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LuffyVeggies posted:I think those stores there are always destroyed. I could be wrong, though - if anyone can correct me, please do. Also the "Guard attacks Roach" can happen at any time too - they might be more frequent when you're closer to the hidden timer (not sure), but it can still happen even when you're well ahead. Fortunately the standard Guard is a fairly buff badass and can wipe the floor with a lot of monsters (check them out with Scry - it's kinda impressive actually). On a totally different topic, that Steel Halberd is fantastic and true end game quality. I mean, there are a couple better weapons, but it is completely viable for the end game. As for the Anama, it's a complete mischaracterization to argue that they just want to be left alone. "An entire profession and al derived quality of life benefits should not exist at all." That's the core of their philosophy! Not exactly the kind of argument that lends itself to live-and-let-live. The current reality of the situation is that they're quietly and peacefully accepting things right now even for those who disagree, but its impossible to tell just how much of that is true tolerance versus simple pragmatism of not wanting to draw the Empire into play. EDIT: Also, the Mage in Shayder directly states that they're trying to make her life stressful - though it's not clear if that's just quiet comments every now and then or something more serious. MagusofStars fucked around with this message at 11:57 on May 26, 2016 |
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May 26, 2016 11:53
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Kacie posted:As to the Anama being like the Amish - I don't know enough about the Amish as to whether they call technology the "dark arts" but when you start throwing around the language the Anama have, doesn't taken long for someone to decide "gee, if it is evil and the dark art, we should purge that!" --Possibly I'm taking this too seriously due to demagoguery being slung about recently in national politics, but yeah, rather uneasy about this sort of language. Isn't the only person who has been talking about the "dark arts" a guy who's having a crisis of conscience and trying to justify his own beliefs to himself? MagusofStars posted:As for the Anama, it's a complete mischaracterization to argue that they just want to be left alone. "An entire profession and al derived quality of life benefits should not exist at all." That's the core of their philosophy! Not exactly the kind of argument that lends itself to live-and-let-live. This is pretty ridiculous, tbh. I can personally think of several professions that should ideally not exist at all in my opinion, but that doesn't mean that I'm busy stockpiling thumbscrews for all them payday lenders. There's really nothing in-game to indicate that the Anama are planning something sinister.
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May 26, 2016 14:30
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MagusofStars posted:On a totally different topic, that Steel Halberd is fantastic and true end game quality. I mean, there are a couple better weapons, but it is completely viable for the end game. For proof of this, check out Exile 2, where Aarth-Tss was walking around with an [i]Iron[i] Halberd she picked up as random loot, and carried that all the way through to killing Garzahd - the only upgrade was putting Flametongue on it at the upgrade shop east of Erika's Tower.
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May 26, 2016 16:14
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It's really unclear to me how much of a difference the extra +1 on steel vs. iron (or the +2 for magic vs. steel) actually makes. It's theoretically +5% to-hit and +1 damage, but in practice your blessed fighters will almost never miss anyway, and an extra point of damage is a drop in the bucket. Which is why I usually went for the flaming upgrade, which doesn't touch the numeric bonus, but adds nontrivial extra fire damage on each hit.
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May 26, 2016 17:00
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:It's really unclear to me how much of a difference the extra +1 on steel vs. iron (or the +2 for magic vs. steel) actually makes. It's theoretically +5% to-hit and +1 damage, but in practice your blessed fighters will almost never miss anyway, and an extra point of damage is a drop in the bucket. That's also why +1 is usually the first, and cheapest upgrade to get. It effectively boosts the quality of your weapons by one degree. And sometimes, people may want to challenge themselves, and not use Bless/Priest Spells. Why? I dunno. 
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May 26, 2016 17:06
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Cerebral Bore posted:This is pretty ridiculous, tbh. I can personally think of several professions that should ideally not exist at all in my opinion, but that doesn't mean that I'm busy stockpiling thumbscrews for all them payday lenders. There's really nothing in-game to indicate that the Anama are planning something sinister. Check update 15 - seems like they're already hassling the Mage in Shayder. And really, in general, how often do firm and inflexible beliefs stay honorable forever, without getting or abused? Maybe Ahonar truly is honorable and won't hassle mages beyond endless comments to those who pass through Shayder. Does his successor have the same respect and forbearance? Have you played Avernum 5 btw? The Anama show up again... MagusofStars fucked around with this message at 00:15 on May 27, 2016 |
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May 26, 2016 17:48
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This one is almost agreeable without logic loops!
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May 27, 2016 00:07
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This is actually pretty much impossible to argue. The only problem is the same issue that limits efforts to remove firearms and WMD's in the real world: If you disarm and the other side doesn't, you're hosed because they'll just slaughter and enslave you. If Exile hadn't used mages, the Empire would have kept using magic and just flattened them.
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May 27, 2016 00:20
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Yeah, this is a problem of escalation. The only time in history that bringing a bigger weapon to the fight didn't result in more death was with nuclear weapons, which are even more destructive than Quickfire (Quickfire might be analogous to firebombing, maybe). It's not that we want to kill our enemies with unprecedented scale -- it's just that if we don't, then they'll kill more of our guys. This is also why we use drone strikes against terrorists instead of sending in ground troops, despite the increased rate of civilian deaths: we value our allies' lives more highly than those of our enemies.
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May 27, 2016 01:24
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Finally, something we as PCs can agree with. Pretty sure almost every game of this series I ever played has hinged on starting with AoE mage spells and going up from there.
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May 27, 2016 02:21
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There's also the issue of what happens when you bring deterrence into the equation: simply having tons of destructive potential can save lives by preventing conflict because no one wants the consequences that such a conflict would bring. Alas, conflict is inevitable so yeah, in the vacuum that this is presented in it's hard not to agree. (Although magic can also cancel other magic out via protective spells.)
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May 27, 2016 03:02
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EponymousMrYar posted:There's also the issue of what happens when you bring deterrence into the equation: simply having tons of destructive potential can save lives by preventing conflict because no one wants the consequences that such a conflict would bring. As I noted, the only time in history that deterrence has really had a provable effect is with nuclear weapons. Everything else falls under the bucket of "we have reserves" or "we'll just wage asymmetrical warfare".
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May 27, 2016 03:20
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EponymousMrYar posted:There's also the issue of what happens when you bring deterrence into the equation: simply having tons of destructive potential can save lives by preventing conflict because no one wants the consequences that such a conflict would bring. - a man as equally wrong as you
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May 27, 2016 11:57
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Deceitful Penguin posted:"My dynamite will sooner lead to peace than a thousand world conventions. As soon as men will find that in one instant, whole armies can be utterly destroyed, they surely will abide by golden peace." I always loved the sad optimism of that quote when you unlock dynamite in Civ 5.
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May 27, 2016 13:44
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"What a thousand swords could not do, magic brought about": is that really true though? Alchemy can be used to poison water sources and set fires, and soldiers hardly need magic to butcher civilians: yes, it takes longer, but isn't the end result the same? And what about the negative aspect of that statement: how does one fight demons without enchantments and exorcism spells, except by throwing masses of soldiers against them? To use the dynamite example, do you know what the top ten bloodiest wars are? World War 2 is at the top, but the Mongol conquests, Three Kingdoms War, Qin conquest of China, Taiping Rebellion, and Lushan Rebellion all follow before World War 1 appears. Dynamite may not have prevented conflict, but the wars preceding its invention made up for their lack of "bang" by being long, bloody affairs. The overall point is that banning magic is a lot like banning dynamite: the killing might be slower, but it still persists, which means that only the benefits of dynamite are actually lost, for all practical purposes.
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May 27, 2016 21:09
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:As I noted, the only time in history that deterrence has really had a provable effect is with nuclear weapons. Everything else falls under the bucket of "we have reserves" or "we'll just wage asymmetrical warfare". Emphasis on the 'can.' There are certainly spells that duplicate nuclear explosions out there, though the only one that comes close in this game is Quickfire.
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May 28, 2016 06:44
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Update 017 – Kuper and Kneece Another short update. I might have been able to incorporate the next town into it, but I wasn't prepared for it. Better two shorter updates than one bulging-at-the-seams-one.  “Are we going for another boat ride?” “Yes, but we have to go through town first.” “I wonder what it will take to get a skiff of our own. Nothing deep water, but being able to sail around on our own would be nice.” “I agree. That should be looked into.” “I don't know... I'm still sick from the last one....”  “Alright, everyone split up. Bronwyn, I'm tasking you with making arrangements to get to Kneece. Everyone else, meet up with her in an hour, either at the docks, or at what passses for an Inn around here.” “Understood.” “Oh boy. Hello there, gentlemen.” You meet an Empire Soldier. He has a nasty scar running down the side of his face, which he fingers as he watches you. "I'm Captain Zog." His voice drips with contempt. “My name's” "Oh, don't act so clever!" he spits. "You think you're so smart, wandering around like that! Well, everyone knows about you!" “Look, I don't know what you know” "Everyone acts how it's so great you're around. You guys flouted the Empire, and we can too! Well, they don't know! They didn't get wounded in that pit!" He points to his scar. “I agree, that's a nasty scar, but” He voice becomes a hiss. "I lost friends to all of you. One of your spells scarred me for life. There'll never be peace between the Empire and Exile. As long as I'm around, there'll always be a little bit of war." “You're not the only one who feels that way, Zog. Lucky for the rest of us, you don't have the power to enact your desires.” Captain Zog is the NPC on the right. The one on the left is bounded into a 2x2 box in which he is the upper-right at the moment. The box is fixed to the lower-left corner of the map. An Empire soldier is here. He regards you with naked, barely controlled loathing. "I am Bagzath, worms." “And you're the calm one?” He seems barely able to restrain himself. "I found a way down there. I swore to slay Exiles wherever I can. Back away, or I will destroy you." He fingers the pommel of his sword, hoping you'll give him an excuse to attack. Bagzath here is the first NPC we've encountered in this game whose hostility meter can flip. Right now he's a friendly NPC, but if we ask him about Exiles, attack or destroy, he says this: And turns hostile. He is also no longer bounded to this corner of the map.  Because Zog was right there, and he stayed friendly, he's now attacking Bagzath. And while it would be fun to watch this play out between two perfectly equal NPCs, I just reload the game to reset the town. “Damned orchard. Where are the docks?”  “Ah, here they are.” A stocky woman stands my the docks, looking you over. She seems pleases to have potential customers. “Good day. Name's Bronwyn.” "I am Olga." “I saw your sign.” "I run the ferry over to Kneece. The tickets are only 30 gold. Expensive, I know. But the journey is tricky." “What's wrong with the journey? Roaches don't swim.” "Kneece is an old ruined town, surrounded by jagged rocks. I don't know if anyone lives there or what. All I know is that people pay enough to go over that just selling a few rides there makes some good money!" “Here's your gold. I've got five more people showing up in an hour or less.” “Thank you. When you're ready, just head out to the middle dock. That's my boat.”* * *   “More people sleeping away from homes.”  * * *  “And another completely unwelcoming inn. I'm beginning to get a taste for some of these surface drinks.”* * *  “Dress straight. Hair semi-clean and not in the way. Let's do this.” You meet a priestess of the Anama Church. She seems quite friendly, perfectly willing to take a break from her work to speak with you. "I am Mother Melamed. How may I help you?" “Oh, I'm Delilah. I'm on the pilgrimage. Do you do much here?” She smiles. "Oh, I just sort of guide things here. We haven't had as much trouble from the roaches as other towns, so we just try to keep things safe and simple." “I haven't seen many of them, though I just came from Fenris Port. Is that normal?” "I'm not sure why we've been hit with so many fewer roaches." She smiles, dimples showing. "Just blessed, I guess." “Then you must have plenty of time to help guide the people of this town!” She pats the altar. "It's not difficult to figure out the path to take, with the Anama faith to help light the way." “Tell me more about the Anama, please.” "Yes, this town, like most towns on this island, is shepherded by an Anama priest. It's a beautiful religion. Would you like to hear some of my interpretations of its philosophy?" “Please!” “I have to agree. When one looks at the works of magic against the works of the priestly, you can see that they are more aggressive, more combative. Yes, there are magics to harm available to us, but we also temper it with healing and strengthening of ourselves. I dare say that we are better known for our mercy than our cruelty.” Further checking indicates that I did not miss out in Hectar, the Anama Question. I only need one more, from the next proper town, in order to advance to the next step of the sidequest.* * *  “Is this everyone?” “Yes.” “And what are you?” “Sass! I'm Slithzerikai!” “Huge lizards. I've never heard of you but... I know that Kneece has been infested with the things, from previous groups going there. I shouldn't be surprised.” “Why are other people going there?” “Why, to salvage of course! Before the town was abandoned, it was a Mage Town!” “On Bigail?” “In the past, yes. But not anymore.”  “Welcome to Kneece.” “What really happened here?” “I don't know. But this used to be an inn of some sort.” “The nice lady mentioned lizards. Where are they?” “There!” I avoided fighting these back in the Goblin Warrens, and now you can see why. They can completely demolish an early party through triple attacks. Now, they're no biggie. “Wow, that was fun! Let's do it again!” “Let's not.” “Empty...” “This building – it's intact.” “Perhaps we can work our way around and find an entrance?” “As long as we keep the Lizards away from us.” “Man, this shelf has been shredded by the lizards. Enough that someone's lost coinage is now available!” “Old forge, adjacent to what looks like a temple by the tile on the floor.” “Hey, there's a really big lizard in here!” “What? How big?” This guy is practically a boss fight for us – Art is Level 12 or 13 at this point, and this thing is basically a toned down DRAGON. Check out that damage! I think a creature's Skill stat acts as Intelligence when applied to spells, so this Drake is casting as though it had 18 Int. Remember, our stats can only go to 20. “What are these things?” “Rogue Unicorns.” “Wasn't there that man in Krizsan who wanted their horns for proof they have been killed?” “She's right. We should look into that!” “How about killing the Drake first?” “Already done!” “The creature was starting to build a horde here. I suggest we rest up, and look through these things for anything of worth.” “A half-dozen of these.” “This weighs far more than it should.” “Finally! Hey, Delilah, you can ditch the bow you've been using. Here's a real weapon!” Once her Archery Skill goes up past THREE that is. “We should keep this one. Never know when someone might need it.” “No sign of an entrance on this side.” “Salamander!” Less powerful than the Drake we just killed. But still strong. “I hear more lizards to the south.” “I wonder where McEnroe went to? He obviously wasn't concerned about the Anama, what with this as his door plaque.” I look in this room. I look at my HP/SP. I close the door. “Let's camp outside of town for a moment, to rest up.” “Hey! There's Kuper!” “Very close by. I wonder what happened here?” “Aside from the giant lizards?” “That should be obvious, yes.” “Ah, here's the entrance. Very welcoming.” “This is welcoming?” “I stand by my statement.” “This is a passable barrier. I suppose it keeps the lizards out.” Ah, the joys of taking damage. I miss Dispel Barrier. “That looks like a house!” “Sure, just past this completely, not ominous at all portcullis.” “It has to be safe!” “WAIT!” “You!” “I think that had the sense of an infection detector, in case the persons passing through were sick.” “Makes sense.”  “Well, an invitation is an invitation.”  “Hello?”  “Up here.” “Hello.” A withered old man watches you serenely. He sits with a pair of wands nearby, in case you cause trouble. You can even see the wands on the table! “Sorry for the obvious, but we have to check – you are?” He scratches his nose thoughtfully. "I am Purgatos. I live in seclusion." “So I see. Two layers of defenses around your home makes for a certain degree of seclusion.” “It will not be enough in the long run, I am afraid. I am avoiding the tentacles of the Empire." “Did you do something wrong? To get the Empire after you?” “No, not in such a manner as yourselves. The Empire's control is not something I can adjust to. Exile is too cold for me. This island will do, until the inevitable occurs." “Hey! Exile isn't that cold! We have magma veins. And fire.” "One is cruel, the other damp. Neither are good choices." “What do you mean by the inevitable?” "The Empire will come here someday, and suffocate all free thought." He sighs. "But I know that hearing the complaints of an old man is not the reason you journeyed here." “I was taught to listen to my elders! They have interesting things to say.” “And yet, we did journey here.” "News of you precedes you everywhere you go. I can tell you about Kneece, or the Anama, if you wish. But I suspect you are most interested in the problem of the cockroaches." “Let's leave business until last. What the hell happened to Kneece?” "This city was a magical center before the Anama came to Bigail, and suddenly our supply shipments started 'disappearing'. The mages abandoned this place, and a bunch of giant lizards moves in. I am the only person left here. The solitude suits me." “Hold on, can you prove that the Anama 'misplaced' the shipments?” “Not officially, no. The ruination of Kneece was their fault. I despise them. Avoid them it at all possible. By the way, they have a huge treasure in their temple somewhere. I hope someone steals it." “Steal a treasure? That would be... rude!” He grins wickedly. "You didn't hear that from me." “I guess that means we're just left with the cockroaches.” "I do a bit of scrying and ethereal wandering. I know how the monsters are created. There's a small difficulty though." “You know where the monsters come from?” "The cockroaches are being made in a huge underground factory, which creates filth for them to grown in and eat before they go out to cause havoc. The Filth Factory is hidden somewhere on the Isle of Bigail. Therein lies the main difficulty." “Of course there's going to be a difficult part.” "Recently, someone came to me. Don't ask for more details. I choose not to give them. This being told me that when you came, you should be helped. I have developed a device which I believe will destroy the factory. However, this would only be useful if the place was found. If you found it, I would make the device a gift to you." “I want to say it's in the valley north of Shayder, and west of Hectar, but we couldn't find it there.” “When you have your evidence, come to me. Until then, keep searching.” “Ohh! Nice books!” “My books.” “Sorry.” “Before we head back to the mainland, I want to scout around for a bit. See if there is anything out of place or the like that could be attributed to having an island set aside for magical research.” “You think we'll find anything?” “No, but it's worth a look.” Something to note about Valorim – the forests here are MASSIVE. It doesn't really come across in these screenshots because I haven't extracted them into full maps yet. But we're talking about continent spanning! Bigail is our first real taste of them, and as we proceed north, it'll just get thicker.[/i] “This is so... I don't know the word...” “Green?” “Brown below the canopy.” “Primeval?” “Really? A Forest Primeval would not be this easy to traverse!”  “You're right. There is something here, but I can't put my paw on it...” “Just walk around with your claws out and you'll find it eventually! Like this!” “...”   “Nice view though.” “Very nice.” There's an optional dungeon here in that 'empty' tile. However, we haven't been told about it, so it's not there yet. And some checking about what's supposed to be in there indicate I don't want to be here for a while yet.  “Now we wait.” “You want to come back again, it'll be 30 gold again.” “I think we can afford it.” “Time to circle west now, there's the town of Bavner we still have to investigate.” “That's a good idea.”* * *  “What is that?” “What?” “Did any of you hear that?” “No.” “Not me either. Unless you count wind and trees.” “I can hear it... this way.” “What's the procedure for when the party leader starts hallucinating?” “Or goes senile?” “I am far older than her, and I've still got all my faculties!” “This way.” “Where are we going?” “Higher.” “That doesn't answer a thing! And what is it that you're hearing?” “I... I can't describe it.”  “I am officially worried.” “As are the rest of us. Be ready for anything!” “There! Ahead!” “This doesn't look evil.” “Still, could be a trap.” “No, it's not a threat. At all.” “ART!”  “See!” “Please, don't scare us like that! What if something had gone wrong and it summoned demons?” “Then we would have killed them all!” “Yeah, only in the stories, kiddo.” “Um... where did the stones go?”  “They weren't needed any more, so they left.” There are six stone circles like this in Valorim, though we can only reach five before the endgame. They have escalating rewards for locating them, and I will be certain to do them all. The next one will be hit up on the way back to Fort Emergence after we've dealt with the Filth Factory.  “Webwood? How is this the first I've heard of that town?” “It may be too new for my map.” “NEW PLACES!”
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May 28, 2016 07:09
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Few notes on the circles: 1.) The first five can be visited in any order. There's actually one in Krizsan province that we missed - if you visit that one first, you'll get Restore Mind there and this circle will give you the second reward. 2.) The rewards are very good but are available other ways (Restore Mind could be bought in Ghikra, for example). No, there is no alternate reward - if you already bought the spell, oh well. 3.) No real point in using Destroy. Either pray or don't, but there isn't a reward for destroying them IIRC.
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May 28, 2016 12:39
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Webwood? Suddenly I am filled with trepidation...
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May 28, 2016 12:45
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Sass is quickly becoming my favorite character in this one. He's just so much like a puppy. A six foot tall, intelligent, scaly puppy.
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May 28, 2016 14:47
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Note on the stone circles; are you (or rather, is Art) really okay with praying at all of them? 4 out of 6 of the boons are gotten elsewhere (although some are difficult to get), and it seems like a copout. Besides, the fact that Art found them by hearing voices in her head? That's a problem waiting to happen. As a wise character from a series of children's novels once said, "Never trust anything if you can't see where it keeps its brain." But of course, you probably know what happens. And how praying at 4 or more makes the endgame harder. But we're about to enter Webwood? Oh God... I sense a feeling of dread coming up... I hate spiders.  "Hello!"
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May 28, 2016 17:10
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So, since we haven't seen anything to do with the filth factory yet, any takers on whether or not Erica's mark shows up here, too?
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May 29, 2016 14:06
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While I finally get this project back in gear after some personal ups and downs in my life, here's the final Anama question: "The Anama teaches self-reliance above all things. We should rely on our own strength, not the energy from realms we do not understand, and from the summoning of bizarre creatures." 
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Jun 7, 2016 06:26
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Again with the technically correct. Sure, they could live, work, and be happy without magic... but we could do the same without electricity. That doesn't mean it's not incredibly useful.
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Jun 7, 2016 06:38
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As is common, this is a statement which is simultaneously true and irrelevant. There are very, very few things in life that you couldn't say "(Blank) is not necessary to live life. One can work, live, and be happy without (Blank)". Heck, you could even fill in the blank with things which are widely considered positive to have present in your life, such as "Love", "Family", "being healthy", and so on. All because you *can* adjust and live life without these things doesn't mean we should abolish them.
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Jun 7, 2016 07:48
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To be completely fair, I'd agree that magic summoning seems to be completely moronic. Have we seen anyone use summoning for good? Summoning seems like it should be banned due to being wildly dangerous.
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Jun 7, 2016 07:57
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:To be completely fair, I'd agree that magic summoning seems to be completely moronic. Have we seen anyone use summoning for good? Summoning seems like it should be banned due to being wildly dangerous. To the extent that summoning magic and teleportation magic seem to be broadly similar, Rentar-Ihrno teleports in to help you at some point in Exile 2, doesn't she? And summoning magic can occasionally be useful in the Exile series. It's just usually not worth bothering with. The big problem is that the word "summoning" is almost always followed by "demons". And demons are bad news.
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Jun 7, 2016 14:52
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I certainly wouldn't consider magical summoning somehow less ethical than other forms of wizardly magic simply because, in this game, it's shite.
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Jun 7, 2016 14:55
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Well, it's true that people can live without magic in ordinary circumstances...but there's the rub: ordinary. The people of Exile most certainly *couldn't* live without magic, since they needed it to make a food source, and it's probably safe to assume that there are going to be future hazardous circumstances where magic might be necessary in a similar way: a demonic invasion, a giant meteor/giant volcano that partially blocks out the sun, desertification, sudden years of drought that could forcibly displace entire regions of people, an ice age... And that's the problem: if the Anima had their own solutions to these potential complications, their point would stand; but it seems safe to say that if the Anima can't handle their current major regional catastrophe, they probably couldn't handle multiple ones of similar scale on an Empire wide level. The Empire, in the mean time, seems to have done just that in the past, like when they got rid of all the monsters (especially the dragons): the Anima still benefited from that, even if they don't use magic themselves, so how they would fare dealing with similar circumstances themselves is an open question.
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Jun 7, 2016 17:29
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berryjon posted:While I finally get this project back in gear after some personal ups and downs in my life, here's the final Anama question: No worries, and I hope things are OK now. I have a problem with the bolded part. Magic (both mage and priest) seems to mostly be an art, but as far as I remember the games only (some) mages are trying to systematically study magic, to make it a science. The Anama merely think they know how their magic works. Orders of faith in these games seem to either venerate some abstract concept or worship ancestors or demons. The demons I could see being able to lend power to a priest, but the rest not so much. So my guess is that priest and mage magic are not really fundamentally separate stuff. Just differences of approach to the same thing.
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Jun 7, 2016 19:27
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On the other hand, would the people of Exile be in Exile if magic had not been used to make it habitable enough to be a hellhole of a prison? That's not really a plus for magic.
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Jun 7, 2016 22:08
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Rockopolis posted:On the other hand, would the people of Exile be in Exile if magic had not been used to make it habitable enough to be a hellhole of a prison? That's not really a plus for magic. The narrative propagated by Erika is that the original exiles were just tossed in there and it was only through her considerable magical prowess that they were able to get food, light, and other really basic necessities to ensure survival. Exile 2 casts doubt on this story, as the Vahnatai predate the formation of Exile and are responsible for at least some magical advances (such as glowing moss and edible, farmable fungi) in terms of making survival possible. In any case, though, the Empire clearly didn't care about the fates of those initial exiles at the very least. Food issues notwithstanding, the caves at that time were playing host to Grah-Hoth in his full power, as well as a sizable colony of sliths, giants, aranea, and at least one hostile dragon. The Empire sent an incredibly well-equipped expedition down there before they started using the caves as a penal colony, and literally all of them died. They did not expect the initial exiles to survive.
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Jun 7, 2016 22:22
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On the third hand the Empire would not have the option of setting up a penal conony in a (presumed) underground hellscape if they didn't have access to magic teleportation, so we're kinda back at magic fixing stuff that magic caused in the first place.
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Jun 7, 2016 22:30
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:The narrative propagated by Erika is that the original exiles were just tossed in there and it was only through her considerable magical prowess that they were able to get food, light, and other really basic necessities to ensure survival. Exile 2 casts doubt on this story, as the Vahnatai predate the formation of Exile and are responsible for at least some magical advances (such as glowing moss and edible, farmable fungi) in terms of making survival possible. I also recall something about the original exiles also being buried up till their eyes in demons at the beginning and that it was only the actions of a bunch of wizards and magic swords did they clear out all the demons. Then again, how were the sliths living in a demon infested food starved pitch black hellscape before the original exiles showed up?
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Jun 7, 2016 22:35
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Yeah, the Exile origin story, if you will, is actually kinda sketchy. Presumably the exile of Erika & co and the defeat of Grah-Hoth would have to happen before any serious large-scale political organization could take place, and given that all the principal players in these events are still alive at the time of Exile 1, it couldn't have been that many decades before the start of the game even if we assume that magical longevity is a thing. This kinda seems like too short of a time to get all the stuff we see in Exile 1 up and running in such a dangerous environment, even allowing for magic doing the heavy lifting.
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Jun 7, 2016 22:45
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ldragon posted:Then again, how were the sliths living in a demon infested food starved pitch black hellscape before the original exiles showed up? Sss-Thsss explicitly allied himself with Grah-Hoth, at least once the latter was imprisoned. It's not clear what their relationship was beforehand. I'd kind of like to see a "Founding of Exile" 4x game, where you start out with a small group of legendary heroes in a pitch-black cave, with no resources, no information, and periodic new arrivals (of various random backgrounds), and you have to explore, fight off hostile natives, create defended outposts, and basically establish civilization where there is none. There's no way Jeff Vogel would work on such a project, though; that man sticks to what he knows works (and I can't really blame him for it).
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Jun 7, 2016 22:55
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:I'd kind of like to see a "Founding of Exile" 4x game, where you start out with a small group of legendary heroes in a pitch-black cave, with no resources, no information, and periodic new arrivals (of various random backgrounds), and you have to explore, fight off hostile natives, create defended outposts, and basically establish civilization where there is none.
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Jun 7, 2016 23:37
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I was imagining something more like an Exile-themed Endless Legend, really.
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Jun 8, 2016 00:10
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That would also work.
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Jun 8, 2016 00:33
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:I was imagining something more like an Exile-themed Endless Legend, really.  Looks much more like DF to me. 
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Jun 8, 2016 00:40
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