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team overhead smash posted:Also apparently when he was told there were three jokers in answer to his question of the Joker's name, God-Batman never thought to ask a rephrased follow-up question of "what are the names of the three jokers" Finger, Kane, and Robinson, surely. Alternately, there's some version of the class sketch to develop here. Let me give it a shot: The Three Jokers/Ms Moore Joker: (Tourist outfit, beard) I look down on him (Indicates Morrison Joker) because I am upper-class. Morrison Joker: (Suspenders, blood, bald) I look up to him (Moore Joker) because he is upper-class; but I look down on him (Miller Joker) because he is lower-class. I am middle-class. Miller Joker: (Bespoke suit, faces of meth) I know my place. I look up to them both. But I don't look up to him (Morrison Joker) as much as I look up to him (Moore Joker), because he has got good writing. Moore Joker: I have got good writing, but I have not got any money. So sometimes I look up *bends knees, does so* to him (Morrison Joker). Morrison Joker: I still look up to him (Moore Joker) because although I have money, I am vulgar. But I am not as vulgar as him (Miller Joker) so I still look down on him (Miller Joker). Miller Joker: I know my place. I look up to them both; but while I am poo poo, I am still very popular. Had I the inclination, I could look down on them. But I don't. Morrison Joker: We all know our place, but what do we get out of it? Moore Joker: I get a feeling of superiority over them. Morrison Joker: I get a feeling of inferiority from him, (Moore Joker), but a feeling of superiority over him (Miller Joker). Miller Joker: I get a pain in the back of my neck. *snaps own neck* Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 19:30 on May 25, 2016 |
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Four Score posted:So black people hair isn't hair? Last I checked Black people can have longer hair then that.
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May 25, 2016 20:10
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With the way Omega Men ended, I'm not surprised Kyle isn't in the Rebirth group shot. I'd probably take time out of the hero business too.
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May 25, 2016 20:32
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Teenage Fansub posted:With the way Omega Men ended, I'm not surprised Kyle isn't in the Rebirth group shot.
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May 25, 2016 20:44
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So, I read JL 50, L and C 8, Superman 52, and Rebirth. JL 50 was extremely, atrociously bad. Like the very worst excesses of Geoff Johns, an ugly depressing and grim and gritty and REAL comic that was a convoluted mess of stories and characters and plots, that utilized the killing of women many, many times to impress how serious the stakes were. For all of Johns' talk about how Rebirth is the rejection of darkness, everything about JL 50 was a reinforcement of the status quo. It was gross, and genuinely offensive. There were some really good moments, namely some Wonder Woman stuff with her ex, the GLing of Jessica Cruz (although that seems like a bit of a long-overdue apology for the rapey way she got turned into Power Ring), and the final moment with Grail and her mom but it's all cancelled out by all the death and grim n' grittiness and using babies as weapons and the multiple deaths of Darkseid. Just a trainwreck. L and C 8 was really nice, even if it had some atrociously bad dialog and a kid character who never, not once, believably talked like a kid. Ultimately kind of unimportant, but a nice comic. Superman 52 was the standout, able to kill off Superman while remaining sad (instead of GRIM) and still hopeful, a good page turn. Rebirth...is a mess. The Wally West stuff is loving great and making him the narrator of the whole book totally works. The little interactions he has with everyone he meets is genuinely really affecting, and even the reunion with Barry Allen works. Everything else is safely ignorable because I haven't been up-to-date on DC, but the reintroduction of the Justice Society and Legion were both great, emotional moments. The introduction of a gay black Aqualad (?) is a good new step for DC to take. I still really like Jessica Cruz as the "main" GL, another progressive step. The Dr. M stuff was all, all of it, exactly as bad as I feared. The death of Pandora was terrible and Johns explicitly shifting blame onto Watchmen for his own lovely writing the literal same exact day an issue of a comic that he wrote that illustrates how awful he is at writing came out in JL 50, with all of his very worst tendencies and the tendencies of New 52 in general. It was gross, it was cynical, and if I'm being honest it was a bit offensive, tainting the memories I have of one of my favorite books ever written. I really hope DC steers away from the Dr. M stuff because it really tainted a strong, emotionally effective Wally West story. Like, that whole "it's not your fault Barry Allen" stuff was a really lovely retcon that shifts even further blame on a completely unrelated thirty-year-old character that came across as completely unearned. So yeah, mixed bag. I'm excited to see more Wally West in Rebirth and there's various elements in play that are interesting - new Teen Titans, married Clark Kent, new Aqualad, new JSA, new Legion, Jessica Cruz GL - that I'll follow up on. As it stands, though, everything about Dr. M is atrocious and makes me very nervous when the next event is set up. No matter how bad comics are, they don't make the ones you like retroactively bad - except for the truly awful ones, which is why Identity Crisis and Sins Past suck so loving hard. It makes every appearance of Dr. Light and many JL Silver Age stories full of rape and mind-wiping, and a lot of Gwen Stacy stories into how she was having a secret affair with Norman Osborn. I really, really hope this Dr. Manhattan stuff doesn't ruin the end of Watchmen for me, but as it stands I'm not exactly confident. NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 21:21 on May 25, 2016 |
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May 25, 2016 21:09
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It would be super cool to go ONE day without reading the word rape here. Just one.
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May 25, 2016 21:11
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Norns posted:It would be super cool to go ONE day without reading the word rape here. Just one. Well if it makes you feel better, there is none of it in Rebirth. Also, Toxxupation, Spider-Man fans have been ignoring One More Day since it came out, so I'd argue that even the really bad comics don't have the power to retroactively ruin good ones. We all cherry-pick the good stuff while ignoring the bad in every large shared universe, this will be no different. JoshTheStampede fucked around with this message at 21:20 on May 25, 2016 |
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May 25, 2016 21:18
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Toxxupation posted:So, I read JL 50, L and C 8, Superman 52, and Rebirth. I don't know how anyone could call "People threatening one another with various magic babies" grim OR gritty. It's a big stupid comic, it's loud, it barely makes sense. Again, there's multiple weaponized magic babies.
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May 25, 2016 21:27
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ElNarez posted:I don't know how anyone could call "People threatening one another with various magic babies" grim OR gritty. Its tone was incredibly self-serious. It wasn't "Man, we're using babies as weapons, look at how dumb this is!" It was "Man, we're using babies as weapons. Look at how SERIOUS and affecting this is."
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May 25, 2016 21:32
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Teenage Fansub posted:With the way Omega Men ended, I'm not surprised Kyle isn't in the Rebirth group shot. What happened to Kyle?
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May 25, 2016 22:02
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You know the only thing that's really killing my interest in Rebirth at this moment is still the double shipping. I'd be looking forward to it much more if it were only like a handful of the books.
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May 25, 2016 22:03
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team overhead smash posted:Also apparently when he was told there were three jokers in answer to his question of the Joker's name, God-Batman never thought to ask a rephrased follow-up question of "what are the names of the three jokers"
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May 25, 2016 22:11
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I really want to know how they reconcile Dr. M being the bad guy and having a "cynical" view of life, when he explicitly states at the end of Watchmen that all human life is precious and a "thermodynamic miracle"
Monaghan fucked around with this message at 22:14 on May 25, 2016 |
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May 25, 2016 22:12
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X-O posted:You know the only thing that's really killing my interest in Rebirth at this moment is still the double shipping. I'd be looking forward to it much more if it were only like a handful of the books. Yeah, me too. Wonder Woman I can get behind since its actually two different stories interleaved, which effectively makes it no different than Bendis or Hickman or whoever writing multiple books every month. But double shipping 2 (3?) Batman or Superman books every month is a bit much.
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May 25, 2016 22:16
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rebirth is straight up hot garbage and i have never despised dc more or thought less of their overall direction than last night when i read it
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May 25, 2016 22:23
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Monaghan posted:I really want to know how they reconcile Dr. M being the bad guy and having a "cynical" view of life, when he explicitly states at the end of Watchmen that all human life is precious and a "thermodynamic miracle" It's pretty amazing that Johns literally quotes Manhattan's final words to Adrian from Watchmen, and seems to have missed that they're ambivalent. It's not a threat. It's a fact. Nothing ends. But that's not inherently bad, just that it means Ozy didn't magically fix everything forever and ever. But I'm pretty sure they'll either ignore that and act like he learned nothing or at best, say he found he was wrong somehow. At worst, and I'm not kinda afraid they'll do this: I think they might even claim this is Jon from in the MIDDLE of Watchmen, and the end to this meta-plot will be that Laurie was only able to convince him in the original book because Superman punched him real hard or gave him a speech that Ma Kent once told him. Also, because we were doing it in the spoiler thread, I'm currently on board for: *Detective (I like the roster and JTIV has a fairly good track record for me) *Nightwing (Really like Seeley and love the costume. Nightwing was my first Big Two book, too,) *Wonder Woman (RUCKA. Also Nicola Scott, and I love Diana as a character) *Supergirl (Heard good stuff about Orlando, and Emanuela is real good, her pencils on Starfire were so nice) *Superwoman (Might not last long for me, but the idea intrigues) *Birds of Prey (New creative team, cool designs, was already reading Black Canary and I've been a fan of the team for almost as long as I have of Nightwing) *Batgirl (Not really a new thing, just carrying on from the previous book) Am pondering Green Lanterns, will carry on for Gotham Academy if it does keep going and will likely try Batman Beyond when it launches.
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May 25, 2016 22:58
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I heard someone mention JSA was coming back. Any word on who's doing that book?
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May 25, 2016 23:07
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X-O posted:You know the only thing that's really killing my interest in Rebirth at this moment is still the double shipping. I'd be looking forward to it much more if it were only like a handful of the books. Same here. There are a few titles that I want to read but no way I can afford with the double shipping. Probably going to trade wait a few titles now.
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May 25, 2016 23:09
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It's loving criminal these books aren't coming with digital codes at this point.
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May 25, 2016 23:12
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DC Rebirth books I'll be checking out. Batman* Detective Comics* Nightwing* Batgirl Action Comics* Superman* Supergirl Wonder Woman* Trinity Flash* Super Sons Blue Beetle That's seven twice monthly titles and five monthly titles. I wish Titans was written by anyone else but Abnett because I really wanted to read something with Wally. But I'm not going to get drawn into another of his books based on hopes that this is the one where he finally gets his poo poo together. Other books like Green Arrow, Deathstroke by Priest, or even Cyborg (who I don't like at all but the writer gave a really interesting pitch for it at the Rebirth streaming event) I might have taken a look at but I have no interest in buying two of each of those titles a month.
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May 25, 2016 23:18
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Im gonna be reading: Batman - Pretty much on the strength of Tom King, would rather it had a better art team, but could be worse. Detective - Solely because of the cast. I love all of these characters. Tynion IV is...adequate. Batgirl & the Birds of Prey - Mostly for the characters involved and the art. Wonder Woman - should be obvious. I really hope everyone reads this book. Superman - I have enjoyed everything Tomasi and Gleason have done so far and I'm psyched to get Classic Supes back. I'm planning to check out the first few issues of a ton of others, though, just to see what they've got to offer. Batgirl, All-Star Batman, Trinity, Nightwing. Super-Sons I'm especially interested in. I hope it turns out good.
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May 25, 2016 23:26
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So many people are butthurt that they didn't reveal the Joker's identity as they advertised they were going to do.
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May 25, 2016 23:27
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Rhyno posted:So many people are butthurt that they didn't reveal the Joker's identity as they advertised they were going to do. You mean comic fans bitched about something happening and when it didn't happen they bitched then too? No way!
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May 25, 2016 23:30
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X-O posted:You mean comic fans bitched about something happening and when it didn't happen they bitched then too? No way! Something that was heavily hyped by the publisher and then then didn't follow through at all. They even sent out emails to retailers promising this revelation would be enormous and urged us to triple our orders. gently caress DC.
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May 25, 2016 23:33
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"Oh no, Adrian! New 52 is a creative and financial mess! WHAT DO WE DOOOOOOO?!" "We call The Watchmen!"
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May 25, 2016 23:37
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Gonna read Teen Titans, definitely King's Batman, Superman, Green Lanterns, maybe Nightwing, probably Birds of Prey, maybe Batman Beyond.
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May 25, 2016 23:41
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I'm probably going to read a few issues of Deathstroke. I usually find something worthwhile about Priest even when he's at maximum overplot.Gavok posted:"Oh no, Adrian! New 52 is a creative and financial mess! WHAT DO WE DOOOOOOO?!" o/~ Nite Owl is their leader, and he loves to party down o/~
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May 25, 2016 23:44
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I really loved Rebirth. Like promised, it is bringing back what was missing at DC for five years now: legacy. The universe is fixing itself, either on its own, or forcibly by Wally coming back or whatever. And then the Watchmen reveal... when I got to that page, I just laughed my rear end off. I'm not laughing at it. I enjoyed the absurdity of it all. DCU vs Watchmen? Alright, bring it on. I can appreciate that they are willing to do something so ridiculous. gently caress playing it safe. I liked how the final scene used Watchmen-esque paneling. Cute. This comic reminded me of what it felt like when I first started getting into comics, how reading some of the big stories got me excited. That just hasn't been happening for me for a while now. Hell, I'm not buying Civil War II, and I'm actually a Bendis fan. I just don't care. After reading Rebirth, I'm just really loving excited. Rhyno posted:So many people are butthurt that they didn't reveal the Joker's identity as they advertised they were going to do. In hindsight, I think it was incredibly silly to expect a "simple" answer to this question. How could it ever satisfy? "His name is Jack Napier." Okay... so, now what? It wouldn't contribute much to a story, it would just be... an answer. Now, this just raises so many more questions, which can be good for a story. And it might even tie into the Rebirth twist in a strange way.
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May 25, 2016 23:50
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I don't disagree that it was a silly thing to announce. But that didn't stop DC from announcing it and marketing it as a huge reveal.
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May 25, 2016 23:51
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Rhyno posted:Something that was heavily hyped by the publisher and then then didn't follow through at all. They even sent out emails to retailers promising this revelation would be enormous and urged us to triple our orders. Oh, so they actually gave away the twist to you and didn't realize it? Toxxupation posted:Gonna read Teen Titans ABORT ABORT ABORT
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May 25, 2016 23:53
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X-O posted:Oh, so they actually gave away the twist to you and didn't realize it? I'm surprised that wasn't their defense. WE SAID THE NUMBER 3 A LOT IN THE EMAIL HOW DID YOU NOT PICK UP ON IT.
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May 25, 2016 23:54
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Going to get Batman, All-Star Batman and Suicide Squad and Wonder Woman. After that it will be purely on discretion and reviews and how much my wallet can tolerate it.
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May 25, 2016 23:57
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X-O posted:
Does the writer suck or something? Those character redesigns looked pretty good.
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May 25, 2016 23:57
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Revol posted:I really loved Rebirth. Like promised, it is bringing back what was missing at DC for five years now: legacy. The universe is fixing itself, either on its own, or forcibly by Wally coming back or whatever. And then the Watchmen reveal... when I got to that page, I just laughed my rear end off. I'm not laughing at it. I enjoyed the absurdity of it all. DCU vs Watchmen? Alright, bring it on. I can appreciate that they are willing to do something so ridiculous. gently caress playing it safe. The very first page is also in the Watchmen 9-grid. But the thing that really sells the final scene is the lettering. Nick J. Napolitano did a good-rear end job on that.
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May 25, 2016 23:57
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Toxxupation posted:Does the writer suck or something? Those character redesigns looked pretty good. Because it's Teen Titans. Teen Titans is never good. Never. That is the one constant of the DC Universe.
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May 26, 2016 00:02
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Funny thing is, as excited as Rebirth got me, it doesn't change the fact that I'll be buying only one or two books going forward. While I love the direction everything is going, creator teams and individual stories don't jump out at me. I've been really impressed with Tom King lately, but David Finch? UGH. And that's a shame, because I love the other artist, Mikel Janin. The idea of a hero named "Gotham" seems really silly too. Rucka on Wonder Woman, including Nicola Scott in an origin story? Hype is off the charts for that book. Superman is probably going to be really good too, I should pull it as well. All the other major relaunches, I haven't seen a reason to write them off, but I'm not ready to invest in them yet. I need to read the first issue before I know if I am in or not. (Except for Suicide Squad. Still not interested in the concept itself.) Rhyno posted:I don't disagree that it was a silly thing to announce. But that didn't stop DC from announcing it and marketing it as a huge reveal. Sorry, didn't mean it that way. I just mean as a story plot. I don't know exactly how DC marketed it. I didn't pay attention to that. If they literally said "you will learn Joker's name", then fine, I get how the result is a cop out. I didn't go in with that literal explanation. Plus, I'm a fan of Morrison's idea of how the Joker evolves. This just takes it to a different level; instead of evolving, he's literally been different people in some way. Rhyno posted:They even sent out emails to retailers promising this revelation would be enormous and urged us to triple our orders. Oh, I didn't catch this. You disagree that this isn't a huge revelation? My argument is that this is bigger than any one true identity could be. It changes the Joker mythos more than a name ever could, and raises so many questions. Why? How? When? And of course the original Who?, but that is no longer a concern, really. The Joker just became a legacy, like Batman has been.
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May 26, 2016 00:04
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What's wrong with Abnett? I haven't read any of his comics before Titans Hunt but his novels are pretty good.
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May 26, 2016 00:04
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Revol posted:Oh, I didn't catch this. You disagree that this isn't a huge revelation? My argument is that this is bigger than any one true identity could be. It changes the Joker mythos more than a name ever could, and raises so many questions. Why? How? When? And of course the original Who?, but that is no longer a concern, really. The Joker just became a legacy, like Batman has been. I'm not saying this isn't a big reveal, the issue is they hyped it as one thing and then gave us another.
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May 26, 2016 00:05
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X-O posted:Because it's Teen Titans. Teen Titans is never good. Never. That is the one constant of the DC Universe. This has been a pet peeve of mine for so long. This is true, the Teen Titans hasn't been a really good book for decades. (I can't really vouch for when it might ever had been good, I've only been reading comics for 12 years.) I think it could easily be fixed by a change in concept: a large ensemble book about teenage superheroes going to a "school" to learn how to be a hero. The X-Men without the mutant bigotry metaphors. It almost took this route with Johns' run, but it only went halfway. Rhyno posted:I'm not saying this isn't a big reveal, the issue is they hyped it as one thing and then gave us another. Yeah, okay. I can see that. I'd be surprised if you had trouble moving your inventory on this issue, though. JoshTheStampede posted:What's wrong with Abnett? I haven't read any of his comics before Titans Hunt but his novels are pretty good. I don't think anything wrong with him, but he is not a writer whose credit on a book is going to get me excited. Same goes with Dan Jurgens. Jurgens is incredibly... serviceable. I can't remember the last time reading a Jurgens book thinking that it was refreshing and exciting.
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May 26, 2016 00:13
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Revol posted:I don't think anything wrong with him, but he is not a writer whose credit on a book is going to get me excited. Same goes with Dan Jurgens. Jurgens is incredibly... serviceable. I can't remember the last time reading a Jurgens book thinking that it was refreshing and exciting. I'd have said the same about Jurgens but Lois and Clark has been really good and I am looking forward to his Superman book in Rebirth.
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May 26, 2016 00:18
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