees to send the 970 back to EVGA.
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May 25, 2016 21:45
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excidium posted:Can someone that has done the EVGA step up program please comment on the process? I am looking at just getting the GTX 970 and then upgrading to the 1070 in the next month or two when some non FE come out. Am I safe in assuming that picking up one of the Amazon.com 970s will enable me to do this, and I'll only be expected to pay the difference between the Amazon price and EVGAs website when the 1070s are posted? Correct (plus shipping the card to EVGA). The iffy bits are that EVGA does not guarantee release dates or access to any particular card, so while it's presumed that the 1070 will be part of the step up program, no one knows when they'll enable it, or what tiers they'll have. Conceivably they might not enable it for several months, but I rather doubt it because doing so would entirely invalidate the whole point of the step up program in the first place. More likely, you'll be able to get the 1070 within the 90 day window if you buy one soon, but if supplies are short you'll get put in a queue that may take several weeks before they have a card ready for you. As long as you file the request prior to 90 day, though, you're good even if you file on day 89 and they take 3 weeks to have a step up card ready for you (though in that case do NOT cancel it because you decided you want to step up to something different--on day 91 you're SOL).
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May 25, 2016 21:46
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Number19 posted:It doesn't always work out this way. Newer, smaller processes also typically have a much higher defect rate, which leads to more waste or a higher number of lower binned chips. To further expand on this, it's probably why AMD is heavily leaning on GloFo this generation, as their licensed 14nm FinFET from Samsung is, relatively speaking, quite mature by now.
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May 25, 2016 21:50
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Ninkobei posted:Smaller fabrication process should lead to cheaper cards, not more expensive ones, since more chips are created using the same size wafer The chip cost is tiny though, I think its something like $15 for an actual chip. Its the billions upon billions spent on R&D for the factory, the chip design, the technology involved to get to that point that we are paying for. I think the cooler costs more in materials than the GPU itself in every case, sometimes many times more.
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May 25, 2016 21:53
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I wish PNY had a step up program, but I have had great luck with their cards and their lifetime warranty seems to be rather problem free as well. Their cards always seem to be a bit more expensive than everyone else however which can be a pain. It's a battle between them an ASUS but I may have to take a look at EVGA just incase I get a Ti and Nvidia drops something like a 1090Ti for whatever reason within 90 days...
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May 25, 2016 22:10
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excidium posted:Can someone that has done the EVGA step up program please comment on the process? I am looking at just getting the GTX 970 and then upgrading to the 1070 in the next month or two when some non FE come out. Am I safe in assuming that picking up one of the Amazon.com 970s will enable me to do this, and I'll only be expected to pay the difference between the Amazon price and EVGAs website when the 1070s are posted? poo poo this is a good idea. I'm considering this myself now...
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May 25, 2016 22:17
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THE DOG HOUSE posted:The chip cost is tiny though, I think its something like $15 for an actual chip. Its the billions upon billions spent on R&D for the factory, the chip design, the technology involved to get to that point that we are paying for. I think the cooler costs more in materials than the GPU itself in every case, sometimes many times more. Testing too. It gets more and more expensive to test and identify defects when you pack more and more transistors in.
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May 25, 2016 22:18
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Dammit where the hell did this come from? A 15.6" Asus with a 980M? Only MSI was making a really slim sick looking 980M powered 15"er before. drat... I really want to see this with a 1080M in it though before I bite on something like this.
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May 25, 2016 22:34
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Ninkobei posted:Smaller fabrication process should lead to cheaper cards, not more expensive ones, since more chips are created using the same size wafer That's actually the part of Moore's law that is breaking down the fastest, the typical increase in transistors/$ for moving to a new process node is going down. I'm guessing that's why the 1070 and 1080 are on a pretty small die, they could have made it bigger and faster but it just would have cost too much at this time.
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May 25, 2016 22:45
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EdEddnEddy posted:Dammit where the hell did this come from? A 15.6" Asus with a 980M? Only MSI was making a really slim sick looking 980M powered 15"er before. drat... Sager and Gigabyte also make a similar "980M in a slim profile" laptops. I picked one up last year. Fantastic performance.
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May 25, 2016 22:49
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AIDA64 developers posted the full set of Pascal parts and PCI IDs: http://videocardz.com/60289/breaking-news-aida64-developers-confirm-pascal-gp102-gp106-gp107-and-gp108 Confirms that the "Big-ish Pascal" GP102 part exists. repiv fucked around with this message at 22:55 on May 25, 2016 |
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May 25, 2016 22:50
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Could the newer process be another reason why they don't want to include the extra power? Just so idiots don't too much voltage through the chip similar to sandy bridge vs ivy bridge.
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May 25, 2016 22:55
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Siets posted:Sager and Gigabyte also make a similar "980M in a slim profile" laptops. I picked one up last year. Fantastic performance. Yea I have seen those around, but they all seemed bulkier and more generic. MSI really hit a nice small and powerful look, but their build quality and loudness under load was a bit of a downer. (Though they included everything in there with an optical drive that can be swapped for another HDD which was pretty snazzy). Will have to see how this Strix laptop plays out and when it gets an upgrade to a 1080M then I might bite on that. The G73JH is starting to show its age and I need to find it a home with someone who likes LoL/Dota/Diablo/whatever as it does that just fine.
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May 25, 2016 23:03
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Also kind of confirms that GP100 is almost entirely meant for HPC, there are two listings for non GL variants. So it looks like it's going to shake out as GP102 > Vega > GP104 > Polaris 10 ~= GP106 > Polaris 11 > GP107/108 ~= AMD iGPU. Nvidia can shutdown AMD by potentially offering GP102 at a cheaper price point by using a conventional bus and GDDR5X, despite being a potentially bigger chip than Vega, which will use HBM2 (GP102 is rumored ~470mm² vs Vega's ~380mm²). RIP AMD.
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May 25, 2016 23:03
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That's assuming there isn't a Vega 11 that's just GDDR5X being worked on, though, which will likely be the 490/X
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May 25, 2016 23:09
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:That's assuming there isn't a Vega 11 that's just GDDR5X being worked on, though, which will likely be the 490/X The only people who even suggest a Vega 11 are AnandTech, there is no other confirmation whatsoever about a "Vega 11". Also, where would it fit? I guess 3328SPs would fit right into the middle but seems to be a super awkward number to fit to TMUs and ROPs (3328:208:104?), and that'd only just match a 1080, and I'm not going to give AMD that much foresight or benefit of the doubt, sounds more like a desperate pipedream. Although, humorously, the "Vega in October" rumor would be kind of funny with a Vega 11 release instead of Vega 10.
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May 25, 2016 23:21
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FaustianQ posted:RIP AMD. I think this is some kind of magic spell that prevents them from ever going under. poo poo, even if they aren't as good, at least this time there will actually be cards ...
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May 25, 2016 23:24
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If they're going to do such a thing it'd probably be mid-2017 until we see it, but the margins on HBM parts if they make it to the 490X branding would be rather low, even at $550.
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May 25, 2016 23:25
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FaustianQ posted:Nvidia can shutdown AMD by potentially offering GP102 at a cheaper price point by using a conventional bus and GDDR5X, despite being a potentially bigger chip than Vega, which will use HBM2 (GP102 is rumored ~470mm² vs Vega's ~380mm²). RIP AMD. AMD optimist here - He who controls the consoles controls the universe. AMD is in the very unique position to guide the gaming industry into optimizing for their hardware. Having a chip that rolls over AMD's by 30% is great but if the games are built to use lower powered, multiple core chips then the advantage flows right back to AMD. e: optimized for AMD's technology, whatever that is. not necessarily "low power multi core chips" . Setset fucked around with this message at 23:40 on May 25, 2016 |
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May 25, 2016 23:36
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FaustianQ posted:Nvidia can shutdown AMD by potentially offering GP102 at a cheaper price point by using a conventional bus and GDDR5X, despite being a potentially bigger chip than Vega, which will use HBM2 (GP102 is rumored ~470mm² vs Vega's ~380mm²). RIP AMD. Hopefully AMD had the foresight to split the GCN4 design like Pascal, with a native 1:2 FP64 core at the top and native 1:16 or 1:32 cores everywhere else. If they release Vega 10 dragging a bunch of vestigial FP64 ALUs against a native 1:32 GP102 it'll be a slaughter 
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May 25, 2016 23:38
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Ninkobei posted:AMD optimist here - He who controls the consoles controls the universe. AMD is in the very unique position to guide the gaming industry into optimizing for their hardware. Having a chip that rolls over AMD's by 30% is great but if the games are built to use lower powered, multiple core chips then the advantage flows right back to AMD. I don't think this has near as much weight as people like to tout repiv posted:Hopefully AMD had the foresight to split the GCN4 design like Pascal, with a native 1:2 FP64 core at the top and native 1:16 or 1:32 cores everywhere else. Nah, seems like from Tonga/Fiji AMD will have a 1:16 1:32 approach. Really, there isn't much reason to have double precision in spades for their designs, no one is picking up FirePro and OpenCL compared to GeForce anything and CUDA. AMD won't compete in Nvidia's space for a long time, if ever. THE DOG HOUSE posted:I think this is some kind of magic spell that prevents them from ever going under. poo poo, even if they aren't as good, at least this time there will actually be cards ... AMD needs to sell "Reaper" and "Peacemaker" editions of their cards to fully integrate the magic spell into their products. Even make the blowers looks like tombstones. That might actually be good marketing though.
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May 25, 2016 23:51
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EdEddnEddy posted:I wish PNY had a step up program, but I have had great luck with their cards and their lifetime warranty seems to be rather problem free as well. Their cards always seem to be a bit more expensive than everyone else however which can be a pain. It's a battle between them an ASUS but I may have to take a look at EVGA just incase I get a Ti and Nvidia drops something like a 1090Ti for whatever reason within 90 days... Pny won't even let you transfer warranty
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May 26, 2016 00:07
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THE DOG HOUSE posted:I think this is some kind of magic spell that prevents them from ever going under. poo poo, even if they aren't as good, at least this time there will actually be cards ... Someone in another tech thread said Intel gives money(invests in them or something) to AMD. That would be their magic.
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May 26, 2016 00:08
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