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ImpAtom posted:Are you just upset because a character you liked got killed by a character you disliked? "I finally managed to move beyond my issues and learn to live!" *Dies five seconds afterwards*
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May 26, 2016 17:51
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MonsieurChoc posted:It's explicitly true because she's loving dead. The fact that Newtype heard echoes of her thoughts or whatever for five seconds afterwards doesn't mean poo poo because she's loving dead. No, that's just dumb. A character's story isn't suddenly invalidated because they died. Death is an end to a story, not an erasure of one. MonsieurChoc posted:"I finally managed to move beyond my issues and learn to live!" So, yes. You're upset because a character didn't get a happy ending that you feel they deserved. That's fine. That doesn't make it wrong or thematically poor, especially in Gundam which is a story about the tragedy of war at its very basis. Is Gundam 0080 bad because Hamburger died a tragic and meaningless death in a fight that wasn't really necessary?
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May 26, 2016 17:56
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ImpAtom posted:No, that's just dumb. A character's story isn't suddenly invalidated because they died. Death is an end to a story, not an erasure of one. Look, you can keep coming up with bullshit reasons for why the female character getting killed so she can 'save' a male character isn't stupid, but we all know you're bullshitting. She's got the biggest character arc of the show up to that point, and it certainly wasn't one where getting randomly killed by a dude was the point. Learning to live and then getting killed by a random shot from Riddhe five second afterwards is sacrificing her character arc. It is making all that time wasted. It's a lovely end to the story. It could work if Unicorn was a cynical tragicomedy where the point was that everything you do is pointless and we're all gonna die having changed jackshit, but that's pretty explicitly not the case.
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May 26, 2016 18:01
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ImpAtom posted:So, yes. You're upset because a character didn't get a happy ending that you feel they deserved. That's fine. That doesn't make it wrong or thematically poor, especially in Gundam which is a story about the tragedy of war at its very basis. Terrible comparison. Not even in the same ballpark. 0080 was very much about the tragedy of war, and how it destroys the lives of the people it touches. the fact that Bernie got killed pointlessly is the entire point. Also, his character arc wasn't about learning to live again as a person after being an object for years. This is not the loving case with Unicorn. Edit: You're working really hard to try and justify a women in refrigerator moment.
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May 26, 2016 18:06
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MonsieurChoc posted:Look, you can keep coming up with bullshit reasons for why the female character getting killed so she can 'save' a male character isn't stupid, but we all know you're bullshitting. No, I'm not. I've explained my point repeatedly. MonsieurChoc posted:Terrible comparison. Not even in the same ballpark. 0080 was very much about the tragedy of war, and how it destroys the lives of the people it touches. And so is Unicorn! Unicorn has multiple plots about that. Unicorn is entirely about the consequences and tragedy of war. It is a central fixture of the story. MonsieurChoc posted:Edit: You're working really hard to try and justify a women in refrigerator moment. Guess what? A scene can be both a women in the fridge moment and thematically relevant to the story. The fact that you keep trying to use this as a personal attack against me instead of actually addressing the points I brought up is really lovely. Women in the fridge is lovely because it is the killing of a woman to advance the plot of a dude. That doesn't mean it still isn't actually relevant to the story. It is lovely because it is done uncommonly to women, not because it makes no sense. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 18:12 on May 26, 2016 |
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May 26, 2016 18:10
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It always came off to me like Marida was killed off more because it's a thing that historically happens to cyber newtypes than anything about hating women or seeing them as disposable or w/e
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May 26, 2016 18:10
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MonsieurChoc posted:Look, you can keep coming up with bullshit reasons for why the female character getting killed so she can 'save' a male character isn't stupid, but we all know you're bullshitting. I guess you could argue that since her death had been set up as an inevitability, the manner of her death mattered more. When you're literally built from the ground up as a weapon, deliberately giving your life to save your enemy from himself is pretty much the hardest refutation of that fate possible. Still sucks in the broader context of Gundam's woman issues, and it's territory they already covered with her saving Alberto, but there's at least some thematic significance there. Thinking it over, I'm sort of seeing parallels with the 'Superman' moment in The Iron Giant, if that makes any sense. We can at least all agree that while it's not perfect by any means, Alia in GBF gets the best Cyber-Newtype plot arc so far, right?
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May 26, 2016 18:11
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Srice posted:It always came off to me like Marida was killed off more because it's a thing that historically happens to cyber newtypes than anything about hating women or seeing them as disposable or w/e You don't have to hate women to make a sexist product. Mindlessly recycling other people's sexist tropes because of genre/franchise tradition will get the job done just fine. I mean, poo poo, look at AGE. The creator of the Gundam franchise had some decidedly strange views on gender that he used its founding works as a mouthpiece for, and later works have made a bad habit of uncritically aping or exaggerating them. It's fair to complain about that.
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May 26, 2016 18:19
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Marida's plot in Gundam Unicorn is the following: She is a clone. A literal disposable soldier made to die in a fight she has no point of. Even once she is rescued from that fate she is turned into a different tool and still treated like an object, denied any part of her life. She has no control and no freedom. She only starts to get that with Zimmerman and even then it's a sad and tragic situation where she's still being used as a weapon by someone who she called Master but who neither of them quite feel that way. She has lived her entire life as a weapon (and being a clone knows her life isn't going to be very long.) This builds with her conversations with Banagher where she reveals that she desperately wants to be a person. The story takes a huge turn for the tragic when she's turned into Ple 12 and literally looses everything that makes her Marida. She's turned into a living weapon again and saved from that. Then she begins to really get a chance to live as a person, not as a weapon. Her plot is not about her getting a happy life in the woods until she dies. It is about her being recognized as a person. The reason this climaxes with Riddhe is because Riddhe is the exact person least likely to view her as a person. He hates Newtypes, he hates Zeon, he hates the relics of war, and she beat the living poo poo out of him as Ple 12. She is everything he hates and Riddhe seeks to destroy her. The final moments of her life are her both rejecting her role as a weapon, and embracing both her personhood and her Newtype heritage in a way that echoes 'true' Newtypes and not the sad cloned cyber-newtype weapon she was. Her victory is that she makes Riddhe recognize her as a person and feel the utter shame and horror over ending her life. It is about Riddhe's plot for certain but the ending of Marida's plot, and her death, is that she dies as Marida Cruz, a person, and not as Ple 12, a weapon. She does not get a happy ending where she lives out her remaining days in the woods. She gets a sad and tragic ending but it is sad and tragic because this girl who was born without even a name has become a true and real person and the echoes of her death change the world. It, unfortunately, lingers on the impact it had on men because Gundam ain't great about ladies, but it also emphasizes Marida's own goals and life and the impact she had on others. It also, unfortunately, follows the Unicorn trend of repeating Gundam beats and this includes the tragic death of a cyber newtype. It is thematically relevant in this case and makes sense for the story but it also is continuing a cycle, which is something Unicorn does throughout. Theoretically Unicorn is about breaking that cycle but even in being about that it maintains it.
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May 26, 2016 18:24
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I feel like fridging is a bad word in this scenario since Marida was a fully fleshed out character. Even though I'm not a fan of how it was handled, I definitely don't feel that her entire character existed for that moment
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May 26, 2016 18:24
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Srice posted:It always came off to me like Marida was killed off more because it's a thing that historically happens to cyber newtypes than anything about hating women or seeing them as disposable or w/e Which is really f ucking stupid for a story that's about the possibility of change against the inevitability of cyclical oppression. Which now that I think about it is really a huge problem for the story if it's trying to have its cake and eat it too.
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May 26, 2016 18:26
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ImpAtom posted:No, I'm not. I've explained my point repeatedly. Your point was that it's okay that she dies pointlessly to serve the character advancement of a dude because she did it as a person. That's a really stupid thing to say, especially because she really didn't die to advance the dude's character arc. It's pointless within the story itself, there to serve as cheap tragedy and nothing more. The story is something that was written deliberately. They spend multiple episodes advancing Marida's character arc about her learning not to be a living weapon and re-connecting with her adoptive father. And right after that emotional climax, she gets killed by Riddhe in a completely stupid manner, so that he can switch side and then do loving nothing. Oh, but it's okay, her five second long after-death apparition says she forgive him so it's wasn't pointless. It's not just that she dies that I hate, it's that she dies in such a pointless loving way. It's the sheer bad writing that's there just because it's a Gundam cliché they have to follow. I mean, look at the scene itself: They almost manage to convince Riddhe but then he bumps his head and shoots randomly and it just happens to vaporize her. And he feels bad about it so he switches side. That's a loving terrible scene. And it really didn't need to happen that way for the story to work. You're basically taking the writer's weak justification at face value and you really shouldn't.
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May 26, 2016 18:27
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muike posted:Which is really f ucking stupid for a story that's about the possibility of change against the inevitability of cyclical oppression. Which now that I think about it is really a huge problem for the story if it's trying to have its cake and eat it too. Banagher definitely thinks that's what the theme is, but given that we know the discovery of Laplace's Box changes nothing and the UC continues to be a giant meatgrinder anyway, I would argue that's the exact opposite of the show's theme. I still don't think Marida needed to die for that, though.
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May 26, 2016 18:30
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MonsieurChoc posted:Your point was that it's okay that she dies pointlessly to serve the character advancement of a dude because she did it as a person. That's a really stupid thing to say, especially because she really didn't die to advance the dude's character arc. It's pointless within the story itself, there to serve as cheap tragedy and nothing more. No, you're just upset about the fact a character you liked died in a scene you didn't like to a character you didn't like and instead of acknowledging that you're accusing me of being sexist and horribly misusing 'women in the fridge." I've written multiple posts explaining exactly why it fits thematically in the story and you just keep going "it's stupid! It's bad! She should get a happy ending!" And yes, I'm not being very nice to you, because instead of addressing my actual points you leapt to sexism accusations despite the fact I already addressed that point because you're mad your waifu got killed by someone you didn't like.
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May 26, 2016 18:31
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That's another part of the confused mess that I'm starting to think it is thematically. It, again, wants to be judged on its own merits, but at the same time recycle the familiar themes and events of Gundam.
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May 26, 2016 18:32
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muike posted:That's another part of the confused mess that I'm starting to think it is thematically. It, again, wants to be judged on its own merits, but at the same time recycle the familiar themes and events of Gundam. Unicorn absolutely doesn't want to be judged on its own merits. The entire plot relies on comparisons to previous Gundam shows. It's frankly incoherent without them. The repetition of themes in the show is a central idea to the point it's a plot point that Bright recognizes that Banagher is a Gundam Kid. (Something I really loathed because it makes gundam kids a textual thing in the universe.) Like it's an actual plot point that Bright Noah goes "man, I've seen teenagers hop into Gundams so often, I know how this poo poo works" which is just lol. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 18:38 on May 26, 2016 |
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May 26, 2016 18:33
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While I'm not a fan of bogging things down with canon, at the very least there are a few decades without war after Unicorn, which definitely beats having a ton of death and destruction every few years. Heck, in the present day a few decades without conflict would be a miracle.
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May 26, 2016 18:34
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ImpAtom posted:Unicorn absolutely doesn't want to be judged on its own merits. The entire plot relies on comparisons to previous Gundam shows. It's frankly incoherent without them. The repetition of themes in the show is a central idea to the point it's a plot point that Bright recognizes that Banagher is a Gundam Kid. (Something I really loathed because it makes gundam kids a textual thing in the universe.) That is probably a more accurate way of looking at it. And yeah lol "maybe gundams just choose kids. i don't know. newtypes. go do the thing"
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May 26, 2016 18:35
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muike posted:That is probably a more accurate way of looking at it. One of the funniest parts of Unicorn's slavish adherence to Gundam tropes is that Bright's plan for everything basically consists of running interference while hoping that the Newtype kid in the Gundam that he's never met or interacted with will resolve everything.
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May 26, 2016 18:40
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Kanos posted:One of the funniest parts of Unicorn's slavish adherence to Gundam tropes is that Bright's plan for everything basically consists of running interference while hoping that the Newtype kid in the Gundam that he's never met or interacted with will resolve everything. Yeah, Unicorn likes making subtext into text in a way that is really dumb. Like the idea behind Full Frontal is interesting. Char died and in dying he became a near-mythological figure, an effective saint to the Spacenoids who they can rally around and hold as their image. However in doing so they care more about the superficial image and how they can use that to push their own goals. A fake Char who is hollow and contains none of the original's ideals, but is merely twisting his image to justify their goals. And then they made that an *actual guy.* An actual guy who canonically is Char But Fake And Hollow.
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May 26, 2016 18:46
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As goofy as that scene is I've always liked how afterwards he makes a remark while looking at a photo of Amuro.
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May 26, 2016 18:47
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ImpAtom posted:No, you're just upset about the fact a character you liked died in a scene you didn't like to a character you didn't like and instead of acknowledging that you're accusing me of being sexist and horribly misusing 'women in the fridge." I've written multiple posts explaining exactly why it fits thematically in the story and you just keep going "it's stupid! It's bad! She should get a happy ending!" Wow, no. I didn't even mention sexism so much as bad writing, but there you go making it all about it. Maybe you are sexist and that's why you're being defensive about it despite no one mentioning it? I wouldn't know, since I don't know you in real life. I addressed your point like three times dude. You keep going over it, it's hard to miss. It's just a bad point. Nothing in your arguments justifies her dying or argues that her death wasn't pointless: you keep going back to how she was recognized as a person before her death but that was only part of her arc. And Riddhe's arc certainly didn't need her to die. It was contrived for cheap drama. It's blatant bad writing done to make people feel sad and to follow the Gundam tropes. The fact that you keep defending it is what's weird.
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May 26, 2016 18:47
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I was kind of on board with full frontal, especially since he has an actual understandable and reasonable plan. Until the Neo Zeong shows up. Then I just don't care anymore. And like are the Sleeves just a subset of Neo Zeon? Are there non-Sleeves Neo Zeon groups that we just don't see?
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May 26, 2016 18:49
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ImpAtom posted:Yeah, Unicorn likes making subtext into text in a way that is really dumb. That idea was also way better executed in Gaia Gear.
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May 26, 2016 18:50
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Fridging is inherently a term that brings up sexism. I dislike the way that term has been used over the years but heck, it's definitely linked in a way that can't be separated
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May 26, 2016 18:50
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MonsieurChoc posted:Wow, no. I didn't even mention sexism so much as bad writing, but there you go making it all about it. Maybe you are sexist and that's why you're being defensive about it despite no one mentioning it? I wouldn't know, since I don't know you in real life. No, her being recognized as a person is her entire arc. Her relationship with Zimmerman is part of that. The change from him being her "Master" to him being her father is part of her going from a Ple clone to a person. Marida's entire story is about her personhood, both how it was stripped from her by other people and how she regained it. I'm not sure what else you think her plot has to be honest. Also lol at a completely unironic "No, maybe you are the real sexist." Especially when you're trying to go "I didn't mention sexism" after evoking Women in the Fridge multiple times. muike posted:And like are the Sleeves just a subset of Neo Zeon? Are there non-Sleeves Neo Zeon groups that we just don't see? They're just remnants of Neo-Zeon. There are others (we see them in-series actually) but the Sleeves are the ones with backing.
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May 26, 2016 18:51
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ImpAtom posted:No, her being recognized as a person is her entire arc. Her relationship with Zimmerman is part of that. The change from him being her "Master" to him being her father is part of her going from a Ple clone to a person. Marida's entire story is about her personhood, both how it was stripped from her by other people and how she regained it. I'm not sure what else you think her plot has to be honest. It's a sexist trope, sure, but it's also a bad writing trope. Nowhere did I accuse you of sexism except half-assedly in that last post and that was more because you're being an internet rear end in a top hat than any attempt at diagnosing you over the internet. I over-reacted to you being a dick and I apologize. My argument is, and remains, that her death was pointless and stupid. It's a classic example of fridging, where a female character is sacrificed to facilitate the character development of a male character. The fact that the trope has been misused recently doesn't change the fact that it fits perfectly within the definition of the term. And all the effects her death has on the story could have easily been accomplished without it, and in fact would probably have been done better. You keep going back to accusing me of "being sad my waifu died" (which, wow, way to torpedo your own argument by making you look stupid there) but my problem isn't even with the fact that she died so much as it was terribly written and pointless. There are a thousand ways to have her die tragically without making it pointless and stupid, it just wasn't done in Unicorn. I still won't call you sexist. I wouldn't even call the Unicorn writers sexist so much as caught in a bubble of repeating tropes for no reason. I mean, the author of the Unicorn novels definitely has some sexist tendencies looking at his body of work, but even then I wouldn't call him a capital-S Sexist so much as say that he's got a few cultural assumptions he should discard.
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May 26, 2016 19:22
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MonsieurChoc posted:It's a sexist trope, sure, but it's also a bad writing trope. "Women in the Fridge" is bad because it involves the death of a female character to motivate a male character. It is an interesting thing to look at because of the disproportionate element of it in media and for how very frequently the deaths come at the cost of a character in favor of another character. Like the Bechdel Test the problem is that it has become a means to an end instead of part of an overall discussion. The point of it was to highlight how common it is and how frequently it involves demeaning or weakening a character in favor of another character and how that disproportionately favors women dying for men. It is not a magic button that means a story is bad or even that a story is sexist or badly written. It is a data point that is interesting to recognize but the point of bringing it up was to emphasize both that people tend towards it without thinking (because they're following things other media has done) and that it's disproportionately common. It is good for writers to avoid it and it's worth pointing out when it happens but using it as a bludgeon against a story defeats the point of recognizing it and using it as a universal 'this is bad" doesn't work either because it can be important or critical to a story to have a character die. Gundam trends towards having women die and there are reasons for that, some of which are legitimately kind of weird. Early Gundam especially puts women on a hell of a pedestal. Their deaths are supposed to be extra tragic for a variety of reasons revolving around motherhood, purity and femininity. This trend towards a whole lot of dead ladies and men who are shocked and horrified by their deaths because of what it means. As Gundam advanced it unfortunately became one of the Gundam Things where women died because women dying is tragic without even the putting-them-on-a-pedestal element that earlier Gundam had. The climax of this is Gundam Age where women die in droves to motivate guys because women dying is sad you guys and look how sad it is. But that doesn't inherently mean that, especially in Gundam, death shouldn't occur or that women should be immune to those. The tragic loss of life and the impact it has on others is an important part of theoretically anti-war stories and those stories (even fanciful ones like Gundam) rely on that to convey the ideas behind it. That inevitably does mean people have to die tragic, pointless and sad deaths. Gundam shouldn't lean so hard on ladies for this but it's also fair to say that it depends heavily on the Gundam show. Characters having tragic, unsatisfying and depressing deaths is important because Gundam wants you to think war sucks and it's extra-hard for Gundam because it also wants to sell you plastic robots that are totally awesome. (An inherent contradiction in the franchise.) MonsieurChoc posted:. And all the effects her death has on the story could have easily been accomplished without it, and in fact would probably have been done better. Not really, no. Part of the themes of Unicorn is the ongoing cycle of tragedy which bears more tragedy in response. The last few episodes basically never shut up about it. Without having that tragedy occur (or appear to occur as SRW does, both with Zimmerman faking it or with Marida surviving through plot magic in BX), you're not able to actually push a situation where someone actively rejects the continuing cycle of revenge and violence the way Zimmerman does. Nobody else in the story has the connections Marida does. They could rewrite the entire story to give someone else those connections but at that point you're still having a character effectively identical to Marida dying anyway. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 19:34 on May 26, 2016 |
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May 26, 2016 19:28
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ImpAtom posted:"Women in the Fridge" is bad because it involves the death of a female character to motivate a male character. It is an interesting thing to look at because of the disproportionate element of it in media and for how very frequently the deaths come at the cost of a character in favor of another character. Like the Bechdel Test the problem is that it has become a means to an end instead of part of an overall discussion. The point of it was to highlight how common it is and how frequently it involves demeaning or weakening a character in favor of another character and how that disproportionately favors women dying for men. A fair and well-written argument. I agree with everything you wrote in that post. I don't think it excuses Unicorn though. I keep thinking that Marida's death was badly written, but I think at this point we can just agree to disagree and stop bickering. Peace?
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May 26, 2016 19:33
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MonsieurChoc posted:It's a sexist trope, sure, but it's also a bad writing trope. Nowhere did I accuse you of sexism except half-assedly in that last post and that was more because you're being an internet rear end in a top hat than any attempt at diagnosing you over the internet. I over-reacted to you being a dick and I apologize. My argument is, and remains, that her death was pointless and stupid. It's a classic example of fridging, where a female character is sacrificed to facilitate the character development of a male character. The fact that the trope has been misused recently doesn't change the fact that it fits perfectly within the definition of the term. And all the effects her death has on the story could have easily been accomplished without it, and in fact would probably have been done better. Fridging is entirely a sexist trope, which is why it has a specific name and refers to women. Fridging exists as a term entirely as a criticism of sexist writing. The moment you start using the term, you're making a critique of a show from the point of view of sexism. I understand you're not meaning to be adversarial but I've read every one of your posts about this and they all boil down to "Marida was fridged! Pointless and stupid! Wasted character arc! Could have been done better!". People then reply explaining why her death wasn't pointless at all and how her character arc had come to an actual, final conclusion, to which you reply "Marida was fridged! Pointless and stupid! Wasted character arc! Could have been done better!". Marida's arc was about her transitioning from being a robot to being a human. She completed that arc the moment that she changed from calling Zinnerman "master" to calling him "father". Her death, in the material as written, directly forces Riddhe to snap the gently caress out of his funk and help Banagher, which ended up being absolutely pivotal to the resolution of the entire conflict. That's the very definition of not pointless. In an effort to steer the conversation in a direction that doesn't involve us shouting past each other for 10 posts before people get tired of it, how would you have done the final episode parts involving Marida/Riddhe? e: Whoa, I just refreshed before typing this and got beaten anyway.
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May 26, 2016 19:34
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Kanos posted:Fridging is entirely a sexist trope, which is why it has a specific name and refers to women. Fridging exists as a term entirely as a criticism of sexist writing. The moment you start using the term, you're making a critique of a show from the point of view of sexism. That's the part I don't get, I guess. Especially with the way the scene was done in the OVA. Her death wasn't necessary to snap Riddhe out of his funk (really wish I could find the scene on youtube to show it), and Riddhe wasn't even pivotal to the resolution of the conflict: Banagher saying "Even So" ended up being enough. ImpAtom posted:Not really, no. Part of the themes of Unicorn is the ongoing cycle of tragedy which bears more tragedy in response. The last few episodes basically never shut up about it. Without having that tragedy occur (or appear to occur as SRW does, both with Zimmerman faking it or with Marida surviving through plot magic in BX), you're not able to actually push a situation where someone actively rejects the continuing cycle of revenge and violence the way Zimmerman does. You already had that moment in the previous episode with the scene in the hangar between Marida and Zimmerman, though.
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May 26, 2016 19:39
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MonsieurChoc posted:That's the part I don't get, I guess. Especially with the way the scene was done in the OVA. Her death wasn't necessary to snap Riddhe out of his funk (really wish I could find the scene on youtube to show it), and Riddhe wasn't even pivotal to the resolution of the conflict: Banagher saying "Even So" ended up being enough. Without Riddhe (or technically without the Banshee but Riddhe having his personal evolution to being able to control the Banshee's psychoframe properly is part of that), they would have all gotten Colony Laser'd and even if you assumed Banagher could stop it with only his Psychoframe and the shields he'd then fly off into space as a crystal god because Riddhe isn't there to stop him. MonsieurChoc posted:You already had that moment in the previous episode with the scene in the hangar between Marida and Zimmerman, though. It isn't really quite the same I think. Maybe for the SRW example but the SRW example intentionally fudges things for obvious reasons,
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May 26, 2016 19:44
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MonsieurChoc posted:That's the part I don't get, I guess. Especially with the way the scene was done in the OVA. Her death wasn't necessary to snap Riddhe out of his funk (really wish I could find the scene on youtube to show it), and Riddhe wasn't even pivotal to the resolution of the conflict: Banagher saying "Even So" ended up being enough. Riddhe killing Marida was the moment that it finally hit home that his entire philosophy was wrong and when he finally internalized the reality that he was also a newtype despite hating and fearing newtypes. It was super pivotal. ImpAtom also already touched on it, but without Riddhe coming to help Banagher, the entire colony would have gotten eradicated by the colony laser during Mineva's speech and thus rendering the entire journey meaningless. Defeating Frontal was only part of the conflict resolution.
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May 26, 2016 20:03
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ImpAtom posted:Without Riddhe (or technically without the Banshee but Riddhe having his personal evolution to being able to control the Banshee's psychoframe properly is part of that), they would have all gotten Colony Laser'd and even if you assumed Banagher could stop it with only his Psychoframe and the shields he'd then fly off into space as a crystal god because Riddhe isn't there to stop him. Also, getting more people on-side is important because Newtype powers, in accordance with the franchise's themes, are about the supernatural ability to connect with and draw power from people. An individualist Newtype victory is a contradiction in terms.
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May 26, 2016 20:09
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Can we agree that something can be thematically appropriate while still being poorly executed? I find the concepts in Gundam fascinating but the writing and direction often have a hard time presenting them well.
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May 26, 2016 20:09
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Darth Walrus posted:We can at least all agree that while it's not perfect by any means, Alia in GBF gets the best Cyber-Newtype plot arc so far, right? Aila definitely has the best cyber-newtype plot in Gundam. I really like how the relationships between characters developed in GBF. Also all the background character cameos once the finals start. GBF is the best Gundam show to watch after Zeta because it is a complete palette cleanser. The GM Sniper K9 battle was the best too.
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May 27, 2016 00:23
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lmao @ people who are so intellectually starved for passable writing that they think anything Unicorn does is remotely defensible 70% of Gundam is trash, unicorn especially is masturbatory trash that exists purely as a blight on the IP, the vast majority of anime is trash, if you can't accept this then you are, 100% unironically, a loving simpleton (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 27, 2016 02:29
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you been drinkin too buddy
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May 27, 2016 02:31
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Unicorn sucks because it is Gundam 101. And Gundam 101 was fine in its first couple of run throughs. But it's 2016 and we still have to have ladies be crazy cyber newtypes who die for their man. We still have to force a new Char, despite the fact that the best ones in the franchise are Char or someone who appears to be Char but is actually 1000000 times more fabulous than Char. Unicorn's problems are the problems of the franchise, and I think it bothers me because there was plenty of room for the movies to do something different. P.S. I hate psycommu
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May 27, 2016 02:55
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| # ? May 11, 2024 18:27 |
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i am Gundam.
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May 27, 2016 02:57
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