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Shine posted:Tougher AI is fine, but if ships take X times longer to kill and they don't increase the rewards X-fold, then they're effectively increasing the grind, which is stupid. Yeah, they should definitely increase payouts. But knowing frontier, it won't happen until a couple months after 2.1 goes live, after enough people complain (that is, if they don't complain that payouts are too high  )
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May 24, 2016 21:40
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I'm willing to wait and see how (probably hosed) the new mission system is before complaining about RES farming nerfs. Just flying around killing infinitely respawning pirates was always kind of dumb, I'd rather be doing interesting poo poo which involves blowing up bad guys as a side perk.
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May 24, 2016 21:41
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RabidWeasel posted:Just flying around killing infinitely respawning pirates was always kind of dumb.  It's fun as hell though.
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May 24, 2016 21:42
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Rah! posted:Killing the ability to make a good amount of CR/hr sucks a lot, but I am kind of excited about tougher AI. It might feel like a real fight more often, instead of shootings When the beta first launched, "tougher AI" meant ships turning tail and running away at top speed as soon as their shields dropped, making it incredibly difficult to get kills I hear they've toned that down but I still wouldn't get your hopes up too high
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May 24, 2016 21:52
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You mean how they turned tail and ran at faster than an iggle with the upgraded engines and minimum weight could go?
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May 24, 2016 22:34
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I'm gonna miss my 800 speed iggle in the Beta, and I'm dreading how much sheer grind I'll have to endure to remake it on the live servers  If Engineers turns into a giant grindfest and FDev don't back down on it, I think I'll be about done with the game. Their gameplay designers are just garbage, they have no idea what makes a game like Elite fun to play.
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May 24, 2016 23:27
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nightwisher posted:Their gameplay designers are just garbage, they have no idea what makes a game like Elite fun to play. It's frustrating because they've laid down the bones of an amazing and beautiful game, they have plenty of good ideas, and there is fun to be had. But then they keep adding half-assed poo poo, keep "balancing" fun or useful things so that they're not fun or useful anymore, and they make you grind a ridiculous amount in order to progress to higher ranks or larger ships. I love the game, but a large part of that is because i have a massive space boner. I'm sure the game will stay fun but flawed, but i hope the fun factor increases. And i hope that includes ditching their loyalty to the soulless grind. Also, maybe all the money they've made means they can hire enough people to get things like atmospheric landings, unique areas (a big city on the moon, or a derelict asteroid base or whatever), and FPS gameplay into the game sooner, rather than later.
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May 25, 2016 01:16
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Rah! posted:So how have they been hosed up?
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May 25, 2016 02:03
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Rah! posted:Yeah, they should definitely increase payouts. But knowing frontier, it won't happen until a couple months after 2.1 goes live, after enough people complain (that is, if they don't complain that payouts are too high I don't really care about monetary payouts anymore, but if it's going to gently caress up the combat rank grind even more than it already is, that's going to suck. I'm currently at 73% dangerous and the fact that I can spend two hours in a CZ and only move that bar 4% is pretty silly.
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May 25, 2016 06:15
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RabidWeasel posted:I'm willing to wait and see how (probably hosed) the new mission system is before complaining about RES farming nerfs. Just flying around killing infinitely respawning pirates was always kind of dumb, I'd rather be doing interesting poo poo which involves blowing up bad guys as a side perk. Which is why I'm hoping the RNJesus will be less of a liability on the Bboard hoping for that kind of thing. Instead of it being the rare exception of "Please go kill this Federal Corvette, that is winged up with an FDL and sidewinder." between a dozen illegal murders (with or without identical text to missions with wanted targets), and cop killing missions.
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May 25, 2016 06:19
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Rah! posted:It's frustrating because they've laid down the bones of an amazing and beautiful game, they have plenty of good ideas, and there is fun to be had. But then they keep adding half-assed poo poo, keep "balancing" fun or useful things so that they're not fun or useful anymore, and they make you grind a ridiculous amount in order to progress to higher ranks or larger ships. I love the game, but a large part of that is because i have a massive space boner. I'm sure the game will stay fun but flawed, but i hope the fun factor increases. And i hope that includes ditching their loyalty to the soulless grind. Also, maybe all the money they've made means they can hire enough people to get things like atmospheric landings, unique areas (a big city on the moon, or a derelict asteroid base or whatever), and FPS gameplay into the game sooner, rather than later. This. All of it. They've got the foundation for a palace, and it looks like they're trying to build a shack on it. If they ease off on the grind a bit and focus more on adding more varied and complex gameplay loops, they have a good chance of hitching onto the clique-ey EvE-Style sandbox crew, which are diehard spergs of the most dedicated kind (god knows I pay my penance and play eve for a few months every couple years to scratch that 'living world' itch) and open up more options for interesting gameplay over long gameplay.
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May 25, 2016 06:46
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I don't know, all you do to unlock engineer components and reputation is basically the standard gameplay loop. It just so happens that that loop is extremely shallow and grindy. What I'm saying is that the problem is with the core missions and gameplay, not the fact that you might need to roll a few times for your gun...
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May 25, 2016 07:12
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Main Paineframe posted:When the beta first launched, "tougher AI" meant ships turning tail and running away at top speed as soon as their shields dropped, making it incredibly difficult to get kills yeah, I heard that too. But i also heard that the AI is better in general, not including the "run away" thing that they added and then toned-down.
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May 25, 2016 07:15
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The devs could probably take some hints from this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dpl2ZwT4rq0
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May 25, 2016 14:27
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I really want to care about PowerPlay stuff but it all seems so pointless if I am fighting against the invisible horde of solo and private group players.
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May 25, 2016 23:09
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Knifegrab posted:I really want to care about PowerPlay stuff but it all seems so pointless if I am fighting against the invisible horde of solo and private group players. i would do it if it didn't take four weeks to get the special modules, while you have to deal with annoying interdictions the entire time.
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May 26, 2016 01:26
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Knifegrab posted:I really want to care about PowerPlay stuff but it all seems so pointless if I am fighting against the invisible horde of solo and private group players.  are you going to meltdown over People Playing The Game Wrong again? E:D still isn't a PvP-focused game Nostalgia4Infinity fucked around with this message at 01:32 on May 26, 2016 |
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May 26, 2016 01:30
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For that kind of nonsense, I can go to the official forums (and learn about how paranoid idiots can be).
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May 26, 2016 01:31
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Colonial Air Force posted:For that kind of nonsense, I can go to the official forums (and learn about how paranoid idiots can be). i always new braben was a lizard man illuminati agent
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May 26, 2016 01:38
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Knifegrab posted:I really want to care about PowerPlay stuff but it all seems so pointless if I am fighting against the invisible horde of solo and private group players. You'd have an invisible horde fighting alongside you as well. It's not like the entire Solo playerbase is colluding against your particular interests.
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May 26, 2016 02:52
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Shine posted:You'd have an invisible horde fighting alongside you as well. It's not like the entire Solo playerbase is colluding against your particular interests. Just feels like a weird choice, I realize it's instances so there would always be people I wouldn't see but it's just how I feel about it. Obviously having two separate shards isn't feasible, but for some reason it would make me actually care knowing that anyone working against me is someone I could possibly actually run into. Ultimately my biggest gripe is how grinding this game has become. Like it penalizes me for flying in a wing wtf. Just wanna fly with wing bros.
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May 26, 2016 03:24
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Knifegrab posted:Like it penalizes me for flying in a wing wtf. This poo poo boggles my drat mind every time I remember it
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May 26, 2016 03:42
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:
Which part of PvP has to do with decaying reputations making your grind moot if you don't clock in  I do at least, grasp that even playing semi regularly let's people already reasonably kitted out keep the item unlock ratings in their group of choice going. So it's only really an issue for people who play in binges, or spend most of their time away from their chosen power's space. But there's enough grind in the game as it is without reducing you back to zero and do it all over again if you had the nerve to step off the treadmill. Something something entitled who cares  But I'd probably have hopped onto the powerplay train by now if you at least could keep a permanent status of unlocking the custom toys, even without getting to keep the unimpressive weekly payouts below Dayjob Elite Pilot tier.
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May 26, 2016 04:28
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Its just like I understand there being a progression, I like that, but it is one of the most grindy games ever when it should be a game about flying around in space making some creds so I can buy a new ship. Not grinding lovely missions for weeks to afford a moderate upgrade.
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May 26, 2016 04:32
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All I want is less grind. Let me do something other than maximize cr/hour, ffs. I want to love this game, but I log in and look at the crazy grind required to do just about anything and then I log back out.
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May 26, 2016 05:21
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Grab a DBS, put on a rift (if you have one) and go shoot mans at a RES or NAV beacon? Or go mining? Hell, a dose of space madness wouldn't go amiss either... Stop min/maxing all the things and try to enjoy the game instead, is what I'm getting at.
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May 26, 2016 06:49
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Wibla posted:Stop min/maxing all the things and try to enjoy the game instead, is what I'm getting at. Well that will certainly be an easier option if they actually go through with no longer telling you "Sorry, you need to be the Trader equivalent of Dangerous to ship these five tons of washing machines, regardless of the payouts" anymore. Unironically looking forward to generic Bboard missions not telling me to go gently caress myself just looking at them because I'm only Broker/Expert. Instead of Tycoon/Deadly. Section Z fucked around with this message at 07:22 on May 26, 2016 |
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May 26, 2016 07:13
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Wibla posted:Grab a DBS, put on a rift (if you have one) and go shoot mans at a RES or NAV beacon? This isn't about "min-maxing" the game as much as "wanting to have fun with the flawed content they keep adding, instead of sandboxing and developing headcanon until the end of time."
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May 26, 2016 08:16
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I can have fun farting about in an iCourier doing random poo poo. Fun is what you make it. 
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May 26, 2016 11:09
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DancingShade posted:I can have fun farting about in an iCourier doing random poo poo. Farting around in an iCourier is one of the greatest joys there is.
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May 26, 2016 11:14
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But don't you have to grind rep to get the iCourier? I mean I've been having a ton of fun on my Vulture and AspE, and so far I like the game. But I definitely see the grind that exists if I want to continue to progress.
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May 26, 2016 12:17
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I didn't realise, apparently you can get a cutter to go 400m/s? And give it over 7000 shield
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May 26, 2016 12:20
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Colonial Air Force posted:But don't you have to grind rep to get the iCourier? iCourier only needs rank 3 (Master) which is trivial to get to. Higher ranks are the grind.
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May 26, 2016 12:34
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Shine posted:This isn't about "min-maxing" the game as much as "wanting to have fun with the flawed content they keep adding, instead of sandboxing and developing headcanon until the end of time." With Engineers, what would've been cool would be a crafting system in the sense that pretty much all other games use it; player crafting, where you gather resources (already in the game) and use them to create items or improve your current items. That would've been awesome because it'd add some more meaning to mining, resource gathering and even trading. I don't get why they didn't do this.
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May 26, 2016 12:37
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Surprise Giraffe posted:I didn't realise, apparently you can get a cutter to go 400m/s? And give it over 7000 shield Also your big fancy shields can just be totally negated by some rear end in a top hat in an Eagle using shieldbuster torpedoes or mines (which directly damage the shield generator), or by someone using thermal shock weapons to cook you alive through your shields.
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May 26, 2016 12:58
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Those weapons sound like terrible ideas.  Well maybe the torpedoes are cool. 3 Action Economist fucked around with this message at 13:05 on May 26, 2016 |
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May 26, 2016 13:01
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Natsuumi posted:iCourier only needs rank 3 (Master) which is trivial to get to. Higher ranks are the grind. Yeah high everything is a grind. In my first 30 or so hours with the game I was absolutely engrossed, getting money, improving my ship, trading and doing missions to steadily improve faction and pilot rank Then suddenly I had enough money to buy every small ship on a whim, mission payouts remained at newbie level of 10k credits or so, getting another rank or enough money for a single upgrade or high end hull would take another 30hours of grinding without the added variety of buying a new part or ship because I already have everything maxed and several dozen millions away from the next meaningful upgrade Now I can't even find the will to log in 
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May 26, 2016 13:10
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TorakFade posted:Yeah high everything is a grind. In my first 30 or so hours with the game I was absolutely engrossed, getting money, improving my ship, trading and doing missions to steadily improve faction and pilot rank This is/was 100% me. My advice is that if it doesn't disappear with the patch (I saw somewhere, maybe here that they may still exist but changed to be less stackable?) do Robigo smuggling missions. I read this suggestion months ago when I tried to pop into the game and assumed it was another soulless grind. Now I'm sad I waited so long. I suppose it could become a grind like any other, but it at least feels more like that early game progress combined with something a bit more interesting and with a new challenge. Challenging the first time, at least. Robigo got me into the ~80-100m net worth range with only a few stacked runs, and that puts me solidly in the range to buy most ships and kits. Not the highest end stuff, but enough that it let me feel like I could explore the game's aspects beyond the grind again. Like I said though, might be completely terrible advice if they actually go away. I think what I miss is kind of the character or life that a game like this needs. It feels like it's still a 1984 game with fancier graphics. I go back to Freelancer that I dumped way too much time into as a teen: Trading was interesting because there was a character to the world. You picked up gold from a place where you could see giant mining ships crunching asteroids, delivered it to factories in distant zones. You knew which areas were dangerous and why- certain zones had groups of pirates or rebels that were particularly dangerous or prevalent. Border systems felt a little less active and more dangerous. Elite reduced all of that to turning away from the sun, waiting 10 seconds, then FSDing to a new, equally pointless star. I know there's technically the backbone of what I described in elite too, but it should be front and center. The FSD is a cool idea but I guess it also reduces the bubble to feeling incredibly small. Sorry, post got away from me. TLDR, space is boring.
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May 26, 2016 14:21
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Is there a trick to making Robigo fun? I tried it twice and the first time, my second jump had a cop interdict and scan me before I could boost away. Glad it happened fast instead of after most of the journey at least. Second time I made it all the way but only took one contract, and while my heart was pounding from the trip ultimately I feel the whole endeavor is more of a random-luck thing - invest an hour or whatever and hope you don't get interdicted. I guess some people log out when they get cops chasing, but that seems just as stupid as logging in and out to stack missions. I wish that mission stacking was not possible, and more than that I wish it was not necessary. So far the most fun I have had is doing highres sites in a high sec zone, hunting wanted dudes with the help of cops in my Diamondback scout. The sad thing is that this would be more fun if the whole rest of the "Game" was not there and it was just a menu - choose ship, choose loadout, choose hunting ground and go. I mean even the tutorial missions offer the same level of satisfying gameplay, just without the numbers to grind up. Kind of lame since the rest of the game holds so much promise.
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May 26, 2016 14:50
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Panch posted:I think what I miss is kind of the character or life that a game like this needs. It feels like it's still a 1984 game with fancier graphics. I go back to Freelancer that I dumped way too much time into as a teen: Trading was interesting because there was a character to the world. You picked up gold from a place where you could see giant mining ships crunching asteroids, delivered it to factories in distant zones. You knew which areas were dangerous and why- certain zones had groups of pirates or rebels that were particularly dangerous or prevalent. Border systems felt a little less active and more dangerous. Mostly just quoting this in case I ever get around to doing some big effortpost on reddit or the brown sea to try and get some dev answers on all this poo poo. Probably a pointless pursuit but hey.
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May 26, 2016 14:51
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